Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Rika and Nitori's Garage Experiments => Topic started by: Saijee on June 05, 2014, 01:52:41 AM
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Hey I was once here before stating I had plans to make a Free Roam Zelda like Touhou game... Now I didn't exactly ever go through with that because I became a lot more busy with contests, but at least I made a pretty cool game, Glass Wing : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leDDN_fYwCI
But anyway, what I do still have from said idea of a touhou fan game is the 3D models of a bunch of Touhou characters. Examples:
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/223/5/5/sakuya_s_idle_stance_rendered_out_by_saijeehiguchi-d7upyrc.png)
Now then, that brings me back to the title of this topic, that I plan to make a Touhou smash-bros style fighting game. And this time I actually will follow through with it. It won't come with all the Cool RPG things like story and dialogue, only The Touhou characters and Touhou themed stages, and Touhou music themes in 4 player battle action.
Also (in case you are wondering) I still do intend to make a Zelda OoT ish RPG that reimagines Gensokyo, but later.
So I'm asking on this topic, what you guys would want to see in this game. What characters would you like? Ideas for their movesets. What stages? Ideas for stage hazards pertaining to them. Stuff like that.
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Needs obligatory Captain Falcon-style Mokou. And tanky-ass Yoshika. And Miko, of course, can't have a fighting game without Miko.
For stages, a good hazard for a Bhava-Agra stage could be keystones randomly falling from above now and then? If you don't make her playable, Flandre could make both a hilarious and terrifying one-hit KO hazard for a Scarlet Devil Mansion stage too. For a few other stage ideas:
Dream Palace Mausoleum. Possible hazard could be occasional Buddhist air raids with Murasa/Ichirin (whoever you don't make playable, if either) dropping anchors/brofists along the stage that players must dodge
Hakurei Shrine. Probable hazard is the shrine collapsing on the center of the stage now and then, just to reconstruct itself later (think Luigi's Mansion in Brawl)
Hell of Blazing Fires. This would pretty much be the equivalent to SSB series Brinstar
Makai. This could be cool, if the miasma of Makai was applied as slowly dealing damage to all players over time.
Inside the Gap. This could be like the Final Destination stage?
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Huh, I was thinking about how this kind of thing would work pretty recently actually. For stages I vote for Soku's Underground Geyser Center/Nuclear Furnace - you can have occasional lava pillars that burst through the grille, or send everyone blasting upwards like in the last stage of Sanae vs. Suwako (before being gapped back to ground level). As for movesets...
Reimu
Slightly below-average weight, but can float like Peach and has multiple recovery options. Most of her attacks have low damage and pathetic knockback, but she can stay in the ring long enough to wear enemies down. Her Smash attacks have long animations which do not grant super armor, meaning she's left wide open if she fails to connect (in the words of Kasen, Reimu always screws up when she gets cocky).
Aerials
- Neutral - Yin-Yang Orbs: Thrusts her palms outwards in a 大 stance and spins Yin-Yang Orbs around her to attack both left and right.
- Side:
- Up - Ascension Kick: Sends her upwards and a bit forwards, meaning it can be used as a recovery move. Has unusually high knockback for a Reimu move, but can be punished if used incorrectly.
- Down: DIVE KICK! Looks like Dimensional Rift from SWR minus the teleporting.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Yin-Yang Sanctifier Orb: Creates a giant orb of light in her palm that traps enemies in place for a moment, then blasts them away. Might also work as a Forward throw, I dunno.
- Down - Evil-Sealing Circle: Reimu squats and twists her arm back, holding an ofuda. When the attack completes she slams it downwards and holds it for 1 or 2 seconds, damaging any nearby enemies in contact with the ground.
- Up - Fantasy Seal: Creates orbs of light around Reimu that home in on enemies and explode. Can pass through platforms but not solid walls, and will detonate automatically after a short distance. While they allow Reimu to attack from unusual angles, they're easy to dodge and leave her completely helpless for a long time.
Specials
- Neutral - Homing Amulet: Shoots three low-damage projectiles with homing properties. If the button is held down she'll charge up a Youkai Buster, which has a large hitbox and is decently powerful but lacks homing.
- Side - Duplex Barrier: Creates a short-lived barrier that reflects some attacks, similar to Mario's Cape.
- Up - Floating Wall Jump: Creates a barrier beneath her feet and kicks off it. The direction of the jump can be altered by holding a direction during its startup.
- Down - Instant Dimensional Rift: Parry move similar to Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape, which causes her to teleport behind an enemy and attack them.
- Final Smash - Fantasy Nature: Based on the Imperishable Night version, meaning it's essentially Sonic's Final Smash with a slower movement speed.
Throws
- Forward:
- Reverse - Persuasion Needle: Tosses the enemy backwards, then summons Yin-Yang Orbs to barrage them with Persuasion Needles at point-blank range.
- Up - Sky-Conqering Wind God Kick: Unleashes a chain of Ascension Kicks.
- Down:
I've got more, but I wanted to keep the wall-of-text levels down. :V
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I posted this on smashboards back in 2011, but my idea didn't get approved. Hopefully it will here.
The character I want is Nue. Here are her smash attacks:
(http://i.imgur.com/zjhHqO2.png)
EXPLANATION
Neutral Smash: Nue fires a single red ufo that moves forward in a helical/wavy pattern, similar to the "wave beam" from Super Metroid.
Side Smash: Nue fires two green ufos, which travel a short distance forward then arc behind her, one slightly above and one below, similar to "spinning blade" from Mega Man x3.
Down Smash: Nue creates a blue ufo barrier composed of three ufos that encircles her and keeps protecting from the enemies and from projectiles for a short duration. Afterwards, the 3 ufos returns to her. It's not possible to use it frequently, though. After being used once, she has to wait for a bit in order to create another barrier, preventing spam. (the shield works like plant barrier from Mega Man 6)
Up Smash: Nue basically does the same thing as Sheik's vanish. The difference is that the smoke is very black and it's slightly bigger than Sheik's, and she can travel the same distance as Zelda's Farore Wind.
Final Smash: Nue fires the 4 symbols of the Playstation joystick (triangle, square, circle and cross). The symbols are big and travel in a circling pattern similar to Magikoopa's spell on Super Mario World. The attack travels slowly and once it hits a character, it traps him/her causing massive damage, similar to Ho-Oh's sacred fire. Any other character that comes in contact with the attack will keep taking damage while trapped and unable to escape.
Not really sure what she would do for normal attacks, but I guess she'd use her trident a lot, and maybe her snake as a whip. And yes, those sprites are edited from New Super Marisa Land. :V
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@ UnendingEmpire I can see those working. Though I had another idea for Blazing Hell:
I was thinking of a mechanically different stage then the normal Smash Bros Arena: It would be in the shape of an inescapable half circle with a big sun above in the middle. And you loose a stock if you touch it.
@Prime32 Oh go on and write your walls of text, more detail is better. and everyone please do tell your ideas for move sets!
by the way, I was thinking of the incorporation of some elements that are not actually part of Smash bros to really let the touhou spin take its path: Spell cards.
Remember how in Smash Bros you can charge up your smash attacks, but there is really never any reason to do it? Well I'm thinking that in this game, a fully charged smash is a spell card. It'll be used to give this game it's bullet hell antics.
Also final Smash's will work differently than in SSBB, the way it works is that you can do it anytime you want, but you can only do it once per game. And there are 3 kinds of final smashes and that depends on your character.
1) Ones that make you invincible, These are weak ones.
2) Ones that make you hurt able but with super armor These are strong ones.
3) Ones that offer no protection and will end if you are interrupted. These are very strong ones.
Also some times characters will have more than 4 special moves, the way that works is that sometimes the attack will be different depending on if they are in the air or on the ground. I was thinking, for example, That Sakuya's Down B on the ground would be counter, but in the air it would be card teleport.
Another thing to note is that Apart from fully charged smash attacks, final smashes, special moves, and some throws, all attacks will be melee attacks.
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This project looks like it has a lot of potential!
If you decide to make Flandre playable, then I have some ideas for her.
Smashes
Side Smash- Flandre does a big hit with her hands similar to Remilias 6A from Soku.
Side Smash Full Charge(L?vateinn) - Flandre takes out L?vateinn and swings it in front of her doing massive damage to anyone in the way.
Up Smash- Flandre does an uppercut to send them flying into the air.
Up Smash Full Charge(Kagome-Kagome) -Flandre does the same uppercut, but she then traps them and fires bullets at the trapped opponent
Down Smash- Flandre slashes at the ground on both sides of her.
Down Smash Full Charge(Starbow Break)-Flandre fires out 8 different colered lasers on each side of her, 4 on the right and 4 on the left. They travel at different angles.
The first two travel straight.
The next two travel at a 25 degree angle.
The next two at a 50 degree angle.
The last two at a 75 degree angle.
Final Smash(And Then Will There Be None?)- Flandre charges up for a couple of seconds. When fully charged, she will release a short range circle that freezes whoever gets caught in it. Flandre then disappears and starts hitting everyone that got caught with a lot of attacks. Flandre then Reappears and causes an explosion inside the field making everyone inside it go flying. This Final Smash would do massive damage, but it doesn't hit anyone outside of the field and you can interrupt Flandre when she is charging by hitting her enough.
Specials
Neutral-
Side-
Up-Flandre spins in a circle with the L?vateinn while heading upwards.
Down-
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Remember how in Smash Bros you can charge up your smash attacks, but there is really never any reason to do it?
There... isn't? :wat: Maybe it's a bad idea when you're playing against pros or something, but it's a pretty significant damage boost and helps with timing.
Also final Smash's will work differently than in SSBB, the way it works is that you can do it anytime you want, but you can only do it once per game.
Why wouldn't everyone just use them right away? :wat:
And there are 3 kinds of final smashes and that depends on your character.
I worry that this makes things too complicated. A big part of the Smash Bros. feel is its accessibility, but here it would take a long time just to figure out what all your character's moves are.
Also some times characters will have more than 4 special moves, the way that works is that sometimes the attack will be different depending on if they are in the air or on the ground. I was thinking, for example, That Sakuya's Down B on the ground would be counter, but in the air it would be card teleport.
Likewise I'd advise against changing things too much - at least make it look like the same move being used in different ways, like how Thunderbolt and Falcon Kick have different properties in the air (in Sakuya's case it's fine... as long her counter involves teleportation).
@Prime32 Oh go on and write your walls of text, more detail is better. and everyone please do tell your ideas for move sets!
Have another character then:
Remilia
In some ways Remilia is reminiscent of Captain Falcon - fast and powerful, but anything stronger than a tilt attack is highly telegraphed and/or leaves her vulnerable afterwards. This weakness is magnified, however, by her low weight. Her roll/sidestep animations cause her to move a surprising distance but have long cooldowns; her air dodge (which turns her into a bat) lacks these properties and lasts longer than average. Remilia can wall jump and is also the only character who can wall cling - besides the normal methods her ranged grab and Up Special can be used to start a cling. The Scarlet Devil Mansion stage comes with plenty of vertical surfaces to make the most of this ability.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Remilia Stretch: FALCON... SWIPE! Insane knockback and decent damage.
- Up - Demon Lord Cradle: Remilia spins while launching herself upwards at a slight forward angle. Range is much shorter compared to the SWR move.
- Down - Miserable Fate: Chains burst from the ground, continuously damaging nearby enemies. Not that strong for a smash attack, but has a large hitbox. The longer the attack is charged for, the longer the chains last.
Specials
- Neutral - Servant Flier: Fires a slow-moving energy projectile shaped like a bat, or up to three bats if fully charged (though due to knockback it's difficult to hit the same target with multiple bats). If used in midair becomes Stigmatizer, which hurls an energy cross diagonally down and cannot be charged.
- Side - Vampire Claw: Similar to Marth's Dancing Blade.
- Up - Demon Lord Arrow: Similar to Fox+Falco's Up Specials, but does not inflict collision damage when charging. If it collides with a wall or ceiling then Remilia will start wall clinging. This move can be used while already wall clinging, in which case its startup animation is much faster.
- Down - Demon Lord Walk: Remilia pounces forward, similar to Yoshi's and Bowser's Down Specials. Fast startup, long cooldown. If used in midair she'll fly straight down similar to Ceiling Fear, with a longer startup but creating a shockwave on landing. Can also be used while wall clinging, in which case it has the startup and shockwave of the aerial version but the trajectory of the ground version.
- Final Smash - Red the Nightless Castle: Creates a vertical pillar of light centred on Remilia. Other options would include
Light Arrow Spear the Gungnir or even Millennium Vampire (grab an opponent and deal massive damage while healing Remilia back to full health).
Throws
- Grab - Chain Gang: Shoots out an energy chain with decent reach. Can be used to wall cling.
- Pummel - Vampire Kiss: Remilia bites her opponent. Unusually powerful for a pummel, and causes her to regain health.
- Forward:
- Reverse - Trickster Devil: Teleports behind the opponent and slashes them backwards.
- Up - Rocket Kick Upper: Kicks a spear of energy that launches enemies diagonally.
- Down:
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Sakuya
Combos, combos, combos. Sakuya is pretty much Sheik, but with a greater emphasis on ranged attacks and an extremely strange grab mechanic. All of her knife attacks move at different speeds, which aids in trapping enemies.
Aerials
- Up - Close-up Magic: Creates two spinning knives to the left and right while moving slightly upwards.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Inscribe Red Soul: A flurry of slashes with very long reach.
- Up - Propelling Silver: Spins knives around her, inflicting damage to nearby enemies.
- Down - Sense of Thrown Edge: Sakuya crouches; more and more knives materialise around her as long as the attack button is held, and shoot forwards when the button is released. Taking damage destroys the knives.
Specials
- Neutral: Throws three knives in a narrow spread. Can be charged to increase speed and damage.
- Side - Square Ricochet: Throws a single knife that can ricochet off walls twice, each time giving it increased knockback but reduced damage. Aimable.
- Up - Misdirection: Throws a knife upwards, which spins in place for a moment then homes in on the nearest enemy.
- Down - Vanishing Everything: What Saijee said.
- Final Smash - Private Square: Stops time for the entire stage. Sakuya's attacks become "sticky" in this state, only inflicting damage/knockback when the Final Smash ends. Knives and thrown items in particular will freeze in place in front of targets. Sakuya cannot grab enemies while time is frozen.
Throws
- Grab - Luna Dial: Throws her stopwatch forward. If an enemy is within range it will become frozen in time; Sakuya will then move to float beside them and perform a Dio pose. Both combatants are unaffected by gravity while the grab lasts, and it's the only grab that can be used in midair.
- Pummel: A knife appears in a random position near the target and fires itself at them.
- Forward/Reverse - Killing Doll: Knives materialise around Sakuya and bombard the opponent, knocking them sideways.
- Up - Silver Acute 360: Target becomes surrounded by knives, which fire inwards as the timestop ends. Upwards knockback.
- Down - C. Ricochet: An intangible knife flies around the screen, before striking the target from above.
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Just to clear up stuffs:
There... isn't? :wat: Maybe it's a bad idea when you're playing against pros or something, but it's a pretty significant damage boost and helps with timing.
In the real games, yes charging up a smash can result in a big difference, if it lands, but hardly ever is it really worth going all the way, as your chances are of landing a hit are much greater if you time your release of the A button if you get a clear shot.
Why wouldn't everyone just use them right away? :wat:
Because they won't be very effective at killing at low damage. I'm thinking that in general these FiS attacks will work much more similar to actual SWR spell cards than SSBM FiS attacks. That is to say the best way to use them is when the best situation appears.
I worry that this makes things too complicated. A big part of the Smash Bros. feel is its accessibility, but here it would take a long time just to figure out what all your character's moves are.
Maybe, it's actually not all that much different from SSBM in this regard, it's not like all characters have 3 FiS attacks.
Likewise I'd advise against changing things too much - at least make it look like the same move being used in different ways, like how Thunderbolt and Falcon Kick have different properties in the air (in Sakuya's case it's fine... as long her counter involves teleportation).
Have you played the Brawl Hack, Project M? They make it work for the few characters they have it in effect for:
Charizards Down B is a HUGE jump to the sky, OR a quick way into glide mode.
ROB's Side B is that weird spinning attack OR a quick air boost in perfect horizontal movement.
Though do remember, I am not going to go crazy with this, I'm not going to give everybody 8 special moves or anything like that, it's just that sometimes a character will have a command that does a different thing on the ground or in the air.
Also I like the ideas all y'all are putting out for stuffs, keep it up. Though I feel inclined to not participate in the actual discussion regarding my opinions on your ideas as I feel it would influence the kind of comments that get made.
You could say, in that regard, that I'm treating this kinda like a survey, and popular ideas are likely to affect my decision on the way things turn out.
And don't be afraid to put out an unpopular idea out there if you think it'd be interesting, becaues I might just put it in there because I though it looked cool when I imagined it.
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I made a large list of SSB movesets for the girls out of boredom, but it's not finished yet. Hope you don't mind me posting it here...
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/538979/Touhou-SSB-rtf.html
And stages (incomplete as well):
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/538971/SSB-Touhou-stages-zip.html
Thoughts?
EDIT: Moveset file updated slightly.
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I've been playing around with the idea of a Smash Bros. Touhou game for some time lately.
The roster I had consisted of Reimu, Marisa, Cirno, Meiling, Sakuya, Youmu, Mystia, Reisen, Nitori, Sanae, Yuugi and Orin.
Stats-
Lightweights: Cirno, Youmu, Mystia, Orin (cat form)
Midlightweights: Youmu, Reisen, Orin ("human" form)
Midweights: Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Sanae
Midheavyweight: Meiling
Heavyweights: Yuugi, Nitori
As for movesets, I haven't been able to come up with one for all of them. So I'll just detail what I have in terms of general information.
Reimu
Entrance: Flies onto the stage, pulling out her gohei from inside her sleeve.
Icon: Yin-yang Orb
Neutral Special: Youkai Buster
-A charge move that allows Reimu to fire a flurry of glowing purple seals. Allow the move to charge and Reimu can fire more seals at once.
Side Special: Yin-Yang Orb
-Reimu pulls out a Yin-Yang Orb and bats it with her gohei. When the orb hits an opponent, it will fall to the ground. Using this move again near the fallen orb will allow Reimu to bat it again. After a while, the orb will vanish.
Up Special: Ascension Kick
-A double flip kick that carries Reimu into the sky. The second hit is slightly stronger than the first if it connects to a foe.
Down Special: Consecration Talisman
-Reimu slaps down a seal below her. It becomes an indiscriminate trap, causing small damage to anyone who steps onto it with a small burst; even Reimu herself.
Marisa
Entrance: Flies in on her broom.
Icon: A witch's cap
Neutral Special: Luminary Shot
-Marisa fires star shaped bullets from her finger. This move can be charged for a rapid fire attack.
Side Special: Witch Leyline
-Marisa mounts her broom and charges the foe with a powerful rush. If it land successfully, this move can strike the opponent multiple times at once.
Up Special: Rising Sweep
-A recovery move where Marisa jumps, using her broom to perform a rising slash.
Down Special: Witching Blast
-Marisa handles her broom like a rifle and charges magic power at the tip. At the end of this charge, a magic missile is shot. The missile has decent range but fizzes out if it travels too far. The more it is allowed to charge, the longer it will last when shot.
Cirno
Entrance: Pops out of a snowman
Icon: Snowflake
Neutral Special: Cold Breath
-A simple move where Cirno breathes ice. The longer this is sustained, the weaker it becomes.
Side Special: Fairy Spin
-Cirno performs a spinning move that is able to trap foes for multiple hits.
Up Special: Fairy Upper
-A familiar yet icy uppercut attack (simply put, this is Cirno's version of a Shoryuken).
Down Special: Freeze Touch Me
-Cirno briefly surrounds herself with cold air to fend off direct attacks as well as projectiles. The attack causes some damage when performed and the ice left behind causes residual damage for a short while.
Meiling
Entrance: Appears sitting on a wooden chair, with her eyes closed; quickly gets up and assumes a battle ready pose.
Icon: A styled dragon
Neutral Special: Dragon Punch
-Meiling's fist glows with what appears to be blue flames as she unleashes a powerful punch. Strong but slow to start.
Side Special: Dragon Kick
-A flying kick that cloaks Meiling with chi.
Up Special: Colorful Dance
-A devastating recovery move where Meiling performs a spinning jump, surrounded by a whirlpool of rainbow colored chi. If anyone is caught, she will finish the jump with an uppercut.
Down Special: Tiger Energy
-Meiling shortly meditates to up her performance. She will glow with a faint yellowish-green aura once this move is successful; during this period, all of her attacks will receive a boost in power.
Youmu*
Entrance: Runs into battle and unsheathes a random sword.
Icon: Roukanken and Hakurouken
*While I have not been able to decide on what to do for a moveset, I did think of Youmu's gameplay being centered around her use of either Roukanken or Hakurouken. Youmu's plays differently depending on which blade she is using. When using Roukanken, she is slightly slower, but her attacks are more powerful.. When using Hakurouken, she is faster but her attacks are slightly weaker. This also works in tandem with her Down Special move, Quick Draw, which utilizes a sword meter for the blade she isn't using. This meter fills over time as she battles. Once Youmu uses Quick Draw, not only can she swiftly exchange weapons, but she will also perform a damaging flourish if the meter is completely full.
Nitori
Entrance: Hovers to the ground with a set of propellers sticking out from her large backpack. When she lands the propeller retract into her bag.
Icon: A wrench
Neutral Special: Kappa Blaster
-Nitori whips out a special gun that shoots blue lasers. The faster the attack button is pressed, the more shots you can fire in succession.
Side Special: Junk Toss
-Nitori tosses out random junk items that cause varying amounts of damage. These items include (from weakest to strongest) a water balloon, a gear, a wrench, a soda can, a small robotic kappa, a hammer and a bomb
Up Special: Flying Kappa
-Propellers spout out from Nitori's backpack to help her fly. When using this move, she is able to hover for a short while and slowly descend.
Down Special: Optical Camo
-A counter move where Nitori will shortly activate a device to flicker out from sight. Any attack made on her during that moment will fail and Nitori will deal a sucker punch in retaliation.
Orin
Entrance: Jump onto the field in cat form, then changes to her "human" form. A soul soon accompanies her.
Icon: Skull
Neutral Special: Soul Shoot
-Orin will grab the soul that follows her and chuck it. Like other moves, this can be charged to deal slightly more damage. When thrown, the soul will quickly fly back to Orin's side.
Side Special: Blazing Wheel
-Orin curls herself into a ball and charges forward engulfed in flames.
Up Special: Cat's Walk
-Orin will pause in the air for a moment and rush in a guide direction. If she makes contact with a foe, she will pounce and cling onto them and bounce off.
Down Special: Transform
-Orin transforms into a cat. Her cat form is lighter and easier to KO, but she moves faster. The cat form can use the same special moves that Orin can in her "human" form, but they are slightly weaker.
For the moment, that is all I have. A few characters I have no completed movesets for so I have left them out (with the exception of Youmu, as she had a unique mechanic that I thought I should explain). The characters also had moves called Final Words, same as Final Smashes. Each and every one of them are custom attacks. Some of them are as follows:
Reimu
Phantasm Orb- Reimu charges up spiritual energy and releases an immense glowing yin-yang orb above her head. The orb automatically fires bullets around itself. You can press and hold the attack button to allow the orb to charge energy and release a more powerful spray of bullets.
Marisa
Astral Dragon- Marisa takes flight on her broom and zips off the stage, only to rush through engulfed by a huge mass of light energy in the shape of a dragon. As Marisa blasts through, you can control the angle that she flies in. Areas that she hit will be engulfed in white flames.
Cirno
Perfect Winter- Cirno assumes a pose and points her finger skyward as bullets in the shape of snowflakes rain down upon the arena causing great damage. They have a 30% chance of freezing anyone they hit.
Meiling
Hidden Lotus Dragon Technique- An accuracy move where Meiling shoots an intimidating glare. If she catches someone in her sight, they will be stunned as she charges up fiery chi and hits the victim with a rushing straight punch that has a high chance of a one-hit-KO.
Reisen
Lunatic Cannon- When activated, Reisen will equip a futuristic cannon gun, from which she fires a massive blast of red energy that can blow opponents off the screen.
Orin
Ghost City- With a meow, Orin will cause a graveyard to appear on the stage, from which a myriad of spirits will materialize. They will begin to attack the other combatants by ramming into them. The spirits can be fended off with a few powerful attacks, though.
Nitori
Mecha Kappa Kappa Onslaught- Nitori jets off and appears in a gigantic kappa robot equipped with an arsenal of different attacks. It will only stay around for a maximum of twenty seconds before it shuts down.
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These are really old, but here are some old Smash Touhou idea threads. Characters, items, stages, general categorization, all sorts of stuff. See if you can find any inspiration here.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14502.msg958499.html
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6865.msg409341.html
I posted a lot in one of them, but that was a long time ago. No recollection if they're actually good :V
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Marisa
Danmaku's all about power! Marisa's moves are flashy, with high knockback but relatively low damage. Fitting her enthusiastic approach they tend to have fast startup times but long cooldowns, and thanks to the broom her melee has decent reach.
Standard
Aerials
- Forward:
- Reverse - Sweep Aside: Marisa holds out her broom and spins like a top. If you hold a direction then she will float in that direction.
- Up:
- Down - Bosky Sweeper: Similar to R.O.B.'s Down Aerial. Creates a downwards blast from her broom that propels her slightly upwards.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Luminous Strike: Shoots a powerful energy projectile from her broom.
- Up - Gravity Beat: Marisa stole this move from Snake. :o
- Down - Orreries Sun: Multicolored orbs spin around Marisa for about 2 seconds, damaging enemies.
Specials
- Neutral - Meteoric Debris: Shoots a star-shaped projectile in a straight line. If the button is held then she will fire continuously. I'd say Narrow Spark, but that could be hard to balance.
- Side - Witch Leyline: One of those "charge up and ram" attacks like Skull Bash, Green Missile and Quick Draw, but can be aimed slightly up or down. Charging in midair will slow her fall speed.
- Up - Miasma Sweep: Marisa is stealing moves from Mario now. :o
- Down - Grand Stardust: An explosive flask that works like Ness's PK Fire; sends enemies flying straight upwards. Alternately Magical Reusable Bomb, which is more like Link's Bomb, but that probably works better as an item anyone can use.
- Final Smash - Master Spark: Works like Zero Laser.
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Suwako
Suwako would be a character who has a unique play style. Her goal is to get Goddess Power which powers up her attacks and allows access to different smashes.
Aerials
Neutral- Multiple Kicks like Yoshis down air
Side- Suwako takes out an Iron Ring and spins it while going sideways.
Up- Makes a tree in Midair that propels Suwako up
Down-Stops all aerial momentum and drops straight down. After a little bit, you can jump or recover out of it. Acts as a meteor smash and if you hit the ground, some water bullets come out.
Smashes
Side- Makes a tree right in front of Suwako to send people into the air.
Side Smash Full Charge(Spring Sign "Moriya Clear Water") - Fires out a stream of water in front of her.
Up Smash- Makes a water column on both sides of her.
Up Smash Full Charge(Divine Instrument "Moriya's Iron Ring")- Jumps and fires 3 rings at a downward angle. The rings disappear after a little while or if Suwako gets hit.
Down Smash-Suwako causes a miniature earthquake near her.
Down Smash Full Charge(Party Start "2 bows, 2 Claps, 1 Bow") - Suwako goes underground and two large hands appear and smash whoever happens to be between them.
Final Smash-(Scourge God "Mishaguchi-sama")- Suwako releases a ring of energy that lasts for a couple of seconds. Anyone who is caught in it is frozen in place. Suwako then calls on Mishaguchi to attack the foes she captured. It doesn't hit anyone who is not caught.
Specials
Neutral- Suwako jumps and dives into the ground damaging any enemy she hits and any enemy who is close by. Can be used in the air
Side- Suwako calls a stone frog from underground and rides it forward a little bit.
Up- Suwako rises up while spinning a metal ring. Used as a recovery or an anti-air move.
Down(Air)- Calls a geyser which appears below her. She retains her ariel momentum when she uses this move.
Down- Suwako starts storing power. After some time passes, she gets 1 unit of Goddess Power. Goddess Power increases the strength of your normal attacks and reduces the amount of knockback you take. It also increases your speed by a little bit. When you have 3 units of power, you gain access to a different set of Full Charge Smashes and a New Final Smash if you haven't used it already. After you use a Smash with 3 units of power, your power returns back to 0.
Side Smash Full Charge 3 Stock(Spring Sign "Horrid River Jade")- Send out a torrential river filled with pieces of Jade through the battlefield.
Up Smash Full Charge 3 Stock(Frog Hunt "Snake Hears And Eats Frog")- Suwako calls a stone snake which appears right in front of her.
Down Smash Full Charge 3 Stock(Frog Nap "Can Always Hibernate")- Suwako goes into the ground and starts healing damage. The attack will stop when Suwako gets hit or when you heal 40 damage.
Final Smash 3 Stock(Couldn't think of a good name so I will Just call it End of Heaven :V)- Suwako starts charging for a bit and then jumps into the background. She can be interrupted while charging. Once Suwako goes into the background, an arrow will appear. This arrow is the safespot. After a couple of seconds in the background, stone snakes will appear everywhere but the safespot heading upwards. Opponents can throw or hit people into the stone snakes for damage. After a couple of seconds, the stone snakes disappear and Suwako returns to the battlefield.
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Yukari
Yukari is the big, slow and powerful type, but her attacks have low knockback which makes it harder to finish enemies off. In addition many of her moves need time to set up before they can be used, requiring you to plan ahead and figure out the best place to use them. Her roll animation involves gaps, giving it good range and the ability to pass through walls.
Standard
- Down: A random road sign bursts from the ground in front of Yukari. Very tall hitbox and transcendant priority, making it a good anti-air move.
Aerials
- Neutral - Ghostly Butterfly Hidden in Zen Temple: Spins like a buzzsaw, preserving existing momentum.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Nest of Fireflies: Yukari sits back in midair while a group of white gaps appear behind her and fire projectiles.
- Up - Eye of Changes: Snake-esque boobytrap. Creates a barely-visible vertical slit in space. If an enemy comes within range it will open into an eye and shoot a projectile with transcendant priority, then vanish. You can only have one eye at once.
- Down - Flesh Dismantler: Disappears underground through a gap, then launches upwards as a buzzsaw similar to her Neutral Aerial. Holding left or right during the attack allows you to adjust where she reappears.
Specials
- Neutral - Quadruple Barrier: A melee attack with charge mechanics similar to Donkey Kong's Giant Punch. A fully-charged attack has a large hitbox, suction properties and lasts for 2.5 seconds, during which it inflicts continuous damage and blocks attacks.
- Side - Shikigami: Summons Chen (tilt) or Ran (smash) to spin at enemies. Chen travels in a bouncing arc with better range, while Ran travels in a straight line with better power. You cannot use this command again while a shikigami is already on the screen.
- Up - Wings of the Chimera: Creates a gap in the background at her current position - once set it lasts until she is KO'd or performs a taunt. Entering the command again causes her to teleport to it.
- Down - Ride the Waves, Fight the Ocean: Creates a gap that sucks up projectile attacks then releases them, much like Villager's Pocket move.
- Final Smash - Trip to the Old Station: THE TRAIN. Passes through walls as if they weren't there - gaps will open on either side of the wall so it doesn't look like it's just clipping through.
Throws
- Forward - Bound to the Grave: Sends debris out from a gap in a fan shape, knocking the target back.
- Reverse:
- Up: Yukari tosses the target down into a gap which transports them to the top of the screen. A resourceful Yukari player can use this move on allies to help them get in position.
- Down - Lamented Box of Urashima: Drops debris on the target from nowhere.
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Prime32, we think alike for certain moves, don't we?
So what do people think of my movesets?
I'll post again whenever I make major updates.
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Suwako
Actually, I did come up with a standard moveset for Suwako. How's this?
Suwako
Entrance: Pops out of the ground.
Icon: Frog
Neutral Special: Moriya Water
-Suwako charges up to shoot a stream of water from her mouth. If the attack is used prematurely, Suwako will only spray bubbles that can deal small damage. When allowed to charge, she will be able to spew a blast of water with considerable knockback and decent power. The charge can be saved for later use.
Side Special: Little Frog God
-Suwako removes her hat and a small water frog emerges from it. This frog will hop around the stage and cause damage to any opponent it touches. It is slow, however, and can be fended up with an attack. If the frog is left along long enough, it will vanish.
Up Special: Lily Pad Bounce
-A lily pad appears under Suwako, bouncing her up to great heights with amazing vertical recovery. This does not render Suwako helpless, but she will be unable to use any other special moves until she hits the ground.
Down Special: Native Scourge
-Suwako blows out a dark cloud of curse energy. The initial attack causes small damage but the cloud left behind acts as poison and causes 1% of damage for every second the opponent makes contact with it.
Final Word: Season of the Frog
-Suwako begins to croak melodically as frogs begin to appear on the stage and leap about, The frogs cause damage by contact and can slam into other opponents. They range from small blue frogs (weak and most common), to medium sized green frogs (slightly stronger, but less common) and larger golden frogs (powerful but rare). This attack has a duration of ten seconds before it expires.
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A few more.
Tenshi
Entrance: Descends to the arena whilst sitting on a keystone.
Icon: Peach
Neutral Special: Red Temperament
-Tenshi starts charging energy in her Hisou sword to execute a powerful slash. The sword will go from orange to red while charging this attack. When fully charged, Tenshi will slam her sword down, causing an explosion of red energy. This move causes some recoil damage.
Side Special: Sword of Non-Perception
-Rushes forward with her Hisou sword held high. If the first blow hits, Tenshi finishes it with a second slash with added power.
Up Special: Celestial Slash
-Tenshi soars with the Hisou sword in hand, giving off a red aura. Enemies that are hit will become burned.
Down Special: Guarding Keystones
-Brings out four small keystones to circle Tenshi. This will protect him from any projectile fired at her. Using the button again will have her throw the shield in front of her.
Final Word: Scarlet Sky
-An accuracy move where Tenshi slashes her sword, sending everyone hit airborne. Once this happens, she points her sword upward to fire a mass of red energy at her victims. This move is powerful enough to ensure a KO.
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Mononobe no Futo
Entrance: Rides in on the Ame-no-Iwafune boat
Icon: A plate
Neutral Special: Kawarake Throw*
-Futo tosses out a plate like a frisbee. This is a chargeable move; when thrown normally it will break when it strikes an obstacle. But if charged, it will hit multiple times before it breaks.
*Futo will have a plate meter above her icon that works with this move. The more plates that are broken, the more this meter fills. Her power will steadily grow based this. When the meter is full, Futo will be at her max power.
Side Special: Star Dragon Bow
-Futo readies a bow and fires an arrow of light. This can also be charged to add power to the arrow. If the arrow is at the peak of its charge, you will perform a spread shot.
Up Special: Carrying Winds
-A whirlwind is formed under Futo as she takes flight. This wind can catch and rapidly damage any one she touches.
Down Special: Holy Fire
-Futo shoots a fireball from her sleeve in the direction she is facing. This attack can be charged as well to affect the size and power of the flame.
Final Word: Grave Misfortune
-Futo uses feng shui to create a large circular field about herself that severely weakens anyone inside of it, causing them to be sluggish. While in this space, her power gets a tremendous boost and her stronger moves can KO. This field only lasts fifteen seconds.
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Utsuho
Entrance: Appears from a small explosion.
Icon: Nuclear hazard symbol
Neutral Special: Hell Wave Cannon
-Utsuho starts to charge nuclear energy in her Third Leg, as a condensed orb, which she can store for later use. The orb increases in size as it is charged and deals more damage the bigger it is allowed to grow.
Side Special: Yatagarasu Dive
-Utsuho glows with energy and charges at the foe. This attack boasts considerable knockback and leaves a burning aftereffect that can still damage on contact.
Up Special: Rocket Dive
-Utusho gathers energy to propel herself in a given direction. Like Yatagarasu Drive, this move leaves a burning aftereffect on Okuu that slightly damages anyone who touches her.
Down Special: Flare Up
-Releases a blast of nuclear energy upward in a helix formation, causing damage to nearby opponents as they are carried into the air.
Final Word: Overheated Nuclear Rampage
-Utsuho begins to overheat and takes flight. She can be controlled and can fire powerful shots. When the attack ends, Utusho explodes and falls, becoming helpless. The ending explosion deals significant damage.
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So... Miko in HM gets boosts/penalties based on her popularity. Smash Bros. does have a popularity mechanic of sorts (http://www.ssbwiki.com/Crowd), but... eh. I figure she could just have Tenfold Listening as a taunt with a long animation that boosts it one level. In any case she'd start the match with the purple cape, but always respawn with a blue cape if KO'd.
Enough of the father, on to the daughter:
Kokoro
The Pok?mon Trainer equivalent, Kokoro can switch between three masks via her Down Special, which are displayed both on her model and in her portrait at the bottom of the screen (and change the colours of her attack trails/projectiles just to make it more visible). Each mask modifies the properties of some of her attacks and grants her different specials. Kokoro begins the match unmasked, making most of her specials unavailable (lol development gags) - she'll generally want to leave this state as soon as possible. As a character debuting in an aerial fighting game she has pretty good aerials, as well as good wavedash potential. As a performer she tends to have slow but powerful attack animations.
General Mask Effects
- None: Attack trails and projectiles are white.
- Joy/Taoism: Attack trails and projectiles are green. Projectiles are smaller but faster, both in travel speed and cooldown. Kokoro herself has a slightly faster movement speed, and her dash animation has a faster startup.
- Anger/Buddhism: Attack trails and projectiles are red. Some of her melee attacks now have an extra hit, more power or better knockback angles. Kokoro's weight increases, affecting her jump distance, fall speed and knockback resistance, but this form also comes with her best third jump.
- Melancholy/Shinto: Attack trails and projectiles are blue. Projectiles gain homing properties. Kokoro becomes floatier, enough to compensate for her lack of a third jump.
Standard
- Forward: Kokoro swings her fan, sending out a dense spray of energy balls that quickly vanish (they don't count as projectiles for reflector moves). Great reach, but hitting with the fan itself inflicts more damage and can break shields.
- Taunt: Launches her current mask (aimable), stunning anything it hits and inflicting an elemental effect depending on the mask. The Joy mask has upward knockback, Anger has forward and Melancholy has downward. Reverts Kokoro to maskless state.
Aerials
- Neutral: A forwards attack that becomes omnidirectional in Shinto mode.
- Down: As her Forward tilt, but swings the fan downwards. The fan itself can deliver a meteor smash, which becomes a spike in Buddhist mode.
Smash Attacks
- Side: Swipe with her naginata.
- Up:
- Down - Four Humors Possession: An omnidirectional blast with different effects based on her current mask.
Specials
- Neutral: Shoots a will-o-wisp forward. Holding the button causes it to charge up a larger energy ball (Joy), to charge up a barrage of balls (Anger), or to fire continuously (Melancholy or unmasked). Holding the button in midair causes Kokoro to keep facing the same direction even while moving backwards.
- Side (Joy) - Delighted Lion Mask: Kokoro breathes fire at a slight downwards angle. If performed in midair it comes out at 45 degrees, slows her fall, and can be adjusted up and down while attacking, but leaves her helpless afterwards.
- Side (Anger) - Shouting Giant Spider Mask : Kokoro shoots out webs to perform a long-range grab that doubles as a tether recovery.
- Side (Melancholy) - Melancholic Ogress Mask: Throws a homing mask which returns to her like a boomerang, dealing damage both times.
- Up (Joy) - Enraptured Hyottoko Mask: A recovery move which sends Kokoro moving slowly upwards while launching fireworks to damage nearby enemies. Her trajectory can be aimed somewhat.
- Up (Anger) - Roaring Youkai Fox Mask: Kokoro shoots diagonally upwards, surrounded by a damaging aura with a slight vacuum effect. Hits multiple times, and high knockback on the last hit. Is Kokoro's best recovery move in terms of sheer distance, but also somewhat predictable.
- Up (Melancholy) - Sighing Okasabe Mask: Masks float around Kokoro, dealing damage to nearby enemies. The masks remain for a while after the move is complete.
- Down - Kokoro Roulette: Kokoro glows in the colour of her active mask while all three masks spin around her, dealing damage. This attack lasts as long as the button is held, minimum 1.5 seconds, and after every 1.5 seconds Kokoro's active mask will change to the next in sequence.
- Final Smash - Noh of Darkness: Kokoro rushes forward with a mask in her hand. If she hits an opponent she proceeds to cutscene them to death.
Throws
- Forward - Men of Qi Fear the Earth: Creates a stream of energy in front of Kokoro that blasts upwards at a slight angle, knocking the target away horizontaly. In Buddhist mode the stream is more heavily angled, and the knockback angle tilts downwards.
- Reverse:
- Up:
- Down:
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Wow you guys are really into this, there is a good amount of detail in a lot of your descriptions and that's awesome. By the way, feel free to tell me if it is similar to a move of a character from the actual smash games, it really helps me imagine it.
Also, the only 2 characters I'm going to confirm so far are the two in the OP, Tenshi and Sakuya . I'm going to be working on this project all year, and the first public playable build will have between 5 and 8 characters. I'm hoping to get that build of the game ready in December. Depending on if it gets popular or not enough with the Touhou Community and/or Smash Community, the final version of the game will have 12-20 characters in the roster.
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Remilia
Entrance: Emerges from a swarm of bats
Icon: A bat
Neutral Special: Vampire Kiss
-Remilia makes a lunge at the opponent. If she makes her target, she will bite into them, recovering by a very small percentage before tossing them aside.
Side Special: Servant Flier
-Remilia stretches out her arm, summoning a magic circle to shoot bat shaped bullets. The bats travel a straight path normally, but they can be guided a little with the directional buttons.
Up Special: Demon Lord Cradle
-Remilia jumps into the sky, surrounded by red energy. Anyone caught in it suffers huge knockback. This move is quite fast and has extreme vertical recovery.
Down Special: Trickster Devil
-A crafty move that has Remilia fake out, only to dash behind the foe and slash them. This move is useful for avoiding most attacks, as she has invincibility frames as she slips around the opponent.
Final Word: Blood Moon
-Remilia lets out a shriek, as a red moon appears over the arena, giving her strength. For the next eighteen seconds, she moves a lot faster, deals more damage and knockback, and is mostly invincible.
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Aya
Entrance: Jumps into the stage from the foreground
Icon: Maple fan
Neutral Special: Gust Kick
-Aya waves her fan to summon a small whirlwind in front of her. The wind damages an opponent multiple times before dropping them.
Side Special: Domination Dash
-Aya charges forward shrouded in wind.
Up Special: Graceful Dash
-Uses the wind to dash in a given direction. Aya can perform this move twice in succession.
Down Special: Instashot
-Aya whips out a camera and snaps a picture. During this, a circular sight will appear in front of her. A character within this sight will be stunned once Aya takes her shot (the duration of the stun depends on percentage). This move will also dissipate projectiles. If successful, Aya will pump her fist in celebration.
Final Word: Grand Tengu Storm
-With her fan, Aya blows a massive cyclone across the arena. Opponents that are trapped will be launched sideways by the wind.
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Maybell for Touhou Smash Bros
erm...as I was saying...
Guess I'll post a small moveslist suggestion for Miko.
Neutral Smash: How about a charging projectile attack like Samus has? Just that it fires a laser beam instead of an energy ball.
Side Smash: Ya know that attack Miko has in HM where she summons the three swords? Why not do that, with the swords aligning upwards when on the ground, and downwards when airborne?
Up Smash: Meta Knight-style teleporting, complete with being able to attack right out of it like MK himself. May need some distance though; that move was just awful for recovery in SSBB.
Down Smash: A Marth-style counter. Nothing special.
Final Smash: PK Starstorm Let's reference her final spellcard in TD by dropping a rain of danmaku from the top of the screen.
tried Glass Wing by the way. Stuck ridiculously early in, but I'll be damned if I'm not determined to figure out what I'm doing wrong; really enjoyable
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Prime32, we think alike for certain moves, don't we?
So what do people think of my movesets?
I'll post again whenever I make major updates.
Mostly I approve. And not just because of the overlap; I didn't write a lot of standard moves. :V I was considering a "throw the Yin-Yang Orb" move for Reimu, but I figured it could just become an item that works like the Soccer Ball (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5eZJ2VGQQE). I like most of your Cirno, but I'd change how Icicle Machine Gun works and give her a mechanic inspired by Great Fairy Wars:
Cirno
Cirno is a lightweight but makes up for it with a tiny hitbox, good aerials and a Kirby-style quintuple jump. All of her attacks have low damage - most of her moveset focuses on spamming multiple consecutive hits, while her smash attacks have surprisingly powerful knockback.
Standard
- Side - Ice Charge: Tackles forward with an icy aura.
- Dash: Rolls a snowball forward.
Aerials
- Neutral - Ice Tornado: Spins like a top while wreathed in cold energy. Leaves her helpless afterwards.
- Down - Ice Kick: Diagonal dive kick which cannot be cancelled - it lasts until Cirno collides with something, and then leaves her stunned. Like a bizarro version of Luigi's Super Jump Punch, if sweetspotted it becomes a Super Ice Kick that deals high damage and freezing.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Frost Columns: Creates an ice stalagmite that launches enemies up, then shrinks into the ground again. If halfway charged then creates a second icicle further away with a slight delay. Fully charging the attack adds a third icicle. The rising and falling motion resembles a Mexican wave.
- Up - Little Iceberg: Cirno creates a block of ice above her head and throws it, inflicting damage and freezing.
- Down - Great Crusher: Swings down a huge mallet to deliver a meteor smash with very fast startup. At maximum charge it also inflicts freezing, making it essentially a OHKO if used correctly.
Specials
- Neutral - Icicle Machine Gun: Similar to Fox's Blaster in Melee. Cirno shoots a stream of three icicles one after the other, each dealing 1% damage and zero knockback, and it can be spammed for an insane rate of fire.
- Side:
- Up - Sword Freezer: Cirno spins vertically with an ice sword, launching her up into the air. Can hit multiple times.
- Down - Perfect Freeze: Works like the solo version of the Ice Climbers' Down Special, but lasts longer if the button is held. It also has the ability to freeze projectiles and regain HP from them, which works like Lucas's PSI Magnet (including turning around instantly if attacked from behind) except that it affects mainly physical attacks rather than energy-based ones.
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Wriggle
Entrance: Enters in with a Kamen-rider styled Wriggle Kick.
Icon: Firefly
Neutral Special: Nightbug Tornado
-Wriggle begins to spin at a high speed, slightly pulling in nearby opponents. They are trapped and damaged multiple times for the duration of this move. You can freely move around, even in the air, but be careful! Wriggle will become helpless once it ends.
Side Special: Hidden Bug
-Wriggle vanishes with a swarm of fireflies to quickly rush the opponent. Invincibility frames are granted at the start of the move. However, the rush attack cannot be canceled and will leave Wriggle helpless if used in mid-air.
Up Special: Firefly Phenomenon
-A teleportation move where Wriggle flips her cape, disappearing in a small flash of light, only to reappear in a guided direction from a swarm of fireflies. Wriggle's reappearance causes damage if she happens to touch someone coming in.
Down Special: Nightbug Storm
-Wriggle spins in place, extending her cape with her arms to strike opponents in her proximity. This move hits multiple times with an ending flourish that possesses decent knockback. Unlike Nightbug Tornado, you are stationary when using this move.
Final Word: Guiding Swarm
-Wriggle takes out a branch as a makeshift baton, and summons a horde of fireflies. These fireflies can be controlled by the directional buttons to attack other enemies on the arena. Depending on where you guide the flies, Wriggle will point in that direction. The swarm will pick up speed the longer they fly in a consistent direction, giving them a good KO potential. They can also carry opponents off.
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Suika
Suika is a character who has to get in close to hit with most of her moves but once she is close, she can do massive damage to you in a short amount of time.
Aerials
Up- Tosses a chain up that can tether if you are close to the edge.
Down- Takes her gourd out and swings it in a downward angle. If the opponent is hit by the first part, the second part happens where there is a miniature explosion and the opponent is meteor smashed
Smashes
Side- Punches with her fist which causes 3 explosions appearing in a line.
Side Full Charge(Secret of Kings "3-Step Destruction")- Charges for a while, then unleashes a combo of 3 punches getting bigger between each punch. However, if this attack misses, the opponent gets a free attack in at you so be careful.
Up- Does an uppercut which sends 3 explosions at an upward angle.
Up Full Charge(Oni Sign "Missing Power")- Suika charges and then grows in size for a moment. Any person near her when she grows is sent up into the air.
Down- Pounds the ground and a fireball comes out and heads in the direction that Sukia was facing. The ground pond doesn't do damage though.
Down Full Charge(Drunk Sign "Art of Oni Binding")- Suika throws her chain out. If she grabs someone, she pulls them closer to her allowing Suika to get a couple of attacks in.
Final(Oni Sign "Massacre on Mt.Ooe")- Suika tries to grab whoever is in front of her. If it misses then she is left open to attacks while she recovers. If she grabs the opponent, she slams them 3 times into the stage. The first two times aren't special but the third time, she jumps really high into the air and slams the opponent causing an explosion which can also damage nearby opponents.
Specials
Neutral- Throws a fireball that bounces while going forward. If you charge it, you throw 3 fireballs. Can be used in the air.
Side- Does 2 straight punches and then can pick from 1 of 3 combo enders like marths side special.
S_Up- Does an uppercut into the air.
S_Neutral- Does rapid repeating punches ending in an explosive punch
S_Down- Does a sweep kick which knocks the opponent down.
Up-Spins her gourd around propelling her upwards. Can be used with the up aerial to make a good recovery if you are close to the edge.
Down- Makes a black hole that sucks opponents in for a limited amount of time
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Hmm...maybe I could give it a shot with a standard set for Suika.
Suika
Entrance: Floats down as a mist and materializes.
Icon: Her gourd
Neutral Special: Oni Spirit Bomb
-Suika gathers heat to create a fireball over her head. This move can be saved for later use.
Side Special: Mini-Suika
-Suika throw a horde of mini-Suikas at opponents. The mini-Suikas cling to foes, slowing them down; they're not very strong, however, and can be removed with basic attacks.
Up Special: Super Oni Jump
-Suika jumps extremely high, then crashes down, causing a shockwave around her. If Suika hits a foe on her way down, they are spiked. Suika can also damage opponents at the start of the jump.
Down Special: Gathering Oni
-Creates a black hole in front of her that sucks in projectile attacks. Once a projectile is absorbed, using the move again will shoot it out at an opponent.
Final Word: Complete Massacre
-Suika grabs in front of her. If she manages to catch someone, she will grapple them and violently thrash them about, before slamming them down a final time. A wickedly powerful technique that is sure to KO!
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Hello, i am Kyouma from the forums kc-mm; I make Super Smash Bros Brawl hacks and I have imported tons of Touhou models
You can see them there: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?ByUserID=19885
And I will support this project on any way as its on my possibilities
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You mean like Hououin Kyouma? That's cool. I am literally only starting just now on this project. Apart from a few character models that I made and intend to use. I did the entire cast of EoSD: http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/342/9/8/same_pick_but_better_spaced_for_moniters_by_saijeehiguchi-d6x8yn4.png
Nitori: http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/356/2/0/nitori_model_by_saijeehiguchi-d6yzjmm.png
And as you know, Tenshi.
Mind you, while all of these characters in some shape or for are definitely going to be used in the game it does not affect the roster of playable characters. However should they be playable, these are the designs they will use.
This is a project that I am extremely determined to do and I currently have it as top priority, even over college education.
As soon as I get a good amount of development in the game that it's worth showing actual dev progress I'll start regularly posting youtube videos about it. If you want to help out, when that time comes, be sure to show those videos to anyone and everyone you think would love any of the following concepts:
1) Another Touhou Fighter Game
2) A 3D Touhou Fan Game
3) A Smash Bros Clone
4) And of course: Touhou as Smash Bros.
The more that I see people talking about this project, the more inspired I am to make sure this game comes out in it's fullest form.
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I would love it if the faces are more anime-like. They look kind of creepy, especially the eyes...
No offense...
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I would love it if the faces are more anime-like. They look kind of creepy, especially the eyes...
No offense...
I second that...
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This is what a few of the faces actually look like up close in static:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2uqg37c.jpg
You are correct in noticing that they are not done in an anime style.
Depending on how *something* about this project goes much later on, I may or may not make higher quality revamped graphics. But it is safe to say that this is what I have in order to work with for making the game right now.
If I may ask, would you elaborate upon this "creepyness" you speak of?
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If I may ask, would you elaborate upon this "creepyness" you speak of?
It's just how realistic they look. It's a bit unsettling. Especially on younger characters like Cirno and Flandre where the faces don't really match them at all. Like game2011 said, it'd look better if a more cartoony anime style was used for them instead.
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you could rather leave the models to me since I am a SSBB model importer and you can make an engine for the game that reads the .pac/.pcs files from brawl in order of having a closer experience to what the actual brawl is
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s388/BrawlerKyouma/Touhou/Sakuya/06_zpsbb808017.png)
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s388/BrawlerKyouma/Touhou/Momiji/03_zpsa6c4e393.png)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae50/Shingyoku/Touhou%2014/Sekibanki/seki2_zps5e5f2eb3.png)
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s388/BrawlerKyouma/Touhou/Mokou/07_zpsa4feb268.png)(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s388/BrawlerKyouma/Touhou/Mokou/08_zps0b53ac57.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afvk5aMDiw8
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But aren't those models from MMD? I don't think that will be necessary.
As I recall the only concern is the style that the faces are drawn, keep on elaborating, I'm jotting down notes. I don't think it is anything beyond my abilities, but I would really appreciate very specific details over broad ones.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2vci5ie.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/15etp91.jpg)
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I'm probably speaking for myself, but I'm just more used to seeing the Touhou characters portrayed more in an brighter anime style than the contrary. Again, maybe that's just me.
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I was never really convinced that Touhou is meant to look like anime, at least not exclusively. Especially seeing as how the official game art doesn't seem to resemble anime art:
(http://s3.roosterteeth.com/images/TheBadger48c98a838c0d5.jpg)(https://warosu.org/data/jp/img/0120/88/1399080013722.jpg)
The tolerance and/or acceptance for variation that can be dealt with stylization of the Touhou characters has always been an aspect of it that fascinated me, especially when it comes to fan art like these:
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lerym9WcX21qeqezm.png)(http://cache.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/509471-bigthumbnail.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5VW78A9ZqOU/Tn4hBWUjEbI/AAAAAAAABWw/xu4cShJvpJM/s640/Konachan.com+-+84695+blue_hair+braids+fang+izayoi_sakuya+realistic+red_eyes+remilia_scarlet+touhou+vampire+white_hair.jpg)
(http://kazasou.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/konachan-com-81341-barefoot-blonde_hair-flandre_scarlet-hat-ponytail-realistic-red_eyes-refrainorz-short_hair-touhou-vampire-wings.jpg)(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6766/8e1699a3ea885337185250e.jpg)(http://safebooru.org//images/185/50cce01c37a468062fe608b32e6a2dfad3186987.jpg?184662)
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As I recall the only concern is the style that the faces are drawn, keep on elaborating, I'm jotting down notes. I don't think it is anything beyond my abilities, but I would really appreciate very specific details over broad ones.
I'm okay with the current style, and not really one to be giving artistic advice anyway, but... maybe the noses are too low, and their bridges too pronounced?
Also, another character writeup:
Youmu
Youmu is a light, fast character with a relatively small hitbox. Her jumps are fast and high and she can wall jump, but she also falls fast and is generally at her best on the ground anyway. She has an iaido theme running through her moveset - three of her specials can be charged (Ten Desires anyone?), and the last one is a parry.
In most Touhou games Youmu has odd mechanics that make her powerful but hard to master, which is worth bearing in mind.
Aerials
- Down - Slashing a Flower Upon One's Head: Meteor smash. Shoots almost straight downwards with her sword held out in front of her, and cannot be cancelled until it hits the ground.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Secret of Life and Death: Youmu pushes forward and slashes the target, dealing decent damage and knocking them back a fixed distance. Then her ghost half transforms into a transparent copy of her physical body, chases down the target and attacks them again with half the damage but much greater knockback. It's possible to dodge the second attack after being hit by the first.
- Down - Meditation Slash: Youmu charges her sword with green energy and swings it down as it extends to great length. At full charge it becomes Rise From Delusion, which is blue and has greater reach.
Specials
- Neutral - Lotus Stance Cut: A chargable sword slash that sends out a large, slow-moving projectile with decent damage but poor knockback. The blade itself also hits with a significant amount of force, possibly with shield-breaking properties.
- Side - Slash of Present: Similar to Ike's Quick Draw. Youmu crouches and sheathes her sword, then slashes with it while shooting forward.
- Up - Crescent Moon Slash: Sweeping upwards slash in a wide arc that sends Youmu upwards. On the ground Youmu strikes twice and it can be charged for greater power and reach. In the air Youmu makes a single, slower strike which cannot be charged but grants more super armor.
- Down - Insightful Sword: The most powerful parry move in the game. Similar to Marth/Ike/Roy's Counter, but can also reflect projectiles if timed well (albeit without a damage multiplier).
Throws
- Forward - Sword of Cycles: Repeatedly swings her sword in a wide arc, leaving circles of pink light, then finishes off with a horizontal slash that knocks enemies forward.
- Reverse - Intolerant Avici: It's one of the few canonical throw moves so it pretty much has to be in here. Has low power, but a long hitstun which makes it possible to chain grab.
- Up - Ascension to Nirvana: Slashes with both swords, creating a blast of pink light that knocks enemies upwards.
- Down:
I wanted to get in some version of Medium's Bind (the SWR move where she launches her ghost half at the opponent from long range), but I was worried it would dilute the theme (Youmu shouldn't have a lot of projectiles, and sword beams seem more iconic).
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I'm going to continue NOT confirming or denying any character yet.
But Prime32's post did make me remember about some things that I think would make for interesting Smash Touhou Parallels. That is, Youmu has Myon. She is a 2 part character. And I think there are a number of other examples in touhou that have the potential to deliver something of an Ice Climbers or Rosa-luma combination.
Again, not confirming or denying anything, but I'd really love to hear possible ideas for movesets of these partner, or group type characters (picmin and olimar?).
Also---- I was wondering if anyone wanted one of the unspeaking characters as a playable? I mean the likes of Greater Fairy, Little Devil, Momiji and the such.
Or maybe something confusingly uncanny. Like Solo-Myon or Ran Yakumo.... Rinnosuke?
Again nothing is decided yet. Just wanted to put this post out there to let you know that anything is possible.
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On the faces thing here (http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd54/Prime32_temp/Modified/Saijee_koakuma_MOD_zps042055d0.png)'s a quick edit I threw together, adjusting the nose upwards and also adding lines for eyelids. Dunno if it's better or worse.
EDIT:I'm going to continue NOT confirming or denying any character yet.
But Prime32's post did make me remember about some things that I think would make for interesting Smash Touhou Parallels. That is, Youmu has Myon. She is a 2 part character. And I think there are a number of other examples in touhou that have the potential to deliver something of an Ice Climbers or Rosa-luma combination.
Again, not confirming or denying anything, but I'd really love to hear possible ideas for movesets of these partner, or group type characters (picmin and olimar?).
Hmmm... What about this? Seiga is a lightweight ranged type. Her Down Special summons Yoshika, who is powerful and incredibly resistant to knockback but has limited hp, and places her under player control. Seiga continues to float behind Yoshika (even passing through walls :]) and perform slower/weaker versions of her normal Specials, while Yoshika herself has a different set of physical attacks that sometimes involve Seiga's assistance. I guess it's less Ice Climbers/Rosalina, more of an elaborate version of Wario's Bike.
Though I figure the easiest Rosalina type to implement is probably Sekibanki. Her spell cards aren't that abstract compared to most of her competition, so there's not as much need to make stuff up. (Neutral special is eye beams! Recover by throwing her head and having it reel in her body!) She's maybe a dullahan, so maybe have her use a spine whip in some attacks. And in any case one of her attacks must be named Dark Matter Blaze. :V
Or maybe something confusingly uncanny. Like Solo-Myon or Ran Yakumo.... Rinnosuke?
There's the Sealing Club, though I imagine they'd have weird attack animations like falling over, pointing at things or dropping random objects from their stories. They could have a teleport move though I guess.
Rinnosuke at least has a gun, a magic katana, and random heavy merchandise he can bludgeon people with. (maybe a taser? :V)
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I was never really convinced that Touhou is meant to look like anime, at least not exclusively. Especially seeing as how the official game art doesn't seem to resemble anime art.
Well okay, I stand corrected. As I said, I was just speaking for myself. I've gotten used to seeing a lot of Touhou fanart taking inspiration from various anime styles. And with Smash 4 having a sort of bright colorful style to it, I thought it might be fitting to do the same with this.
But Prime32's post did make me remember about some things that I think would make for interesting Smash Touhou Parallels. That is, Youmu has Myon. She is a 2 part character. And I think there are a number of other examples in touhou that have the potential to deliver something of an Ice Climbers or Rosa-luma combination.
Again, not confirming or denying anything, but I'd really love to hear possible ideas for movesets of these partner, or group type characters (picmin and olimar?).
I was thinking that Alice could work somewhat like Olimar, but I haven't fully planned how it'd work yet.
And all I have concerning Youmu is the Quick Draw idea. To explain again, Quick Draw was my idea for a unique gameplay style for Youmu which involved her making use of either Roukanken or Hakurouken. Roukanken is longer, slower and deals more damage. Hakurouken is shorter, faster, but deals less damage. Quick Draw is a down special move that lets Youmu exchange blades. It worked with a sword gauge above her damage percentage. If you used Quick Draw when this gauge is full, Youmu will perform a powerful slash as she unsheathes her sword, heavily damaging enemies nearby.
This idea was inspired by the Quick Draw mechanic in Muramasa the Demon Blade. You could equip a maximum of three swords each with different attributes. But the blades can break, forcing you to exchange them through Quick Draw. Not only did Quick Draw change swords, but if you did this when a sword broke, or when the sword you're switching to is fully powered, you'll perform a widescreen slash for huge damage on enemies.
Also---- I was wondering if anyone wanted one of the unspeaking characters as a playable? I mean the likes of Greater Fairy, Little Devil, Momiji and the such.
I did think that possibly Koakuma could be part of Patchouli's recovery special, sort of acting as how Tails does in the Sonic games when he carries Sonic.
Anyway, here's another possible character idea.
Young Reimu*
*basically PC-98 Reimu
Entrance: Runs in, but trips slightly. She stops herself, and pulls out her purification rod.
Icon: Yin-Yang Orb
Neutral Special: Search Shot
-Young Reimu fires a single white amulet that homes in slightly on nearby opponents. If you charge this move, she will shoot a much larger amulet.
Side Special: Power Slide
-Young Reimu performs a sliding kick that goes for a reasonable distance, knocking away any enemy in her path. This also reflects thrown items and projectiles.
Up Special: Spiritual Flight
-Young Reimu uses Spiritual Power to fly for a while. But, she's still training in the art of flying efficiently, so if she's hit while using this move, she'll lose her concentration and will fall, helpless.
Down Special: Descending Yin-Yang Orb
-Young Reimu points with her gohei, causing a Yin-Yang Orb to drop on the head of a nearby opponent. The yin-yang orb is usually black and white, but at certain intervals, a more powerful red and white orb will fall.
Final Word: Sealing Ritual Practice
-Young Reimu strikes an opponent with her purification rod, sealing them within a hokura shrine. Young Reimu will proceed to give a short prayer whilst waving around the rod. After a short while, the shrine will explode as the trapped character is launched away and Young Reimu bounces in celebration.
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Young Reimu*
*basically PC-98 Reimu
No Genji as a third jump? (https://shannaro.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/naruto506-3.jpg) :V
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No Genji as a third jump? (https://shannaro.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/naruto506-3.jpg) :V
Isn't Genji kinda large? xD That's my only reason for excluding him from Young Reimu's moveset.
Also, if we're talking characters similar to the Ice Climbers/Rosalina & Luma, how about Ran and Chen?
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I dont see whats the problem with using MMD models; theire pretty neat and IMO, they look better than the ones youre making.
But apart from the model stuff, have you planned the programming and the serious and tedious stuff about the game yet? We dont want it to stay as a dream-type project where the moveset and all are planned but no actual progress on the game on itself
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I think the faces get unsettling when you look at them up close (I can't really say as to how though), but with the images in the OP they look fine for a few reasons. 1. your not gonna see the faces as a focus anyway, you will still see them but with how SSB plays you won't be staring at it. 2. I'm sure the faces will be animated a bit as well. Like the Tenshi in the OP, she looks fine to me she has emotion to her and it takes away that "creepiness".
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@Kyouma, from what I understand about Touhou fangames: You are not supposed to (or at least, it is frowned upon when you) use resources that are not meant for the project. And if you do, people will not take the game as serious as they would had all of the resources been original creations specially for the game, or otherwise just resources that were created by the team from a previous game (like Touhouvania and Touhouvania 2). From Soy Sauce is an actual registered Doujin Circle at any rate.
IMO, they look better than the ones youre making
Thank you for your frankness but FSS does not use 3D models or animations that other people create, unless they are commissioned by us.
Rest assured, this is no phantasm of a project. This is indeed a real project that I am really going to program. It's going to be made using Anim8or to make the 3D models, Maya to animate, and Unity for the actual game. If I have not stated before, a playable build is planned to be all ready for the public at the end of this year. And I will devote more attention to this project then I will even to my own college education.
And yes, I AM SOOOO SERIOUS about this project. I am no slouch when it comes to making video games or animation. Just try out the last game I made and see for yourself, it was a game made for the 64 digits spring contest to make a game in just 30 days, I got 3rd place with my entree, a Zelda OoT inspired adventure that drives it's narrative experience from psychological horror, try it out right now if you will:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p3rg9WNCiY&feature=youtu.be
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/150/7/5/glass_wing_title_card_by_saijeehiguchi-d7kcl1c.png)
@ Colticide, yes they do look better when given expressions as can be seen here:
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/338/7/a/marisa_kirisame_face_expression_test_by_saijeehiguchi-d6wpsx7.png)
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In that case, I'll be waiting to see how this turns out. :3
I was a little unsure before because I'm more used to a cartoony anime style with the characters. Like in games such as Touhou (http://i.imgur.com/xW5zcdE.jpg) Sky (http://i.imgur.com/pKqhEU3.jpg) Arena (http://i.imgur.com/J6rNv1I.png) and Maihana (http://i.imgur.com/fyQD2s3.png) Ao (http://i.imgur.com/mkraOTT.png) Makyou (http://i.imgur.com/QJgFgdd.png).
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Correct me if I'm wrong. But is your case similar to this: It's not exactly that the western appearance looked creepy to you, but rather it was a confusing surprise to see 3D renditions of Touhou characters NOT done in anime style?
Let me make something clear, I am not offended, and I don't mean to come off as a jerk, but as you may have noticed I do like to press. But I do not press in retaliation but in hopes of enlightenment, as I wish to understand things that I am having problems seeing the problems too.
The more western art style is something that is actually quite important to me. I do actually try to put an amount of attention to detail on specific things (like how Reimu's face is specifically designed to look more Japanese than the others, and similarly Meiling's looks more Chinese ). However, I am willing to be flexible to a point, so long as you all can elaborate on the details that leave you dumbfounded, disturbed or otherwise unaccepting.
@Savory, it is not too late for me to make the textures more vibrant in color, and I also intend to have them be a much higher resolution.
I'll do my best by putting out side-by-sides (like prime32) to gather your collective input on preferences for the direction of this style. Here is the first question I have for you:
What should the head proportion be?
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/2rh2x54.jpg)
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I hope I don't come off as being rude, but it was moreso the style of faces for some of the characters that kinda unnerved me. Especially for the younger looking characters like Cirno and Flandre in the facial features and head shape. In general, I'm just more used to the anime style, like the ones I linked to before. I don't mean any offense, though. Please don't let that discourage you. It's just visual preference for the most part.
Also, to answer your question, I think 7 heads tall looks better. That's about average anyway.
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Not rude, it's a good amount of constructive criticism for now, gives me some idea of what direction to go from here.
There is a difference between saying that: "the circle should be smaller," and "I don't like circles, it should be a triangle."
I am under the opinion that Touhou can look good done in a western art style, and I'd like you all to help me with making that so with your individual input from your unique perspective, instead of ignoring the challenge and switching to an anime likeness.
But I do want to stress, again, that I am listening for comments that I can deduce instruction from to modify the style within a reasonable flexibility.
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Ah, okay I'm relieved you're not upset. If you still want to keep a western style, I still think going for something more animated and cartoony might be a thought. As I've said, Smash 4 seems to be going for that route after the realistic route Brawl took.
Oh, not to change the subject or anything, but I was brainstorming possible stages.
Hakurei Shrine
Misty Lake
Scarlet Devil Mansion
World 1-1 (New Super Marisa Land)
Netherworld
Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
Makai
Underground Geyser
Another Dimension
Twilight City (Uwabami Breakers)
Moriya Shrine
Military Base (Seihou)
Also, what do you think of adding a guest character? Like one from Seihou or Uwabami Breakers?
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I want this to be a prim and proper Touhou doujin fan game. So anything from the official games, PC98 games to the literature is fair game, but only what is actual Touhou.
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Gotcha. I'll see what I can come up with then. Any comments on the movesets/ideas I've given thus far?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8BI8VhDwc
Do you think you can re-create this with that engine?
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@ Savory, well, like I keep on trying to point out. I'm just observing the discussions on the movesets and roster from a distance with my notebook and pen ready to take notes. I will say outright that I have the personal bias of liking the characters from EoSD and PCB more that the rest of the cast. And that is exactly why this topic exists in the first place, because I don't feel like I alone should be the one deciding who the Touhou fans want to appear in this game or how they should play like either. The actual discussion about it should be between you guys, which I noticed comes up occasionally, like a mention of Genji.
The final result of roster and moveset will be a combination of whatever I find to be popular opinion, and whatever I just imagine to be cool based on the way you guys describe it.
@Kyouma undoubtedly.
Look, if you want some kind of an evidence that I know what I'm doing and GW wasn't enough, at one point I was making a fighting game that had SSB ish controls, and you can see videos on how it worked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvqQcBOK4Qw
While the game was not released, I did continue refining the concept quite a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X60ml3khsA&t=0m26s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmKxhbOGCdg
Now I'm not making Touhou Smash with the engine used in that video, I just wanted to put those out there so that you know that I know EXACTLY what I'm doing because I've been practicing making a platformer fighting game for years. And every time that I've practiced doing so I made a new fighting engine from scratch, and it always winded up looking and feeling better with every iteration.
The way I see it, Touhou Smash has been such a desired concept, that it is bedaffling that such a fan game has not faithfully exist yet. And I'm going to sound extremely arrogant when I say this, but if anybody can do it —and do it right— between my intense desire to see the concept become realized, my passion for the Touhou universe, my hope to make a major contribution to the fandom, and my years of practice making a platformer fighter game, I feel like I'm the kind of guy who can make it all happen.
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@ Savory
Well okay. I was just hoping to get some feedback and suggestions. As usual, if anymore ideas come up, I'll be sure to post 'em. (Also, nice footage!)
On that note, I wanted to bring up stages again for a bit and describe them to some detail. However, based on the answer you gave me before, I have cut the Seihou stage, Military Base. But I kept Twilight City from Uwabami Breakers because I still feel it's fitting (the backstory involves Gensokyo). I wouldn't mind suggestions from everyone else concerning how these stages look and act, though!
Hakurei Shrine
*A normal stage with no stage hazards.
Misty Lake
*A giant lilypad will serve as the arena
*Some fairies will fly about in the background but will not disrupt the battle
*Wakasagihime will also surface and look upon the battle with curiosity. However, she will quickly flee if a character comes near her.
*A giant toad serves as the stage hazard, surfacing in the background to launch its tongue at the combatants. Being eaten results in an instant KO. If the toad misses, it will try again before giving up.
Scarlet Devil Mansion
*The SDM's roof will serve as the arena
*Flandre is the stage hazard and will appear in the background to attack the players with reckless abandon.
World 1-1 (New Super Marisa Land)
*A scrolling stage reminiscent of Mushroomy Kingdom from Brawl
*No stage hazards apart from bottomless pits and going off screen
Makai
*A Final Destination-type stage with combatants fighting on a massive chunk of earth floating through a strange realm.
Underground Geyser
*A shifting stage with the fighting taking place on a large elevating platform.
*First phase of the stage will start above ground as the platform begins to descend into a nuclear reactor.
*Once the platform reaches the bottom, a klaxon will blare after a while, sending the platform back to the surface.
Another Dimension
*An odd realm with creepy eyes in the background.
*A moving stage where fighters will have to jump on platforms in the midst of battle.
*Reaching the very top, a large gap will appear, sending the fighters back onto solid ground to repeat the climb again.
Twilight City (Uwabami Breakers)
*A stage set in a jazzy, mysterious city at night. A large skyscraper can be seem looming in the distance
*Similar to Smashville.
*Spectators watch in the back.
Genbu Ravine (NEW)
*A stage set in a massive ravine sporting a waterfall in the background.
*Fighters duke it out whilst standing on a mass of land.
*Kappas will frolic about, but will not disrupt the fight.
I am not positive about what to do for Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum, the Netherworld or Moriya Shrine. Any ideas, guys?
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Sorry, I know it's kind of late to say that, but it's because I only read the topic again now.
It's on the faces thing. The models look great overall, as in: their bodies. But their faces are rather... weird and creepy, as it was mentioned previously. Even though the style looks fine on "adult" characters such as Sakuya or Meiling, I agree with Savory that it doesn't suit characters such as Rumia or Flandre. It kinda makes me feel uncomfortable by looking at them, so I suggest changing those to an anime-esque "suave" style. It will suit them far more.
I'm aware that perhaps not everyone will agree with my opinion, but I'm pretty sure most of them would. At least it's what I could see from the majority here.
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This goes back to my analogy I posted a while back:
There is a difference between saying that: "the circle should be smaller," and "I don't like circles, it should be a triangle."
I don't think the style is the problem, but the execution of the style in application to the characters is. But It is really hard for me to make out your problems with said application when all I get as a "helpful" comment is "it looks creepy" I need to know "what" looks creepy about it. I need to be able to target the problem before making adjustments.
Let's try figure this out together 1 step at a time ok? I'm going to make a small mutation to the model every now and then, and you are going to tell me which version is a step in the right or wrong direction:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2d6myxw.jpg)
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I will be blunt and honest here.
the face you are making here are fucking ugly and unpleasant to look at.
I'm not hating on it not being anime style, as I love u-joe (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=u-joe) russian style Touhou arts, but with your it's ugly and unpleasant to look at.
and I have already told you, there are no "mechanical" anime style art, just one style popular than another, right now the popular style is moe, but back in the 80s (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=80s), it was not.
all the fanart you posted here are anime-styled in essence, they are slightly different because any artist worth their salt will have their distinct variant style to make them unique, that's also why anyone spent enough time collecting art will be able to tell the who drawn them,kozou (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=kozou_%28soumuden%29), sayori (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=sayori+touhou), ke-ta (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=ke-ta), eho (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=eho_%28icbm%29), amanojaku (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=amanojaku), an2a (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=an2a), banpai_akira (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=banpai_akira) are all famous artist, they all draw with their distinct style, they are all different enough that I can tell who draw which by glancing at them and guess what? in essence, they all draw in anime style, no one but possibly you would not call them anime-styled drawing.
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I'm getting pretty tired having to repeat myself:
It's not like I'm saying "If you don't like the art style, screw you"
I'm saying: "Tell me what it is about it that you don't like so I cam improve it."
And I think that you are wrong, the previously posted fan art isn't drawn in an anime style, nor is ZUN's art style anime. To suggest that an art style is dictated by the geographical location of the artist is far fetched.
Let Kimidori's post lay as a perfect example of what it means to be * not helping *
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I'm getting pretty tired having to repeat myself:
It's not like I'm saying "If you don't like the art style, screw you"
I'm saying: "Tell me what it is about it that you don't like so I cam improve it."
And I think that you are wrong, the previously posted fan art isn't drawn in an anime style, nor is ZUN's art style anime. To suggest that an art style is dictated by the geographical location of the artist is far fetched.
Let Kimidori's post lay as a perfect example of what it means to be * not helping *
then the 80s 90s anime was not in anime style? I mean look at the link I gave you above, they are vastly different from modern moe style, how do you even define what is anime style? just because they are popular doesn't mean that they are the definitive of the anime style.
all the arist I linked above are famous Japanese anime artist, they famous in japan, they attend anime convention in japan and sold their doujin there, and they all not drawn in the popular moe style, but they all themselves claim to be anime/ manga artist, now, what are you to deny them of their loved style? the style they love to draw. what are you to define what is and what is not anime style? what are you to deny the artist own definition of anime style that they drawn in? as I said, any artist worth their salt will have their distinct variant style.
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I'm getting pretty tired having to repeat myself:
It's not like I'm saying "If you don't like the art style, screw you"
I'm saying: "Tell me what it is about it that you don't like so I cam improve it."
This, people. Let's try to help Sai out. We can say that his style looks strange all we want, but it doesn't help if we don't go into detail about it.
And I think that you are wrong, the previously posted fan art isn't drawn in an anime style, nor is ZUN's art style anime.
While there does seem to be some western influence with some of the artists that do such a style, there's at least some kind of Eastern style involved. With Akira Banpai, for instance, his (or her?) style looks more anime since he (or she?) was trying to emulate the style of Castlevania.
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This game project seems quite interesting and I'd love to try the game once it gets that far. I can't really help with the ideas on the game since I haven't played the Smash Bros games "genre" enough to know what to suggest, but since this thread seems to have turned more about talking about the "creepiness" of the models, I'll jump in to give my thoughts on the matter.
I looked at the EoSD character portrait that was linked and I would say for most part they look good. They do seem to have that cold, emotionless vibe going on which I'm not really sure how to fix. Maybe try changing their eyes, add some shadows perhaps? But as was mentioned earlier, for the child-sized characters the same face model does not work. Children have bigger heads compared to the rest of the body, and their facial measurements are a bit different as well. Flandre in particular looks creepy because she looks like a 10 year-old with an adult's face.
Hopefully this came out somewhat constructive.
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Imho the models and faces are nice.
I second the notion that the faces only look unsettling and weird because of that soul- and emotionless look they have in the given preview.
When looking at Tenshi and Sakuya in the op they are really nice to look at.
But yes, if anything then Flandre and Remilia should have more childlike faces. Rumia not even so much. I like her.
Maybe Cirno and Daiyousei as well, but these two also look a bit too tall to me. When comparing to UNL for example, Cirno is about a head shorter than Reimu (not saying that you need to stick to these) and fairies in general are said to have a childlike appearance, much like Remi and Flan.
Oh, and I felt obliged to do this and stole the format that has been used so far:
Yuuka Kazami
Some specific moves leave behind flower fields that slow down her opponents for as long as they stay in them and speeds up herself both in movement- and attack-speed. They vanish after a short time.
She's more of a ground based character and her aerials are weak in comparison to her attacks while on the ground.
Entrance: Steps in from behind through some flowers.
Icon: Sunflower
Aerials
Neutral - Spins with her umbrella (think LLS stage 6). Hits in all directions, medium range, low knockback.
Side - Stabs with her umbrella. (Breaks shields ?)
Up - Scatters some blossoms upwards at close range. They remain in the air for a moment and can block weak projectiles.
Down - Small kick downwards, potentially a meteor but doesn't have much knockback by itself. Deals more damage than her other aerials.
Standard Attacks
Neutral - quick, short range 3-hit combo (Punch-Punch-Kick).
Side - Lunges forward, carrying Yuuka a short distance.
Up - Sweeps upwards with her umbrella in a wide angle and scatters petals around that linger for a moment and block weak projectiles, a more defensive move.
Down - Smiles menacingly. Highly damaged opponents flinch, starts to fail when used in succession.
Smash Attacks
Side - Wide sweep with her umbrella diagonally upwards. The sweeping is rather slow but the wind-up faster as a tradeoff. Maximum damage and knockback near the end. (meaning that it is usable to fend off enemies at close range but won't do much when used like that)
Up - Upward lunge. Fires the target straight up, doubles as a grab when fully charged by sending out vines with the punch. Charging only increases the damage of the attack, not the knockback.
Down - Vines sprout out of the ground a fixed distance to the left and right of her. Enemies caught are trapped in them, unable to move. When used at a ledge the vine will spawn at its bottom (or not at all if its bottomless).
Specials
Neutral - Beauty of Nature: Spins around with projectiles spiraling outwards. This is a melee-attack in close range, the projectiles dissipate after traveling far enough.
Side - Clouds over Moon, Wind on Flowers: Fires out a straight, thin laser that traps targets delivering multiple hits. Turns wider and becomes stronger the more damage Yuuka has taken.
Up - Phantastic Spring Flowers: Throws flowers into the air that slowly float to the ground. They deal damage on contact without any noticeable knockback. Should they land on the ground they create a small field of flowers.
When performed mid-air the flowers don't go up and are more spread out to the sides, allowing Yuuka to use them as one-use platforms to jump off of.
Down - Reflowering of Gensokyo: Creates a field of flowers at her feet. Can be charged for a bigger field. Can be charged mid-air but does nothing unless released while grounded.
Enemies near her during the creation become covered in petals that keep slowing them down for a while even after leaving.
Throws
Forward - Throws the target down on the ground a low distance before her, finishes by stomping the enemy once.
Reverse - Sends the opponent flying with a medium-high kick
Up - Covers the opponent in flowers and throws her upwards. The flowers stick for a moment dealing residual damage.
Down - Entangles the opponent in the same vines used in her down-smash.
Final Spell - Double Spark: Summons a clone that mirrors her movements and jumps back a fixed distance. They then both start to fire a Spark with infinite forward range each, one going upwards from the bottom, the other vice versa sweeping across the area.
Can be stopped during the startup (as in: while jumping backwards) but not once the attack has been started.
Alternate Final Word - Fragrant Nightmare: Yuuka begins to dance, causing a pink mist to appear on the ground. Enemies caught in this mist will fall asleep. At the end of Yuuka's dance, those asleep will be quickly dragged underground by roots and spat back up for massive damage.
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@ Kimidori, as much as I feel you are dragging this into wildly off-topic and unapplicable territory, I do feel that you deserve my explanation.
I am of the opinion that your assessment of —the anime style— is flawed under the pretense that "anime" doesn't mean the same thing in America as it does in Japan. Much like "otaku" doesn't either:
Otaku in Japan can be essentially anybody who obsesses over something. But in America, it refers to a specific kind of geek, a geek of the interest of Japanese comics, cartoons, games.
In the case of "anime." In the States it refers to a rather general art style mass produced in Japan that was originally inspired by Disney's characteristics. Hence why we can say that things like Mounty Oum's RWBY uses anime art, even though he is racially less Japanese then I am.
On the other hand, in Japan, "Manga" is the word for "Comic Book" and "Anime" is the word for "Animation." According to Japanese people, Batman, Spiderman, and Peanuts are Mangas, and My Little Pony, Toy Story, and Sponge Bob are "anime"
Under conditions like that, saying that they are "Japanese anime artists" doesn't seem to mean much more than "They are Illustrators geographically located in Japan."
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Now if we could put away that discussion perhaps for a topic later in the future, the real point of interest in terms of THIS GAMES development is improving the art style. So does the previous image look better on the right or left image?
I'm pretty good at taking following directions in terms of tweaks, Glass Wing was a very different game 40 days ago, but after taking into account all of the little details people were confused about, complaining about, or otherwise experiencing glitches, it winded up becoming a very polished work. The same can be said about this art direction. I as the artist have a HYPER limited viewpoint, it's up to you to steer me in the right direction.
HERE, tell me if the changes look better or worse —AND WHY— please:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2wr3exf.jpg
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RWBY style is not even the popular in japan FFS.
if you write off those artist as not anime, you are writing off people who have their manga adapted in anime as not anime, you are writing off people who have visual novel adapted in anime as not anime, you are are writing off majority of now airing and upcoming anime as not anime because most now airing and upcoming anime have different style from 5 years ago and from other airing anime
most people here and in the western anime fandom would all call the fanart, the artist I linked as drawn in anime style.
look at these and tell me that they are all the same in style (http://animefrontiers.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/summer-anime-2014-chart-v1-0-neregate.jpg)
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Yuuka Kazami
Nice moveset. Though does Yuuka have any recovery of the sort? Phantastic Spring Flowers doesn't seem to serve as a way for Yuuka to get back onto the stage.
Also, how's this for an alternate Final Word?
Fragrant Nightmare
-Yuuka begins to dance, causing a pink mist to appear on the ground. Enemies caught in this mist will fall asleep. At the end of Yuuka's dance, lightning will strike those who are asleep for massive damage.
@Saijee, edited with a rounded face looks MUCH better.
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I like this game idea!
Here's my contribution of ideas/suggestions for a stage and a character:
Stage: Different Sky
*Based off of SoEW's Extra Stage
*Fighters battle on a flat platform against a scrolling background made of strange purple tiles.
*Some of these tiles are stage hazards and will periodically open up to release a spray of danmaku at the combatants.
*Evil Eye Sigma occasionally appears as a "boss" stage hazard. (Like how Smash Bros. 4 is going to have "boss" characters such as Yellow Devil (http://youtu.be/fb35vh33Mb8?t=7s)as attackable stage hazards.) Evil Eye Sigma will fire danmaku and lasers at the combatants and swoops from one side of the stage to the other. The fighter who deals the finishing blow to Sigma causes it to explode spectacularly and can then use the explosion as an attack against the other combatants.
*Default BGM should be The Tank Girl's Dream (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-5YjFKoxD8) or some remix of it.
Character: Rika
*NOTE: Since Rika is pretty much the only character who doesn't fight using magic or natural abilities (she always fights with her constructs), I based her moveset on this fact.
Entrance: Flies in on Evil Eye Sigma and jumps off.
Icon: Wrench
Neutral Special: Danmaku Gun - Rika pulls out a weapon of her own design and fires weak danmaku projectiles from it.
Side Special: Wrench Toss - Tosses a wrench in the direction she's facing.
Up Special: Jump Jet - Rika activates jump jets of her own design that propel her upwards and damage combatants caught in the exhaust. Can be used as a recovery move.
Down Special: Trip Mine - Rika plants a charge on the ground that explodes into a small shower of danmaku when another combatant walks over it. The mine itself disappears in a few moments if nothing trips it.
Final Smash: Flower Tank - Rika summons the Flower Tank and pilots it for a short time. During this time the tank can be controlled and it behaves similarly to the Landmaster final smash from Brawl. (except instead of firing one projectile, it fires a spread of them.) Contact with the tank itself deals damage, direct hits from the projectiles cause massive knockback.
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tell me if the changes look better or worse
The changed eye shape definitely makes it look better. Rounder face also makes it look more child-like, which is good. What it needs now is some way to make it look less like a doll and more like a living thing. Try using more pronounced eyelids/eyeshadows perhaps?
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Nice moveset. Though does Yuuka have any recovery of the sort? Phantastic Spring Flowers doesn't seem to serve as a way for Yuuka to get back onto the stage.
Also, how's this for an alternate Final Word?
Fragrant Nightmare
-Yuuka begins to dance, causing a pink mist to appear on the ground. Enemies caught in this mist will fall asleep. At the end of Yuuka's dance, lightning will strike those who are asleep for massive damage.
Yuuka doesn't need recovery as nobody is capable of knocking her off-stage. I forgot about that. :V
The flowers from the up-special could be scattered to the side-below when performed while mid-air and serve as platforms for Yuuka to jump off of. It's iffy to use but so are the recoveries Ness and Lucas have.
They would act like little springs and disappear once jumping off of them. And she could float with her umbrella. Would go nicely with this kind of recovery.
About the alternate Last Word: It's a nice idea, but maybe have enemies caught in the mist dragged underground by roots and then spat back up, dealing the damage.
Lightning doesn't really seem to fit. (I assume you meant lightning striking from the sky)
HERE, tell me if the changes look better or worse ?AND WHY? please:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2wr3exf.jpg
Yes, with the rounder face it looks much more fitting. The eyes took up too much room before and her mouth looks less wide which is also a plus.
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Kimidori, if you have no concrete constructive criticism/suggestions to offer, maybe you should exit the thread for the night.
As it is, it just looks like you're digging your heels in over something you want to have an argument about. Consider taking the evening off.
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Nue
Entrance: Menacingly stomps out from a dark cloud
Icon: UFO
Neutral Special: Unknown Will O' Wisp
-Nue throws out a bouncing blue fireball. The fireball bounces across the ground as it travels. After three bounces, it will peter out.
Side Special: Flame Thrust
-Nue thrusts forth with her trident, cloaked in blue flames. When she strikes her target with the first blow, she will strike again with an upward blow to throw the enemy airborne.
Up Special: UFO
-Nue hitches a ride on a UFO of a varying color (red, blue or green) that rises slowly at a limited height before it disappears.
Down Special: Undefined Darkness
-A counter move where Nue covers herself with a dark cloud. If she is attacked, the cloud with dissipate and Nue will retaliate with a flaming punch.
Final Word: Rainbow Invasion
-With a flash of dark smoke, Nue vanished as the stage goes dim. Clouds loom over as UFOs begin to appear and fire at enemies. Each UFO is of a different color and behaves differently. Blue UFOs zip around firing weak homing lasers, green UFOs float over an area to fire thick lasers straight down and red UFOs fire concentrated bullets, that explode upon contact with the stage or an opponent, and quickly retreat. After the onslaught, Nue reappears on the stage.
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Don't worry about Kimidori, I PMed him.
Anyway, regarding the eyelid fold and eye shadow, I'll get to details like that later, right now the only modifications I'm doing are of changing the 3D model's geometry, when I get to retexturing all of the characters I'll make sure that I get to that.
For now, though are there anything otherwise that you would like to see to further improve Flandre? Here is some changes I made on Remilia:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2qitma1.jpg)
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Rounded faces look so much better, I don't see children with sharp facial features normally so rounding the "child like" characters makes it look good too. As a request would it be possible to show off a one of the expressions when you show these off? I feel that maybe people might still talk about the emotionless face instead of taking that it's the base model, ya know, just to see how it looks when in action.
Other then that... I'm not sure if Remilia's legs are either too large or what not. When I compare them to her arms they are bigger.
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The changed eye shape definitely makes it look better. Rounder face also makes it look more child-like, which is good. What it needs now is some way to make it look less like a doll and more like a living thing. Try using more pronounced eyelids/eyeshadows perhaps?
I tried adding some slight blush to the cheeks, and shading the top of the irises in black. On one side I also extended the eyelash and added a small eyelid wrinkle.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd54/Prime32_temp/Modified/Saijee_flandre_MOD_zps04ac9b1b.png)
Granted, Flandre is one of the characters least likely to have a healthy complexion, and there's a valid argument to be had for making her eyes look deliberately weird or even slitted. :V But I figure any added detail to the eyes would help - if not this kind of shading then a golden starbust around the pupil could work.
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Is that how the wild Flandre multiplies? (Looking at that in process mitosis with the arm)
Could I ask you to try and get that eye texture made to fit this texture:
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/2wnbq6v.jpg)
(You don't have to follow any guidelines other than the radius of the big circle)
Because that would be just swimmingly.
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Is that one on the right the 'updated' one? I really like it, personally. Like, I think it looks awesome and I personally think the adjustments to the eyes, specifically the coloring of the pupils/iris/whatever it's called, that's really helping the facial model.
Other then that... I'm not sure if Remilia's legs are either too large or what not. When I compare them to her arms they are bigger.
Yeah...her legs seem kinda...fat? It's possible it's the angle of the model and it looks fine from other angles but she seems to have some hefty legs.
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Could I ask you to try and get that eye texture made to fit this texture:
Something like this I guess?
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd54/Prime32_temp/Rough/Saijee_Smashou_eyeTex_zpsdc5fc386.png)
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This is what happens when I am given solid constructive crit:
So far this is what it looks like. As said before, when I get to retexturing, eye lid line and eye shadow will be added acordingly, apart from that, anything else for flan?
(http://i61.tinypic.com/295z6kz.jpg)
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Hm, didn't realise the edge of the pupil would be that visible. This might be an improvement:
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd54/Prime32_temp/Rough/Saijee_Smashou_eyeTex_zps30b8def5.png)
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I'll let you be the judge of that:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/okpgg8.jpg)
Also how is this for Remilia? Legs are a bit thinner
(http://oi58.tinypic.com/6pry8h.jpg)
Oh cirno too:
Click here for full
http://oi60.tinypic.com/30lp9g5.jpg
otherwise:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2hcmfbt.jpg)
Rumia has less of an alteration.
(http://oi62.tinypic.com/aayp05.jpg)
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The legs do look better for Remi, but I do see the same things for Cirno, the calf muscle seems a bit to large for child characters, I looked at the others from before and they look fine for teen - adult characters.
Example: (http://puu.sh/9ot4E/3e37659b9e.png)
Also the circled area, is that from the texture being stretched?
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I'll see what I can do, But don't worry about the texture streach, like I said before the models are going to be re UV mapped and re textured.
Here is them all side by side for those of you wondering about height comparisons.
(http://oi60.tinypic.com/2vkf6zr.jpg)
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I'd imagine them all being about the same height.
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That was an option, but I decided to go another way. They are all, still however, shorter then Marisa and Reimu.
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That was an option, but I decided to go another way. They are all, still however, shorter then Marisa and Reimu.
Well yeah, but I never really imagined Cirno and Rumia being any taller than Remilia. In fact I think Cirno is slightly shorter than Remilia. Though with that said, we're gonna have to figure out character sizes eventually.
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Then that would mean that Flandre is pretty short. Well first maybe we ought to figure out what to finish first, like a short time goal. Since your the one all the hard work what do you want to finish up first Saijee?
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Well yeah, but I never really imagined Cirno and Rumia being any taller than Remilia. In fact I think Cirno is slightly shorter than Remilia. Though with that said, we're gonna have to figure out character sizes eventually.
Pretty sure that Cirno was smaller than Remilia in the fighters (and that fairies in general are smaller than anyone who isn't Sukuna), though her effective height was a little higher since she was always floating. While Flandre being shorter than Remi is one thing, right now the height difference between them seems a bit much.
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Okay, want an example of better-looking eyes? Make them look like the ones found on realistic SSB characters, like these:
(http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/zelda/screen-3.jpg)
(http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/zerosuit_samus/screen-1.jpg)
(http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/palutena/screen-6.jpg)
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I have seen the heights that you are talking about before. But I've also seen a bunch of other takes on the heights of Touhou characters. Yes in the fighting games Cirno is miniature, but I feel like that's just another interpretation, just as good as anybody else's really. I'm not the only one who seperated the heights of the Scarlets, and I'm not the only one who imagined Cirno to be taller then them. I will grant you that it is more popular for them to be depicted at more similar heights, but it's really all up to interpretation. For example:
(http://oi62.tinypic.com/15x7t3b.jpg)
FYI, I am not basing the heights off of Touhouvania, I just remember that when I played that game Cirno was definably taller then Remilia, and using that as an example of artistically depicting the less popular imagination has been successfully done before.
@ Colticide, I'm pretty sure that my current goal right now is to, at least fix all of the faces of the TH models I have on hand currently, it's a good way to make sure that I'll be able to make the games playable characters not ugly. And that's important right? I guess I'm not there yet , maybe, seeing as how Game2011 seems to have something to say.
@ Game2011, Where have you been? As you can see from the images above, I'm working on it. Now I'm not going to say that I think my models are any where near as good as Smash Bros Wii U, but that is just now how this works, have you even been keeping up with the development of the graphics for this game? :
You are giving me a picture and say "do this." The thing is I as an artist have a very limited and highly biased point of view regarding my depictions. You as a viewer on the other hand have a much different perspective on things.
I could say "I think my models' faces are looking pretty close to SSBU" (I'm not, but I could) and you could respond to that "No they don't, yours look much worse"
But that would be counterproductive and I still wouldn't know what you want.
If that is where you want me to end up, tell me where to go from where I stand right now. Prime32 has been a perfect example of the how to get me to do what you want me to do.
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I have seen the heights that you are talking about before. But I've also seen a bunch of other takes on the heights of Touhou characters. Yes in the fighting games Cirno is miniature, but I feel like that's just another interpretation, just as good as anybody else's really.
Except those are official games as opposed to fan interpretations. Cirno is very short when portrayed in official material, as is Rumia. Koumajou Densetsu (Touhouvania) is in no way related to the canon material; ergo it is an unreasonable source when it comes to determining character size.
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Like I said, I'm not using Touhouvania as a source, I have my own reasons for doing things the way I do.
It just so happens that they came to similar answers. And it certainly was OK for them to go with their decisions.
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Like I said, I'm not using Touhouvania as a source, I have my own reasons for doing things the way I do.
I know, but it seemed like you were trying to justify making Cirno taller by using Koumajou Densetsu as an example.
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I am, but not that way.
The point I'm making is that character heights, appearances, and depiction are very flexibly up to interpretation.
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The point I'm making is that character heights, appearances, and depiction are very flexibly up to interpretation.
To an extent, but not entirely. Otherwise, you'd just be ignoring the source material.
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I don't really see the problem there.
Even the source material is not always consistent.
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Except those are official games as opposed to fan interpretations. Cirno is very short when portrayed in official material, as is Rumia. Koumajou Densetsu (Touhouvania) is in no way related to the canon material; ergo it is an unreasonable source when it comes to determining character size.
Fairies in the manga tend to be really small (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/51352/touhou-sangetsusei-oriental-sacred-place_v1_ch3_by_umad-scans/12), and Cirno is a little shorter than Sunny. Forbidden Scrollery makes it even more pronounced, where Remilia looks maybe 8-10 (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/168626/touhou-suzunaan-forbidden-scrollery_v2_ch6_by_no-group/9) but fairies look like toddlers (http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/3/3c/FS_Three_Fairies_of_Light.jpg). PMiSS says that in general the tallest fairies look like 9-year-olds while the smallest can fit in the palm of your hand (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Fairy).
EDIT: For reference, an official height chart from ZUN around the time of PCB (meaning it predates the PMiSS comment):
Tall (16+): Sakuya, Meiling, Yukari
Fairly Tall: Reimu, Yuyuko, Alice, Letty, Ran
Fairly Short: Marisa, Youmu, Patchouli, Lunasa, Merlin
Short (10+): Remilia, Lyrica, Chen, Cirno, Rumia, Flandre
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I don't really see the problem there.
Even the source material is not always consistent.
Sorry, I've just never really envisioned Cirno being that tall, at least not as tall as Remilia. At best, she's portrayed as being about as tall as a young child. Same with Rumia.
And I don't think the source material is inconsistent with size so much as character detail (like Alice's backstory retconning Shiki for instance).
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I am kinda the opposite, before she appeared in the fighting games, it was very unclear what Cirno's height could be, I also recall quite a number of different people making SWR styled sprites of Cirno with every single one of them winding up a huge overestimation when Tasfro came out with the final sprite sheet.
When I saw the sprites I was surprised enough to reject the idea that she was *that* short, I'm not alone with that notion, but it has become an increasingly minority opinion.
After some measurements and calculations: my depiction of Flandre stands at 4' 2" which put's her at a maturity age of around 8. And my depiction of Cirno stands at close to exactly 5' putting her at a maturity age of around 11.
But anyway, this kinda goes back to what I was saying a few pages back (though on style at that point more than differences in general) a big part of what fascinates me with Touhou is it's mythos like feature of being able to be interpreted in a wide plethora of variations that allow for many interesting reconstructions.
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Perhaps it's pointless to go on with this debate any further. Seems you're adamant on making Cirno and Rumia tall regardless of adequate source material. We'll just go in circles anyway. Forget it, carry on.
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No offense, but your 3d art is really amateur. If you really can't tell the difference between yours and the SSB screenshots posted on this thread, then unfortunately I don't think you can attain a decent level of graphic quality on this game, as Glass Wing didn't. However, I'm going to try and point out things you could do to improve it so people stop bashing you.
1. Faces
Like Kimidori said (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16954.msg1103331.html#msg1103331), the faces are extremely awkward and somewhat unpleasant to look at. And this problem happens mainly due to the way you modelled the mouth and the eyes. You tried to make a realistic mouth, but anime-styled eyes, resulting in a huge discrepancy of style, thus, looking bad and making your character look like a retard. In your Nitori 3d model (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/356/2/0/nitori_model_by_saijeehiguchi-d6yzjmm.png), this problem is clearly visible: in the front vision, Nitori looks like every other character you did (bad), but in the last picture the face looks perfectly okay, because you can't see the eyes very well. You either need to make more realistic eyes or make the entire face look more anime-like to match the style of the eyes. You should also stop reusing the same face for every character. Changing small details like lips size and width won't work. Different characters have different appearances, facial traits, skin color and whatnot, and you DEFINITELY SHOULD NOT do what you're doing (http://i.imgur.com/ho7EIKt.jpg) (the green boxes have the exact same size, by the way), especially when the base model looks that bad.
2. Textures
Your models lacks a lot in texture detail, in every part of it. Of course there are exceptions (some parts of Rumia's clothing, although it doesn't look like Rumia at all), but the majority of your characters dresses are devoid of any detail and depth. An example of that is Tenshi or Remilia: her shoes look like decals applied to her legs, her sash looks distorted in a strange way, and I can't describe what the hair looks like, but it definitely doesn't look like hair. You should work a lot on texture colors and UV mapping. Also consider using different Materials and Shaders for each part, because both the clothing and face looks like plastic, or a really generic 3d material.
3. Anatomy
Flandre looks like a mix between a halfling and a dwarf from Dungeons & Dragons. Even if you say the sizes of the characters are up to interpretation and/or base it out of Touhouvania sprites, you shouldn't ignore the common sense and the original source reference. Even from EoSD portraits, it's clear that Rumia, Cirno, Remilia and Flandre have almost the same height - Remilia is also only 5 years older than Flandre, and there's a huge discrepancy between their heights, considering their similarity. Cirno is a fairy, she's definitely small, no matter how you look at it. If you still deny my point, try looking at several other sources, like Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red or Perfect Memento in Strict Sense. Also note that some body parts are too broad or slim compared to the rest of the body.
Aaand that's it. Please don't take it personally.
What engine are you using for the game? I'd like to throw in some critique based on what I've seen on Glass Wing, but I'd like to sort out the 3d model thing first.
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I never said I can't tell the differences between this and Smash, I was framing the point that saying "Make it look like this" is not helpful. If you want me to make it look like that, tell me what I need to do to do that. I even said:
Now I'm not going to say that I think my models are any where near as good as Smash Bros Wii U
Because you are right, they aren't and I know that.
Re faces: Telling me what I shouldn't do is a step, but it is not nearly as helpful as suggestion what I should be doing.
Re Textures: I already said that the models will be re UV mapped and retexutred several times.
Re Anatomy: Again, turning off flashlights in a dark room that don't lead the right way doesn't do enough to point me in the right direction.
But hey, I think I've been doing a pretty good job at responding to the suggestions to adjust the faces so far.
And to answer your question, this game will be made using Unity 3D.
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I don't feel like I should need to say this but it has apparently been something that comes off the wrong way for a lot of people. I do not take offense in any comments to the artwork, because I understand that I am not my artwork. I also understand it is very very far from perfect, but that's why it's being discussed right now, isn't it? So it can improve.
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All I can do is tell if a thing is good or bad, and why it's good or bad.
Unfortunately I don't have a magic word that'll make you do better as soon as you read it. I've pointed out why it looks weird and what you shouldn't be doing if you want it to stop becoming weird. Maybe you should grab high quality models and watch tutorials (or something like this) on how they are done, then practice on your own?
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Practice does not make perfect, practice and modification in the right direction does. Like I've been saying for a while, showing an ideal is not the same as getting to it, and it certainly doesn't help.
At least tell me what your point is with the image of the green boxes. What am I doing that I shouldn't be doing?
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Practice does not make perfect, practice and modification in the right direction does. Like I've been saying for a while, showing an ideal is not the same as getting to it, and it certainly doesn't help.
Showing an ideal does help a lot. How are people supposed to improve if seeing a better result doesn't help? Is up to you to practice and modify in the right direction to improve and attain the desired goal. However, you're asking for help to improve your 3d skills in a Touhou forum. Maybe there are a few people who can help you, but this definitely not the right and/or best place for it, mind you.
At least tell me what your point is with the image of the green boxes. What am I doing that I shouldn't be doing?
Copying the model and not adjusting the head size accordingly to the character's overall size.
I mean, copying a model over and over is bad enough, but it's ok if they doesn't look like they are copied. You should be using some reference and modelling each character independently so they actually look like different characters.
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It does not help out because of the limited point of view that an artist can have. And no I am not asking you to help me improve my 3D skills. As I was saying, I am personally quite content with my 3D skills. It's just that people like you and others are not satisfied with how it looks, As has been shown with the adjustments to Flandre, you could almost say that I am currently in service to the people here who want the Touhou Smash game. I do not seek improvement, I only invite it.
The head model is actually not the same geometry, the way the faces where done was that a while back when I first made these models there was a base head that I had put on to all the characters, but then made some adjustments for mutations on facial features, then came these recent days where I've been modifying them individually based on the constructive criticism I get. But nothing has been copied and pasted for months.
Look, I'm only going to delv on figuring out this stylization thing for this game till Sunday, so if you would like to see it better in your eyes, I'm willing to put in as much effort as you are willing to detail.
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---accidental double post.
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We really need to stop the hate guys, I really hate trying to read it to get caught up on what happened during the day.
First I'd like to say is that this game isn't even in the Alpha stages yet, it's still on the character development. Fine tuning the characters and textures are something that should be done the in the middle or near the end. It's good to want to make your game look good but that is a issue a lot of indie devs do that I find bad. Since their game is being shown to the public they try to make it look good and then the game suffers in the bugs department. This will make me sound like a old man but back in the day you never had 3d models fully finished, fist you'd get the base model and work on other things like hit detection/animation and other things (I forget at this time).
In terms of art and the cannon sizes and look, it really shouldn't matter. I've seen plenty of artist that make Cirno older or Remilia taller and they can work if everything flows the same in the style it's made in. As was said the textures will be coming later (which it should, no sense spending all that time on the textures and find out that character size needs to change and then redo all the textures.) but what we can try to do is make improvements where we can. I have no modeling experience (except for a single sphere, yay.) so going into detail on what the faces need to change is out of my reach but those who do have experience should be able to provide details on how to change it. It's good to know what not to do, but for me when I do sigs and avatars knowing what not to do doesn't help, it just creates more of a roadblock since I have no idea where to start. And Looking at other models won't help very much, again either you won't make progress by looking at them or you will end up making the models too much like them.
OK long post sorry everyone. Working from a base model shouldn't be a problem, what do most artist do when they start drawing a face? A circle, which is the base for the face. So lets kinda calm down a bit and focuse on how we can improve the models instead of saying you shouldn't do this or that.
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I'm not really detecting hate as much as civil impasse. Yes I will take my artistic licenses when constructing character height, the whole reason I posted those characters to compare heights was never for open input, rather I was using it as an explanation for Cirno's leg shape being less child like. If that wasn't clear, then I am sorry about that, as it could have been avoided.
The current discussion is about the faces, I can tell from the amount of text all of you put in on your posts how much it means to you, As I've said before, I have always been content with how they are: Were it just up to me, I would find no issue in just leaving them the way they were when I first showed you them. But since so many people were striking it, I felt it reasonable to give you guys the power to control how I edit them to YOUR liking.
Slightly off topic, but perhaps the reason why something that is so clearly ugly to you, while I am left confused at what exactly you want me to do is because I'm the kind of person who appreciates ZUNart, or the crude drawings and sprites from the horror game Ib. In regards to how the faces look, tell me to do something, ANYTHING, and I will do my best to render you an edit as you describe.
(http://oi62.tinypic.com/w1bwbm.jpg)
Tell me what to do with description or if you feel like it, edit the image to give me a better idea. And no, posting something like this will NOT help me: http://oi58.tinypic.com/30wts8i.jpg
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(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s388/BrawlerKyouma/Touhou/Konngara/01_zps059b2f9d.png)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae50/Shingyoku/Touhou%2014/Wakasagihime/wakasagihime2_zpsdc452f1b.png)
pretty nice quality, too bad theire MMD models which "cant be used" on this, its a shame, this seemed like an interesting project
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pretty nice quality, too bad theire MMD models which "cant be used" on this, its a shame, this seemed like an interesting project
There is no need to act like that, I can respect the effort to make your own assets for the game instead of using someone else hard work. Also if we got a touhou smash bros game with the MMD models then what would be the point in the mods for brawl then?
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Hey Kyouma, if you want to see your -- oh wait, that's right, they aren't yours, my mistake, erm, those imported MMD models in a Touhou Smash Bros fan game, why don't you just make your own game, along side this one? See what happens, make a better game then me, then we'll talk.
But in all seriousness, using MMD's is not up for debate. The way that you all want me to edit the faces is.
The sad part is that you show such a strong desire to see this game be more then what you can see out of it now, I've given you the power to help shape this game by virtue that I am making more of an unnecessary effort to act on your commands for the editing development of these character faces. And yet you make no effort to utilize that power to an effect of desired result.
----Edit---
Since nobody's suggesting anything, I've gotten all the current available models their head to body ratio adjustments as well as used the new eye texture:
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/162/c/b/touhou_faces_by_saijeehiguchi-d7m0zrc.png
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Well, Flandre and Remilia look really great. Rumia is good as well. Cirno, though, could have some improvements.
1) As far as I know, Cirno isn't supposed to look like a teenager. She is supposed to look like a child. Also, she isn't supposed to have breasts (by the way, Rumia suffers from this as well).
2) Icicles (the ones forming her wings) aren't supposed to levitate somewhere away from her back, because really, wings floating somewhere away are quite useless.
3) Ribbon on her head isn't supposed to be angled downwards. It's supposed to show above her head. Could be bigger too.
Color of her hair is also debatable, since she had grayish blue hair since Fairy Wars and light blue hair in portraits before this game. In fact, she had this dark blue hair only in EoSD's battle sprites.
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I still think going for a more cartoonish look would be much better, while still retaining some realism. For a Smash game, we need something a bit more colorful. Skyward Sword is probably a good example.
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Two things.
First of all, this thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12703.msg856849.html#msg856849) might help you out. Not sure if you can gain any insight from that.
Second, why are you asking about the look of your game here? It seems to me that this is an art issue, so why not take it to the art forum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/board,25.0.html)?
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Again "asking" is the wrong way of framing this.
I am perfectly content with the way the art looks right now (I was also content with the way it was when I started this), but there have been a number of people here who ranged from creeped out by it to allergic to it. So until Sunday, I'm allowing people to inform the way that I edit these character's faces so as to form the style that this game will wind up with, so long as the suggestions are specific rather then general (as the likes of Prime32 and Colticide have been ever so cooperative with).
As I've said before:
I do not seek improvement, I only invite it.
That all said, since I am not the one who thinks that the art looks fugly, since I am not asking about the look of my game but simply listening in on it, I don't see any reason why I should need to make a topic in the art forum.
@ Savory, thanks. I'm still not sure where to begin in terms of what that should mean for any of these character face models in particular. But thanks.
Just another general message to everybody: If you don't like the way the art style looks right now, that is your problem not mine. If, when this game is finished, and you still don't like the final art style bu didn't make suggestions, don't blame me, I gave you a chance to adjust it to your liking right here and now.
@Searinox, out of curiosity, you are basing your suggestions off of accuracy to the original designs, right?
Here are some other designs that other people have made for Cirno that follow a lot of the same artistic licenses for the design I do.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/099/b/8/touhou___cirno_by_paperjoey-d4vl4oi.png
http://hqwallbase.com/images/big/rei_cirno-1521663.jpg
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I've been going over a few things and I think MMD models might be your best bet. Try checking out some Touhou MMD videos on Youtube or look some up on Google. Even if you don't want to use the models exactly, you can still use them for references. One thing that does bother me about your models is the clothing. And a lot of MMD models do justice with that.
Here are some other designs that other people have made for Cirno that follow a lot of the same artistic licenses for the design I do.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/099/b/8/touhou___cirno_by_paperjoey-d4vl4oi.png
http://hqwallbase.com/images/big/rei_cirno-1521663.jpg
So you're still going on that angle, huh? I still think you should use canon material to determine size instead of trying to use fan interpretation to justify it.
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I believe that touhou fan art would be a lot more rudimentary and boring if everyone conglomeration decided to uphold an unstated dedication to the source material rather than celebrate the magnitude of allowece with artistic license for personal expression.
One could say that these are perversions of Touhou characters, but so what if they are? I personally cannot shake the opinion that they are ultimately very neat designs.
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/2551ab9.jpg)(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/089/8/0/Touhou__Hong_Meiling_by_linistic.jpg)(http://www.wall321.com/thumbnails/detail/20120914/pants%20touhou%20guns%20belts%20weapons%20animal%20ears%20red%20eyes%20short%20hair%20masks%20white%20hair%20inubashiri%20momiji%20b_www.wall321.com_48.jpg)
Anyway, Sakuya is going to be the first character made, so I've been making some adjustments to her model, if anyone has anything to say, say it now, this is what I did earlier today:
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/163/c/e/changing_faces_by_saijeehiguchi-d7m3o2x.gif)
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Please stop suggesting a switch to MMD models. That's already out of the question and it's just derailing the thread even further. Smash messes with canon as well. As long as the outfits are made with consideration for the character's personality, it's fine. The ONLY design I would mess with is Rumia, assuming she uses her silly "arms outstretched" stance. The reason why we consider that look iconic for Rumia is because it reflects her childish personality. That just doesn't work well with her model's skirt, both because it has a more mature look to it, and because the silhouette would be really different. There are other characters where creative liberties like that can be taken, but big and wide skirt is the way to go for Rumia IMO.
Anyways, I really feel that your presentation for WIPs is hindering you here Saijee. The way Tenshi and Sakuya look in the first post is actually pretty good! I understand that a neutral pose and expression might be the best way to show every detail of the model at once, but it also doesn't convey as well to non-artists what the character will look like in-game. The neutral expression in particular is really off-putting at times... If you look back at the Smash Brothers examples that game2011 posted (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16954.msg1103642.html#msg1103642), you should note a few things:
1) Even when characters like Zelda and Palutena are in an idle pose, they have an expression that reflects their personality. Zelda has a somber expression most of the time (does she ever even smile in the game?) and Palutena looks halfway between nurturing and condescending, which is perfect for a god who is lowering herself to fight among mortals. This is a CRUCIAL part of differentiating your characters. Truthfully, this isn't something that ZUN excels at in Touhou canon either, but you can see hints of it when you compare say, Kanako to Byakuren.
2) The facial features have variable shapes and angles, not just sizes. Link has extremely angular eyebrows and a rounded nose, conveying that he's a youthful and determined character. ZSS's expression is more relaxed, showing that she's a fighter who's calm under pressure. The shape of the face itself also matters: Peach's design, face included, features a lot of roundness. What do you do think that conveys compared to Zelda, who has slimmer and sharper elements to her design?
I don't think Touhou characters need unique expressions to the same extent, but when you post expressionless previews, you're drawing attention to that lack of personality. When I visualize how a character should look, I see not just their design, but their expression, and that's probably where half of your criticism is coming from! The models don't need a huge fundamental change, but small tweaks to give the more character would help alongside more expressive previews.
Sorry, if this isn't of any help to you, since I don't work with 3D at all, I just have a lot of interest in character design in general. I hope you can see that I'm not just saying "look at Smash Bros, do that" but rather "look at these elements that made Smash Bros. look good, and see where you are lacking them in your own work". Best of luck, and I might post a moveset or two later when I'm feeling inspired!
(I see you posted while I was typing, but yeah the new Sakuya is better, I'd just rather be seeing her in "determined maid" mode, heh)
EDIT:
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/c01c2c3a6f1de828d83aa106f843386c/tumblr_n5t8iu8qqQ1r7rwrmo8_1280.png)
Here's a nice example by the famous Captainski (http://sinkerghost.co.vu/post/86215749515/full-image-not-annotated-annotated-remember) of Touhous with lots of facial differentiation while still having a consistent style.
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Sorry, Saijee. I wasn't trying to pressure you into using MMD models; I was just suggesting that you use them for reference.
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(http://oi62.tinypic.com/aayp05.jpg)
Please stop suggesting a switch to MMD models. That's already out of the question and it's just derailing the thread even further. Smash messes with canon as well. As long as the outfits are made with consideration for the character's personality, it's fine. The ONLY design I would mess with is Rumia, assuming she uses her silly "arms outstretched" stance. The reason why we consider that look iconic for Rumia is because it reflects her childish personality. That just doesn't work well with her model's skirt, both because it has a more mature look to it, and because the silhouette would be really different. There are other characters where creative liberties like that can be taken, but big and wide skirt is the way to go for Rumia IMO.
I'm going to agree that Rumia is barely recognisable here - if you swapped the colours I'd have mistaken her for Raiko. Rumia's supposed to be a dimwitted, near harmless child with not a care in the world. The outfit you gave her calls to mind an office worker (implying high intelligence/competence, or at least literacy) and a biker (implying badassery), is unusually complex (implying that she takes great care of her appearance) and is designed to show off her legs (implying sexual awareness).
Rumia really needs the pinafore dress to work. If you want to make her design stand out from the other EoSD characters I guess you could pleat it or something?
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As long as the outfits are made with consideration for the character's personality, it's fine. The ONLY design I would mess with is Rumia, assuming she uses her silly "arms outstretched" stance. The reason why we consider that look iconic for Rumia is because it reflects her childish personality. That just doesn't work well with her model's skirt, both because it has a more mature look to it, and because the silhouette would be really different. There are other characters where creative liberties like that can be taken, but big and wide skirt is the way to go for Rumia IMO.
Anyways, I really feel that your presentation for WIPs is hindering you here Saijee. The way Tenshi and Sakuya look in the first post is actually pretty good! I understand that a neutral pose and expression might be the best way to show every detail of the model at once, but it also doesn't convey as well to non-artists what the character will look like in-game. The neutral expression in particular is really off-putting at times...
I don't think Touhou characters need unique expressions to the same extent, but when you post expressionless previews, you're drawing attention to that lack of personality. When I visualize how a character should look, I see not just their design, but their expression, and that's probably where half of your criticism is coming from! The models don't need a huge fundamental change, but small tweaks to give the more character would help alongside more expressive previews.
Sorry, if this isn't of any help to you, since I don't work with 3D at all, I just have a lot of interest in character design in general. I hope you can see that I'm not just saying "look at Smash Bros, do that" but rather "look at these elements that made Smash Bros. look good, and see where you are lacking them in your own work". Best of luck, and I might post a moveset or two later when I'm feeling inspired!
I would wholly agree with this. I haven't had much looked at Rumia before but I would say give her a bigger dress. A few reason if I may. I thought about what makes Rumia... well Rumia and see a trend with all of the pictures I found, I also tried to find ones where she wasn't wearing her normal outfit too what made her look like Rumia. A few facts are her color scheme, Did this reel quick with what I see as rumia to show an example of her color scheme. (http://puu.sh/9r2eg/53522e8ac8.png)
I hope that looks like rumia for people or else this'll get awkward. The main focus I wanted from this is the main colors she had and in which order, yellow on top with a side of red and black in the main and white where it counts. I'd say your model has that fine but a common things a lot of fanart has is the ribbon in her hair is bigger and more pronounced, The skirt really should be bigger, a few cosplays I've seen where the skirt is flat changes it dramatically, and the most important thing I find is she need to smile... like a big smile! The one you used in an old image shows her as either she or depressed, change that up along with the dress and I'm sure she will look like Rumia more.
Here's an example of a Rumia Fanart with different clothes but a few things stay the same, The colors, the smile, the ribbon and her bowtie.
http://www.zerochan.net/987572 (http://www.zerochan.net/987572) (Might be NSFW... not really sure because of her hip.)
Also as CK Crash said, lets see the characters with more posing and emotions. (that fit their style anyway) Also quick question, why did you go with a full red color scheme for Koakuma?
I hope this can help, not really sure what else I can do.
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Not exactly facial style detail stuff, but this will give me something to do.
But if you guys want poses, updates will be much less frequent.
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It'll give a much better understanding on the over effect of the character and their body shape. A good example I once seen was where a 3d fighter was making the models for the game and tried out the moves and took notes on how the body works with the move and made changes based on the moves or the body of the character.
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You know, I think putting the whole cast of EoSD in the game isn't a good idea at all. It'd be fine if the roster were pretty big, but you said there will be a max of 20 characters on the final version, and if you put all of EoSD cast, it'll be a total of NINE characters from a single game taking away the spot of characters from other games.
There are many other interesting characters that deserves to be in the game more than boring, barely developed characters such as Daiyousei or Koakuma. I could name Udonge, Komachi, Eiki, Suwako, Yuugi, Orin, Murasa, Yoshika, Kagerou... and list goes on.
So I'd suggest taking out at least Rumia, Daiyousei and Koakuma from the roster. There are just too many EoSD chars.
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But if you guys want poses, updates will be much less frequent.
Less frequent updates is probably better than having updates that misrepresent how the models look.
Also quick question, why did you go with a full red color scheme for Koakuma?
Red scheme for Koakuma works IMO, maybe makes her a bit more distinct from Rumia too. I'm curious about the origin of the idea though.
Anywho, long rambly moveset for Reisen:
General style - A character that relies on a lot of misleading attacks, but has risky KO moves. Most comparable to Falco. She's also unusual among Touhou Smash characters in that only one of her smash attacks is a real projectile, but she makes up for it with deceptive melee range.
Quirks - Her ground roll is slower than average, but goes far (Mewtwo-ish range) and creates an illusionary clone that rolls in the opposite direction. Her grounded jump is actually really high compared to her double jump, and she falls faster than normal.
Neutral Attack - Three part chain that starts with two open-handed strikes and ends with a red spark that has a bit higher knockback. (2% 3% 4%)
Forward Strong - A swipe that creates a red spark in front of Reisen, with a nice disjointed hitbox for combos. (11%)
Down Strong - Shoots narrow eye beams at the floor. Very weak damage and knockback, but the duration can be extended for a brief time by holding the button. More for disrupting the enemy than for comboing. (5%)
Up Strong - Bunny hop headbutt. Kinda tall hitbox, but cruddy against grounded foes outside of comboing. (10%)
Forward Smash - Windup punch similar to Soku. She goes far forward if fully charged, but has awkward recovery on whiff or shield. Pretty meaty KO move that gets weaker towards the end. Actually plays a big role in mind games, as you will see later... (16-22%)
Down Smash - Shoots wide eye beams at the floor in a single flash, with Reisen's feet lifting off the ground from the recoil. Very fast on both startup and recovery, hitting multiple times before launching the enemy up. Only hits in front of her, unlike most Down Smashes, and is a bad KO move. (3x4% - 5x4%)
Up Smash - Fires a bullet upwards that makes a lingering explosion. Long charge time that controls how far the bullet goes before it explodes. Initial bullet can KO, lingering explosion just kind of juggles. (15-20%, 10%)
Grab - Reisen's eyes flash, "grabbing" the enemy by making them dizzy. Running dash has Reisen lunge awkwardly forward while her eyes flash. Both have relatively short range even for grabs, and average recovery on whiff.
Pummel - The enemy flashes with red sparks, seemingly damaged by the illusion. Slow with higher that average damage. (3%)
Forward Throw - Quickly tosses the enemy up at a 45 degree angle, and shoots 3 bullets quickly at them, similar to Fox's throws. Knockback doesn't really scale with damage. (4% + 3x2%)
Backward Throw - Grabs the enemy while a clone comes from behind and delivers a punch. Good knockback and damage for a throw, but Reisen is actually knocked backwards by the clone's hit, so it has some recovery that makes it dangerous if there are other enemies around or if the enemy bounces off a wall and recovers quickly. (12%)
Down Throw - Slams the enemy down with a red shattering effect a la Weak Heart "Demotivation". Good for setting up tech chase, but never KOs. (6%)
Up Throw - Like Forward Throw, but straight up. (4% + 3x2%)
Neutral Air - Generic kick that stays out a while. (12%)
Forward Air - Swipes in front with a red spark that causes her to recoil backwards during the recovery. Can KO weakened foes while they're recovering. (13%)
Backward Air - Horizontal dropkick that puts her in a sideways superman pose. Can be a good edgeguard, but hard to use more than once per jump. (12%)
Down Air - Her infamous somersault kick, minus the illusion. Slow startup and recovery, but has a meaty meteor smash hitbox, and enemies onstage will bounce up a bit. (13%)
Up Air - Upwards swing similar to Up Smash but less range and more for juggling than KO. (11%)
Neutral Special - "Illusion Round" - Fires 4 bullets from her fingers in quick succession that travel a little further than PK Fire range before disappearing. It must be reloaded before another use. Both the firing and the reloading are pretty quick, making this a good move for racking up damage. (4x3%)
Forward Special - "Disbelief Aspect" - A clone fakes the animation charging the forward smash while the real Reisen appears in the air a little ahead of where she started (similar to Wolf's trajectory with his Forward Special?). In the air, the clone fakes a double jump forward instead. Just for movement and mindgames. Can't be used twice without landing.
Down Special - "Wavelength Resonance" - A red ring originating from Reisen expands as long as the button is held, with a maximum size the same as a Smart Bomb's radius. When the button is released, everyone touching the ring takes damage and knockback proportional to the size of the ring making it ineffective to use in close quarters, but a potential KO move at max distance. If the button is held too long, the ring starts shrinking until it becomes a single point, creating a small but devastating explosion that almost certainly KOs foes at the cost of stunning Reisen as well. If used in the air, this move stalls Reisen's downwards momentum a bit, but she tumbles helplessly after releasing the attack. (5-25%)
Up Special - "Moon Rabbit Parade" - A whole bunch of bunnies spawn and carry Reisen up like Squirtle's waterfall. Does multiple hits and cruddy damage and knockback, but unlike similar moves, it sends enemies tumbling down rather carrying them up. Not quite a meteor smash, and risky above the stage, but can surprise recovering enemies. (4-6%)
Final Smash - "Lunatic Red Eyes" - After a windup, sends out waves that do big damage. Enemies hit by this remain stunned and in place, even if they're hit in midair. After a delay, the enemies are suddenly hit by powerful upwards knockback. Reisen has a brief opportunity to land extra hits on enemies while they're stunned but before they're blasted away, increasing the chance of a KO. A hidden advantage is that this final smash is hard to punish even if it misses. (30%)
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@ ☆ Synnae ☆ I'm not going to have all of EoSD as playable, but they will all appear in some shape or form in the game. These models were all actually made sometime near the end of 2013 for another project that I was going to do, but got too busy with.
But since I have the models I figure it's a good starting point for modeling characters. By the way, Utsuho is also going to appear in this game. But don't get your hopes up too high yet, I haven't yet decided if she is going to be in the roster of playable characters.
All red Little Devil? Hmmmm- If I remember correctly there was a fan art of this coloration and I thought it looked cool, so I used it too.
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@Searinox, out of curiosity, you are basing your suggestions off of accuracy to the original designs, right?
Here are some other designs that other people have made for Cirno that follow a lot of the same artistic licenses for the design I do.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/099/b/8/touhou___cirno_by_paperjoey-d4vl4oi.png
http://hqwallbase.com/images/big/rei_cirno-1521663.jpg
1) First picture is more in line with what I said - Cirno looks like a child, her ribbon is pretty good and her icicles are much closer to her back (sure, they aren't attached to her back, but at least they aren't floating far far away). Second one doesn't exactly looks like Cirno - I'm sure you can pass the person depicted here as a Final Fantasy mage by changing colors and removing icicles.
2) Somewhat, but those three were my personal suggestions. I'm willing to drop the details from the original designs if your variant works (such as, for example, hair color). And yes, I know you are basing your models off of fan interpretations (I'm already expecting Cho-Marisa and Mannosuke to show in the game, because they worked were appreciated by fans). Still, the only things distinguishing Cirno from others are (currently) colors and icicles. Change that - and you can probably pass her as somebody else.
If, when this game is finished, and you still don't like the final art style bu didn't make suggestions, don't blame me, I gave you a chance to adjust it to your liking right here and now.
Seeing as you repel all most suggestions by "Somebody had done the same thing I'm doing to my models now", this "chance" you provide is almost nonexistent.
(http://www.wall321.com/thumbnails/detail/20120914/pants%20touhou%20guns%20belts%20weapons%20animal%20ears%20red%20eyes%20short%20hair%20masks%20white%20hair%20inubashiri%20momiji%20b_www.wall321.com_48.jpg)
Who is the one depicted on this picture, anyway?
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But since I have the models I figure it's a good starting point for modeling characters. By the way, Utsuho is also going to appear in this game. But don't get your hopes up too high yet, I haven't yet decided if she is going to be in the roster of playable characters.
All red Little Devil? Hmmmm- If I remember correctly there was a fan art of this coloration and I thought it looked cool, so I used it too.
I could totally see Utsuho as a Samus like character!
Do you have a link to it or know how I could find it? I'd like to compare the two.
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I don't know.
Hey what do you know, I actually Favorited it on DA, though in retrospect, it does look a bit different then I remember:
http://saijeehiguchi.deviantart.com/art/Librarian-217149498
If I remember correctly, I was searching for an image of Koakuma where she only had wings on her head, it also needed to have an otherwise, different look to it then the original look.
Now that I think about it, I think that Rumia's design was actually also made that way, though I don't have the image for where that came from.
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OK I see it now, it looked odd at first but now that we have the reference it makes much more sense. Maybe down the ling when refining the models more you could make her skirt more "poofy" like in the art.
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This is the last day that anyone here has the chance to make suggestions for the graphics.
After getting my wisdom teeth removed, I remapped and re textured Sakuya's model:
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/166/9/2/touhou_super_smash_project__sakuya_by_saijeehiguchi-d7mim3u.png)
I'll get around to rigging it this week later.
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Look better at first (The face has improved by a lot.) but when I went to really look at it it seems there is just a gradient on everything.
Here is a image comparing the old and new. (http://puu.sh/9vjMe/e8e125233a.png)
I say keep the old hair and change the ribbon back, the new ones look like lasers. What are you using to make the textures? Is it a image that can be edited? (I'd like to try something if I may?)
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It's made on gimp.
Which ribbon by the way? The green one or the white one?
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Oh man, looks complicated for someone who hasn't worked with this stuff before. Thank you btw, I'd like to work on this just to get a better idea what you have to go through and I can explain things better. How did you know what parts to shade and lighten?
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How did you know what parts to shade and lighten?
I have a map of Sakuya's body.
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Hello! First I want to say I'm a 3d modeler and have 8 years of experience. I didn't came here to say "I work with it, then I'm better", I
just wanted to let you know that I know what I'm saying. I'll make a decent post about it, I don't have much time now.
I'll try to summarize everything that I think it can be changed.
1 - The models:
Please do not repeat the faces of the characters, each character has a different face as well as the expressions, which does not exist on these models
2 - The textures:
I think it is "ok" depending on the distance from the camera, BUT, remake ALL the UVW mapping, make textures with power of 2 (2x2, 128x128, 1024x1024, ...)
3 - You:
If you are making a game and asking for public opinions, you are asking for critique. Do not show your work if you do not want opinions on it, and if you show, learn to accept what they are talking about it and do not say "I'm happy with my skills" or "make a better game than my and we'll talk later".
Do not take it personally like you usually do. Everyone here is interested in the game and trying to help.
Like I said earlier, I'll make a post with better examples of what to do (and how).
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Sorry it took a bit to get back, just moved into my new place. The green ribbon does look better in the first one. But starting to feel like I ought to just let ya work on it and then see what needs fixed and refined.
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@ Kevinhag, Thanks but I'd like to inform you, like I've been repeating myself a number of times with every new person to respond on this topic:
I do not take offense in any remark toward anything that I do, nor I do not take any thing personally. It is true that there are things that are non negotiable, like not using MMDs, and not going anime style, and I decide how tall everybody is. But I have been changing things to the best of my understanding of what people were asking me to do. You see, there in lies the center of this all.
I am not asking for peoples' help, I am simply changing things according to how I am asked to. On my posts that I reply that you incorrectly read that I am "taking offense" I am not in-fact being defensive, but rather, bringing up the point that I do not comprehend a way to utilize the response that a lot of people give me to an effect that I can do to make the models better suit their personal outlook. I press for more information because there is a lack of it.
To further clarify things though, regarding this:
If you are making a game and asking for public opinions, you are asking for critique. Do not show your work if you do not want opinions on it, and if you show, learn to accept what they are talking about it
I feel like you are fundamentally looking at things backwards. There was no point where I was "asking" for public opinions or "asking" for critique. The story goes that one "Kyouma" hinted that he wanted me to use MMD models, to which I responded by showing that I am going to use my own models. From there people had between neutral and negative opinions of the look of things. My reaction was something simply like: "I'll be flexible to a point, but if you want me to change something, be specific on the details that bother you." And from there I think I've been quite consistent in doing things that people explain when they explain them in ways that are direct and useful when it comes to determining adjustments to the art style of this game.
and do not say "I'm happy with my skills"
I understand your outlook in this, but it simply is incongruent to mine. From my perspective: Why would anybody choose to NOT be happy with their own abilities, skills, and/or talents? Being able to appreciate your own output does not necessitate an inability to grow/learn further.
Like I said earlier though: I am happy with my skills and my output, I have a rather narcissist outlook on my work that allows me to be very optimistic about it. I do not seek improvement, I only invite it.
or "make a better game than my and we'll talk later".
That was more of a sarcastic joke regarding the usage of MMD models to make Touhou Fan games. Yes I admit it was mean spirited, but three things:
1) I had already explained to him in detail why MMD models were out of the question.
2) To this very post, Kyouma has yet to post information that legitimately contributes to the discussion of this topic.
3) It was in response to his smart-alec remark: "pretty nice quality, too bad theire MMD models which 'cant be used' on this, its a shame, this seemed like an interesting project"
1 - The models
I'd be interested in hearing the unsummerized version as I think it'd be much more useful.
2 - The textures
I think I already stated that that was part of the plan. And yea, I know about the powers of 2 rule, I've been making games for 9 years now.
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I would love it if the faces are more anime-like. They look kind of creepy, especially the eyes...
Sorry, but i have to agree.
Sakuya's face just looks like Link's.
I think the should be a bit less realistic. :derp:
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Each character has a different face as well as the expressions, which does not exist on these models.
I agree. Remember what I told you concerning making each character look unique from the other, Saijee. I suggest referring to the links I sent to those Skyward Sword models to see how each character is different while still keeping a set tone. I'll give some various base personalities and the characters that could fit them as an example.
Serious: A bold unwavering expression of a person ready for battle!
-Reimu, Alice, Youmu, Meiling, Reisen
Calm: A neutral expression; this person goes with the flow.
-Sakuya, Ran
Conceited: A haughty expression, classified by slightly drooping eyes and a smirk of pride, of someone who is confident in their abilities.
-Remilia, Yukari, Nue
Cheerful: A simple joyful expression; this person always has a smile, no matter what the day may bring.
-Sanae, Suwako, Mystia
Boisterous: The usual tomboyish expression with a large smile and bright eyes to boot.
-Marisa, Cirno, Nitori, Yuugi
Hostile: An intimidating expression. Is this person upset? You don't want to mess with them.
-Mokou
Confident: A tamer version of conceited, but there is still a little hint of arrogance.
-Aya, Tenshi, Miko, Futo
Blithe: The carefree expression of an individual with little to no worries in life.
-Yuyuko, Utusho, Suika, Mamizou, Komachi
Deadpan: Somewhat expressionless. Are they depressed, or...?
-Patchouli, Satori, Kokoro
Mischievous: A playful expression, but what is this person up to?
-Orin, Tewi
Hope this helps, if even a little.
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I suggest really reducing the bridge of the nose and get rid of the flared up nostrils, and as the others mentioned, you have to make sure their faces show their personality. Look at Hisoutensoku's sprites, MMD sprites, even fan artwork, usually depict a character's general personality. It may not seem necessary, but it will definitely affect how much the average gamer, who does not know how hard it is to make this stuff, appreciate ten-fold.
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Modeling characters with a neutral facial expression is a convention used to optimize the potential for getting their faces to be used for various expressions during animation.
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I for one like the model style. Feels very...I dunno, crisp? A good kinda crisp though, like in a potato chip.
Just putting in a little positive feedback is all :)
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Modeling characters with a neutral facial expression is a convention used to optimize the potential for getting their faces to be used for various expressions during animation.
Modeling characters with different starting expressions doesn't mean they're supposed to carry that expression through all of the animations. They can still change into something else. Putting poker face everywhere is just not a good idea.
I can see you're flipping off pretty much everyone that are giving you suggestions to improve the game. If you're going to keep such a defensive stance instead of being flexible, then what's the point of asking for public opinions? not trying to say that you're solid as rock, but from what I noticed so far, your flexibility is slight to non-existent, which is very restrictive and gives people few chances to work with you.
Maybe the best thing you can do is forget about this thread and work on your project by yourself.
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To be honest, I have no problems with the models, sure, maybe the faces look strange compared to some others models (MMD models, for example), but I find it more... I dunno, "unique" ? Which is good, in fact, I find it more interesting to make a game with resources from scratch instead of reusing resources from somewhere else...
As for characters, I think it would be rather interesting to see the Prismriver sisters, not the 3 at the same times, it would probably be hard to code the AI, but maybe with a "switch", kinda like the Pokemon Trainer in Brawl, in this case, they could have moves based on their instruments and different stats depending of the character (one being based on speed, one being based one powerful attacks and knock back and the last one being balanced)
I don't have any particular idea for the moveset, but I could probably think of some (and their Final Smash could be all of them performing their theme while shooting notes on the stage, Yellow for Lunasa, Purple for Merlin and red for Lyrica, the notes could have different effect on others players, Stun / Poison / Fire damage)
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I can see you're flipping off pretty much everyone that are giving you suggestions to improve the game. If you're going to keep such a defensive stance instead of being flexible, then what's the point of asking for public opinions? not trying to say that you're solid as rock, but from what I noticed so far, your flexibility is slight to non-existent, which is very restrictive and gives people few chances to work with you.
Maybe the best thing you can do is forget about this thread and work on your project by yourself.
^This
What's the point of making this public if you won't take any form of suggestion on something, sure you are on moves and such, but when we're trying to help improve your game's quality, you're just giving us a "fuck you." It's a general consensus here that your models are in need of improvement, but you're blowing it all off. Most of us here want to help our fellow coders/game designers, but only if they're willing to communicate and take suggestions and criticism into consideration. If you can't do that, you might as well abandon this thread and ask a moderator to lock it.
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I think everybody need to cool down their heads for a moment and take a few steps back. Have some tea, eat some cake and consider whether your actions are in check with RikaNitori's board rules (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6181.0.html).
I'm going to actually approach from a different side and ask a very curious question which everybody seems to have forgotten: Is there anything actually created for this game aside from the models/textures and 5 pages of posts?
Curious, as majority of the fan games somehow take a reverse route of development, eventually ending up nowhere.
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I'm going to actually approach from a different side and ask a very curious question which everybody seems to have forgotten: Is there anything actually created for this game aside from the models/textures and 5 pages of posts?
Good point, I'll admit I've omitted that fact. The gameplay itself should definitely come first. I can't believe ,being a danmakufu programmer where gameplay is much more important than the shiny stuff, I forgot about that.
I think everybody need to cool down their heads for a moment and take a few steps back. Have some tea, eat some cake and consider whether your actions are in check with RikaNitori's board rules (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6181.0.html).
I did not intend to break any rules with my post in any form of matter, it's just Saijee shows a lack of caring with suggestions that everyone has clearly stated involving models. The issue is apparent with most people here, the models need improving.
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@Synnae, I'm pretty much flipping everybody off? Really now: what makes you say that?
Explaining the underlying factors is not a "defensive stance" as you'd put it. Now I could be wrong, but I'm assuming at least one of the things you are talking about is that I said:
"Modeling characters with a neutral facial expression is a convention used to optimize the potential for getting their faces to be used for various expressions during animation. "
in response to:
"make sure their faces show their personality. "
And here is the thing, that's not being defensive. It's being explanatory: That is to say- a remark that puts into notice that there is a lack of expressions on the faces as is isn't being discounted because in the game the characters will have facial expressions, however, like I said in my explanation, the use of conventional methods will allow for better results.
They can still change into something else.
I've been trying to tell you that it really doesn't work like that.
@ Phantomsong, I'm not giving you a "fuck you"
This:
Modeling characters with a neutral facial expression is a convention used to optimize the potential for getting their faces to be used for various expressions during animation.
Is in no way, shape or form a "fuck you." Your suggestion was that they should have expressions in their faces, and I clearly said that they will once they are animated. How, prey-tell, is that not what accounting for what you suggested?
@ Helepolis, I started development on some of the animations as well as programming, I've also been collecting sound effects and I starting the music production. This isn't going to be one of those fangames that doesn't get completed. I've carefully planned out the development (week for week) so that a playable build with between 5-8 characters will be available at the end of this year.
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I've mainly asked the question because it tends to be a typical phenomenon on the forums or any public website where person A declares a fan game / project having dozens of pages but actual 0 progress as core. Personal opinion, I think textures (graphics, music (bgm and sfx) are low(est) priorities when developing alone. A frame work is more important where you can already play the game in a simple level so important programming aspects such as collision, game mechanics, control, camera viewpoints etc are taken care of.
For example I was pretty impressed by the sample video you posted. I was hoping to see similar for your Smash Bros game. Just 1 character showing some simple moves. Though you've set up a development route so I'll watch warmly.
Edit: Oh and I am not being hypocritical as my own dnh game is also still in development and actually making serious progress. I just don't discuss or show anything to public except the designated future alpha/beta testers within my "circle".
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I'm aware of that phenomenon, but unlike those people, I have something very important on the line for this. That is something that very strictly motivates me to to not mess around and get this thing solid before January.
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Heh, we're in the same boat regarding that. I'm planning on releasing my game actually for upcoming Reitaisai as well. I think before the circle registrations it needs to be done before end of this year as well.
EditApologies for missing this as the computer at our company office tends to be a jerk.
I did not intend to break any rules with my post in any form of matter, it's just Saijee shows a lack of caring with suggestions that everyone has clearly stated involving models. The issue is apparent with most people here, the models need improving.
I wasn't particularly naming people nor referring directly to you nor said you were breaking rules. I just made a general statement, you just happened to be on top of my post.
The swaying content of various posts from some people in this thread had multiple times urged me to put on my mod cap just to remind people of our section rules that we respect people's work and avoid drama at cost. Subjective opinions about models not being taken into account by the developer remains a choice from him/her. By multiple times bashing the modelling style or technique or how in some people's eyes some characters don't have the expression they expect, is not a valid reason to keep on going on about it.
This isn't in defence of Saijee, but in defence of us all. We're trying to have a healthy discussion / feedback going on here. Obviously both sides (dev + feedbackers) are having some misconceptions regarding this. That is why we all should step back from a moment and re-read what was said, asked and try to refine our feedback. Just a tip ;)
Also please do not forget that constructive criticism about graphics/looks/textures/models is hardly constructive, instead has a major subjective element to it. Unless we were discussing the fluency of animations and such where for example an arm looks dislocated when it is moving around.
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Thank you Helepolis! I said the same thing a few pages back about the actual game. I don't have any 3d modeling experience but I do know that that is how the basics are designed, you ever seen a game glitch out and the character turns into a mannequin? That's the base model where everything is worked from (at least that's what I would assume). I really feel we should start talking about the game, refining the models can come later.
Oh and I am not being hypocritical as my own dnh game is also still in development and actually making serious progress. I just don't discuss or show anything to public except the designated future alpha/beta testers within my "circle".
I hear you on that, I don't even want to start a topic on my project since its no where ready to play yet. My issue is do I work on my game assets first (since that will take a majority of the time) or get a working demo build with assets others made and maybe get some help on where to take it. But then again my words mean nothing as I'm very much a beginner and teaching myself as well... *sigh*
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Complete moveset:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ptx7th
Enjoy!
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So I've been busy, and I just finished learning how to use animate in Maya, program in C#, and develop video games using Unity.
I've just made a scheduled, and if I follow it, I should have a public demo ready by the end of the year that showcases 6 playable characters, and confirms 2 other characters that are not playable in the demo because they would not be completed by that time.
3 of these 8 characters are going to be Reimu, Sakuya, and Tenshi.
Tell me who the other 3 playable characters you would choose, and who would the other 2 confirmed characters be if it were up to you?
To me it makes a lot of sense that Marisa should be playable, but on the other hand, I feel like weather or not she makes it into the final game would ever be a question and that maybe Touhou fans would prefer the demo showcase a less obvious character.
Anyway, here's Sakuya standing as close to her Idle pose in SWR as I could get:
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/223/5/5/sakuya_s_idle_stance_rendered_out_by_saijeehiguchi-d7upyrc.png)
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That Sakuya model looks really good, I like it.
Imho it would be alright to put Marisa into the demo and keep the less obvious characters hidden since that gives us something to speculate about. :V
Other playables? Many good movesets posted have been posted...
Me suggesting Yuuka is kinda obvious, but I'll do it anyway. Replica Remilia and Yuyuko would be neat as well.
Got nothing for confirmations. Considering that Tenshi is already in it my suggestions for playable pretty much cover that. :V
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If my gut feeling is correct, you already have the characters set in stone and are just curious about our thoughts.
Anyway, one of the other playable characters would be Sanae, if only for the obligatory Mario vs. Luigi parallel. :V
Two other playables would be Youmu (lol swords) and Marisa (yet another obligatory numero dos :V).
The two unfinished-but-confirmed characters would probably be either Suika or Yuugi (for that one heavy, REAL SOVIET DAMAGE dealing character) and Reisen (lol finger guns).
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That Sakuya model looks excellent.
My ideas for playable would be Suika , Flandre , and Meiling.
Ideas for Confirmed would be Utsuho and Cirno.
I might make a moveset later on. I'm too tired to make one right now. :V
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To me it makes a lot of sense that Marisa should be playable, but on the other hand, I feel like weather or not she makes it into the final game would ever be a question and that maybe Touhou fans would prefer the demo showcase a less obvious character.
Put her in, just because every fighting game needs a Shotoclone. :V
I say go with whatever initial characters would give the widest variety of playstyles, and give the "confirmed" slots to characters with rabid fanbases to better gather hype. :V Youmu could be a good choice for the initial roster if she plays similar to Marth, since that could draw SSB fans and it's harder to advertise without gameplay. At that point you might as well give the last slot to Sanae just to have all the main characters from the shooters.
I'd love to see Remilia, so I guess you can take that as a vote for one of the confirmeds. (putting her in right away would feel like EoSD was being overrepresented)
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Tell me who the other 3 playable characters you would choose, and who would the other 2 confirmed characters be if it were up to you?
Try to pick the top characters from this year's popularity pool (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/THWiki_Popularity_Poll#10th_.282014.29) while you try to cover all games. Using this parameter as base I would select the following characters:
Koishi
Youmu
Aya
Mokou
Kokoro
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@ Leonard-Helsing, your gut feeling is wrong, I honestly don't know any more than you on who is confirmed for the final roster OR the demo.
There are a lot of factors that I must consider when making a character roster. Just to name a few:
1) How Popular is the character with the fans.
2) How Frequent does that character appear playable in the games.
3) If the character isn't very playable in official games, would it be interesting to make them playable here.
4) What do I have to work with when it comes to making composing a play-style and move-set for the character. '
5) Try to not over-represent the cast of 1 touhou game when there is such a plethora to work with.
There is a lot of sense with going with a roster that priorities character official relevance, such as:
Youmu
Aya
Sanae
Cirno
But on the other hand, there is a neat appeal to novelty for presenting characters that don't really get to be played, such as:
Mokou
Yuugi
Flandre
Shinmyoumaru
But even deeper, it's even more novel to present characters that a lot of fans agree are very cool that don't seem to have much likelyhood to be in the roster because of how they lack relevance compared to other characters, such as:
Ran
Momiji
Little Devil
Nazrin
Wakasagihime
Mystia
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Also I'm not sure if I asked this in my post or not, but you guys are doing it anyway, bring up reasons why you think those characters should be in the demo.
All the points made so far are pretty good ones. Between making the game more approachable to the already established Smash Bros base, and the Popularity poles.
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There's been a lot of talk about playable characters, but do you have any plans for Assist Trophies or stage hazards? Some characters just have a particular gimmick that seems well-suited to it. Some ideas:
Assist Trophies
- Catfish: Catfish!
- Hina: NEGATIVE ZONE kurukuru~
- Kosuzu: Reads a book, causing a swarm of tsukumogami to animate and attack. Similar to Unown or Excitebike.
- Mima: Mew equivalent. Does nothing, but appears so rarely that you get an achievement for it.
- Mimi-chan: Flies straight ahead, creates a large explosion after it hits something or goes past a certain distance.
- Momiji: Could make a decent Lyn or Samurai Goroh equivalent, chasing enemies around the screen to attack them.
- Nazrin: Digs a bunch of random items up from the ground.
- Reisen II: Looks around worried for a moment, then spams bullets straight ahead. Similar to Chikorita, Staryu and so on.
- Rinnosuke: The dud trophy, similar to Goldeen.
- Rumia: Darkens the screen.
- Seija: Flips the screen upside-down for a while, causing confusion.
- Suika: Punches the screen, causing shatter marks to obscure it and possibly destroying the GUI - same basic concept as Nintendogs. Alternately, a Snorlax clone.
- Yoshika: Lurches toward the nearest enemy and grabs them, dealing continuous damage until they manage to break free. Similar to the ReDead enemies in Melee's Adventure Mode.
Stage Hazards
- Flandre: Ultimate Chimera type. Get close, you get smacked by Laevateinn and die instantly.
- Kisume: Watch out for falling objects.
- Lily White: Lily is always a midboss. Always. Even when the game doesn't have stages.
- Tojiko: Hangs around in a Taoist stage and zaps people, I dunno.
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Shinmyoumaru
Yes
I'd be interested in seeing Yuuka around, perhaps filling the "slow but powerful" slot (she has the lowest speed stat in PoFV, so it'd have precedence, and PMiSS talks about her being overwhemingly powerful in both the physical and magical sense).
Other characters I'd like to see are Yukari (so much portal fun and trains), Yoshika (perhaps a Yoshika/Seiga character? Yoshika being directly controlled while Seiga floats behind her, with the former doing melee moves and the later doing ranged attacks), Kanako and Suwako (I admit to wanting this just so I can play a "Suwa War rematch" :V) and, if you're doing PC-98, Shinki (for the unplayable OP secret boss, maybe?)
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Yes well I think we are deviating a bit from the matter of the first 6-8 characters.
Let me explain it this way:
I'm going to have this game's opening A Touhou version of SSB64's opening, who do you want to appear in that opening sequence? And why them?
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Do the initial scene on Alice's room because Yoshi looks like a Doll. So Yoshi would be Marisa. Choose the other characters according the movements that they use on the original opening scene. For example Donkey Kong uses a "strong fighter" movement that it is hitting the ground, so you would show a strength character like Yuugi. Pikachu would be Reimu and the Pokeball would be a Ying-Yang ball.
Zelda Link would be Youmu and etc.
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Choose the other characters according the movements
I suppose that is one way to do it, though I was thinking of doing it the other way around. As in NOT copying it shot-for-shot, just the timing, you know, make the character in question do a *them* thing rather than awkwardly make Touhou characters pretend to act like Nintendo characters.
I like the idea of Alice's house being the explanation for the toys though.
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I suppose that is one way to do it, though I was thinking of doing it the other way around. As in NOT copying it shot-for-shot, just the timing, you know, make the character in question do a *them* thing rather than awkwardly make Touhou characters pretend to act like Nintendo characters.
I was thinking to use this 'awkwardness' as a funny factor to get people's attention, also there is a nostalgia factor when doing that. However your idea is good too.
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Alternately, make the items on the desk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIwWCioBpEM) a hat and a mug of beer. :]
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I use the fighting game sprites as reference for the poses, but that's not to say that the movesets will be identical by any means to the official fighting games.
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/226/8/8/sakuya_poses_by_saijeehiguchi-d7v67im.png)
Here is a GIF I made showing that Sakuya with 3 idle animations.... She's checking her stop watch by the way (the model of the stop watch will be in her hand in the game).
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/227/f/d/sakuya_idle_by_saijeehiguchi-d7v8e6v.gif)
Please note that in the game the idle will not sequence through like this, it will play the idle pose for a while, and on occasion do one of the other two animations.
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Looks good but maybe a bit fast at times.
She barely looks at the watch and it seems more like she would be throwing/flinging something light or waving her hand at someone in a taunting manner.
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I don't know what it is, but I just love poses where the knife / sword is held "reversed". In many games I find this quite the bad ass look.
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You are correct. The system I have so far allows me to work with animations with only up to 100 frames. Because I have all animations on one timeline each one starting at a multiple of 100. Don't worry about the speed though, because once they get to Unity, I'll have a variable that lets me set the speed of each animation independently.
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There's been a lot of talk about playable characters, but do you have any plans for Assist Trophies or stage hazards?
I was thinking of something like this, except they're shikigami slips (portrayed as pieces of paper cut in the forms of little men). Pick them up and they transform into a random character. Here were my ideas.
Alice
-Deploys an army of exploding dolls that wander about the stage. They are all similar to Bob-ombs and will detonate if they come into contact with another fighter.
Chen
-Jolts to and fro, spinning into enemy combatants. Her attacks are weak, but she hits multiple times.
Hina
-Releases purple smoke about her that poisons enemies.
Iku
-Assumes a disco pose and lightning strikes the area where she stands, causing a large explosion of electricity.
Komachi
-Attacks enemies by swinging her scythe about.
Nazrin
-Throws out helpful items onto the stage.
Kogasa
-Bursts onto the stage with an explosion of confetti in an attempt to surprise. Deal a small percentage of damage, but otherwise worthless.
Rumia
-Floats about aimlessly then attaches herself to an enemy while cloaked in an orb of darkness.
Soga no Tojiko
-Discharges a field of electricity around her.
Suika
-Takes a few swigs from her gourd before setting out an attacking foes. Quite strong and is even able to KO with two punches.
3 of these 8 characters are going to be Reimu, Sakuya, and Tenshi.
Tell me who the other 3 playable characters you would choose, and who would the other 2 confirmed characters be if it were up to you?
So with Reimu, Sakuya and Tenshi being part of the first three, I suppose for the next five I would pick:
Meiling
Cirno
Reisen
Marisa
(A character that's out there. Like Wriggle or something)
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I gotta say it's been a while since I was on the site but once I seen that .gif of Sakuya, I had a big smile. Looks very good, back then I wasn't sure about the colors but its grown on me looking at it now. I can't really offer much in any advice anymore so I'll wait till the demo is ready to help out then.
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Another character concept. Sometimes I wish there were collapsible spoilers for all these :wikipedia:
Yuugi
Yuugi's attacks are tremendously powerful, often coming with transcendant priority, shield-breaking properties and/or super armor. To compensate she has low speed, poor aerials, and is one of the few characters to lack any form of projectile. Ganondorf physics, more or less. Her attack animations look like she's never particularly exerting herself, she grins when struck instead of flinching, and her shield animation is just her thrusting out her chest. If feasible to animate, she carries sake that NOT EVEN DROP and attacks only with her left hand.
EDIT: Roll animation is a short hop forwards or backwards. If there are heavy items like crates, then Yuugi (and Suika) inherit DK's ability to carry them without slowing down.
Standard
- Neutral: A single, fairly slow jab that does extra damage to shields.
- Forward: A hook punch with some upwards knockback.
- Up: A punch straight upwards. One of Yuugi's faster moves.
- Down: A basic kick.
- Dash: Shoulder tackle similar to Ganondorf's.
Aerials
- Neutral: Headbutt that delivers a meteor smash but leaves Yuugi vulnerable
- Forward: Falcon Knee
- Reverse: Backhand sweep
- Up: ?
- Down: Elbow drop with a large hitbox.
Smash Attacks
- Side: Yuugi peforms a wide sweep with her arm.
- Up - Adamant Helix: Yuugi thrusts her palm upwards, creating a corkscrew-like stream of white-orange light. Transcendant priority and unusually long reach.
- Down - Annihilating Roar: Yuugi faces the camera and roars, emitting destructive white rings. Their range is short, but they can pass through walls.
Specials
- Neutral: Basically Ganondorf's Warlock Punch if the flames were white-orange.
- Side: A chargeable, lunging punch that grants super armor while sending Yuugi forward. Works like Little Mac's Straight Lunge (minus the Power Meter mechanic) or Ike's Quick Draw.
- Up - Shackles a Prisoner Can't Take Off: Recovery move that throws a spinning shackle upwards, latching on to thin air and pulling Yuugi up slightly beyond the latch point. If it hits an enemy, it instead pulls them downwards.
- Down: Yuugi stomps with one foot, functioning like Ike's Eruption. Based on Knockout in Three Steps, just... with only one step.
- Final Smash - Anomalies, Strength, Disorder, and Spirits: Yuugi delivers a short-range lunging jab. If it hits, the target is sucked into a cinematic Final Smash. Yuugi tosses her sake into the air and proceeds to beat on her opponent with both fists, like so (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH9cNAOe34M). The last blow sends the opponent flying so hard that they shatter the moon (or just the screen).
Throws
- Forward: Yuugi leans back and delivers a headbutt. With her horn.
- Reverse: Casually tosses enemy over her shoulder.
- Up: Yuugi tosses the opponent lightly upwards, then delivers an uppercut.
- Down: Yuugi jumps up and slams her enemy into the ground, similar to Kirby's Down Throw.
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Yuugi seems to be depicted 1 of 2 ways in fan art. Either very feminine (Slender Busty and Curvy) or very masculine (Edgy and Built).
I personally like the later of the depictions, things like this: http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/jp/image/1337/05/1337055066174.jpg
Exudes a solid image of toughness.
I was thinking that it would be fun to have Yuugi as a tank character. Physically taller and larger than the other characters.
Personally I was thinking of designing her with a unique capital T. TANK trait. Permanent 10% super armor: Attacks that do less than 10% cannot ever phase her.
Also she's got that horn. Maybe I'm alone here, but I always thought it would be cool, and I could see her pulling it off too, if she used it like Destroyah:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqhYubGqz3c
I think she could still have some projectiles. I mean I thought those vibrating String-Theory looking rings she tossed at you in SA were pretty memorable.
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I think she could still have some projectiles. I mean I thought those vibrating String-Theory looking rings she tossed at you in SA were pretty memorable.
Well I figure there should be someone without any projectiles, and Yuugi seems like one of the characters where it makes most sense. Suika says that Yuugi is physically stronger than her but not as good with magic stuff. Plus Yuugi puts a lot of emphasis on an "honest fight" - attacking from a distance where you can't be harmed could be seen as cowardly. Smash places far less emphasis on projectiles than Touhou (even the Touhou fighters) to the point of removing projectile attacks from characters who had them in their source games.
Or if you prefer: Captain Falcon wouldn't be as badass if he had a projectile, and you know it. BV
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There are also Smash Characters that have projectiles that just function very differently than normal projectiles though:
Kirby's Final Cutter
Bowser's Flame Breath
Charizard's Boulder Smash
Pikachu's Thunder
Ivysour's Bullet Seed
Peach's Toad
Yoshi's Ground Pound (Little Stars)
Mario's FLUDD
You get the picture.
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When I said projectile I meant an attack that can hit enemies in a different part of the map. Stuff that just gives a little extra reach is fine - heck, I included some moves like that already.
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Another character concept. Sometimes I wish there were collapsible spoilers for all these :wikipedia:
Yuugi
Specials
- Neutral: Basically Ganondorf's Warlock Punch if the flames were white-orange.
- Side: A chargeable, lunging punch that grants super armor while sending Yuugi forward. Works like Little Mac's Straight Lunge (minus the Power Meter mechanic) or Ike's Quick Draw.
- Up - Shackles a Prisoner Can't Take Off: Recovery move that throws a spinning shackle upwards, latching on to thin air and pulling Yuugi up slightly beyond the latch point. If it hits an enemy, it instead pulls them downwards.
- Down: Yuugi stomps with one foot, functioning like Ike's Eruption. Based on Knockout in Three Steps, just... with only one step.
- Final Smash - Anomalies, Strength, Disorder, and Spirits: Yuugi delivers a short-range lunging jab. If it hits, the target is sucked into a cinematic Final Smash. Yuugi tosses her sake into the air and proceeds to beat on her opponent with both fists, like so (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH9cNAOe34M). The last blow sends the opponent flying so hard that they shatter the moon (or just the screen).
That reminds me, I did come up with a standard moveset (and some extra details) for Yuugi. How does this look?
Yuugi
Power: S
Speed: D
Jump: D
Weight: Heavyweight
Entrance: Appears on the stage drinking from a dish of sake and wipes her mouth in satisfaction
Icon: Sake Dish
Neutral Special: Drunken Fist*
-With a grin, Yuugi spins her arms around to charge up a powerful punch. When full charged, steam will rise from Yuugi's head. The charge can be saved for a later use.
Side Special: Knockout in Three Steps
-A three-hit move that starts with a forward jab. If Yuugi makes contact, pressing the attack button again will allow her to combo with a shoulder bash and finish with an uppercut. Each hit increases in damage and knockback.
Up Special: Super Oni Jump
-Yuugi jumps extremely high, then crashes down, causing a shockwave around her. If she hits a foe on her way down, they are spiked. Yuugi can also damage opponents at the start of the jump.
Down Special: Fearsome Roar*
-Yuugi lets out a deep bellow that releases a disruptive soundwave around her. This move causes opponents to be stunned and take a small amount of damage. Any projectiles around Yuugi will be reflected.
Final Word: Deva's Strength
-Yuugi lunges forward a short distance. If she catches an opponent, she'll grasp them and perform a flaming pile driver that is powerful enough to KO from a low percentage.
*These moves can be made more effective thanks to Yuugi's taunt, which has her downing some sake from her dish. The more she taunts, her neutral special Drunken Fist will have a faster charge time and her down special, Fearsome Roar will have a wider range with more power. If Yuugi is KOed, this effect dissipates.
And here's a bonus. This was a recent character idea I had:
Tewi
Power: C
Speed: A
Jump: S+
Weight: Lightweight
Entrance: Hops out from a patch of bamboo
Icon: Rabbit
Neutral Special: Pluck
-Tewi pulls out a carrot from the ground. Pressing the special button again will allow her to toss it. All of the carrot pulled will cause a set range of damage when they hit an opponent, depending on their size. Occasionally, you may pluck out a rare golden carrot...
Side Special: Banana Peel
-Tewi casually tosses out a banana peel in front of her. As expected, enemies who step on the banana peel will trip, causing a small percentage of damage. Tewi can only throw out two banana peels at a time.
Up Special: Cherry Bomb
-Tewi tosses a cherry bomb in an arc. The bomb explodes into fireworks on contact with an enemy. If it falls onto a stage, it will stay there for a few moments before going off on its own. At this state, it can be picked up an thrown.
Down Special: Trap Hole
-Tewi pulls out a shovel and briefly digs a pit trap covered with a patch of dirt. Enemies that walk over the area will be grounded and suffer some damage. Tewi can only create one trap hole at a time.
Final Word: Rabbit Call
-Tewi whistles, causing a horde of earth rabbits to appear and wander about. If they confront enemy combatants, they will automatically attack them through various means. The rabbits can be fended off, but only with strong blows.
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And so it has begun! Here is a video after the first full day of programming the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTgmfRrJQq0&feature=youtu.be
I think it's a pretty good start! I'm trying to nail the Smash Bros mechanics one at a time!
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Wow, now this is a project I've been always looking for, sadly I can't contribute much but I wish you all the luck I can give, this is going to be awesome
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Honestly I think the best and easiest way to help this project is just to spread awareness. Reading comments of excitement in videos for previous games I've made always seemed to boost my morale and help me preform better as a programmer.
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Seeing this video made it feel very real! On terms of awareness I guess it would be hard for those that don't gave anyone to tell. Ex: none of my friends don't know or like touhou.
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Video has been shared on my discussion channel and Twitter to create awareness in the east.
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Glad you like it Colticide. Thanks Helepolis.
Here is day 2! With horizontal movements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uDFeC1xQfc
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Those videos look nice, Good Job so far. I look forward to more :D.
But I finally have a movelist for you guys. I stalled a little bit because I procrastinated and then school started so yeah...
Anyway, lets get to the person of honor shall we.
Murasa
A very slow, but very powerful character. Murasa carries her anchor into battle. Her attacks are mostly using her anchor for various purposes.
Smashes
Side Smash- Swings her anchor at enemies in front of her.
Side Smash Full Charge(Harbor Sign "Eternally Anchored Ghost Ship" )- Sends 8 anchors on both sides of her going at different angles
Up Smash- Spins her anchor over her head hitting enemies on both sides of her.
Up Smash Full Charge(Drowning Sign "Sinkable Vortex") - Makes a water vortex with her hand that sucks enemies in. They are hit multiple times before being sent away with one final water burst.
Down Smash- Smashes her anchor down and causes a shockwave around her
Down Smash Full Charge(Capsize "Sinking Anchor")- Slams her anchor down which causes a lot of water bullets to fly up and hit opponents.
Final Smash(Ghost "Dipper Creeping Close")- Murasa charges power, rushes forward to the first enemy/group of enemies and does an uppercut. The uppercut has a good amount of range so it is a little easier to catch multiple opponents. The enemies get catapulted to the sky while Murasa disappears, then rain bullets start hitting the enemies from the sides. The final 11 hits are this.
8 anchors that hit the enemy from different directions.
2 anchors that trap the opponent between them.
Murasa reappears above the opponents with a bigger then usual anchor which she slams down on them.
She slams them all the way down to the stage where they are then engulfed in a big explosion that can hit other people who were not caught.
Specials
Neutral- Throws her anchor like a boomerang. It will fly out in a straight direction. Murasa can move while the anchor is out and can influence the direction it will return in.( Think Links Side Special from SSBM)
Side-Uses her anchor to catapult toward the enemy with a devastating dropkick.
Up- Spins her anchor sending her flying through the air
Down- Summons a geyser right in front of her that sends opponents into the air.
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Captain Murasa? With her anchor? Now that's an interesting idea.
Touhou Super Smash Bros Project is looking awesome! And only 3 Days INTO development!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rKEYhk_KD0&index=3&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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Looking awesome! I'm sure this is obvious and planned, but don't forget to use add effects to indicate the invincible time on dodges.
Going to throw in another moveset because I can't help myself. This time, Utsuho!
General style - A heavy and powerful character, but one who plays defensively and has trouble chasing other characters down. She's most like a fusion of Bowser and Samus and tends to get KOs off the top of the screen.
Quirks - High double jump, but lacks vertical recovery on her Up Special. Rolling backwards goes FAR but is slow.
Forward Smash - Jabs with the third leg, doing weak damage and knockback, but combos into a flame geyser that erupts from the end soon after. Range increases with charge time. (8-16% + 16-20%)
Up Smash - Volcanic eruption engulfs Utsuho, reaching high into the air. The lava from the peak falls back down, doing less damage and knockback but lasting a long time. Initial blast is KO move though. (12% - 22%, 8%)
Down Smash - Stomps with her cement foot, creating an earthquake effect that also hits behind her. Pops enemies into the air and has some super armor, but long recovery. (8% - 25%, depending mostly on distance)
Neutral Special - "Nuclear Fusion" - Charges a growing orb of nuclear power. She holds the orb above her while charging, which launches enemies with good but unscaling knockback. When fully charged, it acts like Samus's shot but with mostly vertical knockback. She can cancel charging by rolling, but she can't fire until it's fully charged. (2%, 28%)
Side Special - "Shooting Sun" - Tosses a sun towards the ground ahead of her, exploding on impact. The trajectory can be altered slightly by holding a direction, similar to Yoshi's egg, but the timing window is short. If it hits an enemy, the explosion extends into the air a bit. (12%)
Down Special - "Melting Pummel Kick" - Downwards angle kick in the air, horizontal kick on the ground. Short range, but grabs on hit, so it can't be shielded. If it hits, Utsuho pins the enemy down with her foot, and scalds them with flame before kicking them to the side. Horrible lag on miss, and no real followups. Can be a suicide kill offstage. (5x2% + 5%)
Up Special - "Ten Evil Stars" - Utsuho briefly surrounds herself with orbs of nuclear energy that circle around her in a horizontal ring. Utsuho barely rises but gets good horizontal movement for the duration. Invincible startup frames makes this an extremely good option out of shield. (4x5%, but doesn't usually hit that many times)
Final Smash - "Abyss Nova" - This actually activates the moment she picks up the smash ball, instead of upon using Neutral Special. Utsuho starts glowing yellow, turning brighter and brighter over 10 seconds. When the countdown is up, she creates a huge explosion that is nearly as wide as Battlefield that does multiple hits before finally launching for a nearly certain KO. Attempting to use the Neutral Special will delay the explosion by 3 seconds, but this effect becomes diminished with multiple uses (since she can't contain the power). Obviously, Utsuho is at risk of losing the smash ball before it activates, so the enemy either has to go all out offense, or run away and hope to dodge.
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Okuu eh? Let me try...
Utsuho
Utsuho is a slow powerhouse type, but with the added gimmick of obscenely large hitboxes (both for herself and her attacks). While her wings let her jump five times, her individual jumps are short and she lacks a good recovery move. She's also not quite as heavy as her size would suggest, making her something of a glass cannon. Her shield has the unique property of exploding when broken, dealing extra damage to Utsuho and inflicting slight knockback on anyone around her. She can be downright terrifying in a 4-man fight, but one-on-one she's easy to outmaneuver. If there's a single-player mode, a Giant Utsuho with a red colour scheme should show up as a boss with screen-filling attacks. :V
Aerials
- Neutral - Self-Tokamak: Utsuho glows while surrounded by spinning electrons, damaging anything in contact with her.
- Up: Backflipping kick.
- Down: Stomps with her concrete foot. If it makes contact then she'll bounce up, similar to Brawl's footstool jump, but with an extended cooldown that makes it difficult to spam.
Smash Attacks
- Side - High-Tension Blade: Utsuho glows while the button is held. When released she dashes forward slightly, then fires a beam from her Control Rod that knocks her back to her starting position, then stops glowing. Has enormous reach, particularly at full charge, though it only delivers significant knockback to enemies directly in front of her (and she has better options if she just wants to rack up damage).
- Up - Flare Up: Creates two fireballs that spin around Utsuho while moving upwards.
- Down - Nuclear Blaze Geyser: Faces the camera and slaps her Control Rod against the ground, creating geysers to either side. Most effective against enemies in contact with the ground.
Specials
- Neutral - Mega Flare: Holds a small yellow sun in front of her Control Rod. After a few seconds it expands with a thump SFX and turns red. After another few seconds it expands again and turns blue. When the button is released, Utsuho shoots the sun forward. Similar to Samus's Charge Shot except that it has only three levels of charge, the third level of charge causes her to take continuous damage until fired or cancelled, and it can be charged in the air (in fact it charges faster) but does not slow her fall. While actually firing it in midair leaves Utsuho helpless, it has powerful recoil (similar to Mewtwo's Shadow Ball) that makes it one of her best recovery options, particularly at full charge.
- Side - Hell's Artificial Sun: Similar to Din's Fire, but far larger and more powerful. Instead of becoming faster over time, it becomes slightly larger. It can also inflict minor damage even before detonation. Mediocre knockback though, so it's not great as a finisher.
- Up - Break Sun: Creates a miniature sun above her head, which deals continuous damage for a few moments then explodes with upwards knockback. Fast startup, and amazing power if sweetspotted, but cannot be cancelled. If used in midair it slows Utsuho's fall but remains in a fixed position. There might be a way to give it slight upwards momentum through advanced techniques (like activating it as you land). Alternately, ignore everything I just said and make this move a PK Flash clone called Creeping Sun.
- Down - Rocket Dive: Similar in function to Ganondorf's Wizard Foot. Utsuho spreads her arms wide and flies forward while glowing, hitting multiple times. In the air it becomes Yatagarasu Dive, which flies diagonally downwards with more power but a longer startup (think of it like a cross between aerial Wizard's Foot and Fire Bird).
- Final Smash - Subterranean Sun: ☢ CAUTION!! ☢ banners appear as Utsuho surrounds herself in an artificial sun similar to the Smart Bomb item. The sun also has vacuum effects, which are significantly more pronounced on items (almost to Cook Kirby levels).
Throws
- Forward - Hell Geyser: Slaps her Control Rod into the ground, causing a geyser to blast diagonally upwards.
- Reverse - Radiant Blade: Flies past the opponent, then generates a blade of energy from her Control Rod and swings it backwards.
- Up - Fixed Star: Traps enemy inside a spinning ring of suns that floats slowly upwards, dealing continuous damage and ending with slight upwards knockback. The suns last an unusually long time, and Utsuho is free to move immediately after they're launched, but they also block most attacks (and will damage even Utsuho if she touches them) so further damaging the trapped character is extremely difficult. It's mainly useful as a delaying tactic while you're trying to get your hands on the Smash Ball or another strong item.
- Down - Melting Pummel Kick: Jumps up and stomps with a fiery concrete foot.
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Neat ideas.
Speaking of ideas, I think that it is important to note that this isn't just supposed to be fitting Touhou girls into the SSB mold. It's also meant to stand apart from the official SSB games and embrace it's Touhou nature. After all, it's not like I need to balance them against Marth and Fox.
I spent today implementing a bunch of Touhou style moments not native to SSB play, I'd like to know what you think about it as presented in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RbVtgIS_Q&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=4
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Kinda late, but you've been featured on a Touhou Facebook fanpage.
https://www.facebook.com/THProject/posts/10152595420869020
They're also planning to bribe you to include the whole UFO cast. :V
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That's fantastic! Glad To see this getting some attention from others. Also of course someone talked about project m and mmd models again. Borrowed assets just lose their charm if used by to many people.
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Dangit, I lost a post I was typing. Well it was more or less:
Yuyuko is slow, light and floaty, but her weight and fall speed increase while she's close to the ground. Her air dodges and wavedash are slow but travel far. She can't SHFFL well due to her slow attack speeds, but her weird physics make her unpredictable.
Most of Yorihime's attacks are based (at least visually) on high-tier characters from each Smash game. She has Melee Fox physics while her physical attacks use mostly Meta Knight animations (with some Sheik kicks). Her specials are Atago (Mach Tornado), Takemikazuchi (holds up her sword to use Smash 64 Thunder), Shinatsuhiko (Dancing Blade) and Ishikoridome (Reflector). Her grab uses the Sword of Gion to create a cage of swords in front of her, giving it an unusually large hitbox. Her roll animation has her glow while dancing around, based on her use of Ame-no-Uzume against Remilia.
I spent today implementing a bunch of Touhou style moments not native to SSB play, I'd like to know what you think about it as presented in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RbVtgIS_Q&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=4
I'm concerned that universal flight and slow fall would make everyone feel less unique - it makes your chosen character's physics less relevant, and it prevents you from giving, say, Reimu a unique flight gimmick (yes you could make her flight last longer, but that doesn't leave nearly the same impression). Also it could make things play more like Brawl, which might not be the best idea.
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Ahh, that explains why I suddenly gained 40 new subscribers...
I've been reading a number of comments saying that Sakuya's idle looks too masculen... So I've been trying to make adjustments, what do you think?
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/234/f/b/sakuya_idle_edit_by_saijeehiguchi-d7w80fb.png)
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I don't see anything wrong with the old one, but I guess that's rather subjective.
The new one looks like she's repelled by something, as if she's disgusted a little bit. Or extremely surprised. Or fake interest.
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That looks a bit much, it works for the sprite since the character proportions are smaller and the exaggerated stance fits the style. Maybe something in the middle might work, like a bit between the two if you understand my horrid speech.
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I think the left one looks better. The pose on the right is a bit haughty and exaggerated. Doesn't really suit Sakuya.
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Yes I agree with you, I too felt like she looked perturbed. I was just following the directions of the people of the opposite opinion though. Here are some variations, what do you think?
B. is the interpolated frame between A and D, and C is a combination using the legs of D and the upper body of A.
(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/234/2/a/sakuya_idle_by_saijeehiguchi-d7w8smj.png)
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I'm kinda feeling B or A still. Kinda split on them sorry. Now that I look at sakuyas sprite that's kinda looks uncomfortable with how she is standing lol.
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A and B both look alright.
The other two look just rather forced with how she positions her head. It's an idle-pose and still something you have to feel comfortable striking for a while.
She's after all not staring someone down who tries to take away her dear mistress or something.
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What about the upper body of A with the legs of B or vice versa? Really though, I'd be okay with either on their own.
Also, more characters:
Tenshi
Might as well give some input on a character that's been confirmed. Another slow/powerful type, Tenshi has floaty jumps despite her above-average weight, and many of her attacks have long hitstun.
Standard
- Down - Six Earthquakes: Stabs her sword into the ground, creating a tremor that hits six times. Extremely long startup, comparable to Ganondorf's Up Tilt in weirdness.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Beam of Non-Perception: Holds a Keystone in front of her as the attack is charged. When she releases the button it shatters to fire a beam that looks a lot like Falco's Blaster.
- Up - Heaven and Earth Press: Two Keystones appear above Tenshi in a <| |> formation then slam together, crushing anything caught between them. Can be used to block projectiles from above, on the rare occasions you'd need to do that.
- Down - Sword of the Earth: Stabs the Sword of Hisou into the ground, creating pillars at either side with vertical knockback. Can also be used to block projectiles, though not as easily as her Down Special.
Specials
- Neutral: Shoots a Keystone point-first that drills into enemies; can be charged for greater power.
- Side - Sword of Non-Perception: Similar to Raptor Boost. Tenshi rushes forward while making an upwards slash with her sword. If it connects she'll follow it up with a downwards slash that sends opponents flying horizontally and slightly upwards (or at a Sakurai angle?). If it whiffs Tenshi will stumble, becoming vulnerable.
- Up - Sky Attack: Recovery move that sends Tenshi diagonally upwards.
- Down - Pillar of Divine Punishment: Produces a large Keystone and flies straight down holding it below her. The Keystone shatters on impact, sending out rock chunks a short distance. Otherwise similar to Kirby's Down Special, but it doesn't protect Tenshi from attack. If used on the ground, Tenshi will instead hold a Keystone in front of her that works like Toad.
- Final Smash - Scarlet Weather Rapture: Basically Lucario's Aura Storm, but the "beam" is a dense stream of bullets that spreads out slightly with distance. Changing the angle does not affect bullets already on the screen, so its turning is a bit more laggy than Lucario's move, but the centre of the stream has vacuum properties which make it easier to keep enemies trapped.
Reisen
Reisen may not be the fastest or the strongest but she excels at mind games, with plenty of confusing attacks and ways to cancel from one action into another. At least one of her attacks inflicts stun/dizziness.
Smash Attacks
- Side - Crown Vision: Shoots a series of damaging rings from her eyes, which vanish after a short distance.
- Up - Demotivation: Faces the camera and releases a white pulse. Low damage and fixed upwards knockback, but it's unblockable and struck enemies are sent tumbling similar to the effects of Mewtwo's Confusion.
- Down - Illusionary Blast: Fires eye beams diagonally downwards, similar to Snake's Forward Smash. Useful mainly for edgeguarding.
Specials
- Neutral - Mind Explosion: Shoots a homing bullet from her fingertip similar to Samus's Missile. If you hold the button you can instead control its path directly. High travel speed when it's fired, but slows quickly. Her throws use a barrage of these bullets, similar to Fox's throw animations.
- Side: Shoots an energy orb 30 degrees up (on the ground) or 30 degrees down (in the air). At the same time, shoots an identical nondamaging orb straight ahead that vanishes after a short distance or when it collides with something. If you use this attack as a smash rather than a tilt, then the real and fake orbs switch positions.
- Up - Disbelief Aspect: Reisen launches a transparent image of herself upwards (inflicting damage) then trades places with it. Slightly aimable, and leaves Reisen helpless afterwards. Can also be cancelled, which turns the teleport at the end into a fake-out (she appears to teleport, then instantly teleport back again).
- Down (Ground): A short but quick powerslide that can be cancelled into a jump or roll.
- Down (Air) - Disorder Eye: Sort of like Dimensional Cape with Double Team visuals. Reisen splits into two flickering images of herself to the left and right, becoming temporarily invincible. She will then materialise at one of these two images depending on which direction you held during startup, and can also deliver a melee attack if you press A. If you do not hold a direction (or hold a direction other than left or right) then she simply reappears in the same position. Reisen becomes helpless after using this move, so it works best when combined with a short hop.
- Final Smash - Lunatic Red Eyes: Rings of red light damage everything around Reisen. Mediocre power, but a fast startup that makes it hard to avoid.
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I am in agreement with that A looks the best. Here is an update video, but this one is more of an informative video, I felt like making one because I got a ton of new subscribers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu3Gdhlu97c&feature=youtu.be
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Trying to get the ledge game to be as authentically SSB as possible was a big priority of mine, but I think I nailed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YFq_TZvdkw&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=6
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Oops the link goes to you first dev blog. Just watched number 5 and man all that code... Also love seeing sakuya in action, once the special effects are in place later on it will look fantastic.
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Thanks, fixed it!
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Nothing but smiles on my end, looks good and seems to function right! Didn't know about the backward ledge grab in ssbb I assumed you could do that but I guess not.
This might seem silly but what is wave dash? I heard of it before but never knew or tried it in ssb.
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I'm trying to make a lot of decisions with this games dev that will reduce the amount of accidental slip-suicide shenanigans as much as possible. A common example that has happened all the time in Tournament play is "sheild push" where someone is sliding, and they mean to press R to shield, but then accidentally air-dodge and die as a result. Which is why in TSSB, you can grab the ledge in air-dodge. Similar kind of reason why I added backwards ledge grab.
Now about your question. SSBM particularly was full of an abundance of advanced techniques the Sakurai had specifically put into the game to create a competitive game. Much of them went right over the heads of casual players of the game, but the features continue to live on today in competitive tourneys. While some casual players are oblivious to the advanced techniques, there are also a smaller circle within that that flat out resent the advanced techniques. Much of the advanced techniques in SSBM required long dedicated training sessions to mechanical the twitch reflexes to a point of no fail. I've been a competitive melee player for a while, so I embrace the advanced techniques. But on the other hand, I think that if the casual players could execute the advanced techniques without a need to have such rigorous practice, they would like them too. So I'm making it my task to simplify the advanced techniques of SSBM into nothing more than standard mechanics in TSSB.
Classically the ~wave dash~ is possible in SSBM because you can direct your air dodge; when you air dodge toward the ground at a left or right angle, then you will retain the remaining inertia form your air dodge, and this allows you to slide. But what makes a wave dash such a good technique is that it allows you to maintain a neutral position giving you all the opportunity to do any kind of attack you want at any moment. As opposed to normal dashing, which makes it impossible to do anything other then a special move, an up smash, or a dash attack.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaUOIxGN8T0&index=7&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
Sooo I've finally gotten to that point where I need to make Sakuya's unique animations. Anyone have ideas for her 3 taunts?
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The watch animation looked smooth and the speed felt right, good job!
Trying to figure out taunts that fit sakuya is gonna drive me crazy. The only one I keep going back to is Dio Brando's WRYYY pose since that's who she is pretty much based on, but looking at it in my head it just feels out of place. I'll post and ideas I have while at work.
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She could do some tricks with her knives, like throwing one into the air and have it reappear in her other hand,
casually shuffle a deck of playing cards, if you plan to have voices then her line from EoSD "You're time is mine" could be used with an animation involving her stopwatch
and that's all I've got right now.
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Maybe facing the camera and swinging her watch like a pendulum (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEff2L_ry5k&t=11m43s), complete with tick-tock SFX? Or the "Shadow Dio (http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/29816/661554-dio_fanservice.png)" pose. Or taking out a tea set and tray, and pouring some tea.
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This may be a bad suggestion, and it would take a lot of work but one way is make animations of some suggestions and link a poll into a video and the best three win. Issues with that is all the work and there might not be enough people who vote...
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Hm, for her taunts I'd suggest drinking a cup of tea, shuffling cards around and pointing a blade towards the enemy with her eyes glowing red (like they do in her "Eternal Meek", "Incribed Red Soul" and "Soul Sculpture" cards).
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Not bad ideas...
I was sick today, so no update video, still I was trying to get some stuff done. I'm happy with this N-air, but a little bit less happy with this U-air...
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/smgkys.jpg)
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/2drs3zt.jpg)
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The up air could be one knife with a wider swing radius, she doesn't always have to use two.
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Aerials are in! How do you guys feel about L-cancling vs the system provided in today's vid? Or have something better in mind?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GW7YYDHlVg&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=8
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Is flight going to have different properties for each character? If everyone's flight is as good as Sakuya's, and everyone can attack freely without losing flight, I can easily see "wall of pain" combos taking the place of traditional edgeguarding. Consider giving the majority of characters unique limits on their flight. For example, Yuugi might have low duration and traction on her flight, meaning she really has to commit to her approach. Cirno might slowly drift downwards during her flight, making it less useful for off-stage and emphasizing air-to-ground combos. That's not too say that good flight shouldn't have a place in the game, but it should be reserved for characters intended to have great air game.
The L-Cancelling change bugs me a bit, since the ability to cancel any aerial's landing lag would mean we wouldn't have powerful but risky moves like Link's dair anymore. You need low landing lag on most attacks, but also a few exceptions where it makes sense.
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Duration, Speed, and Agility are all things that will vary from one characters flight to another.
Also, even with the way of this NON-L-Cancel system what you are describing is plenty possible, you know, like in SWR I think it was that air attacks either didn't have landing lag or they did, but if they did it was for a reason, like with Suwako or Tenshi.
Likewise, I could easily add exceptions to the rule, heck it is already have it so that each animation can be decidedly cancelable or not on start.
So I made a video that shows just what this system means on a more extreme note:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE2h0xbGsQw&index=9&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
The NON-L-cancel makes it so that it is very easy to execute what is classically very easy to get right.
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Got Jabs in Touhou Smash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ1-qsgc9eE&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=10
Tilts for tomorrow.
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Hey guys, things are getting exciting! The mechanics of this game are going to make it super easy to string together combos without doing the wrong input. No twitch reflexes required!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0wDT3E73LY&index=12&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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Yeah I'm very much casual then... After watching that I had no idea what anything meant. I'm glad to have easy access to that stuff but even if I don't know how to properly use or know what it makes better, I'm might still gonna use the base game ssb mechanics...
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It's all still based on the SSB mechanics. But things have been made more conventional. Think of it like how in SSBM it is easier to preform a smash attack thanks to the C-stick.
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True, I'm sure once it does come out or even just the demo it will all make sense. Hmm had an idea but as I was typing it just realized that it made no sense, what do you plan to start working on now?
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Smash attacks, then spell cards then special moves.
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I would assume spell cards are gonna be either a new kind of attack or final smashes.
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Yes Spell Cards will take TSSB back to the classic Bullet Hell side of Touhou. Each character has 3 spells, Forward, Up and Down. The input for a spell card is simply to charge up a smash attack all the way. That said, spell cards do not have any kind of ammunition or magic bar, you may use spell cards limitlessness, but they are not spammable because you must find the time and situation to actually manage to fully charge a smash attack.
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Wouldn't they be really easy to use just by starting to charge as soon as you send your opponent flying off-screen, so they get hit by it as they respawn? :wat:
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That would not work because you respawn on a platform and choose when to get off of it within a 5 seconds and are invulnerable for 3 seconds later.
Also, Spell cards cannot kill enemies, they are only for territorial control.
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Multiplayer is a go! Got that wicked SSB camera thing going on too! I bet things will get a ton more interesting after I get them to be able to hurt other players!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq79dfUZTng&index=15&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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It's looking really cool so far :D
I tried for a good twenty minutes to add something more to this post, but failed.
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Hey guys, I've got some good news!
The folks setting up TouhouCon at California for Sept 20 contacted the FSS face book page and they want to spend some of the time during the event presenting stuff for and promoting TSSB. They are also going to ask me and my brothers questions about it through Skype video as guest speakers. That gives me about 15 more days to make TSSB look as presentable and legit as possible!
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A big congratulations! That's a pretty big step toward more awareness for the game! I'm rooting for you!
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Thanks, but we decided that we don't want them to skype us. Instead we are going to attend in person.
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Oh sweet, I'll be there and it would be pretty cool to meet you! I've been lurking the thread for a while, and this looks really great too!
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Awesome! Like Blue said, it'd be cool to see you at TouhouCon...
TouhouCon at California
:|
well...looking forward to seeing how your progress goes! ^_^
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We now have enough done in the dev to present THE FIRST ACTUAL FIGHT! (disclaimer, ssb rules not yet implemented, but they can hit each other!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VxmrHD6gpI&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=20
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Man this is looking really incredible. Even without special moves it's great to watch just to see the smooth animations. This is going to look amazing with sfx, I'm sure.
Also, that stage is huuuge! It looked like a more vertical Temple (from SSBM). Will stages be more or less that big or is this just for testing purposes?
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Not to forget vfx. Stage is just a test stage.
So I finally spoke about FSS going to TouhouCon on the dev log, also in the background you can see I've got a better combat going on. No launch yet though, but the damage ratio is in!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snLSy866Ypc&index=21&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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And this is when I curse myself for not being capable of going there. Can't even lobby any players... :V
Joke aside, I hope there will be a fairly high interest there.
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Not to forget vfx. Stage is just a test stage.
So I finally spoke about FSS going to TouhouCon on the dev log, also in the background you can see I've got a better combat going on. No launch yet though, but the damage ratio is in!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snLSy866Ypc&index=21&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
What if the tournament winner asks for a character like Marisa's father, or the Five Magic Stones, or Pikachu? :V
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Pikachu? Are you referring to that thing that happened at the SSBWiiU invitational tournament?
Touhou does have a lot of lesser known obscure characters, like Remilia's Chupacabra, but it cannot be one of them, especially if we don't actually have any idea what the character us supposed to look like.
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the winner is going to choose Mima i can feel it in my bones
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Wanna bet? :V
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Since I'm one a hardcore SSB player, I strive to get the details right! logic for SSB and SWR are both valid ways to play!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tg6T80Eq3M&index=22&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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Finally got rid of that ugly non existent BG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyAG0t7MlME&index=24&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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Nice to see its progressing so fast! Still finding a lot of terms I never heard of lol. The second color sakuya might take me a bit to get use to, maybe keeping the white on her but change the blue to red might be better but that's just what I'm feeling anyway.
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Sakuya's alternate outfit looks really nice. I also like the idea of the player being able to dodge the attacks when they're grabbed. Is the amount of time a player stays grabbed proportional only to the amount of damage they have or are there other factors?
Ah, do you plan on implementing stage hazards, like in SSB?
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That is the only factor.
Stage hazards? It is not a priority...
Guys I got the stock counter and percent on the GUI working!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQHqRtqIUw&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=27
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Nice! Loving green Sakuya, do you plan on doing more with the GUI or is that a project for much later?
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Icon's will be added based on the Game that the character originates from. I may or may not add littlemugshots.
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I actually had an idea about that weeks ago but scrapped it cause it seems kinda dumb, but now a good a time as any I guess. I was thinking why not use a Kanji from that characters game that best represents the game. Like for example Sakuya could have the kanji 紅 (kou), but there might not be enough unique kanji if you plan to have a character from every game. Mea made a topic on how there is a connection to characters names and the titles and plot of the games, you can find it here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16759.0.html) if you are interested. Other then that I've no idea what icons could be used unless you want to use their sigil from the GoM but not every character in the newer games have sigils.
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It is a good idea. However I'd like to stray away from making things too Japanesey.
Its starting to look like an actual game now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUJQVCY8TnI&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=29
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The Time freeze grab is awesome, can you swap color palettes of the other character to black and white like in hisoutensoku when Sakuya does that?
There probably is a way, but I don't know how to do it yet. Will be like in SWR in final though!
Hmm, you might need something more visible here, like a bubble or aura of stopped time that bleeds out from them. A bubble might actually be easier to code, too, since you can draw it on the top layer without worrying about how it interacts with everything else. To make it really stand out you could put spinning clock symbols on top (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB2HdPnhgpw&t=2m4s).
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asyl26VzDpY&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=31
Special moves in!
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Looks great! Was surprised by the redirection, sakuya can really combo.
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Did someone say "combo"?
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/261/a/1/touhou_super_smash_battles__sakuya_highlevel_combo_by_saijeehiguchi-d7zmuh2.gif)
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Geez! I know TSB has a few things that SSB doesn't but was this also capable in SSB?
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Replace the flying with hop and fast fall and I'll say yea, it is possible to make combos that resemble that in SSBM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj_54hAA3f0
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The look on my face, I never knew smash bros could be played so fast! I really am excited to play your demo at the end of the year!
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And soo Sakuya is all ready for Touhoucon!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnbTmnENBhY&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=33
I'm going to try and add visual effects like hit BAMF tomarrow!
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BAMF?
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Do you mean hitsparks or something else?
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hit sparks
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So what exactly are Sakuya's controls right now? It looks like Phantom Break (bounce off floor) is B, Phantom Break (bounce off sky) is Down-B, Lightning Storm is a down throw, Snow Storm is Phantom Break used in midair, and Hail Storm is Side-B?
I've got two major concerns right now: First, Sakuya's attacks don't have a lot of visual variety. Second, it's fine in 1-on-1 tournament situations, but when you've got 4 players and maybe exploding items on the screen, the sheer number of projectiles could cause a lot of collateral damage and confusion (particularly if the knives have room to ricochet, and/or you have multiple Sakuyas and can't always keep track of whose knives are whose).
This could be improved just by making the knives (or their auras) different colours for each attack, but what I'd really like to see is different numbers of knives - e.g. a single large red knife for one special (shieldbreaking?), a spread of three slow/ricocheting yellow knives for another, and a larger number of parallel blue knives for a third. This could let you give each attack a role that IMO would be intuitive even to the most casual of gamers who's randomly handed a controller and starts pushing buttons to see what they do - attack 1 is strong but hard to hit with, attack 2 fills a wide area and makes it hard for enemies to pass through, and attack 3 is a reliable way to get in lots of hits. It could be reinforced by playing the knife-throwing SFX at a lower pitch for attack 1, to make it sound "heavy".
Concentrating more or less power into each individual knife also lets you give them a greater range of priorities (assuming you're using SSB mechanics for that).
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What I'm hearing on stream is that you want to nail down some canon personalities and interactions for story modes. If ever you need some advising or critique on this stuff, post in Misc Questions (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16752.0.html) for whatever questions that you might have, or in a separate thread on TARC. I'd be happy to help and others probably will as well.
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Inchlings of the Shining Needle ~ Little Princess and Yuuka HYPE
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There's a stream going on?
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They've been streaming a tournament going on at Touhoucon for the past few hours. http://www.twitch.tv/touhoucon'
Insane last match. Oh man.
Notes:
- During the last match Sakuya attacked the stage edge and bonked off of it really far, possible glitch.
- I've been talking about the dair spike the whole time and I think that at the core of my complaints, it's the trajectory that I dislike; it should be changed much closer to vertical. You can perform the spike even while on-stage basically for free, and depending on height the opponent can be spiked even when they've made it back above the stage. Spikes shouldn't kill when everyone is still on the stage, that's silly.
- Fsmash's downwards trajectory is pretty broken. At reasonable percentages it pushes you off the edge and you just plummet downwards. These two moves have been quite a source of awkward KOs throughout the tournament.
- Ledges might need just a tiny tiny bit more reach. It seems even more strict than Melee's ledges as it is now.
- Hitboxes seem a bit wonky, as do some knockbacks, whereas hitstun seems to be pretty nonexistent. I assume these will be worked on. Another guy described it as "janky", I think that's pretty accurate.
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Inchlings of the Shining Needle ~ Little Princess and Yuuka HYPE
were they
were they confirmed during the stream?
or just the possibility of them?
don't play with my emotions drake
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The 3rd, 2nd and 1st place winners of the tournament got to respectively pick a music track, a stage, and a character to be in the game. We got
Inchlings of the Shining Needle ~ Little Princess
Pandemonium (Mystic Square)
and Yuuka
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Praise the first-placer.
The game looks really good and your progressing at an amazing speed.
But please don't overwork yourself, kay? (I've been told that myself and know how it is to be passionately working on a project.)
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I wasn't able to participate in the tournament because I had to go home since I live an hour away, but I think I was one of the first people to play the demo after it was set up, so that was really cool. During the one match that I played, there was some thing with Sakuya floating above the corner of the platform for about 3 seconds and another where I was kept in hitstun for around 5 hits with her side-smash(at least, that's what I think it was). It was pretty cool to talk with you, too.
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Damn I wish I knew before hand, would have been fun to watch. How many people participated?
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I was watching the stream for the game at TouhouCon and was quite impressed with how it's coming along!
Do you have any plans for music to include in the game? Incidentally, a friend of mine and are interested in possibly helping create tracks to contribute to your game, if you would like. They would probably be mainly arranges of Touhou songs, but I think we're also capable of original tracks. I can show you a few samples of what I'm capable of if you'd like, as I'm actually making the OST for a Touhou fangame of my own.
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I think Komiji Records is helping make music right now if I recall.
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This was my first ever Con, and I have to say, thanks to everyone who was there for making this the best part of my life I have ever experienced. Between the Tournament, and just talking 1 on 1 with other touhou fans, and 1 on 1 with people who were actually FSS fans, it was awesome.
I'll try to post videos still, though for now I am going on a hiatus for progressive dev videos, since TSSB was my priority for the past 20 days, I need to catch up on schoolwork at least for the next 2 weeks.
Coming soon, are some videos where I recap my expirence at TouhouCon in general, another where I talk about my experiences in the gaming room with the tournament and address some of the twitch comments. A repost of the TSSB tourney stream, and posts of the music provided by the Scary Sheet Ghost used in the Alpha that was in the tourney.
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I finally got around to shortening her knife!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkvNLCOhccU&index=34&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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Huh, I never saw the length of her knife as an issue.
It looked good before the change but either is fine.
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I also saw no issue, but I kept on getting complaints about it from various people.
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When I get at least 3 characters done, I want to make a seg on my website that copies the format of Sakurai's official smash page:
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/266/1/7/sakuya_tssb_by_saijeehiguchi-d80bh8m.png)
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Loving the authentic look of it! Also great choice of using a bat for the symbol, really fits!
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Thanks, speaking of authentic:
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/267/7/3/gui_looking_great__by_saijeehiguchi-d80cud0.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvmyF9Vxhnk&index=36&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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Personally I'm not too keen on the idea of voice-acting since that can go horribly wrong.
I'm thinking of the voice-mod for SWR here, which I personally really don't like but that's also due to some sound-clipping issues that thing has which here won't be happening.
But it's also something similar to a book -> movie adaptation and the book's characters' and locations' appearance. Most people have their own idea about how someone in a book looks
and in the same way most people have their own voice for each character in their head.
I know there already have been many works with voice-acting for Touhou but just know that you should be really careful with it.
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I thought the Soku voiec mod was bad. I am very specific when it comes to voice direction, and wouldn't allow for anything on that level to pass.
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You also planning on adding a announcer voice like SSB?
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I thought the Soku voiec mod was bad. I am very specific when it comes to voice direction, and wouldn't allow for anything on that level to pass.
If I recall it was very hit or miss for me. Personally I would be ok with voice acting for the most part as long as it is toggleable.
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IMO the first requirement to good VA performance is that it must not sound annoying. And yea it would be togglable.
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So, the only thing left to do for Sakura is her spellcard(s?), right? Do you already have an idea on what it's going to be?
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I am actually trying to get a few other things in to the game before getting there, right now, specifically, blade trail effects. And yea I have a few ideas for her spell cards.
But I also need to implement 3 other new abilities into the game.
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For anyone who want's to help out this project, since I've been getting a lot of messages about that topic, I made this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PClrS6BKhBU
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So would you suggest that we post things here? I've been working on something for a few weeks but it's not quite ready yet.
Btw I just need a reminder but the confirmed character so far are Sakuya, Reimu, Tenshi, and Yuuka right? That's all the one I remember, it's for the thing I'm working on. (whether it'll be good or not is beyond me but I still want to try)
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Anywhere that I can read/find then you may post.
Those are the confirmed playable. Though other characters confirmed to appear:
Meiling appears up front in the stage "Meiling's Gate" (the SDM gate)
Utsuho appears in the background of the stage "Blazing Hell" generating her blazing sun.
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So the confirmed characters are Sakuya, Reimu, Tenshi, USC (I typed SDM at first :P)
The confirmed stages are Pandemonium, SDM gate, Blazing Hell
Here shortly, I'll have a Magus Night remix/arrange/whatever up for you in the might-be-less-likely-than-I'm-imagining event that Marisa will be in the roster or somewhere. Now I'm heavily tempted to take a whack at Dolls of Misery, too...
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Don't forget Yuuka! She got into the roster thanks to the Tourney Champion: LoreCreations.
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Don't forget Yuuka! She got into the roster thanks to the Tourney Champion: LoreCreations.
As if anyone else could be our USC :)
Well, I've got your Magus Night remix here. Complete with ZUNpets, a symphonic metal kind of motif, key changes, and a loop point halfway in. YouTube uploader was being an ass, so I had to stick it up on Mediafire instead. At least now you don't have to convert it :)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/hvh6z3gz5axft87/Black_Magic.mp3
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Well, I've got your Magus Night remix here. Complete with ZUNpets, a symphonic metal kind of motif, key changes, and a loop point halfway in. YouTube uploader was being an ass, so I had to stick it up on Mediafire instead. At least now you don't have to convert it :)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/hvh6z3gz5axft87/Black_Magic.mp3
I like the way this is sounding. Not too fond of the guitar instrument used but it's not bad. The strings and choir go together well with everything surprisingly and I can definitely get a symphonic vibe from it. The ZUNpet, though, I'm a little iffy on. When it's together with the rest of the instruments it sounds about as epic as usual, but when it's by itself it sounds very.....dry if you know what I mean. It reminds me of what happens when I try to use the Touhou Soundfont ZUNpet without any added reverb. Is that what you are doing for the ZUNpet instrument in this song?
Ultimately, I think it sounds pretty good but could probably still be a little better.
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Well, I've got your Magus Night remix here. Complete with ZUNpets, a symphonic metal kind of motif, key changes, and a loop point halfway in. YouTube uploader was being an ass, so I had to stick it up on Mediafire instead. At least now you don't have to convert it :)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/hvh6z3gz5axft87/Black_Magic.mp3
I like it, the beginning was a bit jarring and sounded rough but once you got other sounds in it sounded pretty good.
Grr... My parts gonna have to wait, got the flu and my throat is in no condition to do what I wanted. What kind of game modes are you gonna have?
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Yea it sounds very nice and clear.
Modes?
Single
-Training
-Story (Short Stories, that allow you to play as any character for character specific short stories)
-Adventure (The game's mains story that only lets you play as the main characters)
-Break the Targets
Multi
-Stock-Time Match
-Shoot'em Up: Kinda like multimen, except defeated enemies drop point and power pellets, and the player with highest score in time wins.
-Master Fighter: Players are awarded for stringing together true-combos, longer combos multiply the points gained. First to reach a goal wins.
-Stamina Battle: HP based battles on stages that have no ring outs
-Co-op Story Mode
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-Shoot'em Up: Kinda like multimen, except defeated enemies drop point and power pellets, and the player with highest score in time wins.
Sounds like a Coin Battle...
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Sorta, not really. In Coin battle you hit other players and they drop coins. In this game mode, enemies appear on the screen, and drop pellets after you shoot them to death.
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As if anyone else could be our USC :)
Well, I've got your Magus Night remix here. Complete with ZUNpets, a symphonic metal kind of motif, key changes, and a loop point halfway in. YouTube uploader was being an ass, so I had to stick it up on Mediafire instead. At least now you don't have to convert it :)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/hvh6z3gz5axft87/Black_Magic.mp3
This is a little too harsh-sounding and it clips from start to finish... Your mix is almost flatlining.
http://i.imgur.com/kKeM4BI.png
IMO it's also a little too close to the original. To me it's closer to what you could call a cover than an arrange. (the later is the word you're looking for, a remix involves grabbing a finished recording and modifying it. (http://comeonandsl.am/))
Clipping is bad. When you render your music to a file, everything above 0dB is violently clipped off, causing an unnatural loss of dynamic range and some nasty sounding distortion. You wont hear this in your DAW because they all handle audio at a 32-bit resolution internally, which eliminates clipping for the most part. Never allow your music to go above 0dB before rendering, and always listen to the finished track on an audio player before uploading to make sure there's nothing wrong with it.
On the topic of dynamics, imagine your music as a triangle with your listener facing it at the top. The sounds at the bottom sound quieter, more distant. The sounds at the top are louder and feel closer. The bottom of the triangle is wider, so you are able to fit a lot of low volume sounds in there, while you can fit less and less sounds the higher (louder) they go inside this triangle. Thinking like this will not only help you keep clipping easy to manage, it will also give your music a deeper and more interesting soundstage. I listened to some of your other tracks and most of them sound kinda flat because all of the instruments are loud. In this mix in particular, there's not a lot going on so there's no need to make everything so loud. Even at a low volume most of the sounds would still be clearly audible.
As for the trumpet, if you don't own the real synth it's probably best to not use it at all. What you're using is a thin-sounding, expressionless, poorly recorded copy of the original. It doesn't matter how many effects you use, it just doesn't have the same power. Of course you're the one doing the music so you're free to use any sound you want regardless of what people say, but I think you would get better results if you used a different sound.
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stuff
I had a good thorough listen both in FL Studio before rendering and to the processed mp3 immediately after rendering, and again just now. If anything had come out sounding not the way I'd intended, I would have certainly detected it in the pre-rendering stage and fixed it then. I'll keep the triangle bit in mind for future reference, though. I for one believe it came out just as I envisioned, but my ideal and yours may not necessarily be the same. In either case, the input is appreciated :)
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(sorry that this is getting offtopic)
If it sounds the way you intended, you really need to compare it side-by-side with a professionally mixed song, because even when you've got only one or two instruments playing it's deafening. I don't even really mind the instrumentation or other elements, but the way you've handled volume and clipping is just objectively wrong.
Stuff like Soundgoodizer and Maximus are common culprits for this type of problem, usually used as a band-aid fix for muddy sound. They're easily abused when you're thinking about individual instruments and not the overall mix.
Suggestions:
1) Use subtle panning and EQ to separate your instruments, before anything else.
2) Prioritize which ones need to stand out the most, instead of making everything louder.
3) When a new instrument comes in, compensate by reducing volume elsewhere (moreso on background instruments than the lead).
4) You only need a single Maximus on the master mixing channel most of the time. Using it on individual instruments is unnecessary. Clear Master preset with added stereo on mids and reduce stereo on lows is a good starting point. Soundgoodizer is just a Maximus preset, and should be avoided to be honest.
EDIT:
My apologies if I insulted or discouraged you with this post. My criticism is strictly focused on the volume issue, and I actually like the song aside from that.
About comparing to a professional mix: I have no expectation that anyone here be as good as a professional; that would be highly unfair. However, certain problems like volume are simply hard to show without a reference point.
When I use "objectively wrong", I'm not referring to a matter of taste or even saying the song is bad (and I'm certainly not an authority on good composition). What I'm saying is I believe that the volume is a technical error. It's like if you drew a character holding a sword the wrong way. You might be happy with the artwork regardless if it's right or wrong. You might want to sacrifice realism for style. You might be purposely drawing a character as inept with a sword. However, not knowing this, I'll make the assumption that you would have drawn the character in a proper stance but didn't know better. In this case, I think you were aiming for loud, but overshot into needlessly loud.
Regardless, as Saijee stated, you are your own boss. I gave some unnecessarily harsh constructive criticism, and it's up to you whether you value that criticism and think that the changes would help make the song something you enjoy better.
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1) Use subtle panning and EQ to separate your instruments, before anything else.
2) Prioritize which ones need to stand out the most, instead of making everything louder.
3) When a new instrument comes in, compensate by reducing volume elsewhere (moreso on background instruments than the lead).
4) You only need a single Maximus on the master mixing channel most of the time. Using it on individual instruments is unnecessary. Clear Master preset with added stereo on mids and reduce stereo on lows is a good starting point. Soundgoodizer is just a Maximus preset, and should be avoided to be honest.
4 I follow faithfully (the single Maximus part) but I'm still learning how some of the plugins work, Maximus itself being among them.
1 I often do, but I haven't done any music in a while so it must've slipped my mind
I'll keep 2 and 3 in mind for future works (not among them is the track that's been rendering pretty much all day)
Keep in mind that there are 7-billion humans on the planet; writing a song or remix/arrange/cover/whatever that satisfies all of them would be impossible. Also keep in mind that, as I said, I'm still a bit rusty from not having done any music in a while, so of course the small things that make big differences will probably be forgetfully neglected. I'm also far from a professional, so comparing anything of mine with a professionally-mixed song would most likely fall a bit short of fair. Like comparing an average gamer with an MLG player.
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It's like page 5 all over again.
There is literally no reasons to compare anything about this project to professional works I'm sure that UnendingEmpire just wants his right to celibate Touhou as much as any other fan, so let him act on his passions.
As I said in the video, since I'm nobody's boss and I don't want to pretend to be, I feel that there should be no pressure to conform to anyone's disappointment/satisfaction other than your own. Do things the way they make you happy.
If anyone has a problem with the way his music sounds, there will probably be a ton of other Marisa tracks that will randomly play in the same context like in normal smash, If you take issue with his composition, then you could set it off, but the chances are, someone else will be quite fond of his work. So let him do things how he wants to for those hypothetical future players.
If you still feel so compelled to remark your lack of appreciation for his work, and must criticize: three things:
1) Say it nicely!
2) Make sure it is constructive criticism!
3) Bring it up as a friendly suggestion and not a condescending command.
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apology
Oh, there's no need to apologize ^_^; I've dealt with far worse criticism before, and to see that your only issue was with the volume means I can heartily reply with "I could have a quieter version up in mere minutes if you'd like."
Speaking of my compositions, though, after literally a day's worth of rendering, I've brought another one for you, Saijee. This one did come out deafeningly loud at first (moreso than the Magus Night one; I couldn't even bear it at its original volume) so I toned down the volume some. Since Pandemonium was confirmed as a stage, figured I'd go for Doll of Misery.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/r0w4r60k3voqp71/Makai+Symphony.mp3
So, how bout this new site layout? :O
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Speaking of my compositions, though, after literally a day's worth of rendering, I've brought another one for you, Saijee. This one did come out deafeningly loud at first (moreso than the Magus Night one; I couldn't even bear it at its original volume) so I toned down the volume some. Since Pandemonium was confirmed as a stage, figured I'd go for Doll of Misery.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/r0w4r60k3voqp71/Makai+Symphony.mp3
A huge step forward from the last song IMO. Doll of Misery is a perfect choice for this kind of arrange, and it would really fit a Pandemonium stage. The high frequencies on the organ could be made softer as they overshadow the other instruments, but the idea is solid. The mix of the strings and choir is really excellent as well.
Anyways, I just finished a song as well, Misty Lake Medley (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15870353/songs/Misty%20Lake%20Medley.mp3). The accordion is a bit cliche and it barely qualifies as a "medley", but it should work well for a lively outdoor stage :V
Next is a Reimu song...
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Sounds pretty good!
I'm actually working on Reimu's model right now. I also gave Sakuya a few cards. What are important item details for Reimu?
All I can think of atm are: Her gohei, ofuda and yin-yang orbs.
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You mean items used in her attacks, or items that can be picked up? If the first then there's her Persuasion Needle (probably works best like this (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody/Spell_Cards/Reimu_Hakurei#Skill_Card_7)), her giant square ofuda and her barriers; the last two could potentially use the same texture with different in-engine tints.
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Thanks for reminding me about those.
Here's Reimu for you:
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/278/d/f/reimu_confirmed_for_tssb_by_saijeehiguchi-d81reyo.png)
Sorry for the lack of actual game dev and logs, I'll be finished with midterns on tuesday.
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And one of the two characters I'm anticipating.
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This seems really interesting~. I'm looking forwardto see it complete.
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It's only about 40% done as of yet, but here's a Ten Desires medley-in-progress. Currently features Shoutoku Legend ~ True Administrator and Legend of the Great Gods, but I plan to also add Rigid Paradise and maybe The Lost Emotion, then have it all loop back round to Shoutoku Legend.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/oy0bq59768p3idb/Ten+Desires+%28preview%29.mp3
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Here is an alt pallet for, it's more close to her well known traditional outfit:
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/282/1/c/reimu_traditional_pallet_by_saijeehiguchi-d825sqh.png)
I would however like to also give her an alt costume that is actually modeled after an official outfit of hers.
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You could go with one of her PC98 outfits. Complete with ...Mmpfft~ Purple Hair. (hehe)
Or go really obscure and give her one of the outfits she's wearing in the endings of the PC98 games. :V
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A traditional miko outfit could also be a good alt. costume. Although that's pretty much what her PC-98 garb is, I suppose.
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formally requesting a zombie reimu costume
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formally requesting a zombie reimu costume
Seconding this movement.
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Remember when I said that I could have unlimted alts if I wanted?....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIarFAoIpCM
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You know, you might as well give us a color edit mode so we can run with it. :V
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I also second a color edit mode. If such a thing is possible.
Be it possible or not, I finished up the Ten Desires medley I was planning to give you. Didn't get to add Old Yuanxen or The Lost Emotion like I'd initially wanted to, but that's beside the point.
Sadly, due to time constraints, I won't be able to start rendering the mp3 file until tomorrow. But I can tell you it totals in at 62 patterns (only because I started doing lots of multi-instrument patterns near the end for sanity's sake), 12 instruments (all but two of which appear in the preview a little higher up on this page), and about 6 and a half minutes before hitting the loop point. All of these are personal new records.
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Cool as it may sound, it is not within my current skill level to do that... Though the next Touhou fan game that we have planned will definitely have it.
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CK Crash, can I post your Misty Lake on today's dev log?
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You can use my songs for whatever you'd like, as long as you don't claim that you made them. I did a slight volume tweak, so I'll link that revision here in a sec.
EDIT:
Misty Lake Medley (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15870353/songs/Misty%20Lake%20Medley.mp3)
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OK what the Title for the game again? I need for my terrible idea I'm working on.
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Oh yea mean *give credit* yea, I'll do that, just like with Komeiji and Sheet Ghost:
I was thinking that when a match starts a foot note tells you the title of the song and the arranger of the composition.
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The title is "Touhou Super Smash Battles"
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Taunts are in TSSB!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ111hBbdKs
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Got another song for ya, Saijee. This thing was a beast to proofread.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/jpm8zg1xcq36ddh/Triple+Taoism.mp3
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I wonder who will be Master Hand's substitute. Shikieiki, perhaps...?
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Random thought on a playable Kanako: Her Down+B causes her to sit down, effectively turning her into an immobile turret. While in this state she's pretty much the opposite of Soku's Suwako - powerful and easy to use, but extremely predictable to experienced players (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SkillGateCharacters). And if you use it at the wrong time on a non-static stage, you're likely to KO yourself by accident (which seems pretty Kanako :V).
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K guys, I didn't yet post an update on TSSB because people have been wanting to hear what I have to say about SSB4, soo I've been writing the script for my mega analysis video, that is done now, and it is 10 pages long.
I'll be recording today and editing tomorrow, Hopefully I can find some time to get at least 1 more taunt for Sakuya in the mean time.
Anyway, look forward to our mega analysis.
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Alright guys, this video took loads of work to make, but now that that's over, it's back to the normal development, hope you enjoy this vid though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnkCixr37ZU&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=47
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Soooo, Nintendo called. They said they like From Soy Sauce, and now I can develop games for the Wii U! Childhood Dream Accomplished!
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That's amazing! Congrats!
Also I have a short victory thing of Tenshi's theme that I'll upload when I'm not being wrecked by school and/or sidetracked by SSB4, and I'll try to get something done as soon as I can for stage BGM or something.
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Soooo, Nintendo called. They said they like From Soy Sauce, and now I can develop games for the Wii U! Childhood Dream Accomplished!
Wait could this mean that tssb could be on the Wii u or will you be restricted by zuns policy on that?
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Soooo, Nintendo called. They said they like From Soy Sauce, and now I can develop games for the Wii U! Childhood Dream Accomplished!
Holy hell man, that's amazing! Congratulations!
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Wait could this mean that tssb could be on the Wii u or will you be restricted by zuns policy on that?
Only time will tell for sure. I've got to put my best effort forward to get this game to grab the attention of as many Touhou fans all around the world. I'm thinking I might be able to sway ZUN to let this game go onto the Wii U if I can show how much the world wants it to be so.
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Well this is going to be the most embarrassing thing I've done so far. So I've came up with the idea that I should record some lines for the game as a Announcer like SSB has, I've spent weeks getting my vocals deeper then what I normally do and just listened to the announcers voices from all the smash games. This demo reel I have is just three versions of the title name, I have a few others done like characters but not sure if I should really go with the deep voice or not. Also not even sure if your interested in having a announcer Saijee but just wanted to try my hand in it.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/jvwzeadotxfj3jj/TSSBDemoReel.wav
The second one sounds a bit odd and battles sounds weird but I'm still getting use to yelling into the microphone, also sorry about the effect on it, I've been looking for how to make the voice effect from the smash games and with no luck I came up with that. Let the embarrassment ensue...
EDIT: Also I don't mind trying different levels either, I picked the deep one to try and stay with how ssb is.
EDIT: Opps just listened to my own recording and heard that I left my breathing in the beginning, I'm not use to using audacity normally.
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Your voice is surprisingly similar to the SSB annoucer!
Both the second and third versions sound great, I think.
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Hehehe, I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I actually already have someone doing the announcer's voice.
The latest TSSB video has way surpassed it's expectations, managed to get me 51 new subs, and just look at that viewcount:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66VO_5yqe00
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Your voice is surprisingly similar to the SSB annoucer!
Both the second and third versions sound great, I think.
Thank you for the feedback I greatly appreciate any at all, though when I listen to it I still feel I could do better lol.
Hehehe, I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I actually already have someone doing the announcer's voice.
Well it was worth a shot I guess. Will we get a sample down the line or will we know when the game/demo is done?
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Got a new Laptop.
Also I'm confirming a new stage. It's called "Sakuya's World" Make of that what you will.
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sakuya confirmed for timelord tier :V
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Seeing this spell card come out looking just as well as it did in the official game, I am very excited to see just what kind of new gameplay this game mechanic will deliver!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfJ6mVxced4&index=57&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
And here is the rest:
Touhou Smash Sakuya's SPELL CARDS!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIoA-8wETFI&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=58
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I'm preparing the IGG page tonight. Would anybody be willing to help with campaign graphics, things like banners and charts. That would be grand, because then I would be able to focus my attention on the game design without having to balance extra work, which would mean a more complete Demo for January.
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Is there a example of what it is I may be able to help.
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The Spell Card duel video was amazing. It's really impressive how you actually managed to make the spellcards very useful attacks that are still not OP since they can be either dodged or destroyed.
All that's left to do for Sakuya is her Final Smash, right?
Can't wait to see how the other characters will play.
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Final smash or Last Word eh? Idk just being silly.
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Last Word seems less... "out of nowhere C&D"-y, if you know what I mean. If it's listed with their Specials then SSB fans will get the gist of it anyway.
On a completely different note, do you think you could extend Sakuya's curtsy taunt slightly so that she holds the pose for longer?
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Yup and with "Sakuya's World" She is mechanically finished!
I really wanted this attack to make the player feel like they were role playing Sakuya: really give them the feeling that they are doing Sakuya's job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4CuGsJAS9E
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To clarify things: You are only allowed to use your spell card 1 time per battle. And if you get intercepted during the buffer animation, you will have wasted it
Wait, so that means that spellcard duel video isn't how the game's gonna play? Or does this apply only to moves like "Sakuya's World"?
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Ooops.... Yea I meant final smash.... FIXED IT!
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So did you need help with banners and charts or not? I have yet to get a answer back.
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Yea this guy contacted me via the FSS facebook page, it should be fine!
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Guess I was too late then, still I'm always willing to help with what ever I can.
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Got chibis?
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On Sakuya's Final Smash, there's two things I think could make it cooler. First make the clock so massive that it covers the entire background of the stage, zooming the camera out to SSB's "Fixed" position so that you can see it clearly. Second pause the music while time is stopped (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgfzGDBwgAc&t=1m), and have the ticking first double then quadruple as the Final Smash is about to end (like the SFX when you press a time-based switch in Mario or Zelda).
On another topic... since the characters' strengths and weaknesses need to be described somewhere, what about adding a built-in Character Database... themed after the Grimoire of Marisa? Marisa herself appears at the side of the screen, and all the descriptions of characters and their moves are done from her perspective. Maybe with Akyuu or Rinnosuke occasionally helping out. I mean, assuming you don't just put them in Smash Taunts. :V
Sanae: Pit! Sakuya may have a lot of knives, but they lack power. If you use a strong projectile, you can break through them and really ruin her day.
Tenshi: I... what? Who are you? And who the heck is Pit?
Sanae: Aww, you're no fun. I thought celestials were supposed to spend all day following the orders of gods and goddesses. I mean I didn't even get to be playable this time; at least let me have this....
Tenshi: Seriously, I have no idea who you are.
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Got chibis?
Not sure I fully understand, are you asking if I've drawn any chibi characters or can draw chibi?
Sadly I'm no where ready to put my art in public, still working on it till I'm satisfied with my own work, the only art I have experience in are UI, banners, websites, and other things similar to those like signatures and what not.
On Sakuya's Final Smash, there's two things I think could make it cooler. First make the clock so massive that it covers the entire background of the stage, zooming the camera out to SSB's "Fixed" position so that you can see it clearly. Second pause the music while time is stopped (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgfzGDBwgAc&t=1m), and have the ticking first double then quadruple as the Final Smash is about to end (like the SFX when you press a time-based switch in Mario or Zelda).
Seconded!
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Third!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9kpvm69Ia8&index=65&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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It looks fantastic.
The only complaint I have is the length of the attack. 18 seconds feels like an eternity in a fighting game.... I think 10 seconds tops would be more acceptable.
Then again, it IS a single use attack...
How do you use these attacks, btw? Is it through a "smash ball" or are there other requirements to unleash it?
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Just some SSB3ds SSBB observations:
Wario = 17sec
G & W = 15sec
ZSS = 16sec
Little Mac 15sec
Bowser 13sec
Fox 13sec
Falco 13sec
Pikachu 14sec
Charizard 17sec
Pacman 14sec
Sonic 13sec
Snake [SSBB] = 24sec
To do a final Smash you just press L+B
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Looking at the time for the smash attacks in SSB and then Sakuya's I think it feels longer (despite yes being 18 seconds) is an illusion from the music and character actions.
Most of the attacks Saijee mentioned have the music still playing and character movement and actions are either faster or stay the same but flashy, it feels like your making progress. Snakes honestly never felt like 24 seconds, never bothered to count either, but your constantly attacking at a consistent rate and doesn't feel slowed down, that's the illusion. On the other hand FS attacks like Fox and Falco's feels slower then snakes since the landmaster is slow to attack, that's just how I felt anyway.
With sakuya you stop all action, music, it just feels long due to the effects used for her FS.
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Hey there! I read throughout the entire topic and wanted to say that this is really great looking project so far.
I may be a bit late on the topic, but if I could just throw it in still as a thought,
I'd love to see Orin appear as a playable character. I feel that she's the most underappreciated key plot character from SA (being a stage 5 even), often being overshadowed by Utsuho, Yuugi or Koishi and hardly ever featured as a cool boss in fanprojects.
And that while she has so much cool stuff to work with! Zombie fairies, evil spirits, flaming chariot wheels, a cat form, a mountain of needles, and best of all, a wheelbarrow. Personally I think a wheelbarrow rushing move like Komachi's boat spellcards in the touhou fighters would be just great.
Maybe I have stirred some minds with these thoughts, maybe not and that's fine. I'm sure everything is bound to be awesome in the end after all!
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Hey there! I read throughout the entire topic and wanted to say that this is really great looking project so far.
I may be a bit late on the topic, but if I could just throw it in still as a thought,
I'd love to see Orin appear as a playable character. I feel that she's the most underappreciated key plot character from SA (being a stage 5 even), often being overshadowed by Utsuho, Yuugi or Koishi and hardly ever featured as a cool boss in fanprojects.
And that while she has so much cool stuff to work with! Zombie fairies, evil spirits, flaming chariot wheels, a cat form, a mountain of needles, and best of all, a wheelbarrow. Personally I think a wheelbarrow rushing move like Komachi's boat spellcards in the touhou fighters would be just great.
Maybe I have stirred some minds with these thoughts, maybe not and that's fine. I'm sure everything is bound to be awesome in the end after all!
I am not even a Orin fanatic but this post convinced me.
She really has a lot of attacks that could be worked with!...
Oh yeah BTW I have also read the entire thread and I don't have much to say except that this is looking freaking AWESOME people! (I actually already did comment via Youtube and even subscribed don't worry).
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On those new VFX (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZGox4TLQyw)...
While they definitely look cool, the shockwaves seem excessively large for basic jabs and tilts (and it could get confusing if characters like Youmu or Momiji have ranged attacks that look like shockwaves). Also their smoothness clashes with the rather polygonal blade trails.
The hitflashes for melee attacks are fine, but for projectiles they look like they're disappearing before they make contact. The aerial throws also look kind of strange, since the Sakuyas are far outside the hitflash for most of the time it's on the screen (and the collision flash at 1:53 might look better if it was just in front of the thrower).
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Just some SSB3ds SSBB observations:
Wario = 17sec
G & W = 15sec
ZSS = 16sec
Little Mac 15sec
Bowser 13sec
Fox 13sec
Falco 13sec
Pikachu 14sec
Charizard 17sec
Pacman 14sec
Sonic 13sec
Snake [SSBB] = 24sec
Yeah, but none of those attacks involves the other players being stuck and unable to do anything at all for their duration. Some of these are just transfromations too, which kinda have to have a longer duration so that some damage can actually be done.
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Yeah, but none of those attacks involves the other players being stuck and unable to do anything at all for their duration. Some of these are just transfromations too, which kinda have to have a longer duration so that some damage can actually be done.
True, and all of those attacks can miss where as stopping time you are pretty much guaranteed to hit them. But not sure if being able to always hit them but can only use it once per match is really a good way to go about it, if Sakuya's is like this then all the other characters need to be able to do the same for balance purposes.
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I'd like to pose the argument that they do involve the player not being able to do anything, only that it is masked with the illusion that they can do something. Almost all of the mentioned final smashes are nearly guaranteed KO that don't allow the user to take any damage.
Sakuya's final smash actually isn't a guaranteed hit, not even if you do her final smash immediately after an up-throw. On the contrary, if the player is paying attention to the positioning of all the knives, they can use that time to formulate an escape plan, just like in EoSD.
On top of that, Sakuya's FS has no kill potential on it's own.
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To be honest its a bit to really notice that, it looked like they all homed in on the character, even the up special which I had assumed would go straight up but didn't. Its tough to know something does one thing when all you have is a few minute video to go off of, I mean your making this game so you know all there is to know how it work. Unless you said something I'd have thought you can't dodge it, maybe in your next FS video you could show how it works but also show how to beat it like you did with sakuyas spell cards.
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Sakuya's final smash actually isn't a guaranteed hit, not even if you do her final smash immediately after an up-throw. On the contrary, if the player is paying attention to the positioning of all the knives, they can use that time to formulate an escape plan, just like in EoSD.
Couldn't Sakuya hit the player with a move with decent hitstun so escape could be nigh impossible, at the cost of a few seconds to launch knives?
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I'd like to pose the argument that they do involve the player not being able to do anything, only that it is masked with the illusion that they can do something. Almost all of the mentioned final smashes are nearly guaranteed KO that don't allow the user to take any damage.
Well, I don't play competitively so I can't comment on that. For many casual players they are certainly not guaranteed KO's =P
Still, it's not the guaranteed KO or something like that that I was commenting on; it's the "put your controller down and go drink something" factor of having to wait 18 seconds having nothing to do but stare at your enemy place knives all around. I just think it's a pretty big pause in gameplay. And imagine if there's more than one Sakuya fighting, and all of them pull off their final smash. Worst case scenario (4 Sakuyas) there was a whole minute in the match where only one of the characters could move around at all.
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@ Agent Emerald, no because you are only allowed to use projectiles during the final smash.
@ Colticide, I want to do a free for all but its hard to get both of my bros in the same spot at the same time.
@Well I don't really know much about how casual players play, but competitive players are always focused on the battle no matter what the status their character is in. Similarly doing just that during Sakuya's final smash could make it or break it for you if you use those 18 seconds correctly planning your escape.
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Yeah that's understandable, are you playing the part of both players in your videos?
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Yeah that's understandable, are you playing the part of both players in your videos?
I think so. I remember him making a comment about how hard it is to do certain commands between two controllers.
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Having now seen the Final Smash on an actual match, I changed my mind about it's length. Seems fine to me now.
The whole thing looks really great with all the effects. You are doing a really outstanding job.
Are you going to focus on making all the initial playable characters (there are six right) before starting to work on stages?
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I nearly forgot another little detail almost as important as special effects I need to add to Sakuya. The Stop Motion-esque animations.
This appears for the faces of Brawl characters, it also appears in the faces AND hands of SSB3DS characters.
Basically the idea is that things like blinking and different hands come in like interchangeable parts for home made stop motion.
Though, tonight I did manage to sperate Sakuya from the template maiden, so that's good.
Shade is working on some stages right now. So they will be co-developed with the confirmed characters (4 not 6).
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Hey Saijee quick question if I may. I was watching the last video and was wondering how you make the SFX anmations? Are they a whole image that plays one the trigger activates or is it more complicated then that? Same thing for the FS clock image as well.
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No frame-by-frame animation:
Usually I do it this way:
A shrinking Star
A growing ring
2-4 Random flying sparks
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So is that your engine making those move I assume?
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spin, move, scale and fade.
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So... in the fight video Sakuya charges a Final Smash in midair then falls, causing her magic circle to stay in midair and move out of view of the camera. And without the magic circle it's not particularly clear what she's doing. Could the circle be adjusted so that it stays attached to Sakuya as she moves?
Also, did you get my PM?
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Yes.
Yes, still thinking about it though.
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Just wondering, do you plan on having anybody help the project in terms of design or are you just exclusively looking for feedback and opinions on threads and whatnot?
Smash is one of my favorite competitive games and I've been attentively following your videos. However, I've noticed many peculiarities. I know you are designing this have a different design and metagame than Smash, especially with the blocking and projectile mechanics, but are you going to include stuff like Tech'ing or Smash/Block DI? Will you include mechanics like Jump-Cancelled Smash/B moves, and Jump-Cancelling Block? How do you feel about a weight mechanic affecting how characters flinch to projectiles (making specialized characters like sword based Youmu a more viable design option)? I think not having to L-cancel and manually wavedash is a completely viable design choice, but it might mean there are some other concerns that I'm not sure you feel like they need to be address, such as the presence of multiple auto-combos, even aerial ones with sakuya's floating, and that Up-Spellcard probably being a broken edgeguarding tool that another Sakuya can do nothing against. I know a game is meant to be fun than taking months of practice to play, but I feel like there way too many easy combos and edgeguarding, and I'm not sure if every character being able to do everything is a good thing.
Are you planning to have a greater depth in terms of character mechanics (which also means a higher learning difficulty curve, not necessarily a good thing), good examples would be like what Project M did: Ike being able to jump out of his Side-B allowing for incredible approach options for his sluggish movespeed and attacks turning him into one of the quickest characters if used right, Bowser being centered on superarmor, Squirtle with hydroplaning, Wolf's gameplay being central on spacing and juggling, etc.
I could write something 10x longer on why your game is FUCKING AWESOME so I hope that sentiment gets across. Other than that, I love your game and I'm really excited to see what kind of ideas you will pull out for other characters.
*Edited* Actually, I just started watching your Smash 4 video. I feel like many of what I'm asking has been completely conscious decisions on your part. If that's the case, I'm still interested in your response just so I can get an idea of what you are aiming for. What I'm most excited about this game is what kind of abilities you will end up giving different characters, since Touhou has a ridiculous lore and Sakuya already having a float, teleport and time stop, I can only imagine what Reimu or other characters will end up having.
Maybe Sakuya just looks imbalanced because all I've seen are just demonstration videos on a motionless AI. I might be completely wrong on that part lol
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Let me just make a list of special mechanics in this game (off the top of my head):
Straight out of Smash:
Tilt DI
Smash DI
Tech
Wall Jump Tech
Jump out of Shield
Wave Dash
Spike
Sour Spot
Moon Walk
Dash Dance
Simplified Smash mechanics:
Wave Dash (1 button)
L-Cancle (Hold L/R during landing lag of an aerial and the animation will speed up significantly, alternatively the landing lag can be immediately ended upon preforming any tilt, jump or wave-dash, but not a smash or a grab.)
C-Smash (If you are holding the C-Stick in a direction, and keep it held down, even in mid-animation, your maiden will try to do that smash attack as soon as she is free to do another animation)
Shield Break (ther is no shield meter so you can not break shields with normal attacks, but a "Clicked" smash will break shields)
Shield>Counter Attack (You can use any attack out of your "shield exit" animation, meaning it is very effective for countering non multi-hit attacks)
Character Dependent Animation-Cancel (All characters will have 1 move that can be canceled by another move, for Sakuya her side-b will immediately end if you hit down-b, but it comes at the cost of a short period where you cannot use any specials)
Air Dodge (technical air-dodge from melee, though a brawl like air dodge can be done with a neutral stick, but it's not a dodge, it is an air-block)
New Mechanics:
Perpetual Tilt (after doing one tilt or landing from an aerial, you will continue to automatically do tilts in whatever direction you have the stick held until you let go)
Perpetual Smash (Similar to perpetual tilt but with the C-Stick)
Aerial-double-jump-Cancel (If you land an air attack, you can cancel it with a jump)
Nair-Cancle: if you land a Nair, you can cancel it with any other aerial.
Pummel Block: time the L/R or A right when you are pummeled and you won't take damage
Skating (you move one direction while alternating the way you turn)
Mechanics From Smash that were cut:
Shield Shuffle (no orb)
Grab Escape (replaced with pummel block, trying to avoid mechanics that ask the player to button mash)
J-J-Jab (tapping the A button will not make you do your jab loop, you must hold it down)
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Wow this all sounds and looks amazing. I really hope this game gets finished someday! I'm no good at thinking fighting moves or the like, but playing Mystia (hopefully she makes it in) in a Smash type game is like a dream-come-true for me and I'm sure I'll enjoy it! :)
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I would also like to see a playable Mystia, though, what I would like doesn't exactly have a maximal dictation over the final roster. Sooo, we'll see.
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Alright guys! I'm done with finals, which means I can finally get back to resuming the dev show!
Also some pretty great news, someone offered to help make the graphic design for the indiegogo campaign banners. On a related note, Guuchama has agreed to offer her services as an illustrator to create 3 cute pictures, one for Reimu, one for Sakuya and one for Tenshi. Her facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/MoyashiHazTooMuchFreeTime
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You know I asked twice about the banners but was ignored. I know I'm no professional but a response would have been nice.
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The offer might of been buried in the thread or missed. An eyecatching example might of been a good way to grab attention. Sounds like people were busy with school and all too, but yea I'm guessing here. It's happen to me though, people somehow completely overlook my posts and are surprised later when I got more obnoxious about (why they ignored) it. ^^;
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Well I thought about making an example but I have no idea what they were looking for. And with no logo to work with making a banner gets limiting.
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Sorry about that, I still have yet to respond to a lot of people. School has been keeping me away from this project for a long time, which has been making it hard for me to find other extra time where I can respond to people proper.
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Another new song! This time, actually relevant to a character that Saijee is working on!
Hakurei Medley (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15870353/songs/Hakurei%20Medley.mp3)
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This seems cool! My main request is that you use a feast stage (Hakurei Shrine at night) and have Demystify Feast (or a remix of it) as the music.
Also, a character hopefully no one suggested yet...
Byaruken
Specials:
Neutral: "Star Maelstrom" Fires a small curving laser to both sides, can combo enemies, peters out eventually
Side: "Lotus Glide" Glides in the air (or on the ground) to the left, if less than 100% does much damage but little knockback, if more than 100% on enemy it does the opposite.
Up: Hijiri "Superhuman" Goes up in a Z-shape, gets a jump at the end, combos and takes enemies with her
Down: "Prayer" Similar to Deep Breathing in Smash 4 on Wii Fit Trainer, time it right and you get a temporary boost in Attack Power and Knockback.
Smashes:
Side: Creates a lotus (similar to Mario's side smash)
Up: Shrouds the area around her with purple bullets (Nirvana's Cloudy Way in Purple)
Down: Creates two lasers that go to each side of Byaruken and bounce off the ground into the sky.
*Couldn't think of aerials or tilts, sorry :V
Final Smash: "Devil's Recitation" Basically a recreation, all bullets deal 3% each, lasers deal lots of damage and knockback.
Side: Creates a lotus (similar to Mario's side smash) that does massive damage.
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Phew, OK guys I only have 1 more final, but I finally decided to make that 1000 sub special vid!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32wBeEipeK4&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=70
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Phew, OK guys I only have 1 more final, but I finally decided to make that 1000 sub special vid!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32wBeEipeK4&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S&index=70
Dang I gotta say I'm a bit moved by your video. You put in so much effort all these years and finally achieved that goal! You never really gave up on your dream, sadly I gave up halfway, seeing how unstable a job for game design was I got scared. Only last year did I make the decision to try becoming an idie dev. Seeing all your efforts made me see that I'm not working hard enough on my game and that I still have a long way to go! FSS going this far refills me with hope that I too can achieve my dream. Thank you Saijee.
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I am happy to hear that my video had that effect on you :) You are welcome!
Reimu has all of her normal attacks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLeAWmHwTzs&index=75&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
Now I must do her throws specials and spells.
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Reimu's normal attacks look great; love all the references to other games you put in the attacks.
The only criticism I'd have is that I think her hip is... uh, "swayed" too far in her idle pose. It looks kinda uncomfortable.
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I've got mixed feelings on Reimu's smash charge animations. :wat: I mean I can see what you're going for, and it looks kind of shaman-y even... but Reimu's supposed to be the type who's in perfect harmony with her surroundings, doing everything simply and effortlessly. I mean, to use Fantasy Nature all she has to do is close her eyes, so having her shake as if she can't contain her own power seems kind of odd. The way she leans back for her U-Smash also looks kind of... evil? ???
I do like the "hold the button to extend the reach of her aerials" mechanic - heck, I'd be interested to see more of her moves do this. Maybe holding N-Air makes her stick out her leg for longer? Holding B-Air (after connecting with it) causes her to swing around and make a followup attack?
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I'm wiping off the dust on my account since that inspiring-as-fuck story of Saijee's showing up in my subscription box on YouTube reminded me TSSB is a thing. But I'm also here to drop off another tune after so long like I said I would on the comments of said video. I doubt Raiko will make an appearance, but I also doubt anyone else has remixed her theme yet, so...here ya go :)
Primal Thunder (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/3sp8pxdmnr6oy4d/Primal+Thunder.mp3)
Looped over a couple times, as is standard fare from me ^_^
I wanted to not put too much in the foreground this time, as a means of making the percussion - what should be the heart of any Primordial Beat remix - more audible. It's also my first time using non-soundfont/non-plugin drums; the taiko samples were (apparently) taken from actual taiko drums, or at least that's what the uploader of the samples said. I'll admit, the taiko parts were fun to put together for how tedious they were to put together :)
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I'm wiping off the dust on my account since that inspiring-as-fuck story of Saijee's showing up in my subscription box on YouTube reminded me TSSB is a thing. But I'm also here to drop off another tune after so long like I said I would on the comments of said video. I doubt Raiko will make an appearance, but I also doubt anyone else has remixed her theme yet, so...here ya go :)
Primal Thunder (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/3sp8pxdmnr6oy4d/Primal+Thunder.mp3)
Looped over a couple times, as is standard fare from me ^_^
I wanted to not put too much in the foreground this time, as a means of making the percussion - what should be the heart of any Primordial Beat remix - more audible. It's also my first time using non-soundfont/non-plugin drums; the taiko samples were (apparently) taken from actual taiko drums, or at least that's what the uploader of the samples said. I'll admit, the taiko parts were fun to put together for how tedious they were to put together :)
I really like the sound of it, however it feels very calm, not very risky is the feeling I get. Taiko sounds are very fun to play with but they sound a bit drowned out, their Taiko drums! Make em loud, like real thunder! Make the sounds explode with emotion! The flute like instrument also seems slightly off putting, could be the sound differences from that to the other sounds used (not making very much sense lol sorry). However I still like none the less.
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I really like the sound of it, however it feels very calm, not very risky is the feeling I get. Taiko sounds are very fun to play with but they sound a bit drowned out, their Taiko drums! Make em loud, like real thunder! Make the sounds explode with emotion! The flute like instrument also seems slightly off putting, could be the sound differences from that to the other sounds used (not making very much sense lol sorry). However I still like none the less.
The point about the shakuhachi (the flute-like instrument) is actually well-made. Initially I'd planned to sort of blend electronic and Japanese elements, but it wound up being mostly the former. I'll probably end up re-rendering the song with the taikos taking more to center stage and swapping the shakuhachi out for...I dunno, maybe a saw wave.
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The point about the shakuhachi (the flute-like instrument) is actually well-made. Initially I'd planned to sort of blend electronic and Japanese elements, but it wound up being mostly the former. I'll probably end up re-rendering the song with the taikos taking more to center stage and swapping the shakuhachi out for...I dunno, maybe a saw wave.
You can always trying uploading a few examples of differences, I'll always gladly give them a listen. But I do respect what you do, I don't doubt that making music is difficult, just playing the piano is one thing but actually making it in digital format is very foreign to me so I respect those who do it. I may not know the exact terms or sounds or tools used but I'll try my best to explain what I mean.
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I really like that arrangement , it's got a cool paper mario feel to it.
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To hell with the modifications; I'll keep it as-is, with the shakuhachi. The rendering time on this thing is too long for such a small change. There's your Primordial Beat remix :) now to work on a shorter version for my YouTube channel.
(you can use it in your next Dev Log if you so desire, by the way; same applies for all the other songs I've brought you thus far)
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I love that pristine beat remix. It's one of the very few ones that actually have a strong taiko drumbeat going on, something I feel is essential with that theme.
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Reimu's combo game is a lot different than Sakuya's :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tajs4D3PMZQ&feature=gp-n-o&google_comment_id=z13iwvw4lmzoefrl022xdze5lquojp0cg
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Fixed up some animation glitches, and got some of her special moves half done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFGjqbW3tys&index=77&list=PLaDd9276h4ZDo3RgOFGfcRbw7mUTScQ4S
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(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/361/2/b/2b3a64e3b6d931bd20dd0376ae4eb748-d8bgynf.png)
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Oh nice logo! How did you guys make it? (I want to improve in that area!)
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The symbol was done as a 3D rendered object. I didn't do the text though, so I wouldn't know.
2014 was a great year of development for Touhou Smash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeknHZdRBI4
I think this is the video that I've been trying to build up to to show to ZUN.
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I am so freaking hyped for this game, honestly. I've been so into Smash and seeing one of my all-time favorite series with literally the best fandom in the world getting a high-quality Smash crossover is gonna be amazing.
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And we finally have the promised Reimu vs Sakuya full battle! SPELL CARDS WILL BE CASTED:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E239WwIvo6k&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z12wwt0zdrzazxhvd22ptzv4bybaj31i304
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Man you weren't kidding when you said development for Reimu would be faster than for Sakuya.
Loved her spellcards!
I assume her final smash will be Fantasy Heaven?
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Gonna follow this project's progress!
I'm assuming keyboard controls are used currently, is controller compatibility possible in the long run? (Since the Wii U controllers can be used with a computer)
Also erm, I'm not sure if this belongs here but I'm one of the admins (sorta) of the TOHO Hijack page on facebook and I think someone in the thread asked us something about this project - just wanted to apologise for never replying because we were really busy during that time period and totally forgot about it (since we don't really manage the page often) orz
Anyway, we do dabble in drawing and the like, is there a need for any kind of artistic contribution at the current stage? We'd love to contribute to the progress!
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This is rare for something like this to happen on RikaNitori
Moderation message:
Primarily suggested by me but in agreement with Saijee: Decided to split the thread from the moment the crowdfunding was announced to keep the overview and things organized. This thread will remain the primary development and discussion thread about the game.
For discussion about ZUN's fan creation rules, the crowdfunding incident or related messages with this fan game: Please post here: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17884.0.html
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I must say, I do indeed like the demo after giving it a quick try and adjusting controls.
Though if there's any way to enable CPU it could work out better.
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I agree! It's quite fun. The feet cut through the skirts, but they'll probably fix that I guess before final release.
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I was trying out some of the new mechanics, and I noticed that the double grab Overpowers don't really work like they should. Regardless of who times their button press at the right time - or if either player presses anything at all - the second player always has their overpower activated after one circle. I'm not sure if it's something wrong with my download or not, since it's been seen working properly in the Dev Logs, but just letting you know in case something was changed accidentally.
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Oooo that's a good catch... .I'll work on it :)
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Hello :3 I commented on the slow motion Sakuya video but i guess you missed it XD
It's a little nitpicky, but I'd like to point out that a proper curtsy is usually done with the right foot behind the left :3
And by that, I mean the right foot should cross behind instead of just extending it back XD
In the taunts and sfx vid, the Sakuya on the right side, (the blue one), really does look like she's just bending down.
Because the taunt goes so fast, may I also suggest emphasizing the arms a little? :3 It looks like she is just stretching her skirt XD
When she bends down, raise the arms and shoulders very slightly, and then lower them on the way up.
The way you animated it, it seems like you simply returned the arms to her default, crossed arms position when the taunt ends, so maybe you should lower them back down, and complete the curtsy before returning to the default pose. :D
Hope this helps :)
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Just a few more bugs I found today:
When a percentage goes above 999% (Reimu's down spell + side b seems a bit overpowered), the first digit starts to be replaced by random symbols - at first things like % and "HP", but eventually stranger things like the dots used to represent stocks and a box. Just making 999 the maximum percentage should fix this easily.
Holding down one direction while you're already dashing in one makes you kind of run in place. Pressing the left and right buttons at the same makes you do a kind of hyper dash dance. These probably won't be an issue when using an actual controller instead of the keyboard, although they could make for some interesting mind games.
I'm not too sure why it happened and I can't replicate it, but the spell circle once stayed around Sakuya during her final smash instead of shrinking away. Also, while it's not so much a bug, you can use the final smash right after an up throw and your opponent cannot do anything about it. I haven't gotten the chance to play with anyone else yet, but it looks like this could be a guaranteed kill off of a grab from moderate percents (good knife setups can do 30-40%, and you can catch them with a side smash as they're falling in hitstun).
In any case, I'm still having a lot of fun exploring the demo. Looking forward to trying it with my friends, and hopefully development will still go smoothly without the campaign~
Edit: Just tried it to make sure, and wow can Sakuya's World be strong; good knife setups can actually lead to 80-90%, and therefore a 0-death out of a grab. :V
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Not sure if this is intentional, but if you use Sakuya's final smash as they're about to respawn, it'll eat their invincibility frames.
This doesn't happen with roll's invincibility frames as far as I know.
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Found another bug.
If you jump/float in the air, you can spam the taunt button so you can stay in the air for a very long time.
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I'm not sure if this is breaching the previous topics of discussion, this isn't about the crowdfunding or anything like that, mods feel free to move this to the other thread if deemed it belongs there. I just had an idea for how you could release this easier for you. What you could do is make your original game, release it how you will, but in the PC version, include mod support. With this, when you are able to get the resources together, you could release a semi-official FREE touhou skin/voice/etc pack. Dunno if that's a great idea, just something that popped into my head.
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I'm not sure if this is breaching the previous topics of discussion, this isn't about the crowdfunding or anything like that, mods feel free to move this to the other thread if deemed it belongs there. I just had an idea for how you could release this easier for you. What you could do is make your original game, release it how you will, but in the PC version, include mod support. With this, when you are able to get the resources together, you could release a semi-official FREE touhou skin/voice/etc pack. Dunno if that's a great idea, just something that popped into my head.
I just want to state that there is a good reason why I didn't respond after my last post, and for those of you who want to, I suppose you could call it a form of ignoring: I was tired, so I went to sleep, I only got up and back on my computer a few hours after noon. In case it's not clear: it is not very easy to read and respond to comments while asleep.
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I just want to state that there is a good reason why I didn't respond after my last post, and for those of you who want to, I suppose you could call it a form of ignoring: I was tired, so I went to sleep, I only got up and back on my computer a few hours after noon. In case it's not clear: it is not very easy to read and respond to comments while asleep.
To be blunt, adding mod support and encouraging people to do more touhou and such would blow most of the other smashers out the water if you do it right.