Touhou Smash Bros Project (Development & info thread)

[Prime32]

-Shoot'em Up:  Kinda like multimen, except defeated enemies drop point and power pellets, and the player with highest score in time wins.

Sounds like a Coin Battle...

[Saijee]

Sorta, not really. In Coin battle you hit other players and they drop coins. In this game mode, enemies appear on the screen, and drop pellets after you shoot them to death.

[Romantique Tp]

As if anyone else could be our USC

Well, I've got your Magus Night remix here.  Complete with ZUNpets, a symphonic metal kind of motif, key changes, and a loop point halfway in.  YouTube uploader was being an ass, so I had to stick it up on Mediafire instead.  At least now you don't have to convert it
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/hvh6z3gz5axft87/Black_Magic.mp3

This is a little too harsh-sounding and it clips from start to finish... Your mix is almost flatlining.

http://i.imgur.com/kKeM4BI.png

IMO it's also a little too close to the original. To me it's closer to what you could call a cover than an arrange. (the later is the word you're looking for, a remix involves grabbing a finished recording and modifying it.)

Clipping is bad. When you render your music to a file, everything above 0dB is violently clipped off, causing an unnatural loss of dynamic range and some nasty sounding distortion. You wont hear this in your DAW because they all handle audio at a 32-bit resolution internally, which eliminates clipping for the most part. Never allow your music to go above 0dB before rendering, and always listen to the finished track on an audio player before uploading to make sure there's nothing wrong with it.

On the topic of dynamics, imagine your music as a triangle with your listener facing it at the top. The sounds at the bottom sound quieter, more distant. The sounds at the top are louder and feel closer. The bottom of the triangle is wider, so you are able to fit a lot of low volume sounds in there, while you can fit less and less sounds the higher (louder) they go inside this triangle. Thinking like this will not only help you keep clipping easy to manage, it will also give your music a deeper and more interesting soundstage. I listened to some of your other tracks and most of them sound kinda flat because all of the instruments are loud. In this mix in particular, there's not a lot going on so there's no need to make everything so loud. Even at a low volume most of the sounds would still be clearly audible.

As for the trumpet, if you don't own the real synth it's probably best to not use it at all. What you're using is a thin-sounding, expressionless, poorly recorded copy of the original. It doesn't matter how many effects you use, it just doesn't have the same power. Of course you're the one doing the music so you're free to use any sound you want regardless of what people say, but I think you would get better results if you used a different sound.

[UnendingEmpire]

stuff

I had a good thorough listen both in FL Studio before rendering and to the processed mp3 immediately after rendering, and again just now.  If anything had come out sounding not the way I'd intended, I would have certainly detected it in the pre-rendering stage and fixed it then.  I'll keep the triangle bit in mind for future reference, though.  I for one believe it came out just as I envisioned, but my ideal and yours may not necessarily be the same.  In either case, the input is appreciated

[CK Crash]

(sorry that this is getting offtopic)

If it sounds the way you intended, you really need to compare it side-by-side with a professionally mixed song, because even when you've got only one or two instruments playing it's deafening. I don't even really mind the instrumentation or other elements, but the way you've handled volume and clipping is just objectively wrong.

Stuff like Soundgoodizer and Maximus are common culprits for this type of problem, usually used as a band-aid fix for muddy sound. They're easily abused when you're thinking about individual instruments and not the overall mix.

Suggestions:
1) Use subtle panning and EQ to separate your instruments, before anything else.
2) Prioritize which ones need to stand out the most, instead of making everything louder.
3) When a new instrument comes in, compensate by reducing volume elsewhere (moreso on background instruments than the lead).
4) You only need a single Maximus on the master mixing channel most of the time. Using it on individual instruments is unnecessary. Clear Master preset with added stereo on mids and reduce stereo on lows is a good starting point. Soundgoodizer is just a Maximus preset, and should be avoided to be honest.

EDIT:
My apologies if I insulted or discouraged you with this post. My criticism is strictly focused on the volume issue, and I actually like the song aside from that.

About comparing to a professional mix:  I have no expectation that anyone here be as good as a professional; that would be highly unfair. However, certain problems like volume are simply hard to show without a reference point.

When I use "objectively wrong", I'm not referring to a matter of taste or even saying the song is bad (and I'm certainly not an authority on good composition). What I'm saying is  I believe that the volume is a technical error. It's like if you drew a character holding a sword the wrong way. You might be happy with the artwork regardless if it's right or wrong. You might want to sacrifice realism for style. You might be purposely drawing a character as inept with a sword. However, not knowing this, I'll make the assumption that you would have drawn the character in a proper stance but didn't know better. In this case, I think you were aiming for loud, but overshot into needlessly loud.

Regardless, as Saijee stated, you are your own boss. I gave some unnecessarily harsh constructive criticism, and it's up to you whether you value that criticism and think that the changes would help make the song something you enjoy better.

[UnendingEmpire]

1) Use subtle panning and EQ to separate your instruments, before anything else.
2) Prioritize which ones need to stand out the most, instead of making everything louder.
3) When a new instrument comes in, compensate by reducing volume elsewhere (moreso on background instruments than the lead).
4) You only need a single Maximus on the master mixing channel most of the time. Using it on individual instruments is unnecessary. Clear Master preset with added stereo on mids and reduce stereo on lows is a good starting point. Soundgoodizer is just a Maximus preset, and should be avoided to be honest.

4 I follow faithfully (the single Maximus part) but I'm still learning how some of the plugins work, Maximus itself being among them.
1 I often do, but I haven't done any music in a while so it must've slipped my mind
I'll keep 2 and 3 in mind for future works (not among them is the track that's been rendering pretty much all day)

Keep in mind that there are 7-billion humans on the planet; writing a song or remix/arrange/cover/whatever that satisfies all of them would be impossible.  Also keep in mind that, as I said, I'm still a bit rusty from not having done any music in a while, so of course the small things that make big differences will probably be forgetfully neglected.  I'm also far from a professional, so comparing anything of mine with a professionally-mixed song would most likely fall a bit short of fair.  Like comparing an average gamer with an MLG player.

[Saijee]

It's like page 5 all over again.

There is literally no reasons to compare anything about this project to professional works I'm sure that UnendingEmpire just wants his right to celibate Touhou as much as any other fan, so let him act on his passions.

As I said in the video, since I'm nobody's boss and I don't want to pretend to be, I feel that there should be no pressure to conform to anyone's disappointment/satisfaction other than your own. Do things the way they make you happy.

If anyone has a problem with the way his music sounds, there will probably be a ton of other Marisa tracks that will randomly play in the same context like in normal smash, If you take issue with his composition, then you could set it off, but the chances are, someone else will be quite fond of his work. So let him do things how he wants to for those hypothetical future players.

If you still feel so compelled to remark your lack of appreciation for his work, and must criticize: three things:
1) Say it nicely!
2) Make sure it is constructive criticism!
3) Bring it up as a friendly suggestion and not a condescending command.

[UnendingEmpire]

apology

Oh, there's no need to apologize ^_^; I've dealt with far worse criticism before, and to see that your only issue was with the volume means I can heartily reply with "I could have a quieter version up in mere minutes if you'd like." 

Speaking of my compositions, though, after literally a day's worth of rendering, I've brought another one for you, Saijee.  This one did come out deafeningly loud at first (moreso than the Magus Night one; I couldn't even bear it at its original volume) so I toned down the volume some.  Since Pandemonium was confirmed as a stage, figured I'd go for Doll of Misery.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/r0w4r60k3voqp71/Makai+Symphony.mp3

So, how bout this new site layout? :O

[CK Crash]

Speaking of my compositions, though, after literally a day's worth of rendering, I've brought another one for you, Saijee.  This one did come out deafeningly loud at first (moreso than the Magus Night one; I couldn't even bear it at its original volume) so I toned down the volume some.  Since Pandemonium was confirmed as a stage, figured I'd go for Doll of Misery.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/r0w4r60k3voqp71/Makai+Symphony.mp3

A huge step forward from the last song IMO. Doll of Misery is a perfect choice for this kind of arrange, and it would really fit a Pandemonium stage. The high frequencies on the organ could be made softer as they overshadow the other instruments, but the idea is solid. The mix of the strings and choir is really excellent as well.

Anyways, I just finished a song as well, Misty Lake Medley.  The accordion is a bit cliche and it barely qualifies as a "medley", but it should work well for a lively outdoor stage :V

Next is a Reimu song...

[Saijee]

Sounds pretty good!

I'm actually working on Reimu's model right now. I also gave Sakuya a few cards. What are important item details for Reimu?

All I can think of atm are: Her gohei, ofuda and yin-yang orbs.

[Prime32]

You mean items used in her attacks, or items that can be picked up? If the first then there's her Persuasion Needle (probably works best like this), her giant square ofuda and her barriers; the last two could potentially use the same texture with different in-engine tints.

[Saijee]

Thanks for reminding me about those.

Here's Reimu for you:


Sorry for the lack of actual game dev and logs, I'll be finished with midterns on tuesday.

[Colticide]

And one of the two characters I'm anticipating.

[Magio]

This seems really interesting~. I'm looking forwardto see it complete.

[UnendingEmpire]

It's only about 40% done as of yet, but here's a Ten Desires medley-in-progress.  Currently features Shoutoku Legend ~ True Administrator and Legend of the Great Gods, but I plan to also add Rigid Paradise and maybe The Lost Emotion, then have it all loop back round to Shoutoku Legend.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/oy0bq59768p3idb/Ten+Desires+%28preview%29.mp3

[Saijee]

Here is an alt pallet for, it's more close to her well known traditional outfit:


I would however like to also give her an alt costume that is actually modeled after an official outfit of hers.

[Yookie]

You could go with one of her PC98 outfits. Complete with ...Mmpfft~ Purple Hair. (hehe)
Or go really obscure and give her one of the outfits she's wearing in the endings of the PC98 games. :V

[Sagus]

A traditional miko outfit could also be a good alt. costume. Although that's pretty much what her PC-98 garb is, I suppose.

[CK Crash]

formally requesting a zombie reimu costume

[UnendingEmpire]

formally requesting a zombie reimu costume

Seconding this movement.

[Saijee]

Remember when I said that I could have unlimted alts if I wanted?....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIarFAoIpCM

[Leon゠Helsing]

You know, you might as well give us a color edit mode so we can run with it. :V

[UnendingEmpire]

I also second a color edit mode.  If such a thing is possible.

Be it possible or not, I finished up the Ten Desires medley I was planning to give you.  Didn't get to add Old Yuanxen or The Lost Emotion like I'd initially wanted to, but that's beside the point.

Sadly, due to time constraints, I won't be able to start rendering the mp3 file until tomorrow.  But I can tell you it totals in at 62 patterns (only because I started doing lots of multi-instrument patterns near the end for sanity's sake), 12 instruments (all but two of which appear in the preview a little higher up on this page), and about 6 and a half minutes before hitting the loop point.  All of these are personal new records.

[Saijee]

Cool as it may sound, it is not within my current skill level to do that... Though the next Touhou fan game that we have planned will definitely have it.

[Saijee]

CK Crash, can I post your Misty Lake on today's dev log?

[CK Crash]

You can use my songs for whatever you'd like, as long as you don't claim that you made them. I did a slight volume tweak, so I'll link that revision here in a sec.

EDIT:
Misty Lake Medley

[Colticide]

OK what the Title for the game again? I need for my terrible idea I'm working on.

[Saijee]

Oh yea mean *give credit* yea, I'll do that, just like with Komeiji and Sheet Ghost:

I was thinking that when a match starts a foot note tells you the title of the song and the arranger of the composition.


-

The title is "Touhou Super Smash Battles"

[Saijee]

Taunts are in TSSB!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ111hBbdKs

[UnendingEmpire]

Got another song for ya, Saijee.  This thing was a beast to proofread.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/jpm8zg1xcq36ddh/Triple+Taoism.mp3