Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2  (Read 222460 times)

Tsumachi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #330 on: January 26, 2010, 10:14:35 PM »
advice

I'm getting ready to try while not paying attention in art history.
The funny thing was, I killed
Spoiler:
Yuka
by doing the exact same thing (ms, alice, laevatein), and I was going off the statement that
Spoiler:
Shiki
had less hp.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #331 on: January 26, 2010, 10:37:49 PM »
I'm getting ready to try while not paying attention in art history.
The funny thing was, I killed
Spoiler:
Yuka
by doing the exact same thing (ms, alice, laevatein), and I was going off the statement that
Spoiler:
Shiki
had less hp.

Well the thing is neither boss instantly casts focus at that certain amount of HP. They only decide they'll focus on their NEXT turn after reaching the said threshold (well, I'm assuming here, I think it's a pretty safe assumption though), so maybe Yuka decided to cast some move with huge delay like 1hp before her focus threshold, virtually more than doubling the time you got to take her out during that phase, along with making it so that she actually focused at possibly 5% instead of 15% or whatever.

Tsumachi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #332 on: January 26, 2010, 10:56:23 PM »
Okay, I just tried
Spoiler:
Shiki
again, and I did at least 4m after she focused, and she still steamrolled me >:(

Tsumachi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #333 on: January 27, 2010, 12:58:32 AM »
...
I just beat her.
She didn't even use focus, and I lost Marisa before she could spark and kaguya got all of two hits in.
Wtf.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #334 on: January 27, 2010, 12:59:15 AM »
According to the JP Wiki, it's completely random when she chooses to focus -> rape. She can do it as her first move, or never at all. It's just a low percentage chance in general of doing it.

Chen

  • Ruined my own appeal by being a dumbass
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #335 on: January 27, 2010, 02:46:05 AM »
I still can't beat Alice.
I had all her dolls down...
Then she killed me.  :-X

nintendonut888

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #336 on: January 27, 2010, 02:54:41 AM »
I still can't beat Alice.
I had all her dolls down...
Then she killed me.  :-X

It's cheap, but in hindsight a boss wouldn't be fun if there was a 100% way to beat them. Part of the reason I like Touhou as a whole.

Also, it's odd. I want to continue to the fifth floor, I tested out Alice and saw that she's a mix between Marisa and Patchouli, buffed up Alice via skill points, but...I'm suddenly so tired. I wonder why, it can't be because of how late I went to bed last night. :V Also I unequipped everyone's items so I can more wisely allocate them, but that's gonna take a while. :x
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #337 on: January 27, 2010, 03:04:34 AM »
Also, it's odd. I want to continue to the fifth floor, I tested out Alice and saw that she's a mix between Marisa and Patchouli, buffed up Alice via skill points, but...I'm suddenly so tired. I wonder why, it can't be because of how late I went to bed last night. :V Also I unequipped everyone's items so I can more wisely allocate them, but that's gonna take a while. :x
Alice is like... a mix of several kinds of attacker. She is an attacker, yet she has great MND and still pretty good DEF and okay HP, giving her decent survival capability.

All her skills cause debuffs, two have a element (different ones!), one does mass damage to weak-MND stuff, and she has both Magical AND Physical skills that BOTH use only MAG (Which is like AWESOME.).

Everything other then Return Inanimateness seems to do kinda bad damage to bosses around reaching the Final Boss though, considering she is only really good for attacking... I'm not sure if I just wasn't giving her enough SKP and equips for MAG, though. She is beyond awesome until then though, I assure you... and I was probably just messing up somehow when I thought she was getting bad.

Anyway, went through a little more of 16F today, went back and got 12F last optional. Damn, its like Patch with only slightly better stats in everything other then MAG/MND... still gets 0hkoed by basically anything physical, yet doesn't have the super magical defenses. Those skills just look awesome though... well, no matter what I'm using her until Final Boss at a minimum, for the sake of trying all the characters I didn't use last time (save Iku and the 18F)
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #338 on: January 27, 2010, 03:40:45 AM »
Is it just me, or does the boss music tend to start lighthearted (Alice/Youmu) and gradually get more epic as the game goes on?

I haven't beat 16F yet, but man her theme is awesome. Its getting me more and more pumped to keep going and reach the next batch of battles.

"What do you mean 'stop repeating everything you say'?"

LHCling

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #339 on: January 27, 2010, 06:18:01 AM »
Recommended Level check for
Spoiler:
Mokou
,
Spoiler:
Yuyuko
and the various other Bosses of 14F. I feel that Reimu Lv57 isn't going to cut it  :V

Well, with enough thinking I'm sure that the [non-spoiler] Bosses can be taken out. Not sure about the ones in the spoilers because they hurt. A lot.

Oh, and 13F was wonderful. I got everything. I'm fairly sure of this because the map looks
Spoiler:
perfectly symmetrical and heavily resembles a square / rectangle
.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 06:22:19 AM by BAD BOY BAITY!! (dj Remo-con MIX) »
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<>
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trancehime

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #340 on: January 27, 2010, 08:43:27 AM »
Rumia's highlights over Kaggy is not dark side of the moon, or her magic. It's her excellent formula for moonlight ray, along with Demarcations heal and utility.

I was not suggesting that Rumia was better. Also, Demarcation's Stat Down/PAR healing is the only reason why you would ever use it. The HP heal is just icing on the cake, because it is multi-target healing.

I was trying to say that Rumia is not by any means a useless character to be using later on. Any character can find their own use later on. And really, I don't find much use in using Kaguya offensively. I almost exclusively use her for her buff.

Quote
Now I don't like arguing with people, or trying to prove someone is right just for the sake of it. But this is not the first, second, or even 3rd time I've seen you posh someone trying to offer advice with a snide remark like "Well *MY* ___ does better because *I* twink more, duh!". I mean, it doesn't help anybody to write something like that, not to mention it misleads someone into thinking that someone actually benefits from "Twinking" more than another, which in your case, is often the exact opposite.

Get off your fucking self-righteous high horse and lay off. I wasn't trying to be snide when I said that, nor did I mean any harm from it. If it elicited such a virulent response from you, then it's not my fault you took it the wrong way. This isn't the only time you've misunderstood my posts for whatever reason, and it's starting to irk me. Also:

>benefitting from twinking
>doesn't actually work

Wait, what? If you don't want to twink, don't. Twinking is intentional tweaking of stats at the expense of others. In this game, you almost always don't compromise the skill point growth of another stat because you can't. The skill point gains in the 30F are almost always enough to grant you one or two levels after one round of killing the randoms there. So it's not even twinking in the entire sense of the word, but rather, power-grinding. This also renders your point here:

Quote
The only other possible way rumia's damage using DSTM will outpace Kaggy's ignore mnd spells now is that her mag levels via skillpoints were significantly cheaper, which they are not, they are more expensive, approximately 10% more expensive.

completely moot, because everyone's skill point costs are going to be ridiculously high when you're dealing with levels of such a grand scale. It would make a much bigger difference to say that when you're dealing with normal game levels, but since we're arguing from completely different perspectives here - given I'm trying to beat the F30 Middle Boss 100 times, I am intentionally overclocking the capabilities of everyone I want to use. It's no use to be saying something like that.

I'm stopping here. If you're still pissed off at me for no reason, take it to PM.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 08:48:02 AM by TranceHime »

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Milkyway64

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #341 on: January 27, 2010, 09:27:47 AM »
I'm stopping here. If you're still pissed off at me for no reason, take it to PM.

*slowly puts bucket of popcorn down disappointedly*

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #342 on: January 27, 2010, 08:22:41 PM »
Who said I was angry? I'm not.

Anyway, I never said twinking doesn't actually work. Character vs character comparisons are generally made assuming all things are equal, such as how much you have decided to twink one. I agree that kaggy's use during bosses is almost used exclusively for buffs (mostly for the insta-gauge too), but we weren't discussing each of the character's overall use so much as their mnd/def ignoring attacks for handling those baddies who take 0 from virtually everything.

Someone made a list of characters that is good at that, kaguya was not on the list, so I added that she is infact, better than Rumia at that single subject (mnd ignoring attacks), you said Rumia should be twinked more. Then I tried to argue that twinking or not, assuming all things are equal, Rumia is inferior to Kaguya at def/mnd ignoring spells, my mention at skillpoint costs, leveling ratios, etc, is merely a mathematical "proof" of sorts.

Speaking of perspectives, it is not a matter of mine opposed to yours. I was attempting to discuss RemiliaXYuyuko's who was having trouble with floor 15 trash (at that moment I forgot Kaguya was unavailable at that point in the game).

edit:
Btw anybody who has played with the newer patches, did they fix the stage music so that it continues where it left off after battle? Some of them are quite good but are really never heard because you start a fight before you're even a quarter of the way thru the track.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 09:39:59 PM by Ghaleon »

MysTeariousYukari

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #343 on: January 27, 2010, 10:10:56 PM »
Ok what the heck, Plus Disk bosses are ripping me, and I could use some help.
Spoiler:
1st things 1st, who will I be able to likly beat 1st out of Baal Avatar, that 22F Sigil Guardian, Yuka or Utsuho? My Reimu is level 235 right now. 22F Sigil Guardian loves Destroy Magic, Utsuso KOs me within like 1-3 turns, Baal Avatar is using Triple Sword on my squishies who are in slot 3 or 4, Reimu counts as a squishy in this as well. Yuka starts spamming moves like Gensokyo's Reflowering until I die, which I do shortly after.

I am having to grind more here then in a Nippon Ichi game(read as Disgaea)!

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #344 on: January 27, 2010, 10:51:23 PM »
Ok what the heck, Plus Disk bosses are ripping me, and I could use some help.
Spoiler:
1st things 1st, who will I be able to likly beat 1st out of Baal Avatar, that 22F Sigil Guardian, Yuka or Utsuho? My Reimu is level 235 right now. 22F Sigil Guardian loves Destroy Magic, Utsuso KOs me within like 1-3 turns, Baal Avatar is using Triple Sword on my squishies who are in slot 3 or 4, Reimu counts as a squishy in this as well. Yuka starts spamming moves like Gensokyo's Reflowering until I die, which I do shortly after.

I am having to grind more here then in a Nippon Ichi game(read as Disgaea)!

22F boss is IMO easiest, but have you gotten around to boss rush 2.0 or final boss 2.0? They're probably your most manageable boss fights at this point.

I would leave 21F joinable for last. She's definitely the most difficult of the plus-disk joinables to get.

Inactive person

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #345 on: January 27, 2010, 11:54:10 PM »
-Busy with things-
Any tips for
Spoiler:
Orin?  She's insanely fast with Cat Walk spam and 9 knights are getting me low SP.  Do I grind more (lvls roughly 65-68) or is there a recommended strategy against the 9 knights and Orin
?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 12:01:35 AM by RemiliaXYuyuko »

MysTeariousYukari

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #346 on: January 28, 2010, 12:09:38 AM »
I get left in the dust by Final Boss V.2, so I'd like to avoid it for now >.> 22F Boss it is I guess.

Does anyone know some of the notable stats on these bosses? HP being the big 1 I would like to know...

For that fight RemiliaxYuyuko,
Spoiler:
I would actually reccomend skipping her for now then come back in a bit if she seems to difficult. The boss lacks any notable damage output, it's all weaker-but-numerous attacks. Her attacks might seem to have bite right now, but they start looking rather weak rather quickly, this is especially true if you can get DEF/MND buffs in place and keep them in place.

Spoiler:
For getting past the knights before her, I would actually make it so you can dish out High Dmg while having High Survivability with alternate chars for the knights and the main party for her. For me, I normally Fight with Meiling-Remi-Reimu-Marisa/Patchy, but when dealing with the knights I switched to a different 4 who could last the 7 someodd fights.

Inactive person

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #347 on: January 28, 2010, 12:13:07 AM »
I get left in the dust by Final Boss V.2, so I'd like to avoid it for now >.> 22F Boss it is I guess.

Does anyone know some of the notable stats on these bosses? HP being the big 1 I would like to know...

For that fight RemiliaxYuyuko,
Spoiler:
I would actually reccomend skipping her for now then come back in a bit if she seems to difficult. The boss lacks any notable damage output, it's all weaker-but-numerous attacks. Her attacks might seem to have bite right now, but they start looking rather weak rather quickly, this is especially true if you can get DEF/MND buffs in place and keep them in place.

Spoiler:
For getting past the knights before her, I would actually make it so you can dish out High Dmg while having High Survivability with alternate chars for the knights and the main party for her. For me, I normally Fight with Meiling-Remi-Reimu-Marisa/Patchy, but when dealing with the knights I switched to a different 4 who could last the 7 someodd fights.

Thank you Flandre's Revenge.  I guess I'll come back to her after I fully explored the 15F.

LiteYear

  • Touhou Fangame Enthusiast
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #348 on: January 28, 2010, 12:47:10 AM »
I still can't beat Alice.
I had all her dolls down...
Then she killed me.  :-X

I've found Alice and her dolls are highly susceptible to Poison.  It's not a huge advantage, but it might be enough to tip the battle.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #349 on: January 28, 2010, 01:50:54 AM »
22F boss is IMO easiest, but have you gotten around to boss rush 2.0 or final boss 2.0? They're probably your most manageable boss fights at this point.

I would leave 21F joinable for last. She's definitely the most difficult of the plus-disk joinables to get.

I agree with this completely. Something you should know about 21F joinable, is that she is deceptively harder than you think. I mean, when I first unlocked 21F joinable, I tried fighting her, and she actually seemed easier than the baal avatar at the time, because she often opens up with weak spells like fireball and such. However I reached a point where she casted a new nuke which pawnted me. After leveling up some more, I tried again, then I found out that the same nuke also buffs her damage, so, I got ownt again later on (especially since she unlocks another new powerful nuke).

Then just when you think you're powerful enough to handle all that, she gets ANOTHER big nuke which completely ignores your defense and omgwtfcreams your entire party for like 60k (and no, it's not a "kill me before I cast this dps race" type spell, it's just casted randomly fairly regularly). so yeah, she's a bish.

Tsumachi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #350 on: January 28, 2010, 03:06:08 AM »
I agree with this completely. Something you should know about 21F joinable, is that she is deceptively harder than you think. I mean, when I first unlocked 21F joinable, I tried fighting her, and she actually seemed easier than the baal avatar at the time, because she often opens up with weak spells like fireball and such. However I reached a point where she casted a new nuke which pawnted me. After leveling up some more, I tried again, then I found out that the same nuke also buffs her damage, so, I got ownt again later on (especially since she unlocks another new powerful nuke).

Then just when you think you're powerful enough to handle all that, she gets ANOTHER big nuke which completely ignores your defense and omgwtfcreams your entire party for like 60k (and no, it's not a "kill me before I cast this dps race" type spell, it's just casted randomly fairly regularly). so yeah, she's a bish.

Giga Flare is my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE SPELL!
The boss knows this as well, and always tries to be nice by giving me two in a row.
How generous of her.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #351 on: January 28, 2010, 03:16:55 AM »
Floor 5 reeks of filler. :| I've explored nearly 3/4 of it and the only thing I've found is a sake spring in an out of the way location.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #352 on: January 28, 2010, 03:29:19 AM »
Floor 5 reeks of filler. :| I've explored nearly 3/4 of it and the only thing I've found is a sake spring in an out of the way location.
You get the last Notebook scrap for Aya, there are three different stairways to 6F(all important), and two sake springs (one is right before optional character boss after 400 battles, other is right before Sigil boss)
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #353 on: January 28, 2010, 03:38:17 AM »
You get the last Notebook scrap for Aya, there are three different stairways to 6F(all important), and two sake springs (one is right before optional character boss after 400 battles, other is right before Sigil boss)

Yeah, speaking of Aya? I don't really like her, so I wasn't planning on using her, but my god is she useless. She can buff one person's speed (which Sakuya can do for the whole team), and...that's about it.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Tsumachi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #354 on: January 28, 2010, 03:56:06 AM »
Yeah, speaking of Aya? I don't really like her, so I wasn't planning on using her, but my god is she useless. She can buff one person's speed (which Sakuya can do for the whole team), and...that's about it.

I prefer Chen, but then again I don't use either of them anymore...

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #355 on: January 28, 2010, 03:58:58 AM »
Yeah, speaking of Aya? I don't really like her, so I wasn't planning on using her, but my god is she useless. She can buff one person's speed (which Sakuya can do for the whole team), and...that's about it.

Aya is better at it then Sakuya if you are going for full team buffs. Hers add 50 speed and only cost 25 gauge while Sakuya gives 40 speed and 100 gauge. Unless you're sending Sakuya in, using it once and sending her out, Aya will produce better results. She's also innately faster and if paired with certain characters, has the highest dps in the game against mid to low def enemies.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #356 on: January 28, 2010, 04:00:38 AM »
Yeah, speaking of Aya? I don't really like her, so I wasn't planning on using her, but my god is she useless. She can buff one person's speed (which Sakuya can do for the whole team), and...that's about it.

I found her to be quite good actually. She doesn't dish out as much damage as some of the glass cannons, but she is definately above average on the dps scale, in additon beefiest early game characters who are capable of an attack all spell without blowing all their sp in 1 turn.

You're at the point where you can't simply try out a character to see how good they are anymore though in terms of stats and damage output though. The skillpoints invested in your other characters, along with equipment heavily skews those unless you blow a bunch on the new character. You're best off checking the wiki for the real stats IMO.

Tsumachi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #357 on: January 28, 2010, 04:56:20 AM »
Yay, I finally got to floor 30, and then hahaha, oh wow.

MysTeariousYukari

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #358 on: January 28, 2010, 05:04:44 AM »
Quote
22F boss is IMO easiest

I honestly hate the 22F boss... it LOVES to use Destroy Magic to NO end, like every 3-4 turns.
Spoiler:
Which Sigil Guardian must I kill to gain entry to 26F? Baal Avatar(21F Sigil) or Super-Freaky-Alien(22F Sigil). Also where is the last of the 4 Sigil guardian? Baal Avatar on 21F, Alien-thingie on 22F and the Flame Tyrant on 24F, but I KNOW there is 1 more Guardian somewhere.

Oh yeah Tsumachi... xD Yeah... assuming you mean the trash/randoms on 30F.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #359 on: January 28, 2010, 05:05:59 AM »
The wiki doesn't have enough information. :( I want to know how much health Yugi has. I'm pretty sure I was close to beating her, but in this game you could be one hit away from victory and not know it.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet