Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2

[Ghaleon]

Sorry for double post, phone won't let me
scroll down when I edit my last one, this post is kinda unrelated anyway.

I notice on the wiki that yuugi's shackle spell says that the formula is the same as the base attack formula. Testing it out seems to indicate otherwise for me. I know all attacks can deviate 10% (so a max possible deviation between 2 attacks would be about 22%) but yuugi tends to shackle for way more Than 122% of attacks damage, more like 160%. bear in mind this is against the same enemy with no leveling buffs or debuffs I'm between. I don't know which of the 2 formulas is incorrect, but not knowing the attack formula makes figuring out enemy def values much more difficult.

[LHCling]

What about enemy Elemental Affinity? Shackles is a SPI-Type Attack after all. That would certainly change your damage output, even if it were the same enemy and under the same conditions.

[Ghaleon]

What about enemy Elemental Affinity? Shackles is a SPI-Type Attack after all. That would certainly change your damage output, even if it were the same enemy and under the same conditions.

durr? I thought it had no element, nice point. I'll check it out.

[LHCling]

I should probably point out that SPI Affinity/ies not in between 80 and 130 (really rough estimate) should have a large enough impact on the results that you get.
Also, I got out-tanked by her again  >_>
I seem to have no way of going about dealing that much damage in just 1-2 rounds. 180k in a single turn wasn't enough once that started. Urge to use

Spoiler:

Tenshi

, rising.

[MysTeariousYukari]

For

Spoiler:

Orin

, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't she weak as all hell and nearly incapable of KO'ing ANYONE worth having in the 1st and 2nd slot? Cause she was absolutly pitiful when I got to her and fought her. I used the incredibly simple party of Meiling, Remi, Reimu, Marisa to win, switching Marisa out for

Spoiler:

Ran

so I could have a MAG+100% on Marisa so I could do a proper Spark. After the Spark, I had Patchy in slot 4.

EDIT: Baity, I have some info for you about defeating

Spoiler:

Yukari

, I'll spoiler mark the info:

Spoiler:

-Very weak to NTR.
-650k HP.
-All her attacks are magic based.
-Form switch at 400k and 200k.

Now, here is what I did and I would reccomend trying it yourself.

Spoiler:

I had Suwako with me for her Single Target NTR move, which was dealing 100k~ per use. When I started the fight, I had a Calculator opened up, and whenever I dealt damage I added it up. Just before the damage total hit 450k, I brought my nukes and nuked her to death.

If you try all this and it still does not work, then you may need to grind, I was at Reimu Lv 85 when I won, but apperently Lv 75 is good enough :V

[yoshicookiezeus]

New question: Does status afflictions and/or boosts remain when you switch out characters?

Also, got Rumia on my first attempt. Is it just me, or does she hardly do any damage at all in her boss battle? She kept using Moonlight Ray on Reimu and Patchy, and it never did more than zero damage to them...

And Chen's Phoenix Spread Wings combined with Sakuya's Misdirection seem to be great for taking out just about anything on floor 3 (except for those annoying Tengus) before they can even attack.

[MysTeariousYukari]

New question: Does status afflictions and/or boosts remain when you switch out characters?

Yes. All Ailments, Buffs and Debuffs will remain in effect even if you switch that character out.

Chens Pheonix Spread Wings has pretty good multipliers on it, or at least seems powerful for Chen standards. Sakuya's Misdirection will falter and seem useless at times, leaving you with Killing Doll and Soul Sculpture for offense, and Soul Sculpture >>>>>> Misdirection to be honest even though the price is steaper.

[Jyazen]

I'm back from my break so I can finally continue my venture to 21F and beyond. Grinded a bit @ 20F. Never did get another Ribbon but I lucked out and got 3 Flower Blade so I guess it's all good. Now I'm off to fight the Version 2 bosses. A quick question regarding that...

Do the version 2 bosses drop anything?

Would be awesome if I can get more of the limited item boss drops like another Grim Grimoire. I know I can get another from the Boss Rush, but what about the v2s?

[yoshicookiezeus]

Just defeated Alice's dolls (and was kind of taken aback at their complete lack of any kind of difficulty) and the last of Wriggle's bugs, and then proceeded to get utterly destroyed by Alice herself. Silence is not a very nice status ailment, and especially so once Meiling goes down and I can't cure it anymore.

And by the way, how long does poison last before it goes away? I'm trying to determine if starting out with Wriggle against Alice is worth it or not, but the lack of an enemy health bar makes it kind of hard.

[Garlyle]

Just defeated Alice's dolls (and was kind of taken aback at their complete lack of any kind of difficulty) and the last of Wriggle's bugs, and then proceeded to get utterly destroyed by Alice herself. Silence is not a very nice status ailment, and especially so once Meiling goes down and I can't cure it anymore.

And by the way, how long does poison last before it goes away? I'm trying to determine if starting out with Wriggle against Alice is worth it or not, but the lack of an enemy health bar makes it kind of hard.

Silence goes away after about 3-4 turns automatically, but the character does have to actually be on the battlefield for this to happen.

As for Poison, it depends on the move that inflicted it and the user's level.  Wriggle's poison is actually pretty strong, but reapplying it over and over is a good idea.  The way Poison works is to do damage almost constantly, but every time it does do damage, its effectiveness drops a bit until it eventually fades.  So, reapplying it constantly keeps it doing as much damage as possible.

The formula is in the topic somewhere, it's just... yeah.

[Jaimers]

Holy fuck,

Spoiler:

Youmu

is such a terrible boss fight.
I'm trying desperately to paralyse and speed her down with Reimu and Cirno while hoping to God she doesn't hit anyone but Meiling as everyone else is a one hit kill.
And that's not even taking into account her "LOL LETS KILL EVERYONE" attack. 

EDIT:
BAWWWWWWWW

[yoshicookiezeus]

I am not sure if it was Wriggle keeping Alice and her dolls poisoned for the first half of the battle, me focusing my attacks on the healing doll first instead of the magic one, using up almost all my skillpoints before the battle, or a combination of the three. But in any case, Alice just got defeated on my second attempt. Though I have to say that I got a bit worried when she started using Little Legion and Return Inanimateness once all the dolls were gone... Anyway, on to floor five!

[LHCling]

For

Spoiler:

Orin

, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't she weak as all hell and nearly incapable of KO'ing ANYONE worth having in the 1st and 2nd slot?

This depends on whether or not you get RNG shafted and have your DEF debuffed. While talking about being RNG shafted, in my "victory"

Spoiler:

6 people were KO'd because of being walked over; and these were in the 3rd and 4th slots

.

I'll spoiler mark the info:

Spoiler:

-Very weak to NTR.
-All her attacks are magic based.
-Form switch at 400k and 200k.

1. I was beginning to notice that after trying out attacks at random
2. Most are; I noted 1, maybe 2 exceptions.
3. So close  ;_;
Guess it's time to do this once again. Looks like I won't even "need" to grind that extra level and reach Lv 75 after all  :V

[Milkyway64]

Well, any extra levels you grind for that fight can only do you good, since you'll have to get them anyway on the next few floors to stand a chance.  :V

[Ghaleon]

-All her attacks are magic based.

NO. Her deadliest attack of all (for me anyway) flying swallow something or other is physical. I swear if it wasn't for that one spell she'd be a breeze.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Is there a faster way to assign level-ups than giving them out individually? Having to manually give new characters 20+ of them and the included bonuses is getting kind of annoying...

Also, why is

Spoiler:

Yuugi

not marked as a boss? I just ran into her and got utterly obliterated, and ended up having to reexplore half of floor 5.

[Fishin]

I just pulled an awesome victory against

Spoiler:

Flandre.  The fight was going badly from the start, I was losing characters quickly and my debuffs kept failing to hit, so it came down to Tenshi and a couple of other attackers/supporters.  Flandre started spamming Laevatein and all of the others except Suwako died (Komachi got one-shotted at full health), so the only thing I could do was use Tenshi to swap Suwako in when Flandre was low on gauge to use Croaking Frog Eaten by Snake and then swap her back out before Flandre got another turn, while trying to keep State of Enlightenment up.  Finally, Tenshi had no SP and was going to get ko'd by the next attack, and the last hit from Suwako finished her

.  Not that hard of a boss but it was nice beating her on my first serious attempt.

[Ghaleon]

Is there a faster way to assign level-ups than giving them out individually? Having to manually give new characters 20+ of them and the included bonuses is getting kind of annoying...

Also, why is

Spoiler:

Yuugi

not marked as a boss? I just ran into her and got utterly obliterated, and ended up having to reexplore half of floor 5.

Nope, have to do it 1 at a time.

Because the game designer felt evil, and they know it. At the final floor post-game it gets special mention.

[Kanako Yasaka]

Fuck you Mokou.

Fujiyama Volcano is ridiculous.
RIDICULOUS

[Serela]

Fuck you Mokou.

Fujiyama Volcano is ridiculous.
RIDICULOUS

You aren't supposed to survive this, instead, you're supposed to 100% MAG buff MASTER SPAAAARK and kill her after Resurrection.

Meiling should be able to take a hit from it, though, which means you shouldn't have to worry about not switching Marisa in on time. In fact, with the help of a healer+Meiling's self heal, you can actually survive for a decent amount of time switching in/out nukers and healers after she starts spamming it. Anything other then MASTER SPARKU is highly unrecommended though.


EDIT:I gave the 16F whore MND on her level-up boosts. Its even better then Patchy's now, PLUS she has okay HP/DEF, AND a party Def/Mnd buff, plus a SPD down/PAR on all skill... damn, MND is a MUCH better choice for her then MAG will ever be.

Just beat 18F boss, 16F slut was out 96% of the time and the only time she took damage was from Ratetsu Fist or w/e its called, awesome. 18F boss was actually not hard at all this time around, now that I had 3 people tanking it (Meiling/Remi/16F hoe). Still took a half hour, but that theme is pretty great so~

EDIT(again):Am I using too many degrading adjectives on 16F prostitute? >:

[Ghaleon]

18F boss was like the easiest boss in the game for me. I spent about half my level up bonuses on MND or DEF for like my entire party. attack stats are nice and all, but I find most bosses tend to have little def/mnd anyway. And they become trivial when you overlevel not because they die fast, but because they do piss damage.

18F just does piss damage even with a LITTLE bit of defense >=P

[yoshicookiezeus]

Floor 7.

Oh god.

[Milkyway64]

18F boss was like the easiest boss in the game for me. I spent about half my level up bonuses on MND or DEF for like my entire party. attack stats are nice and all, but I find most bosses tend to have little def/mnd anyway. And they become trivial when you overlevel not because they die fast, but because they do piss damage.

18F just does piss damage even with a LITTLE bit of defense >=P

I'd still argue this to the death. Balancing/going more offensive totally wrecks you for that fight. You can't make up for it with items, because you need ailment resistance MUCH more than the stat points, and even then he simply outlasts you. 95 was the level I beat him first time around, and it was a very close win at that.

[Deranged]

NO. Her deadliest attack of all (for me anyway) flying swallow something or other is physical. I swear if it wasn't for that one spell she'd be a breeze.

Actually,

Spoiler:

Flying Insect's Nest

is magical. It's just really, really strong for a magical attack. (I assume you think it's physical because it 1shotted Patchy or something; it always one-shotted

Spoiler:

Tenshi

in slot 1 unbuffed which nothing else even came close to doing in phases 1 and 2, so I doubt DEF has anything to do with it).

As for 16f,

Spoiler:

Djinn Storm -> Barrier Release happens at exactly 400k remaining, and Djinn Storm -> Barrier Release -> IN Quadruple Barrier happens at exactly 200k remaining. Use Ran to buff up your 4 best attackers (or 3 best + Kaguya to make your best go again), beat her down to as close to 200k as possible, wait for her to use a long delay move like Sakura Blizzard, then bring out all your attackers and zerg her down before she gets to Djinn Storm.

[Serela]

Actually,

Spoiler:

Flying Insect's Nest

is magical. It's just really, really strong for a magical attack. (I assume you think it's physical because it 1shotted Patchy or something; it always one-shotted

Spoiler:

Tenshi

in slot 1 unbuffed which nothing else even came close to doing in phases 1 and 2, so I doubt DEF has anything to do with it).

Spoiler:

Flying Insect's Nest is an attack she always has in that fight, I've had her use it as an opener before. I believe you meant Hyperactive Flying Object.

[LHCling]

Bitch KO'd 2 before I won.

Oh well.

[Serela]

Bitch KO'd 2 before I won.

Oh well.

You act as if only 2 deaths is a bad thing. >:

[MysTeariousYukari]

Bitch KO'd 2 before I won

KO'd 2 before I won

KO'd 2

I assume you mean 16F. Only 2 getting KO'ed on that fight is very good. Although, I assume you were hoping for the awesome "0 Casualties" fight, which seems impossible once you hit around... 7F-8F bosses without lotsa grinding beforehand.

[nintendonut888]

Seriously.

Why is Mokou's last phase so retarded?

Not even Master Spark and Silent Selene's combined forces can kill her before she unleashes her total party OHKO. I even buffed master spark to about 80% magic beforehand and attached a bunch of magic buffs to Marisa.

[LHCling]

I assume you mean 16F.

Of course I mean 16F.

Only 2 getting KO'ed on that fight is very good. Although, I assume you were hoping for the awesome "0 Casualties" fight, which seems impossible once you hit around... 7F-8F bosses without lotsa grinding beforehand.

Seems "impossible" for most, but it's only a select few in actuality. For me, the following notable Boss Battles (read: I ignored the 8F

Spoiler:

spirits

, and 8-10F

Spoiler:

butterflies

) were done with 0 KO's from 8F onwards... in some kind of order:

Spoiler:

Nitori (lots of praying)

,

Spoiler:

Sanae's Foe (which I rushed)

,

Spoiler:

Tenshi (lots of praying)

,

Spoiler:

12F Trio

,

Spoiler:

Both 14F Sigil Guardians

,

Spoiler:

Yuyuko (pray that 4% DTH didn't occur)

,

Spoiler:

Great Stamp (Lily Sigil; 15-16F related)

and

Spoiler:

Kaguya's Foe

.
1-2 KO's (which could've been more or less averted with more caution):

Spoiler:

Mokou

and

Spoiler:

Yukari

.
3+:

Spoiler:

Suwako; 3

,

Spoiler:

Flan; 3

,

Spoiler:

Orin (RNG-shafted); 6

and

Spoiler:

Hill Gigas (stupid 100 x Lv damage, etc.); 3

.

You'll notice a certain common trait between various bosses that I had "trouble" with  :V

Not even Master Spark and Silent Selene's combined forces can kill her before she unleashes her total party OHKO. I even buffed master spark to about 80% magic beforehand and attached a bunch of magic buffs to Marisa.

...how much is each hitting for?