Topic: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *Unreal Engine Scripters Wanted!*  (Read 13385 times)

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Spaztique

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First, a little backstory: I have always been bothered by the fact that Touhou, a top-down shooter, doesn't have any air combat fangames. It has 3d versions of the original games, there are 3d rail shooters, and a bazillion puzzle, platformer, and strategy games, but no air combat sims. There's Touhou Sky Arena, but that's an aerial fighting game where you stay locked on one single opponent (or at most three).

I thought I'd just tell myself it would be impossible, but the following videos did nothing to help my case:
Graze Combat - A parody of Ace Combat 6 and a perfect example of what a Touhou air combat sim would look like. This video served as the tipping point for my decision to make this thread.
Touhou Dogfight - A 3d rendering of the final battle from Subterranean Animism (and here's one using the game sounds). This is a perfect example of how a Touhou air combat sim would play.
A Reimu vs. Marisa battle, similar to Imperishable Night. This is a good example of both gameplay and the look/feel.

Not only is a Touhou Air Combat Sim possible, but if done right, it could be amazing.

What I want to make is a 3d 6DoF combat sim (similar to Descent, Forsaken, and Shattered Horizon) with a heavy dose of Ace Combat's arcade-style air combat. My idea is that there'll be a Classic mode where you fly alone from level to level and boss to boss, but there'll also be a Story Mode where you fly with a group of characters in a sprawling campaign. For example, if there was a Perfect Cherry Blossom campaign, Classic Mode's Level 1 would have you simply killing all of the enemies until Letty arrived, while Story Mode would have you traversing a snowy landscape with scripted sequences, from a Cirno attack to an ambush of fairies to Letty's appearance. Also, I know multiplayer (and VAs) would be unfathomably difficult, but I can dream, can't I?

Edit: Full concept is down below by four posts. Read it for a more in-depth look at what I want.

How desperate am I to make a Touhou air combat sim? I have bought a few books on game designs and a book on the Unreal Development Kit (it came with a copy of UT3 at the release retail price) just to make it a reality. I'll even settle for making a game mod, or let somebody else take up the project where they get full credit; as long as this game gets made.

If you are a modeller, game designer, scripter, or know much about the Unreal Development Kit or Blender, let me know if you want to contribute and make this game a reality.

Current Development Plan
Phase 1: Create Game System - 3% done.
Phase 2: Create character-specific weapons.
Phase 3: Alpha testing as a UT3 mod.
Phase 4: Acquire models/Make maps.
Phase 5: Beta testing as a standalone game.
Phase 6: A small Classic Mode campaign.
Phase 7: A small Story Mode campaign.
Phase 8: A full Classic Mode remake of a Touhou game. (Simple level designs, linear, kill the enemies and move on.)
Phase 9: An full Story Mode remake of a Touhou game. (Complex, dramatic, full of twists and turns.)
Phase 10: A full original Story Mode campaign, followed by making more remakes/original campaigns.

Overall Progress - Updated May 16th:
Coding: 4%
Modelling: 2%
Engine: 10%
Level Design: 1%
Sounds: 10% (currently using the default Touhou game sounds)
Music: 0%

Current To-Do List for Tech Demo:
-Get the following character models: Reimu, Marisa, fairies (in red, blue, and white uniform colors), and possibly Cirno.
-Make models for the power-ups, weapons, and props.
-Write codes for general controls, weapons, and game system.
-Make a map of the Hakurei Shrine.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 10:55:00 am by Spaztique »
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2011, 07:01:09 am »
Wait...doesn't Toho Sky Arena cover this? :colonveeplusalpha:

I don't think this is a very good idea...well, the game idea is perfectly fine but as for the actual implementation...it seems a bit over-ambitious at the current time given your programming level. This would definitely require a lot of collaboration, at the very least (I bet Schadenfreude and his love of Ace Combat will be really eager to help with this).

Don't count on VAs just yet, that's for later once everything else is in place. Models...well, there are scores of MMD and GTA models that can be converted and edited (I have too many of the latter). Music is another bit that the community can easily take care of.

...but as for the actual coding this is too much of a stretch.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 07:16:32 am by Miniscule Meiling's Picture Session »

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 03:25:19 pm »
Sky Arena only covers dueling type battles with limited movement. I'm talking about a game with complete freedom of movement through the whole game.

A better example of this that has worked in the past is the game Forsaken. Here's a level from single player, and here's a video of its fierce multiplayer.

And yes, I am aware VAs are a huge, huuuuge stretch, but so is the idea of me making this whole thing by myself. Still, no matter what, I will get this made (or inspire someone else to get it made).

(I guess should have mentioned my little game-making experience: I have made Starcraft 1 maps, C&C Red Alert mods, full RPG Maker games, and primitive flash games, so I have a little more experience than someone who's never tried their hand at game-making.)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 03:43:59 pm by Spaztique »
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 03:51:39 pm »
Sky Arena only covers dueling type battles with limited movement. I'm talking about a game with complete freedom of movement through the whole game.

A better example of this that has worked in the past is the game Forsaken. Here's a level from single player, and here's a video of its fierce multiplayer.
Ah, got it.

Quote
And yes, I am aware VAs are a huge, huuuuge stretch, but so is the idea of me making this whole thing by myself. Still, no matter what, I will get this made (or inspire someone else to get it made).

(I guess should have mentioned my little game-making experience: I have made Starcraft 1 maps, C&C Red Alert mods, full RPG Maker games, and primitive flash games, so I have a little more experience than someone who's never tried their hand at game-making.)
Yeah, should've mentioned past experience there.

Rather than making the entire thing yourself, one idea is to have the gameplay idea and then start a collaboration with others who can pitch in different assets. Though you might want to have your own proof-of-concept first.

(as for the music let's fill it to the brim with TTS-1 and Logic remixes, with a little bit of XG for fun :colonveeplusalpha:)

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 05:42:14 am »
Rather than making the entire thing yourself, one idea is to have the gameplay idea and then start a collaboration with others who can pitch in different assets. Though you might want to have your own proof-of-concept first.

For proof-of-concept, I'm currently trying to render a simple level in Unity. I got half of the terrain mapped out, but coding it all is going to be a far more daunting task.

I actually have the entire idea mapped out in my head, so let's see if people like it enough to jump on board. I know some of you will all say it can't be done, but think of this like a wish list for what will be in the game.

Overall: The Touhou Air Combat Sim Project will give players the ability to move in any possible direction at any angle: forwards, backwards, left, right, up, down, and the ability to roll. There will be outdoor arenas for typical air battles and spacious indoor areas for tactical combat. Gameplay is typical Touhou (lots of bullets, challenging boss fights, and so on), but with a new dizzying twist.

The controls would probably look something like this (and it might tell you what I have in store for gameplay):
W - Forwards
S - Back
A - Left
D - Right
Q - Roll/Bank Left
E - Roll/Bank Right
Middle Mouse/Space - Fly up/Jump while on the ground
Ctrl - Fly Down/Crouch while on the ground
Shift - Focus
Left Mouse - Shoot
Left Mouse (Hold) - Charge Shot (similar to PoFV or Fairy Wars)
X - Toggle Rapid Fire/Charge Shots
Right Mouse - Special Move (similar to the Level 1 attack from PoFV)
Mouse Wheel - Select Spell Cards
G - Toggle between staying upright or keeping the relative angle while rolling.
C - Land/Descend (for the indoor arenas)
F - Spell Card/Death Bomb
R - Follow Command (Single Player Story)/Talk (Multiplayer)
T - Attack Command (Single Player Story)/Team Talk (Multiplayer)
F1 - First Person Camera
F2 - Third Person Near
F3 - Third Person Far
F4 - Toggle Rear Camera (so you can see what's behind you)
1 - Select Easy-Level Spell Card (see the description of Story Mode)
2 - Select Normal-Level Spell Card
3 - Select Hard-Level Spell Card
4 - Select Lunatic-Level Spell Card
5 - Select LAST WORD Spell Card

Classic Mode: In Classic Mode, players simply fight their way through a level alone until reaching a boss. Players get to choose between shot/spell card types, bombs are easily replenished by killing stronger enemies,  there are no special moves, and cutscenes are simply pre-battle dialogue and endings. In other words, this is just Touhou in 3d and no pre-set flight path.

Story Mode: The core of the game, players actually traverse Gensokyo with a cast of characters with a series of objectives. Instead of simply going from level to level, each campaign is a unified experience where players travel from one location to the next. Players are armed with 15 initial spell cards of varying levels (Five Easy Cards, four Normal, three Hard, two Lunatic, and one LAST WORD) that are slowly replenished UFO-style by collecting bomb pieces off of enemies. Power is measured from 0.00 to 4.00, but as players increase in level, they unlock new attacks: special moves at 1.00, Fairy-Level charged attacks at 2.00 (similar to the shots a boss fires), Witch-Level charged attacks at 3.00, and Dragon-level charged attacks at 4.00. Players have only one life, but ten hit points, and each hit point is slowly restored by fighting enemies Fairy Wars-style.

Multiplayer in one seamless world: (This is the biggest stretch by far, but remember: it's a wish list.) If someone can recreate Gensokyo in Minecraft, imagine a fully rendered Gensokyo where players can travel anywhere at any time. Players can battle between the Scarlet Devil Mansion and Youkai Mountain, or between the Hakurei Shrine and the Forest of Magic. You could almost say it has no boundaries. (And if seamless multiplayer is impossible, how's about seven maps per campaign completed?)

Possible Multiplayer Games (feel free to take these for any of your fangames):
FREE-FOR-ALL and TEAM GAMES:
-Battle: Simply get more kills than all of the other players/team.
-Survival: Each player has a set number of lives. Ensure everyone else loses theirs.
-Point Grab: Destroying other players (or NPCs) earns you point cards. NPCs may be turned on or off. The player/team with the most points wins.
-Spell Card Duel: Players or teams take turns firing and dodging spell cards. The last player/team to survive wins.
-Spell Card Design: Players design Spell Cards from various parts before time is up, and then players/teams face off their opponents' Spell Cards by dodging them. If they survive long enough, they may add new parts. The last player/team to survive wins.
-Grab The MacGuffin: Players/teams have to hold an object (determined by the map/character arrangement) for as long as possible. If a player is killed, they will drop the MacGuffin. The player/team who holds the MacGuffin the longest wins.
-Phantasmagoria: Players/Teams fight an onslaught of smaller enemies until the other gives out or time runs out.

TEAM GAMES ONLY:
-War: Both teams work to destroy eachother's base. Both teams may work with an army of fairies, weaker youkai, or moon rabbits, depending on the map/character arrangement.
-Capture The MacGuffin: Capture the team's object of importance while defending your own. Different maps/team arrangements have different objects.
-Yukkuri Ball: Grab the Yukkuri in between the two bases and bring it back to your own. By default, the Yukkuri will stay still, but you may also set an option for the Yukkuri to have a mind of its own.
-Incident: One team attacks while another defends. The defending team may also work with a team of fairies, youkai, or moon rabbits depending on the map/character arrangement. May be played using lives or a time limit.
-Onslaught: Players fight an army of fairies, weaker youkai, or moon rabbits in ever-increasing waves.
-Cooperative: Players play the main game, either with the original characters or with any character at all.

FREE-FOR-ALL GAMES ONLY:
-Power Grab: Each player starts with an equal amount of Power Cards, and when killed, players drop all of their Power Cards. When a player reaches Max Power, respawn is disabled until that player is killed. The player who reaches Max Power first and kills all of the opponents wins. (Or, if it's a time limit, the player who kills the most people with Max Power.)
-Touhou Bulldog: Based on the game British Bulldog, all of the players start on one team except one: the bulldog, selected at random. The team hides while the lone bulldog hunts them down. When a bulldog hits a player, they are converted to the bulldog's team, and chaos ensues as other players rush to hide before becoming assimilated. When all of the players have been converted, the round resets. After time is up, the player who has survived the longest before being hit wins. May be played with a safe zone (like original British Bulldog) or without one (in the style of Zombie Tag).

Possible Campaigns: Since somebody already made a 3d rail shooter of EoSD, I'd like to start off with a suped-up version of Perfect Cherry Blossom. Classic Mode would be easy: just program the fairies, program the bosses, and we're good. For Story Mode, we'd have to up the scenario to almost UsuallyDead levels (though not quite as dark or violent). Think about it: Gensokyo is getting snowed over, people are running out of food and water, plants and animals are dying, and the only ones who can save us are a shrine maiden, a witch, and a maid, battling through an endless army of fairies and youkai.

Quote
(as for the music let's fill it to the brim with TTS-1 and Logic remixes, with a little bit of XG for fun :colonveeplusalpha:)

Actually, I got something better in mind for a game of this caliber. (And besides, those TTS-1 remakes are for experimental purposes.)

Dynamic Music: Character themes will replace the main melody line of the music if that character is winning a battle or if they appear as part of a scripted sequence. In Multiplayer, you'll know who is having a killing spree when their theme is blasted over the normal music. For example of what this might sound like, around 1:40 in this arrange of Deep Mountain, it switches from Deep Mountain to Crystallized Silver. Or, in this arrange of The Fantastic Legend of Tohno, it switches to Withered Leaf at 4:50, and then back at 5:18.

Possible Names:
-Touhou (Air Combat Sim) Project
-Shattered HoriZUN
-Skies of Gensokyo (Or Touhou: Gensokyo No Sora ~ Skies Of Gensokyo)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 08:22:33 am by Spaztique »
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Yuyuko Yakumo

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 05:57:38 am »
This sounds like a great idea, but like you said, it seems coding will be a challenge. I would love to see a game like this full and completed. I wish I could help in some way, but I don't think I really qualify for anything about this.
I know, I know. I'll get a real avatar and signature soon. -_-

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 06:10:41 am »
For proof-of-concept, I'm currently trying to render a simple level in Unity. I got half of the terrain mapped out, but coding it all is going to be a far more daunting task.

I actually have the entire idea mapped out in my head, so let's see if people like it enough to jump on board. I know some of you will all say it can't be done, but think of this like a wish list for what will be in the game.

Overall: The Touhou Air Combat Sim Project will give players the ability to move in any possible direction at any angle: forwards, backwards, left, right, up, down, and the ability to roll. There will be outdoor arenas for typical air battles and spacious indoor areas for tactical combat. Gameplay is typical Touhou (lots of bullets, challenging boss fights, and so on), but with a new dizzying twist.
OK...sounds not too bad.

Quote
The controls would probably look something like this (and it might tell you what I have in store for gameplay):
No problems with movement controls, camera, or weapon select IMO.

I would rather see charge shots use RMB (similar to weapons' secondary fire funcitons in many FPS games) and specials utilize some other button. Allowing players to fly with the mouse would be great. As for keyboard commands I hope there's several command remaps depending on ground/aerial combat. I'm used to using Shift and Ctrl for flight (thanks GTA), so....

Source games have T for talking and Y for team chatter. As for Follow and Attack those are probably better mapped elsewhere (GTA:SA uses G and H for squad control, L4D games have Z and X for context command menus).

This game also needs some way to do barrel rolls (eg. desired direction  + V). I'd also like seeing a speed control (eg. if LShift is focus mode LAlt can be fast sprinting mode or the sort) but that's on your own accord.

Having controls mapped to extra mouse buttons doesn't hurt for those of us with such mice (mine has five). Of course these should be alternate ones that are meant to complement the primary controls.

Lastly, controller support wouldn't hurt, even if it's just for those who are more familiar with that control scheme.

Quote
Classic Mode: In Classic Mode, players simply fight their way through a level alone until reaching a boss. Players get to choose between shot/spell card types, bombs are easily replenished by killing stronger enemies,  there are no special moves, and cutscenes are simply pre-battle dialogue and endings. In other words, this is just Touhou in 3d and no pre-set flight path.

Story Mode: The core of the game, players actually traverse Gensokyo with a cast of characters with a series of objectives. Instead of simply going from level to level, each campaign is a unified experience where players travel from one location to the next. Players are armed with 15 initial spell cards of varying levels (Five Easy Cards, four Normal, three Hard, two Lunatic, and one LAST WORD) that are slowly replenished UFO-style by collecting bomb pieces off of enemies. Power is measured from 0.00 to 4.00, but as players increase in level, they unlock new attacks: special moves at 1.00, Fairy-Level charged attacks at 2.00 (similar to the shots a boss fires), Witch-Level charged attacks at 3.00, and Dragon-level charged attacks at 4.00. Players have only one life, but ten hit points, and each hit point is slowly restored by fighting enemies Fairy Wars-style.

Multiplayer in one seamless world: If someone can recreate Gensokyo in Minecraft, imagine a fully rendered Gensokyo where players can travel anywhere at any time. Players can battle between the Scarlet Devil Mansion and Youkai Mountain, or between the Hakurei Shrine and the Forest of Magic. You could almost say it has no boundaries.

*MP games*

Possible Campaigns: Since somebody already made a 3d rail shooter of EoSD, I'd like to start off with a suped-up version of Perfect Cherry Blossom. Classic Mode would be easy: just program the fairies, program the bosses, and we're good. For Story Mode, we'd have to up the scenario to almost UsuallyDead levels (though not quite as dark or violent). Think about it: Gensokyo is getting snowed over, people are running out of food and water, plants and animals are dying, and the only ones who can save us are a shrine maiden, a witch, and a maid, battling through an endless army of fairies and youkai.
Classic mode sounds fun, all right. I'd like to see how Yuyuko's mega-fan and Youmu's spellcards will be presented in this perspective.

For story mode, I'd like to see characters have unique abilities that can be utilized on the field.

As for MP, this is a bit over-zealous right now. Granted, it's a great idea, but creating a full Gensokyo is probably not the best idea for now. Plus I'm not sure if Unity's map format can handle vast outdoor areas (definitely know BSP-based engines such as Source can't, the use of Unreal Engine or id Tech 4/5 is unlikely, and Sauerbraten, while optimized for large outdoor maps, is a royal pain to modify). Stick with single-player for now and then work up to the MP component.

Quote
Actually, I got something better in mind for a game of this caliber. (And besides, those TTS-1 remakes are for experimental purposes.)

Dynamic Music: Character themes will replace the main melody line of the music if that character is winning a battle or if they appear as part of a scripted sequence. In Multiplayer, you'll know who is having a killing spree when their theme is blasted over the normal music. For example of what this might sound like, around 1:40 in this arrange of Deep Mountain, it switches from Deep Mountain to Crystallized Silver. Or, in this arrange of The Fantastic Legend of Tohno, it switches to Withered Leaf at 4:50, and then back at 5:18.
Dynamic music and sound is a growing part of games nowadays (see TD trance mode, Portal 2 light tube things whose name escapes me). It's a good idea, all right.

I wouldn't mind assisting in various ways (trying for game design myself, anyways) but I'm not very familiar with the Unity engine and 3D, for one, so I think most of my contributions will come from testing, music, and maybe illustration.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 06:15:28 am by Miniscule Meiling's Picture Session »

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2011, 10:50:35 pm »
Okay, bro. I dont mean to sound cruel here (I mean this is a damn good idea and all, i just dont want to see you crash and burn.) but MMPS is right.
In no way should you be thinking of multiplayer just yet. In fact, just focus on getting the main ideas implemented (Your classic mode idea, for instance.) Take it from me, I've tried my hand at making games (okay, okay, only in those easier programs i.e. RM, Game maker, what have you.
But the best thing I can tell you is THINK SLOWLY about it. Once you get ahead of yourself, much like this. you'll just sorta fizzle out and stop.
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Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2011, 05:56:34 am »
Okay, bro. I dont mean to sound cruel here (I mean this is a damn good idea and all, i just dont want to see you crash and burn.) but MMPS is right.
In no way should you be thinking of multiplayer just yet. In fact, just focus on getting the main ideas implemented (Your classic mode idea, for instance.) Take it from me, I've tried my hand at making games (okay, okay, only in those easier programs i.e. RM, Game maker, what have you.
But the best thing I can tell you is THINK SLOWLY about it. Once you get ahead of yourself, much like this. you'll just sorta fizzle out and stop.

It's not cruel. In fact, I agree that multiplayer would be super-hard to implement at my level of experience. I'm just saying, this is what I want, not necessarily what will be. It's like a dream house: just because I ask for an olympic-sized hot tub doesn't mean I'll get it, but it's worth it to put it on the list so there's a chance I could get it. (Though, ideally, I want to eventually have multiplayer, even if it takes years.)

Right now, I'm brushing up on coding/level design with a few web tutorials. When I have free time, I'm going to buy a few books. Anybody have suggestions before I go on my book run?
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 06:47:34 am »
Anybody have suggestions before I go on my book run?
Start small.

We've seen many people brainstorming 50 posts threads but not producing 1 single screenshot of some working prototype. Thinking big won't harm, it keeps inspiration flowing. But seeing you are starting out, you need to start small then gradually work your way up.

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 06:50:47 am »
By books I'm assuming programming ones, right? Stick with those that pertain to the language and APIs you will be using. Many of these "game design" ones use pseudo-languages such as DarkBasic which make it easy to create but not very practical for general programming tips and pointers. Also you may want to get some on the programs you will use to create it (for instance, if modelling getting The Essential Blender is a great idea).

Level and engine design really depend on the demands of the game. For instance, in a flight simulator ground textures don't matter and narrow areas are anything but decent design. Similarly, in an FPS you won't expect to see dynamic weather conditions and extremely wide areas since the narrow areas promote pacing.

And if MP takes years to get right, it's not too much of a problem. Get the core done first and then spread from there once it's firmly rooted.

As for engines, I'm wondering if you're still sticking with Unity, or if another outdoor-friendly engine such as id Tech 4, Sauerbraten, or UE3 (please not the last one since it's Windows-only on PC) is being considered.

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2011, 07:42:31 am »
By books I'm assuming programming ones, right? Stick with those that pertain to the language and APIs you will be using. Many of these "game design" ones use pseudo-languages such as DarkBasic which make it easy to create but not very practical for general programming tips and pointers. Also you may want to get some on the programs you will use to create it (for instance, if modelling getting The Essential Blender is a great idea).

I know to avoid stuff like DarkBasic (though I've always been curious about it). As for Blender, I'm semi-familiar with it (and 3d modelling in-general), but I'll check out the book so I can get better at it.

Quote
As for engines, I'm wondering if you're still sticking with Unity, or if another outdoor-friendly engine such as id Tech 4, Sauerbraten, or UE3 (please not the last one since it's Windows-only on PC) is being considered.

Unity was my first choice since I've seen plenty of in-field examples (web games, promotional games, etc.). id Tech 4 looks nice, but it doesn't look like it'd support the large map sizes I need. Sauerbraten, on the other hand, actually looks good enough for me to download and try out. The promo video has everything I need: bot battles, large maps, smooth fps, danmaku-style rockets, and multiplayer support.

Start small.

I was thinking of actually doing a few smaller games before moving onto a full remake; perhaps one where Reimu simply goes on a quest to beat up Cirno for some reason.

Quote
We've seen many people brainstorming 50 posts threads but not producing 1 single screenshot of some working prototype. Thinking big won't harm, it keeps inspiration flowing. But seeing you are starting out, you need to start small then gradually work your way up.

Self-help maestro Anthony Robbins believes ideas can be grouped by opinions (easily swayed with information), beliefs (difficult to change, but possible to change), and convictions (nigh-impossible to change). Making this game exist is a conviction I have, and I will do anything I can to make it exist (or hope somebody steals it, because that person will make it exist).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 08:14:16 am by Spaztique »
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2011, 08:41:03 am »
I know to avoid stuff like DarkBasic (though I've always been curious about it). As for Blender, I'm semi-familiar with it (and 3d modelling in-general), but I'll check out the book so I can get better at it.

Unity was my first choice since I've seen plenty of in-field examples (web games, promotional games, etc.). id Tech 4 looks nice, but it doesn't look like it'd support the large map sizes I need. Sauerbraten, on the other hand, actually looks good enough for me to download and try out. The promo video has everything I need: bot battles, large maps, smooth fps, danmaku-style rockets, and multiplayer support.
id Tech 4, once GPLed, may come with MegaTexture technology (seen in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars and maybe Brink once it arrives) which allows for HUGE textures (rather than using many different ones for creating maps) and thus large maps. However we would have to wait until a bit after Rage (id Tech 5) releases to get the engine open-sourced.

Sauerbraten is a great engine, but due to its very efficiency-oriented design it is very hard to modify (not modular source at all). Plus I think all mapping has to be done within the game itself, which is great to see live results but is not as convenient IMO. But if those can be conquered we have a winning engine.

Quote
I was thinking of actually doing a few smaller games before moving onto a full remake; perhaps one where Reimu simply goes on a quest to beat up Cirno for some reason.
Good way to start small.

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 09:16:32 am »
Self-help maestro Anthony Robbins believes ideas can be grouped by opinions (easily swayed with information), beliefs (difficult to change, but possible to change), and convictions (nigh-impossible to change). Making this game exist is a conviction I have, and I will do anything I can to make it exist (or hope somebody steals it, because that person will make it exist).
I might come off as a basher, but I am a realist. That is a nice thought. Though, it doesn't changes the fact that:  If nothing is produced, nothing exists.

I am looking forward to some screenshots in the (hopefully) near future.
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Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2011, 06:39:33 am »
I might come off as a basher, but I am a realist. That is a nice thought. Though, it doesn't changes the fact that:  If nothing is produced, nothing exists.

I am looking forward to some screenshots in the (hopefully) near future.

About getting the screenshots...

Good news: I've brushed up on my C# scripting (it's much easier than I remembered) and I've got a small arena ready in Unity.
Bad News: I don't have any models.

I know they made some Touhou models for GTA and Garry's Mod, so I'll see if I can reverse engineer them into Blender/Unity. I'll shoot for getting a running demonstration done by June/July.
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2011, 06:50:31 am »
C#...not a fan of the language (more MSFT non-standardized attempts to isolate the rest). Stick with C++ or C.

I have a crapton of GTA Touhou models for you to use, almost all from Gosuke Factory and GTA SA Modding Center (both Japanese). There is a DFF/TXD/MQO import/export script for Blender on GTAForums IIRC.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 06:52:16 am by Miniscule Meiling's Picture Session »

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2011, 05:12:58 am »
Also, I'm nearly tempted to try learning Python for Blender's game engine. I'm also going to try the Unreal Engine (if I can find it) and XNA Game Studio.

Edit: Hell, I'm even going to download the free version of DarkBasic. As long as it gives me practice, I'll try anything.

I got a list of initial codes I need to write (mostly movement, command triggers, enemy ai, music-related things, and menu stuff), so now I just need the right language/engine to write it in.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 11:48:39 am by Spaztique »
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2011, 05:37:08 am »
I advise against UDK and XNA due to the lack of compatibility with non-Windows OSes. Same for Source since it seems there are no ways to compile Source binaries to Mac yet, Linux has only serverside support, and Mac only clientside.

Blender Game Engine is quite good and allows the work to be done all in one place, but I still prefer a full dedicated engine due to greater control.

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2011, 11:41:23 pm »
Good News: I found the Unreal Development Kit and it looks pretty dang easy.
Bad News: It'll jack up the players' system requirements. Also, as EP mentioned before, it's Windows-only.
Good News: It'll look NIIIICE...
Bad News: ... for those who can handle the system requirements.

I already have experience in making levels for Unreal Tournament, and Unreal Development Kit 3.0 looks very similar, so now UDK has a lead over both Unity and Blender's game function (though Blender does have an Unreal model import/export).

Also, I got roughly three hundred entries for my "rough code" list (basically functions with very crude language to be translated to whatever language I end up using later), and with all the engines I'm roughly familiar with, all that's left to do is find some models and translate my rough code before I can get a demo running.

Think I should just make my own models? Though, I gotta warn you: I'd be super-tempted to make some dark/steampunky Touhou models.

MAJOR EDIT: After accomplishing more creation in the Unreal Development Kit than I ever did in Unity, Blender, or any other game engine combined, I have decided that the Touhou (Air Combat Sim) Project will be made in the Unreal Engine. System requirements be damned, the workflow is super-quick, scripting is a breeze, level design is fast and intuitive, it has multiplayer and level streaming support, and it's gonna look so nice when it's done. I know I'll be alienating a chunk of my audience, but here's the thing: between a player-accessible engine and a programmer-friendly engine, I'd much rather sacrifice a few players knowing the game exists for a few to enjoy than struggle out of development hell while a large mass awaits a game that may never come. I know a lot of you doubt me (or worse, think I'm crazy), but I will make this game exist, and if that means having it Windows-only with high system requirements, then so be it.

To give you an idea of how quickly it took me to make a working level, it took me nearly roughly from the start of the thread to now to complete a level in Unity/Blender. In UDK, not only did it take thirty minutes to make a level, but also light it, add foliage, and actually walk around in it with a working gun for testing. Given another thirty minutes, I could've added nodes for ai and adjust the weapons to fire more bullets at slower speeds.

In fact, at this point, all I need for a working tech demo is a few Touhou models, a few days to animate them, and a few hours to code the flying mechanics (UT3 already has a "fly" command, so all I need to do is refit it with a roll option and change the movement speed). After that, we can start writing the first scenario!

I don't normally use emoticons, but this sums up my feelings at this point:  :getdown:
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 12:05:40 pm by Spaztique »
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project Idea
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2011, 01:24:49 am »
I always imagine a heavy sky battle with Touhous in my head. And very fast paced. With Murasa swinging anchors  :V

I would really like it to happen one day.

Wait...doesn't Toho Sky Arena cover this? :colonveeplusalpha:

Doesn't happen to be the same as Magical Battle Arena?
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2011, 07:02:55 am »
Ah, so Unreal 3 it is then...! Even if it was Unreal I would've preferred it as a UT2k4 (Unreal 2) mod if that were possible (via UnrealScript) since that also allows Mac and Linux users to play along if they have a UT2k4 license.

Again recommending the heavy number of MMD and GTA Touhou models as placeholders until actual models can be made. There should also be export scripts in Blender that will go to Unreal model formats.

There are Hakurei Shrine maps but again, wrong format (one in GTA, another in TF2/Source).

But in the end it's your game and your design philosophy, and I'll stick towards mine for my own project, while for this all I can do is suggest, test, and maybe one or two other things.

EDIT: Didn't notice the proposed names up there!
The current "Touhou Air Combat Sim Project" is a great WIP title.
"Shattered HoriZUN" makes me think of a certain CPU-intensive space-based FPS game that wasn't too fun.
"Skies of Gensokyo" - is this like Touhou Mother except with Skies of Arcadia instead? (BTW great game)

No ideas for names ATM, other than "Master Sparker" (too much Marisa and After Burner's on-rails system), "Miko Combat: Spring Liberation" (no Sanae here), "Panzer Maiden" (again on-rails), and "HARU DESU YO ~ ...ZE!: Defeating Springtime Hunger Pains" :colonveeplusalpha:

EDIT2: BTW the TTS-1 is technically a DXi. The VSTi version of that is the Hyper Canvas. ...or that's what Sonar X1 has to say on the matter.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 01:09:57 pm by Miniscule Meiling's Picture Session »

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2011, 09:18:33 pm »
Just for a name suggestion, how about Arias of the Wind? Fits the flying theme, the fact that there may be multiple scenarios, and airia sounds kind of like air.  :derp:

Oh, and it can also be used to think up an original scenario, too.

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2011, 03:58:22 am »
Ah, so Unreal 3 it is then...! Even if it was Unreal I would've preferred it as a UT2k4 (Unreal 2) mod if that were possible (via UnrealScript) since that also allows Mac and Linux users to play along if they have a UT2k4 license.[/url]

As much as I love UT2k4, I want to keep it not only free for anyone, but easy to install (with room for additional campaigns).

Quote
Again recommending the heavy number of MMD and GTA Touhou models as placeholders until actual models can be made. There should also be export scripts in Blender that will go to Unreal model formats.

Working on that as we speak.

Quote
There are Hakurei Shrine maps but again, wrong format (one in GTA, another in TF2/Source).

Wednesday will be my day off of work, and making the Hakurei Shrine should be super-mega simple.

Quote
But in the end it's your game and your design philosophy, and I'll stick towards mine for my own project, while for this all I can do is suggest, test, and maybe one or two other things.

Feel free to suggest stuff. I take everything into consideration, even if it doesn't seem like it. After all, even the ideas that feel like they may never be used may serve as a springboard for other ideas.

Quote
EDIT: Didn't notice the proposed names up there!
The current "Touhou Air Combat Sim Project" is a great WIP title.
"Shattered HoriZUN" makes me think of a certain CPU-intensive space-based FPS game that wasn't too fun.
"Skies of Gensokyo" - is this like Touhou Mother except with Skies of Arcadia instead? (BTW great game)

To critique my own names, I may rethink the Shattered HoriZUN title, since that's using two names of a game and person. Skies Of Gensokyo (which is not a Skies of Arcadia reference, since Touhou has enough RPG games [but no 3d ones.... hmm...]) feels the safest for a series title. Think about it: Skies Of Gensokyo: Perfect Cherry Blossom, Skies Of Gensokyo: Undefined Fantastic Object, Skies Of Gensokyo: Silent Sinner In Blue (I actually wrote a game outline after reading the comic, but I never had the chance to use it). Eastern Skies or Mystic Eastern Skies might work, too.

Quote
No ideas for names ATM, other than "Master Sparker" (too much Marisa and After Burner's on-rails system), "Miko Combat: Spring Liberation" (no Sanae here), "Panzer Maiden" (again on-rails), and "HARU DESU YO ~ ...ZE!: Defeating Springtime Hunger Pains" :colonveeplusalpha:

I was actually nearly tempted to call it "Graze Combat", but part of me wants to keep this a serious original-flavor-Touhou-style game. They'd make great map/mod names, though.

Quote
EDIT2: BTW the TTS-1 is technically a DXi. The VSTi version of that is the Hyper Canvas. ...or that's what Sonar X1 has to say on the matter.

I never realized that. I changed my sig due to that.

Just for a name suggestion, how about Arias of the Wind? Fits the flying theme, the fact that there may be multiple scenarios, and airia sounds kind of like air.  :derp:

Oh, and it can also be used to think up an original scenario, too.

Great title, but if it's going to be used for an original campaign, I'd prefer Aria of the Wind. If you write and we get this off the ground (I have a feeling we're months away), feel free to write up a scenario (or co-write it with me).
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2011, 04:34:45 am »
As much as I love UT2k4, I want to keep it not only free for anyone, but easy to install (with room for additional campaigns).
Aha. That explains it.

Quote
Feel free to suggest stuff. I take everything into consideration, even if it doesn't seem like it. After all, even the ideas that feel like they may never be used may serve as a springboard for other ideas.
OK then. ATM no suggestions to make, obviously.

Quote
To critique my own names, I may rethink the Shattered HoriZUN title, since that's using two names of a game and person. Skies Of Gensokyo (which is not a Skies of Arcadia reference, since Touhou has enough RPG games [but no 3d ones.... hmm...]) feels the safest for a series title. Think about it: Skies Of Gensokyo: Perfect Cherry Blossom, Skies Of Gensokyo: Undefined Fantastic Object, Skies Of Gensokyo: Silent Sinner In Blue (I actually wrote a game outline after reading the comic, but I never had the chance to use it). Eastern Skies or Mystic Eastern Skies might work, too.
Shattered HoriZUN would imply lots of space action and beer-bottle danmaku. :V
I'd prefer having custom titles rather than repeating PCB, IN, etc. after the "Skies of Gensokyo" part. Gives a little variety.

Quote
I was actually nearly tempted to call it "Graze Combat", but part of me wants to keep this a serious original-flavor-Touhou-style game. They'd make great map/mod names, though.
Too soon to make mods of this mod.....
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 04:58:46 am by Miniscule Meiling's Picture Session »

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2011, 05:46:30 am »
Too soon to make mods of this mod.....

By mod, I mean custom campaigns (I group those into mods for some reason).

Also, I can't seem to find a working script for importing .x or .pmd files into Blender ever since they switched to that new cockamamy plugin format, making all of the old ones obselete.

If anyone can point me in the direction of a way of converting .pmd or .x files into a UT3-related or Blender-related format (.3ds will work, too), tell me.

Edit: I've found a fix for the DirectX model by running it through an older version of blender and converting it to 3DS Max, but it only imports the mesh and no textures/bones. If you're super-nice (or eager to see a tech demo sooner than later), just upload/send me converted versions of the models. (Besides, I bet the UT3 Touhou fans will appreciate the existence of Touhou models in a game already saturated in bullets.)

Edit 2: I think I might need a dedicated modeller at this point. Although I'm getting the hang of Blender, I have no good image editing software, so making textures will be a pain. I downloaded Gimp as a backup, but I'm spoiled on Photoshop's super-easy interface, key shortcuts, and not-having-to-place-pasted-objects-on-new-layers-every-friggin-time-I-want-to-reference-something.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 02:11:27 pm by Spaztique »
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2011, 11:53:14 pm »
Edit 2: I think I might need a dedicated modeller at this point. Although I'm getting the hang of Blender, I have no good image editing software, so making textures will be a pain. I downloaded Gimp as a backup, but I'm spoiled on Photoshop's super-easy interface, key shortcuts, and not-having-to-place-pasted-objects-on-new-layers-every-friggin-time-I-want-to-reference-something.
How about Paint.NET?

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2011, 12:36:08 am »
How about Paint.NET?

I'll give it a try in a moment. Right now, I'm a tad busy on something...



Edit: Just tried Paint.net. It's layer system feels far easier than Gimp's, but it lacks many of the features that made photoshop so easy (layer styles and so on). I'm better off just saving up for it again, but I also need to save up for modelling software.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:41:51 am by Spaztique »
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2011, 12:37:49 am »
I'll give it a try in a moment. Right now, I'm a tad busy on something...

(Image removed from quote.)
NICE. May need to hotlink it instead with a small thumbnail (resolution's a bit high for forum, which asks for <=640x480 on most cases).

Are you using VSH_Hakurei_Shrine (TF2 version) of the map as a reference? It should be openable with Hammer Editor (part of Source SDK)....

Quote
Edit: Just tried Paint.net. It's layer system feels far easier than Gimp's, but it lacks many of the features that made photoshop so easy (layer styles and so on). I'm better off just saving up for it again, but I also need to save up for modelling software.
Yeah, it's not as good but I love its simplicity a lot. I would recommend Pixelmator as well but that's Mac-only. Can you qualify for a PS upgrade license (much cheaper)?
As for modelling software, I think 3DS and Maya are good but overkill, while AutoCAD and Rhino are way beyond that.
TrueSpace 7.61 (discontinued) can still be obtained from Caligari (now part of MSFT) for free. I've used 3.2 way back when it was considered pro software and found it very nice.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:43:55 am by Miniscule Meiling's Picture Session »

Spaztique

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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2011, 12:39:49 am »
NICE. May need to hotlink it instead with a small thumbnail (resolution's a bit high for forum, which asks for <=640x480 on most cases).

Are you using VSH_Hakurei_Shrine (TF2 version) of the map as a reference? It should be openable with Hammer Editor (part of Source SDK)....

Yep, but I just wanted to make it from scratch for the practice (gotta get good at mapmaking somehow).

Edit: Just got this from a fellow Garry's Mod player, Nirrti. Bonus points for him not even being a Touhou player.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:59:08 am by Spaztique »
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Re: Touhou Air Combat Sim Project *In dire need of modellers!*
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2011, 03:41:22 am »
Yep, but I just wanted to make it from scratch for the practice (gotta get good at mapmaking somehow).

Edit: Just got this from a fellow Garry's Mod player, Nirrti. Bonus points for him not even being a Touhou player.
Nice model! I'd send him thanks.

...another GMod player? Wow, I haven't gotten into GMod in a while...doing just that once I get my new system built! :D
 

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