Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2

[Just a GBZero]

Ok I finished the first page, Characters 1.  If theres anything wrong with it let me know.  If I get nothing I'll get started on the other pages.

[Serela]

Ok I finished the first page, Characters 1.  If theres anything wrong with it let me know.  If I get nothing I'll get started on the other pages.

Looks great! I'll get to work in a few minutes.

EDIT:Page 1 finished. It looks so pretty.

[Garlyle]

You could just ask me if you want something changed XD I am the one who did it afterall!

...Also, I feel like saying that there's a reason I didn't include Delay Amounts and such originally - that data's not available for everyone even on the JP Wiki.

...Also Also I need to go and bloody sit down and update the 'grades' on the stats because someone else did the Plus Disk page and I think the 16F-20F page as well and may not be right.

[Deranged]

I should probably point out something that may have been misunderstood from what I've seen on the wiki; for PAR and PSN, the chance of the effect proccing on the target should be the same across all moves that can inflict it. This is because the equation for checking whether it lands is simply 100-(resistance stat * 3), so the only thing that affects the chance of PAR or PSN effecting an enemy is the enemy's resistance to the status effect in particular.

What the "strength" of these moves affects is how powerful the effect is -if- the effect lands. In the case of PAR, the effect of the different strengths of the moves is the duration of the PAR. In the case of PSN, the effect of the different strengths of the moves is the duration and the amount of HP lost per "battle count".

In short, the strength of the effect has no bearing on whether it lands, but only on how long the effect lasts/how powerful it is.

The DTH part I mentioned is also entirely my conjecture, but it seems consistent considering the few times I used F14 optional 1.

Additionally, all the move info and such was taken from the plus disk omake text file, which means that it was included with the first version of the plus disk (v2.00). This means there may have been some changes to the moves or other data since, so it may not be entirely accurate, although it's probably as good a starting point as any.

[Serela]

...Also, I feel like saying that there's a reason I didn't include DelayAmounts and such originally - that data's not available for everyone even on the JP Wiki.

...Also Also I need to go and bloody sit down and update the 'grades' on the stats because someone else did the Plus Disk page and I think the 16F-20F page as well and may not be right.

I'm pretty sure everyone has their delays on the Jap wiki... all the characters I've looked at did, which is maybe 1/4 of the Main Game characters and all of the Plus Disk ones.

The Level-Up Difficulty is avaliable for all non-Plus-Disk characters in the file that comes with the game. I'll also see if it corresponds to an exact amount of EXP required to reach lv2 or 3 or something, because if it does, I can get the value for Plus Disk people too.

As for grades, I'll do the Level-Up ones myself if you don't do them first  :V And the Plus-Disk page only has like one character on it so far in the first place, so don't worry about those being inaccurate, heh.

[Just a GBZero]

Well I finished pages 2 and 3, so if any need be they can be undone.  Personally I like the idea of this though, adding more info, if slighty innacurate, compared to haveing no data on said subjects.

[Serela]

Finished filling in pages 2 and 3. So far, 5 characters do not have any delay info on the JP Wiki. These are

Spoiler:

Meiling, Iku, Ran, Alice, and Wriggle.

Definitely worth it. :3

EDIT:Checked ahead, and the rest without Delay info are

Spoiler:

Reisen, Mokou, Orin, and Suika

. All Plus-Disk characters have Delay info, but no Level-Up Difficulty unless it corresponds to an exact level up (which I have not tested yet).

Well, 31/40 characters is pretty darn good, eh?

[AlexX Unlimited]

Requesting permission to do the testing and write out the analysis to be put in Rin's data slot.

The only thing I can't test too well is how effective the poison in one of her attacks is, but the data is already there so we should be good.

EDIT: Since we're on the subject... What happens when a status effect is inflicted on a target that already has it? Like... If Wriggle manages to poison an enemy, would using Comet On Earth again make the poison effect stronger, would it increase/reset the duration, or something else? Same with PAR, does inflicting it more than once increase how long it lasts? And does this all apply to when enemies use them on your characters as well?

[Serela]

I'm pretty sure it just re-inflicts it back to full power.

8F girl (not healer) can basically keep a boss in infinite paralysis if its vulnerable. Ehehehe~

[Ghaleon]

I think someone wanted the delay values of each attack? They're all in the text file if so, for all the non-plusdisk characters. just check for the value after 使用後アクティブゲージ量 for each attack, then divide it by 10000 to get the percentage.

hurr? I shall check this, this would be very good news indeed. I kinda gave up trying to theory each character's dps after finding out each attack has a variable amount of delay without knowing what easily. eeek.

[Serela]

hurr? I shall check this, this would be very good news indeed. I kinda gave up trying to theory each character's dps after finding out each attack has a variable amount of delay without knowing what easily. eeek.

I've added the attack delays to the english wiki already. First three pages of characters are done, except like 4 characters without information on them. Most of the other character's delay info can be found on the Jap wiki.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww19.atwiki.jp%2Fth_maze%2F&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Also added the Level-Up difficulty to these characters, a higher value means they take more EXP to level up. Most characters deemed less useful, or with weak stat growths, also take significantly less EXP to level.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Spoiler:

Ok, Plus disk time. Master Light Wings has been shot down to a smoldering pile of "The player wins", Chen, Yuugi and Nitori V.2 have been bested and until I gain far more levels, Boss Rush is impossible due to my victory against Final Boss having been pure luck as no Djinn Storm was used by her the entire time she could use it. Yuugi V.2 was pure lolz, she OHKOed almost everyone she targeted, she even dealt like 256k with Knockout in 3 Steps. What should I take down next? Meiling? Or maybe Yuyuko?

[AlexX Unlimited]

I'm pretty sure it just re-inflicts it back to full power.

8F girl (not healer) can basically keep a boss in infinite paralysis if its vulnerable. Ehehehe~

Good to know, though I honestly do not like that character and am highly saddened her counterpart is not in this game.

Can the bosses known as

Spoiler:

Lily Sigil Guardian, Flandre, and Yukari

be affected by PSN or PAR? I know they mostly spam spells, making my drunken one highly vulnerable, so if they aren't vulnerable to her status I'm probably better off giving her a temporary replacement.

[Serela]

Good to know, though I honestly do not like that character and am highly saddened her counterpart is not in this game.

Can the bosses known as

Spoiler:

Lily Sigil Guardian, Flandre, and Yukari

be affected by PSN or PAR? I know they mostly spam spells, making my drunken one highly vulnerable, so if they aren't vulnerable to her status I'm probably better off giving her a temporary replacement.

Most bosses can be inflicted with PSN. Probably because it isn't hax or anything. Even the final boss!

Lily Sigil is very vulnerable to PAR. On my first playthrough, it got to attack like... once. lolPARabuse. 15F can be hit by it, but I don't remember if it was enough to be particularly effective. I don't believe it was. 16F is hit by it... sometimes. Don't count on it.

16F will always be hit by a stat debuff. 12F debuffer girl is wonderful for this battle, and 7F girl is useful as a replacement. If you don't use either of them, just try to use people who debuffs SPD and MAG at the least.

I'm fantasizing about using the 2 characters you get after beating Final Boss v2, yet I'm not even trying to go beat the 12F boss right now. Yay procrastination.  :V

[mlkio]

It depends. Bosses get a bonus to their stats so you'll generally need to test it out. For instance Flandre cannot be stunned and Mokou cannot be poisoned even though their status resistances says otherwise.

Spoiler:

Ok, Plus disk time. Master Light Wings has been shot down to a smoldering pile of "The player wins", Chen, Yuugi and Nitori V.2 have been bested and until I gain far more levels, Boss Rush is impossible due to my victory against Final Boss having been pure luck as no Djinn Storm was used by her the entire time she could use it. Yuugi V.2 was pure lolz, she OHKOed almost everyone she targeted, she even dealt like 256k with Knockout in 3 Steps. What should I take down next? Meiling? Or maybe Yuyuko?

Meiling heals herself and can honestly be pretty annoying. Kill Yuyuko first.

[Serela]

Okay, I'm not sure how the Level-Up EXP modifier stat exactly calculates EXP needed to level. However, I have found a way that seems to work to find out what it is.

Reach lv12. Take required EXP to level again, add 20, divide by 22. Round to the nearest number (or perhaps simply round down). I tested the 5 characters I still have at lv1, and this got the correct number. With Komachi, it even got the exact number, no decimals.

I'm planning to use this to calculate the probable Level-Up Difficulty for the Plus-Disk characters, whenever I manage to get them. They are the only characters whom information we do not have for this stat.

[mlkio]

Okay, I'm not sure how the Level-Up EXP modifier stat exactly calculates EXP needed to level. However, I have found a way that seems to work to find out what it is.

Reach lv12. Take required EXP to level again, add 20, divide by 22. Round to the nearest number (or perhaps simply round down). I tested the 5 characters I still have at lv1, and this got the correct number. With Komachi, it even got the exact number, no decimals.

I'm planning to use this to calculate the probable Level-Up Difficulty for the Plus-Disk characters, whenever I manage to get them. They are the only characters whom information we do not have for this stat.

It's probably simpler then that. Why not just use Reimu's modifier as a base and get the number you want from that?

For instance Reimu is 88, so if she need 1000 exp to level, the real unmodified number would be 1000/.88.

[Serela]

It's probably simpler then that. Why not just use Reimu's modifier as a base and get the number you want from that?

For instance Reimu is 88, so if she need 1000 exp to level, the real unmodified number would be 1000/.88.

I just tried doing something like this. It looked promising at first, when Reimu's required EXP divided by 0.90 (her modifier is 90, which didn't work) gave a whole number. Marisa's did too... but it was a much different number. Remi's didn't divide evenly at all.

All I know is, the way I found works quite accurately. It certainly isn't the correct way to do it... but it is close enough to get the right answer most of the time, if not all. It'll do for now. With "for now" being whenever I reach Plus Disk for the second time. Just beat 12F boss~

[mlkio]

Just beat 12F boss~

Yea, this is going to be a long wait.

[SONIC BHOCOLATE STRIKER]

Well, I just started playing this. I am horrible at it but I'm going to keep playing it until I beat it.

This game has some awesome 4-star dialog goin' on. I love how it never takes itself seriously, and references anything it can get its hands on.

[mlkio]

I just tested it myself. I have no clue what you're talking about neo since it worked exactly how I said it would. I leveled everyone up to level 403. Reimu needed like 1.7m exp or something and I divided that by .9. Marisa needed exactly 1.10 of that number while Chen and Hong needed exactly .7 and .94 of that number respectively.

[trancehime]

Using Reimu as an average, mlkio has it pretty close. And by close I mean exact.

42/100, average level: 2500

EDIT: Meh, it's getting lonely down here in 30F... Nobody's beaten that boss yet? :/ I feel like I'm not posting anything of worth with my count of how many times I beat him.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Spoiler:

The equip Scourge... it exists! I started the game up this morning for a quick round of grinding and the 1st Diamond Knight I kill gives me the Scourge! Woohoo :toot: Now I just need that 100th equip >.>

[Serela]

Spoiler:

The equip Scourge... it exists! I started the game up this morning for a quick round of grinding and the 1st Diamond Knight I kill gives me the Scourge! Woohoo :toot: Now I just need that 100th equip >.>

100th equip comes from Boss Rush. :3

I just tested it myself. I have no clue what you're talking about neo since it worked exactly how I said it would. I leveled everyone up to level 403. Reimu needed like 1.7m exp or something and I divided that by .9. Marisa needed exactly 1.10 of that number while Chen and Hong needed exactly .7 and .94 of that number respectively.

Ooooh, they have to be the same level to get the same number, DUH. *facepalm* Remi's given EXP-Modifier must be incorrect though, because it still doesn't divide evenly. That was what really threw me off. Mmkay~

[MysTeariousYukari]

100th equip comes from Boss Rush. :3

Which is the big problem that I knew of. I can't beat Boss Rush at the moment as a few key foes,

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

,

Spoiler:

Yukari

and

Spoiler:

Rinnosuke

, will take a few of my chars down unless I grind a lot more.

[Serela]

From what I hear, you won't be able to handle Floor 21 until you reach lv200 anyway. So, take out all the other Mk2/Bloodstained bosses you haven't, and if you still aren't ready for Boss Rush, I'm afraid you'll just have to start grinding at 20F again.

Of course, I've barely played any Post-Game material, so I all I know is what people have said  :V

[Milkyway64]

EDIT: Meh, it's getting lonely down here in 30F... Nobody's beaten that boss yet? :/ I feel like I'm not posting anything of worth with my count of how many times I beat him.

Sorry. Those of us that are there cheated and the rest of us have already quit or moved on to a second playthrough.

I've seen said boss, but been to lazy to actually beat him. I think I may just not and get straight to playthrough 2.

[scherzo]

Which is the big problem that I knew of. I can't beat Boss Rush at the moment as a few key foes,

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

,

Spoiler:

Yukari

and

Spoiler:

Rinnosuke

, will take a few of my chars down unless I grind a lot more.

I'm guessing you're talking about boss rush mk.2? Clearing the first boss rush should have netted you item 100 (Great Question's Mask, +100% to all non hp/sp stats).

If not,

Spoiler:

equip DTH resist for Yuyuko, master spark/unload on Yukari to kill her before she can Djinn storm, and just power through Rinnosuke to avoid getting your TP reduced by too much. Cosmic (seal guardian on 19F)/final boss should be the only threats. As long as you can beat the final boss, level is not really important for this fight; proper management of TP to get to the final boss in a winnable state is.

From what I hear, you won't be able to handle Floor 21 until you reach lv200 anyway. So, take out all the other Mk2/Bloodstained bosses you haven't, and if you still aren't ready for Boss Rush, I'm afraid you'll just have to start grinding at 20F again.

You'll be able to handle 21F much earlier, but it's pointless to grind there (or at any level from 21-24F for that matter) since exp/skill points gain is inferior to 20F, despite the enemies being harder (much harder in the case of 24F). Just explore to get the items.

The Reimu lvl 200 number is for when you want to tackle the 21F and 22F seal guardians. 24F can be kept in paralysis lockdown and done much earlier.

[Ghaleon]

Which is the big problem that I knew of. I can't beat Boss Rush at the moment as a few key foes,

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

,

Spoiler:

Yukari

and

Spoiler:

Rinnosuke

, will take a few of my chars down unless I grind a lot more.

Spoiler:

at your level Yuyuko shouldn't be a threat other than her death effects. Just make a mental note of who your most death resistant people are in your party, and make sure you have them out before her. Yukari is can hurt, but not until the end phase buff thingie, at that point you should simply be able to nuke her down before she even really does anything though, she IS fragile. Don't save your master spark late in the fight, she'll djinn storm your ass if you wait too long. Rinn is a joke, he never hit hard, he's more of an endurance fight. He really shouldn't be doing much more than 0s most of the time (just hope he doesn't scarlet gold sword your back or something). But his tp-depleting nature can be a pain, just invest some points into TP just for this (If you're like me, everyone still had only 1 or 2 skillpoints devoted to it, spend a couple more if so, it makes a big diff). Maribel is really the only threat IMO.

[Just a GBZero]

Got pages 4 and 5 done for formatting for delay/lvl info.  Page 6 I'm not touching till it gets fleshed out a bit more, too many blanks and I dont feel like trying to fix something I have no clue on.