Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Rika and Nitori's Garage Experiments => Topic started by: Nobu on August 26, 2009, 04:58:51 AM
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Alright, since no one outright objected I split off Embodiment discussion to a separate topic. I'm going to try coming the past few discussion topics to see if there's anything else to include, plus get that chart posted here for Stage assignments for embodiments.
[From Info thread]
Idiot Embodiments:
- Idiot Embodiments are enemies randomly chosen from a group determined by stage.
- They will fire a different pattern associated with each Embodiment.
- If you kill an Embodiment, you will receive a bomb piece (? bomb) and the lost IE.
- An Embodiment will disappear after a set time. If it is not killed, you will receive a life piece (? life) and the lost IE.
- If you die when an Embodiment is on-screen, you lose 50 of the 100 stored IE. If you bomb, you lose 25. These will not stack, so you will always receive at least 50.
Idiot Embodiment Table: *NOTE* This has to be revamped later on in testing.
| | | Different IE () | | Possible IE | | Possible Lives (total) | | Possible Bombs (total) |
| Stage 1 | | 3 | | 4 | | 1 (1) | | 2 (2) |
| Stage 2 | | 2 (+1) | | 4 | | 1 (2) | | 2 (4) |
| Stage 3 | | 2 (+1) | | 5 | | 1? (3?) | | 2? (6?) |
| Stage 4 | | 4 | | 5 | | 1? (4?) | | 2? (9) |
| Stage 5 | | 2 (+2) | | 6 | | 1? (6) | | 3 (12) |
| Stage 6 | | 2 (+2) | | 4 | | 1 (7) | | 2 (14) |
| Stage EX | | 3 | | 10 | | 2 | | 5 |
| Stage PH | | 3 | | 6 (+2/+2) | | 1? (+?) | | 3 (+1) |
- In the main game, it is theoretically possible to encounter 28 Embodiments, counting a probable 28*100+99=2899 obtainable IE (just because), resulting in a 28990 possible gain and a net 48990 point value. 7 extra lives can be obtained, equaling a net 10 lives. Conversely, 14 extra bombs can be obtained, equaling a net 16 bombs.
- In the Extra stage, out of 10 possible Embodiments, 8 life fragments can be given for 2 lives, in addition to 1 possible bomb. (4+4+2)
- In the Phantasm stage, out of 6 possible Embodiments, 4 life fragments can be given for 1 life, in addition to 1 possible bomb. (4+2) Each midboss also drops a bomb and life fragment, resulting in a possible extra life if two life fragments are already collected. Conversely, an extra bomb is obtainable.
Embodiments: 19
*NOTE* This is for me to keep track of requests, not assignments
N-Forza
Flashtirade
Xan
MTG
Kuma
Dragoshi
Sanasanasan
Ana-chan
Vladimir
Cadmas
Pako
Rikter
Matsuri
Prody
Muffin
Doomsday
Skye
Onthenet
Ammy
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The Idiocy kind of swallows people. The wacky idiot energy in their bodies starts to go awry and they join the blue mist. When enough idiot energy is just lying around it turns into a character the Idiocy has swallowed. It isn't the character themselves, either.
Stage 1
-Doomsday
-Prody
-Flashtirade
Stage 2
-Rikter
-Anthony
*
Stage 3
-Cadmas
*Anthony
Stage 4
-MTG
-Sana
-Lenin
*Sapz
Stage 5
-Kuma
-Ammy
*Sana
*Lenin
Stage 6
-Xan
-Matsuri
*
**MTG
Stage EX
-Skye
-Dragoshi
-Onthenet
Stage OM
-N-Forza
-Muffin
-Pako
Hyphens denote single-stage, asterisks denote appearing in the stage before and the double asterisk means you appeared in stage 4, but not 5.
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Hmm, so the embodiment stage thing came up? Well, if possible, could Iji-Gap be in the same stage as Xan, whichever that is. It'll tie in with the ijiatsu story I'm writing ^^
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How many per stage? Because that would make the last stage Xan, Matsuri, and Gap so far.
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Hmmm... Since stage 6 probably won't be very long, I guess three Embodiments is probably enough. Not sure about the other stages, though...
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It depends on how we end up doing the embodiments though, Onee-chan. If we go with my idea of having more embodiments on a stage than could show up in a single play-through, we could have more than three. Though I don't know if we decided on something or put off that idea until later.
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Stage 6 gets at least 400 IE, yielding 4 Embodiments and one possible life or two possible bombs.
NEW: Yeah, there are only two Embodiments native to Stage 6. If you all want to get in, you'll have to sign up for Stage 5 and get in that way. As of now, Xan for sure is in Stage 6 and Rikter is for sure in Stage 2.
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should there be a way to prevent the same embodiment from apearing twice in a row?
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Updated first post with our current embodiment list, still looking for that one chart by Drake. And what do you mean by "native to Stage 6?" If there are only two embodiments on stage six, and up to 4 embodiments can appear, doesn't that mean that the same embodiment will appear twice?
Drake, I didn't realize you were on the Embodiment list. I thought you were one of the bosses or Slaves' assistant? I don't know if you have your heart set on being an embodiment, but maybe we could swap you out for someone else that isn't in the game yet?
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So we would have 2 Extra mid bosses like Phantasm?
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So errr, are we going with the Embodiments being like UFOs or random mid bosses?
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I'm going to merge previous Embodiment discussion to this thread, it should immediately follow the first post.
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Somebody who can edit posts, go to the info thread and paste the table with proper structure here.
The first column indicates the different characters that can be found in that stage. The first number are the ones that appear only in that stage, and the second number (+?) are Embodiments that appear in both that stage, and the stage before it. (To compensate, they aren't found as often as the other two).
The second column indicates how many Embodiments are possible to spawn in the stage; or rather, the number times 100 gives around how much IE is possible to obtain in that stage.
The third column indicates how many lives you can obtain in that stage, and also how many net lives you'll have if you got every Embodiment and always got lives. The fourth column is similar but with Bombs.
EDIT: Going to put some things I said in earlier threads here.
Perhaps in stage 1, when Jan explodes, he releases the entire 100 IE, that creates an Embodiment nigh-immediately. By then, the player will be accustomed to seeing IE, and if they see the IE gather when there's such a huge amount and they get a bomb or life piece, they'll almost certainly be convinced to replicate that scenario.
You have pros and cons of summoning Embodiments.
In scoring there would be a qualm of to-collect-or-not-to-collect. If you summon an Embodiment and not die, you get all 100 IE back, in addition to extra graze possibilities which nets you multiplier and max-value Points. On the flip side, the pattern decided (originally) will be randomized, so depending on where you are in the stage and what pattern you get it might throw you totally off. If you bomb or die you lose IE and also some of the stored IE as well, which altogether would be worse than just collecting all the IE in the first place. It will require planning, that's for sure.
Survival on the other hand is simpler, but you still have a decision to make. If you want lives or bombs you do need to summon Embodiments, but you can't bomb them all because if you kill them you get bombs back (redundant gain), and if you die while trying to survive to get the life piece the result is the same, redundant. If you kill it as soon as possible you get your bomb piece quickly, which is the method with the best danger-reward ratio, but all in all going for lives is more beneficial. It's all if the player decides whether or not they want to take a risk with the stage, in both scoring and survival. It's just that the reasons for doing so are different.
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Posted the table with proper structure Drake.
If you want, I can fuse one of your older posts so you'll always have the second post in this topic, or you can just modify the one there right now.
Fused, your post should always be second regardless of what I merge to this thread later on.
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I think I called what stage I wanted to show up in earlier, but I can't remember which one it was so just put me in OMES. If for whatever reason I need to be moved, Stage 4 and Stage 5 are my next picks in order.
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I am leaning towards stage 4 or 5.
Maybe have a different appearance-animation, to play up the "unexpected" thing ... mm, nah, it's not actually the character, that doesn't matter as much.
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If it is theoretically possible to encounter 28 Embodiments, but there are only 20 available, that would certainly mean there would be repeats, even if the order of appearance is randomized each playthrough. If some variety is needed, I'd like to be added to the list. I have ideas for some quick patterns too.
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There's already sorta an embodiment waiting list, and even if we tool things around to get more people in we probably won't be able to fit everyone. So it's marginally possible, but don't get your hopes up. :(
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If it would be any help at all to reduce the length of the Embodiment list, I'd be happy to join you and Mode as a midboss of stage 6~
That way it can be the sisterhood attacking all at once!
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If it would be any help at all to reduce the length of the Embodiment list, I'd be happy to join you and Mode as a midboss of stage 6~
That way it can be the sisterhood attacking all at once!
Two midbosses on Stage 6 was already pushing it, and it's only feasible because Mode and I will probably be sharing our one midboss spellcard, and coming back later to help Theorin in battle ala Ran and Chen. Adding another to that would probably be difficult logistically, and would make the last stage even more full of bosses (Me, Mode, Theorin, Rin Satsuki, and then Embodiments)and you'd have to be worked in to Theorin's plot, and.. Yeah, sorry.. ;_;
There are other potential ways to get a few more people in and reduce the size of the embodiment list and/or add more people in that i've mentioned in the past, but we haven't made concrete. Stage 4 has Tenshi reappear as a midboss which is a holdover from when Rou first wrote up the concept. If we replace Tenshi with someone else, that's one more person in the game. That and there are a couple of other different ways we might be able to fit a few more people in.
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I would like to be an embodiment for stage 1! Clones should stick together! :V
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Two midbosses on Stage 6 was already pushing it, and it's only feasible because Mode and I will probably be sharing our one midboss spellcard, and coming back later to help Theorin in battle ala Ran and Chen. Adding another to that would probably be difficult logistically, and would make the last stage even more full of bosses (Me, Mode, Theorin, Rin Satsuki, and then Embodiments)and you'd have to be worked in to Theorin's plot, and.. Yeah, sorry.. ;_;
:'(
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I want to be a stage 3 embodiment.
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Drake: "Hyphens denote single-stage, asterisks denote appearing in the stage before and the double asterisk means you appeared in stage 4, but not 5." Can you elaborate?
I'm seeing 21 -s, and 6 * and **s. So, the dashes are native to the stage, and the asterisks are Embodiments that were in the previous stage but are also in that stage too? Is that how it works?
And so are we going to have the embodiments randomly chosen or appear in a set order? And will it be possible to run into the same embodiment more than once per run through? (I'm assuming yes, because 20 embodiments with 28 possible appearances)
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I have absolutely no stage preference, so use me to fill up any gaps once all the other spots are chosen. Also was embodiment difficulty ever decided on? I suggested that they be as strong as a PoFV Dragon attack, but that's not taking into account that we could design the stages around the embodiment encounters.
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PoFV Dragon would be too overpowering and cluttering. Embodiment difficulty is probably going to be Fairy or Witch level at most. If the Embodiments were that complex, then what's the point of even having midbosses, non-cards, or generic and death fairies?
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Question. Does anyone know where/typography the battles of the stages are taking place?
I might change based on the answer.
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PoFV Dragon would be too overpowering and cluttering. Embodiment difficulty is probably going to be Fairy or Witch level at most. If the Embodiments were that complex, then what's the point of even having midbosses, non-cards, or generic and death fairies?
Why not make them based on stage?
Stage 1-2: Fairy
Stage 3-4: Witch
Stage 5-6: Dragon
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Question. Does anyone know where/typography the battles of the stages are taking place?
I might change based on the answer.
Typography?
There's a rough concept in place currently. Ultimately it'll end up being what fits the best based on story/aesthetic situations, with the effort to satisfy as many people's requests for a stage as possible. But if you don't get the exact stage that you want, :dwi:?
Why not make them based on stage?
Stage 1-2: Fairy
Stage 3-4: Witch
Stage 5-6: Dragon
Honestly, the only thing that is for sure about the embodiment shot patterns right now is that they will not have 'spell cards'. Difficulty and shot patterns of embodiments is largely up to the programmers and when the stages are being balanced.
The problem with having stage 5-6 being dragon, is you have to realize that there's still going to be normal stuff going on in the stage. Imagine taking a stage 6 from any of the Touhous, then add Embodiments doing semi-random non-synched Dragon class patterns on top of what's already there? It'll be a random clusterfuck of bullets.
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The problem with having stage 5-6 being dragon, is you have to realize that there's still going to be normal stuff going on in the stage. Imagine taking a stage 6 from any of the Touhous, then add Embodiments doing semi-random non-synched Dragon class patterns on top of what's already there? It'll be a random clusterfuck of bullets.
Just like in PoFV! I'd be all over that <3
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I thought the embodiments was supposed to be a way of throwing off memorization. Although using Dragon level stuff with a normal stage would be annoying.
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On the contrary （☆ヮ☆）
I live for clusterfucks of bullets @_@
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On the contrary （☆ヮ☆）
I live for clusterfucks of bullets @_@
GET OUT
I love you too, onee-chan. ~your jilted imouto
I thought the embodiments was supposed to be a way of throwing off memorization. Although using Dragon level stuff with a normal stage would be annoying.
The embodiments ultimately were supposed to be a way to pack a lot more people into this game than we realistically could while still keeping it in Touhou format. :V
We don't want to make embodiments so frustratingly difficult that no one activates them because its a death sentence. And part of the 'predictability' in a stage is because the stage events are orchestrated to the music.
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PoFV Normal Dragon Attack ---> Ijiyatsu Hard Embodiment?
The reason I made the suggestion is because they're completely trivial on their own; the challenge comes from the combination of the attack and the stage.
Stage 1-2: Fairy
Stage 3-4: Witch
Stage 5-6: Dragon
Aren't the Dragon attacks easier than the Witch attacks, aside from the fact that they are repeated as long as the boss still exists?
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By the way, I just checked my PMs, so I'm just poping by real quick to say stage 4 lol
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The level of difficulty of the embodiments is going to have to be tested, tweaked, and tested again. No amount of speculation can take the place of that really. It needs to be balanced where the game doesn't seem like boss spam clusterfuck of bullets, but the embodiments should still contribute to the randomness a bit without completely overwhelming the stage planning. Whether it turns out to be described as 'dragon', 'witch' 'fairy', whatever doesn't matter in the least.
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By the way, I just checked my PMs, so I'm just poping by real quick to say stage 4 lol
I think you need a reason on why you would fit if its any stage past 3...
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Aren't the Dragon attacks easier than the Witch attacks, aside from the fact that they are repeated as long as the boss still exists?
Not particularly.
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I think you need a reason on why you would fit if its any stage past 3...
Really? I just picked any number, but I'm fine with whatever really.
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Extra or (preferably) Phantasm would be nice since they're my favourite stages in the Touhou games, but anywhere is okay, really. :V
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but just a thought: to avoid the whole embodiment clusterfuck problem, maybe there could be designated IE sections to a degree? Nothing set in stone, but certain areas where the bullets are sparse and there's crazy amounts of IE everywhere, so that the player has the option of either cruising through an easy section or pulling a risk/reward gambit by summoning the embodiment. With bullets from normal enemies being sparse at those points, it'd also allow for more complexity in the patterns of the embodiments without it becoming crazy impossible. :V
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That's one of the ways that Embodiments would be managed, yes. Collecton of IE throughout the stage will be controlled on principle.
The Embodiments don't have to be crazy difficult to make things harder on the player. Just an extra wave of bullets that isn't orchestrated with what's going on in the stage is enough to throw you off.
I think you need a reason on why you would fit if its any stage past 3...
It's not an exact science, but the Embodiments and what stage they are on should *sorta* make sense from a bird's eye view.
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personally I would be perfectly fine on stage 3, it's a good place for where a evil spirit can play around in~
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Ok, since it seems like people have been mostly picking stages arbitrarily..
The reason why I wanted you all to have the option to put in your stage requests, is NOT to randomly request a stage for no reason aside from they like the stage number or things like that, because if you have no good reason then you'll probably be arbitrarily assigned based on where you seem to fit the best.
Like for example, Xan is Stage 6 because she's Theorin's maid. Matsuri and I have some kind of vague relationship in game, and we both have the pet things, so she fits in S6 too. Skye is a bird type, and the first two stages are going to be outdoors and in the open, so she would fit there the best. (Note Skye had no preference, and I just figured out where she fit)
This is not an exact science. N-Forza is a Special Member, and also occupies a special niche in the MotK community, which to me seems like he would fit in OMES. Also, N-Forza --> Bemani --> OMES, it fits. If you have any sort of relationships or associations with the bosses, midbosses, or whatnot, that makes it more likely you'll fit in with a certain stage. Some embodiments are more loose than that, and could fit in multiple stages. They don't all have to fit perfectly due to the backstory of the embodiments, but it's nice to not have things be completely random either.
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I might have to make a giant all-encompassing post in the near-future to make all the principles easier to understand.
I thought that the final Embodiment count was 21, sorry. I changed Stage 4 to have only three hyphens so could you please change Different IE@Stage 4 to "3 (+1)", Nobu?
You have it right for the hyphens and such. The ones located in the hyphens are all Embodiments that appear only in that stage. The ones located in the asterisks are Embodiments that are included in that stage, and were also found in the stage before. The one Embodiment with the double asterisk will be found in Stage 6 and is also from Stage 4. This is all set up this way so that each stage has quite a few choices of Embodiments without too much repetition. In addition, this compliments what Nobu just said about certain Embodiments being able to fit in multiple stages.
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Matsuri and I have some kind of vague relationship in game, and we both have the pet things, so she fits in S6 too.
I'm as much your sister as Mode and Moerin :(
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I'm as much your sister as Mode and Moerin :(
Yes, but by that principle, everyone fits in stage 6. =P
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Yes, but by that principle, everyone fits in stage 6. =P
Lies, I will always be Pesco's Otouto >:<
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Yes, but by that principle, everyone fits in stage 6. =P
Not me! :V
but on a more serious note...
To be honest, after thinking it over... I don't really see anywhere in particular I'd fit in, really. Then again it doesn't really help that I can't come up with anything that'd work as decent reasoning, so. :/
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Godmothers are just plain better than Queens. Look at every fairytale and you know it's true. :V
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I'm as much your sister as Mode and Moerin :(
Yes, but by that principle, everyone fits in stage 6. =P
Rou was my first Imouto, and he's a PC. So how does that work exactly? :V
Not everything is going to transfer over into Ijiyatsu perfectly. We will not be able to map the wide variety of relationships, situations, and jokes into Ijiyatsu without making a super contrived plot, backstory, and bio that would put Star Wars to shame.
Please don't make this any harder on me, Matsuri. ;_; If I could, I wish I could satisfy everyone's desires and put them in this game exactly as they wanted. However, it will not result in a good game, and we might as well call this Ijiyatsu ~ Monarchly Mary Sue.
So, tl;dr: :suwakodwi:
I thought that the final Embodiment count was 21, sorry. I changed Stage 4 to have only three hyphens so could you please change Different IE@Stage 4 to "3 (+1)", Nobu?
You have it right for the hyphens and such. The ones located in the hyphens are all Embodiments that appear only in that stage. The ones located in the asterisks are Embodiments that are included in that stage, and were also found in the stage before. The one Embodiment with the double asterisk will be found in Stage 6 and is also from Stage 4. This is all set up this way so that each stage has quite a few choices of Embodiments without too much repetition. In addition, this compliments what Nobu just said about certain Embodiments being able to fit in multiple stages.
Alright, will do. Two things we might want to consider:
Finding space for Ammy and E-mouse in the embodiments list: I think these are the only two people not in the game that probably should be. If we take you out of the embodiment list (in exchange for a different role in Extra stage), adding in those two would make it 21 embodiments like you originally thought they were. They both already have concept art too.
Edible and Benny: There really is no spot for them in the main game (and Edible and Benny don't really seem to interested either way), so we should probably make a concrete decision about whether or not to put them in, instead of leaving them in the "They are mods so they should be in the game" boat. I'm going to throw the first stone and say probably not (as OMES is already packed as is), and they'd probably be better suited to a sequel or Last Word or something.
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Ok, since it seems like people have been mostly picking stages arbitrarily..
The reason why I wanted you all to have the option to put in your stage requests, is NOT to randomly request a stage for no reason aside from they like the stage number or things like that, because if you have no good reason then you'll probably be arbitrarily assigned based on where you seem to fit the best.
Like for example, Xan is Stage 6 because she's Theorin's maid. Matsuri and I have some kind of vague relationship in game, and we both have the pet things, so she fits in S6 too. Skye is a bird type, and the first two stages are going to be outdoors and in the open, so she would fit there the best. (Note Skye had no preference, and I just figured out where she fit)
This is not an exact science. N-Forza is a Special Member, and also occupies a special niche in the MotK community, which to me seems like he would fit in OMES. Also, N-Forza --> Bemani --> OMES, it fits. If you have any sort of relationships or associations with the bosses, midbosses, or whatnot, that makes it more likely you'll fit in with a certain stage. Some embodiments are more loose than that, and could fit in multiple stages. They don't all have to fit perfectly due to the backstory of the embodiments, but it's nice to not have things be completely random either.
Ah, okay, fair enough. In that case, how about Stage 3 before Baity? There's the whole fellow Lunatic thing going on then, so I could be a danmaku sparring partner or something. :V
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Ah, okay, fair enough. In that case, how about Stage 3 before Baity? There's the whole fellow Lunatic thing going on then, so I could be a danmaku sparring partner or something. :V
I was actually thinking that. :V That's the sort of thing I was taking about when I was saying "putting people where they fit". Some people just have obvious connections, like you and Baity with the lunatic madness. :3
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Okay then, I'm out and Amm-E are in. Sapz is now in Stage 3 and the count is back at 21. change it back to "4" now lol
I don't know why Edible and Benny came up in the first place, honestly. No offense but they aren't the most active people, especially towards CPMC for obvious reasons. If they show no interest and it'd be hard to put them in anyways, it's less of a bother just tossing the idea.
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Okay then, I'm out and Amm-E are in. Sapz is now in Stage 3 and the count is back at 21. change it back to "4" now lol
F-- I had a feeling i'd be doing this :V Changing back.
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Ok, threw a few more Embodiments into tentative level assignments.
An-chan: You'll be native to Stage 2, and also appearing in Stage 3 (both Stage 3 slots were taken)
Kuma: Stage 4STAGE 5, because that stage has A-F and UK and will probably be the 'deviant' stage :V
Pako: Threw you in Stage 1 for the reasons I already said :3
N-Forza: Threw you into OMES.
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Only reason I picked stage 2 is because of the one contest where I was paired with Tenshi. But Seeing as I control Birds I could fit in any outside stage well.
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Stage 5 has UK and A-F, Stage 4 has Vic :V
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Oh feck, I mixed them up. Fixed. :V Also, we have something to discuss~
Rikter: That's a fine enough reason as far as i'm concerned.
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I only put Edible and Benny because "welp they're mods so they might deserve a spot" but yeah the game's already pretty packed so I'll strike em out.
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What with Drake and Slaves both being non-Embodiments in EX, that might be a good "default" for game staff Embodiments who've got no other preferences. (Though are there any? I think the only one on the Embodiment list might be Onthenet.)
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Um about E-mouse, I thought he was going to be a comical character and do that sign holding thing but not actually be fightable anywhere, except maybe with a last word.
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Um about E-mouse, I thought he was going to be a comical character and do that sign holding thing but not actually be fightable anywhere, except maybe with a last word.
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We could do that if you're fine with it, and replace you with Arashi then.
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We could do that if you're fine with it, and replace you with Arashi then.
I support this motion.
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I am more than fine with it. Thankies.
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Alright that works
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Oh hey cool beans.
Though now this means I have to figure out what stage to be on. :V
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Oh hey cool beans.
Though now this means I have to figure out what stage to be on. :V
You = SCIENCE!
Stage 4 = Vic Viper's Stage
Assignment made 8)
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You = SCIENCE!
Stage 4 = Vic Viper's Stage
Assignment made 8)
OK o/
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Also, now that I think of it, Stage 4 is going to be the 'falling to the ocean inside the shrine' stage, so it'll be amusing having our Nitori look-alike on the watery stage :V
*edit* moving stage related discussion to general Discussion thread
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Um about E-mouse, I thought he was going to be a comical character and do that sign holding thing but not actually be fightable anywhere, except maybe with a last word.
I had an idea last night when I was trying to fall asleep playing off this a little bit. I've got no clue how feasible it'd be to implement but my guess is either "not feasible at all" or "actually really easy once we've got the Embodiment system implemented at all".
Perhaps any time an Embodiment is created, have a slim* chance of it being E-mouse regardless of stage. E-mouse just stands around and holds the sign and doesn't shoot danmaku, but otherwise behaves like any other Embodiment (i.e. with regard to drops and such).
(* My intention is low enough that you can't rely on being likely to get the benefit of the easy/joke Embodiment even so much as once per playthrough, but not so rare that a relatively casual player is unlikely to come across it ever. My initial gut feeling is something like a 0.5-1% chance each time an Embodiment is summoned in the main game, possibly higher in EX and OMES since they don't have up to 28 Embodiments per playthrough.)
This may be a horrible horrible idea regardless of implementation feasibility and I give you all free rein to shoot me for it. Just figured I'd get it out there anyway while it was on my mind.
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I think that's a pretty amusing idea. :V Don't know how practical it is, but it's an idea to nestle away there.
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It would be easy. As long as it's fine with Slaves making yet another portrait to shape into a sprite, etc.
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Random idea I had for Idiot Energy: instead of just sitting in one place, Idiot Energy items are attracted to each other, and merge together when they collide; when enough of them combine that they're worth 100, it becomes an Embodiment.
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I'm not quite sure how that would end up looking, but then again I'm not sure how a bunch of blue items would look just floating everywhere, either. I think something like that would be decided after we get a sample of what the game will look like.
Expanding on that, we could make pseudo-gravity for them with attraction based on their size/how many are collected.
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This is far removed from what we originally have planned, but it's just a thought that I figured i'd share.
What if the idiot energy was not represented by little point items, but instead as a blue tinged mist-like particle effect ala Medicine's poison clouds? Enemies get defeated, release this mist, and it starts to gather and become more dense near the top of the screen. Once it reaches a certain point, the mists coalesce into an embodiment.
The level of concentration can be represented by a number on the side, so you have a numerical as well as a graphical representation of how much mist is there. (Honestly, we'll probably need a counter for how much free idiot energy there is anyway, since trying to keep track of how close you are to a hundred IE floating around will be difficult just from eyeballing it)
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It might make things difficult to see but it probably would look nicer then a bunch of floating (9) balls
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Floating ⑨ balls would probably make things hard to see, too. Unless we made the special-effects the same size (or only slightly bigger than) the nineballs.
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Well, we'll be able to see how it looks once the test stage is up and running.
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I'll probably be using the testicles for the test stage, if a graphic and suggested coding pattern doesn't show up for the mist before I "finish".
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Tentative embodiment stage assignments are done, check them out.
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Whoa, I'm in OMES? Cool.
Now that ... *sunglasses* ... was unexpected.
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Whoa, I'm in OMES? Cool.
Now that ... *sunglasses* ... was unexpected.
Thank Nwbi, that comic is exactly why I stuck you there :V
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Ah, indeed, that makes sense.
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That wasn't really the intention. KimikoMuffin can appear anywhere anytime because she is unexpected.
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That wasn't really the intention. KimikoMuffin can appear anywhere anytime because she is unexpected.
Spanish Inquimuffin?
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That wasn't really the intention. KimikoMuffin can appear anywhere anytime because she is unexpected.
Just pretend you never saw where Muffin was assigned then~ ;p
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Attention embodiments/death fairies/non-boss peoples
I'm going to be starting on Embodiment code shortly, so it would be supergreatfuntastic if you all gave me an idea of how you wanted your danmaku to be. I'm trying to keep the Embodiment danmaku short and sweet, about the length/complexity of Mountain of Faith's nonspells. Also, please tell me what bullet type/colors you want, unless you want to end up with generic pellets. For the describing impaired, please review this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4016.msg199797#msg199797), since I can't afford translators in the event of un-understandable psuedopseudocode.
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Embodiment stuff
I honestly have no clue what I want my simple pateren to look like to be honest but I would prefer Knife bullets.
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Attention embodiments/death fairies/non-boss peoples
I'm going to be starting on Embodiment code shortly, so it would be supergreatfuntastic if you all gave me an idea of how you wanted your danmaku to be. I'm trying to keep the Embodiment danmaku short and sweet, about the length/complexity of Mountain of Faith's nonspells. Also, please tell me what bullet type/colors you want, unless you want to end up with generic pellets. For the describing impaired, please review this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4016.msg199797#msg199797), since I can't afford translators in the event of un-understandable psuedopseudocode.
This is my idea for mine
(http://i47.tinypic.com/24qlqok.png)
My character releases a bunch of feathers then the feathers slowly move down and side to side like a falling feather. (This next part can be changed if you dont like it) Then launches two large bullets from the side that curve and leave a small cluster. Then the feathers stop in place for a second with the quills pointing at the player then fly towards them one by one
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My concept of my Embodiment-pattern! Bullets look like pairs of scissors colored blue and green (though I can settle for Blue/Green 21 bullets). The premise revolves around generating two rings of bullets with identical behavior (maybe just one on easy and more on higher difficulties), but one spawns and moves half a second after the other.
Each ring spawns at the boss, and moves out to form a stationary ring around the boss for a short moment. Then each individual bullet of that ring starts moving, aimed at the player, so that they form a sort of squished figure-eight around where the player was (Chen and I think Youmu each have patterns that behave like this in PCB). But then! A random amount of time later (say between 1-3 seconds), the bullets change direction, once again aimed at the player. The delay is the same for both rings, so the second ring changes direction half a second after the first one again.
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My concept of my Embodiment-pattern! Bullets look like pairs of scissors colored blue and green (though I can settle for Blue/Green 21 bullets). The premise revolves around generating two rings of bullets with identical behavior (maybe just one on easy and more on higher difficulties), but one spawns and moves half a second after the other.
Each ring spawns at the boss, and moves out to form a stationary ring around the boss for a short moment. Then each individual bullet of that ring starts moving, aimed at the player, so that they form a sort of squished figure-eight around where the player was (Chen and I think Youmu each have patterns that behave like this in PCB). But then! A random amount of time later (say between 1-3 seconds), the bullets change direction, once again aimed at the player. The delay is the same for both rings, so the second ring changes direction half a second after the first one again.
May I suggest something?
Upon the embodiment being summoned, there should be a 10 or so second wait in which nothing happens before the embodiment appears with a loud sound effect and attacks, as if it were a dud. That way it's UNEXPECTED. (The first time the player encounters this, anyway.)
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Not necessarily! This is just an Embodiment, after all, not the real Muffin.
But that reminds me of another idea: at some point between waves, she randomly fires a single fast-moving bullet at the player.
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Not necessarily! This is just an Embodiment, after all, not the real Muffin.
But wouldn't they still have the same abilities as who they copy?
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I was always under the impression that the Embodiments were mindless, and thus, y'know, don't have the same awesomeness as the originals. I'm pretty sure there was some talk of them not having unique patterns, just generic "Embodiment patterns" ...
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I was always under the impression that the Embodiments were mindless, and thus, y'know, don't have the same awesomeness as the originals. I'm pretty sure there was some talk of them not having unique patterns, just generic "Embodiment patterns" ...
It's either or. They *will* be mostly generic (as trying to come up with 20 characteristic flavored unique simple patterns is both kinda ridiculous and impossible). But if people want minor cosmetic things like "I'd like my character to use knife denmeku instead of regular bullets" then that would fly.
Also, balancing difficulty of embodiments is another logistic problem that can't be tackled until after the stage. If the embodiments are too difficult, then later in the stages or on higher difficulties an embodiment is suicide to summon (shouldn't be that much of a discouragement), but you have to make the stages difficult enough to stand alone as is.
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My character releases a bunch of feathers then the feathers slowly move down and side to side like a falling feather. (This next part can be changed if you dont like it) Then launches two large bullets from the side that curve and leave a small cluster. Then the feathers stop in place for a second with the quills pointing at the player then fly towards them one by one
Can you be specific with what color you want the "feathers" to be? I'm assuming you mean the small crystals that Cirno uses... Pattern is definitely doable though.
My concept of my Embodiment-pattern! Bullets look like pairs of scissors colored blue and green (though I can settle for Blue/Green 21 bullets). The premise revolves around generating two rings of bullets with identical behavior (maybe just one on easy and more on higher difficulties), but one spawns and moves half a second after the other.
Each ring spawns at the boss, and moves out to form a stationary ring around the boss for a short moment. Then each individual bullet of that ring starts moving, aimed at the player, so that they form a sort of squished figure-eight around where the player was (Chen and I think Youmu each have patterns that behave like this in PCB). But then! A random amount of time later (say between 1-3 seconds), the bullets change direction, once again aimed at the player. The delay is the same for both rings, so the second ring changes direction half a second after the first one again.
So it's basically PoFV Reimu's Lvl 3 attack, with a ring being added per difficulty? That's fine. I can make it either have alternating green/blue bullets, or have a green ring then a blue ring, etc.
As far as how generic Embodiments should be, I thought the example of Mountain of Faith non-cards would be enough. Basically, no unique bullet types, and attack will likely be only 2 simple phases (ex, a few rings of bullets, then an aimed wave, repeat). This doesn't mean we can't make cool attacks, but you have to keep in mind that your attack is in addition to the stage enemies and only lasts about 12 seconds.
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Can you be specific with what color you want the "feathers" to be? I'm assuming you mean the small crystals that Cirno uses... Pattern is definitely doable though.
The feathers would be white and brown. Yea it is similar to Icicle Fall but the feathers come out at a random direction and go towards the player one by one instead of all at the same time
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(http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af263/Sanasanasan/Other/denmeku.png)
I AM SO IMAGINATIVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq0JBIidbVk)
So yeah...IIDX note danmaku. I'm thinking the bottom part with the keys on them comes up slowly, then the "notes" start falling in chords, scales, etc. I guess harder difficulties would make the "chart" harder, and/or increase the "bpm" of the danmaku?
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So a combo of Nazrin's nonspell and Lunasa's Lvl 3 attack? It definitely can't be as fast as the video, but everything else is fine.
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(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3958/stuffmaku.png)
Yyyyyeah fairies
They come in from the sides in a sine pattern and fire straight down
I like the ringed 04 bullets, and orange is my favorite color.
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So it's basically PoFV Reimu's Lvl 3 attack, with a ring being added per difficulty? That's fine. I can make it either have alternating green/blue bullets, or have a green ring then a blue ring, etc.
....
*goes to play a short match in PoFV*
Yes, exactly! Except the delay is slightly random.
My mental idea (I really didn't have a clear idea of colors) was for blue ring then green ring. So, Blue21 and Green21 bullets it is, then.
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Oh, we're doing Danmaku ideas for our embodiements? Ok, I've got one: Large pink paw Print shaped Bullets fire out in a random cluster and slow down as they keep moveing, than "Claws" formed by four beams extend from Kuma and she charges at the player, trepeating the pattern from her current position. does that sound good?
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I think a Mima charge would be better there, just have you return to top screen. Otherwise it becomes a rapefest. Lasers are cool though.
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Yeah that would probably be better
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than "Claws" formed by four beams extend from Kuma and she charges at the player
My, that seems familiar somehow... (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4630.msg222000#msg222000)
Feel free to reuse the respective code, it's not like it was difficult to program anyways. ;D
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Quoting discussion in chat for the record (Yukari is me)
[16:27] <Onthenet> hmm, muffin forgot to mention his embodiment was for OMES
[16:27] <Helepolis> See Drake, the person returned again :V
[16:27] <Helepolis> Because that was like obvious to happen
[16:28] <Helepolis> Fate has decided it
[16:28] <Magical_Moerin> Hmmm?
[16:29] <Yukari> -- oh right. Um ...
[16:29] <Helepolis> has nothing to do with you people, relax
[16:29] <Yukari> Three rings, um, blue-green-blue then.
[16:29] <Yukari> And shooting a single red21 aimed-bullet at random intervals.
[16:30] <Drake> that'd be a bit weird, the aimed bullet
[16:30] <Xan> ONE MORE EXTRA STAGE!
[16:31] <Drake> uh, yes
[16:31] <Drake> exactly
[16:31] <Yukari> It will be UNEXPECTED. |3
[16:31] <Yukari> That's the point~
[16:31] <Onthenet> hmm, to make muffin's attack better suited for stage difficulty
[16:31] <Drake> not really |3
[16:31] <Onthenet> 4 rings of bullets in a row, all slightly away from the boss like Mokou's nonspells
[16:32] <Drake> or kanakopener
[16:32] <Onthenet> kanakopener is only from 2 spots though
[16:32] <Onthenet> but that also works I guess
[16:32] <Onthenet> it's like kanakoreimu then
(I need to refresh my memory with Kanakopener, but that works)
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All I got (and I guess probably needed since I'm a stage 2 embodiment) is just a simple firing of danmaku in + and - formations at the player character, preferably colored red and blue respectively.
Basically aimed shots that are red + and blue - which I don't know if that is enough or not, I'm not exactly in the thinking mood for this.
Edit: redoing since I got a design change, and my new idea is just red danmaku that circles back, like a boomerang.
and if that is too complicated, just in straight aimed shots then, in streams. (and if it's already too late, that doesn't matter then, all your guys' choices of course)