Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F  (Read 129874 times)

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Pesco

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« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 08:59:05 am by PaWoSangchul »

tempest590

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 07:38:39 pm »
Yay new thread!

My let's play has taken off to include Meiling and Chen fights now.  :derp: Sadly, Rumia's moonlight ray always seems to lag on camera beyond anything else. I really need a better computer.

But it turned out well!

Starting out was harder than anticipated, everyone's tp was so low. I'll admit, I hacked my skill points enough to raise a few character's tp by 1 or 2 to make things slightly easier. I may do it again once I reach the agonizing floor 10-12 and have more characters. I took everyone's advice and used Yukari as one of my 2 chosen. The defense/mind buff was needed, and her par attack will work well with the rest of my team, not to mention she can wall.

I haven't decided on my last character though. Okuu or Kanako both would help me with Foes, but Okuu wouldn't be able to do much in battles for a long time other than wall fire damage and speed through turns for switching. Kanako would give me a great nuke variety, and she can also tank most things.

But if I choose either of those two, I would abandon any kind of speed buff I'd find in Aya or Sakuya, and would rely on Sanae for miniscule buffs where she should be healing. I'm really stuck. My main fear is how well I'd deal against enemies like rinnousuke, who are immune to debuffs and have defense piecing.

What would be better, Aya or a dedicated nuker?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 08:52:08 pm by tempest590 »

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2011, 08:11:57 pm »
Honestly, I don't find SPD buffing your party to be incredibly useful. I've tried taking a SPD buffer through the main game and keep dropping them from my party after awhile, but even people who have used them in a full run and then done a run without it seem to say "Well, it actually wasn't really that bad to not have SPD buffs."

It doesn't help that effective switching in and out of characters is far more important to speeding up your party then SPD buffs, and that SPD buffing actually messes that up.

If you pick someone for damage, I'd say pick someone who either is really good (Chen) or someone who is able to take a hit as well (Remilia is wonderful for this, and Kanako is passable as well). Mari with her self-buff can take a hit, and covers several elements plus debuffs, although she has high SP cost outside of her weaker attack. Keine is a good tank and can buff offensive stats pretty well which is sorta damage :V

About fighting Rinnosuke, don't worry; with Yukari's defensive buffs, you should be taking really low damage from him with anyone who has decent defensive stats. It's just that he's terrifying without any DEF/MND buffs.

Also just remembered that you have Renko with her Charge buff. It's risky, but it packs a whole lot into one spell. Overall Renko will be pretty great at certain times, with her insane PAR/Debuffing/Buffing at high SP costs. She'll be someone to throw SP+ or SP Recovery items on.

edit:also you messed up your link a little

I'm starting to consider doing a NG+ after I beat winner, and for this, I'm going to look into fixing up some of the crappier pictures in the alphes set I made. Like Eirin.  Ugh, why did I pick that picture I used over the other available one? And I already replaced Flan forever ago. Renko is ugly and Cirno is eh. I dunno if anyone even uses that set, though.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 08:16:22 pm by NeoSerela »
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Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 08:43:43 pm »
oh dear god there's actually decent alphes-style pictures on danbooru for maribel and renko now , they aren't awesome but they're better then what I had (Renko had scary eyes and unremovable white grains around her, mari had literally no alphes pic >: )

also now I remember why I didn't use the other eirin, she looks so freaking evil, but oh well it matches at least, and the other cirno one is a little off but I'll check some other sources too
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Axel Ryman

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 09:01:13 pm »
I kinda wanna play this game again. Someone give me some sort of challenge. Like, pick my characters for me. Minimum of 8 though.

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 09:10:35 pm »
Play the game with SKP invested into EVA :V

tempest590

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 09:13:15 pm »
Thanks for the advice, and fixed the link. I think I'll use Kanako in that case. That way, my defensive buffs will actually mean something since I have so many tanks. and now you have me hunting character portraits all over again.

Axel Ryman

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 09:14:26 pm »
Play the game with SKP invested into EVA :V

You're crazy  :V Although I want to test something.......*Goes to test*

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 09:22:25 pm »
I kinda wanna play this game again. Someone give me some sort of challenge. Like, pick my characters for me. Minimum of 8 though.
sure why not

maribel, eirin, komachi, rumia, keine, meiling, minoriko, cirno, alice, sakuya, yuuka, mokou

Might be a little low on power for random battles. Perhaps switch any of the last three with Orin, Kanako. If it's too hard then switch someone for Reimu because Reimu makes any party way better. Or for Yukari since she can be Reimu without a hax party fullheal.

Also agreeing with whoever said so in last thread that Eirin is pretty crappy. Her attack power is very lackluster with a MAG build, and while a defensive build might make her tanky, her heal being single-target for 50% HP is horrible. Other singletarget healers like Minoriko or Sanae or even REIMU should be nearly fullhealing, and not-Sanae is pretty high enough MND to be tanky.

Also, about what PescoRumia said, I've been wondering if maybe I should play 1.13 of thLaby. In other words, non-plus-disk version where EVA works.

Been tuning up a few pictures in my set, about to check to see if I can get a better Cirno and then throw in Renko/Mari pictures. Then I'll reupload for anyone who cares.

I should probably be playing mafia, though. Right after I start uploading, I suppose.

edit:god why didn't I just use this cirno the first time
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 09:42:49 pm by NeoSerela »
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Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 09:31:14 pm »
Alice with a pure MAG build rips floor trash. And she can handle all enemy types because non-elemental and hits DEF/MND as you need. She does run out of SP pretty quickly early on though.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 09:42:48 pm »
I kinda wanna play this game again. Someone give me some sort of challenge. Like, pick my characters for me. Minimum of 8 though.

Chen, Maribel, Aya, Sakuya, Remilia, Tenshi, Minoriko, Sanae, Reisen, Iku, Komachi, Eirin.

Eirin is for my sadistic pleasure. 
The main theme is self buffing.  Characters with targetable buffs (AKA, Potatoes, Good Girl, Troll, Maid and Fishy) can only use them on themselves.  Komachi is replacable if you don't plan on taking on Shiki.  Hopefully you can compensate for no group healing with multiple healers. 

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 09:44:18 pm »
No Suika, mister NEETori? :3c

I really should replace my picture for her too, actually, but :lazy:. Doing Renko right now and then I'm done.
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 09:45:55 pm »
D'oh.  Suika would make for a nuke, which this team lacks outside of Komachi.
Swap Iku for Suika.  They'd fill the same purpose anyways, and Suika hits way harder.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 10:09:54 pm »
k http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3GXKKIQ0

Renko and Mari aren't the most awesome pictures ever but they'll match everyone else and not look shitty, at least.

Suika I probably should have replaced, but didn't feel like it. *doh* Wriggle still has some non-major problems, and several characters could probably look a little sharper then they are (Iku and Meiling especially), but that's insignificant. A few (Nitori, Chen, Orin, Ran, Sanae others I forgot) had slightly sharper images replaced in, but they're basically the same. Minoriko still has an oddish picture combo with a Stand that doesn't quite match and an LFace from a completely different picture that matches everyone else.

Cirno and Eirin were completely replaced, in addition to Renko/Mari. Depending on how old the last one I uploaded was, this might be a new Flandre as well.

edit:nevermind renko/mari still look kinda bad but OH WELL there's so little art of them that remotely fits in at all
also I need to give orin a bigger head in her LFace, maybe Renko/Mari too, but :effort:
And the newly added sharper images are so much sharper that they make the other images look worse. >:

edit again:okay and cirno needs a bigger head (her and orin will be fine with bigger heads) and you know what the default game images for maribel/renko are probably best, seriously
There's a second set for Cirno in there that you might like better, and keep the Orin LFace you already have if you're overwriting an old alphes set.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 10:18:32 pm by NeoSerela »
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Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 10:15:41 pm »
It's kinda tempting to want to play the game with evasion since it's there and might make it more "advanced". But the fact is I rekon it'd only be frusterating and luck-dependant.

I mean, Particularly for bosses with their "I just casted focus and when I move you LOSE" phases, "miss, miss".. yeah.. pretty stupid IMO.
If it wasn't for that one thing, I think evasion might work. But even still, since there is no accuracy stat or whatever, the whole evasion thing just sounds kinda borked from the beginning I think.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2011, 10:19:10 pm »
There's accuracy modifiers in character attacks.  Obviously since evasion is borked, it doesn't really matter.

Chen would seem ultra broken if EVA were to work.  EVA build + massive dumping of SKP into EVA + her EVA self-buff.  Nothing could touch her and she can switchwhore like no other.  And peck out damage occasionally.

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2011, 11:03:18 pm »
There's accuracy modifiers in character attacks.  Obviously since evasion is borked, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah I know, but they are attached to the attack, they don't grow with leveling, and as it is, players generally have to use a very specific sequence of power attacks and power characters to survive desperation phases at reasonable levels. Being forced to use less than ideal attacks (if they were so) for their accuracy during such periods would just suck. I know Master spark is supposed to have great accuracy, but I dunno about all the power nukes... If they ALL were very accurate, then the already less useful end-game nukes will only become more useless!

Basically, desperation phases, and accuracy, do not mix well IMO.

Edit: Actually, I had a similar discussion on Kong a few months back. I think hit/miss accuracy in general is actually a very stupid and flawed system for strategy games and rpgs. I think the best form of accuracy and evasion was the one used in FF2/4. Where each character had multiple attacks, (like Cecil has 6 as soon as he's a paladin at level 1 IIRC). You don't see him attacking 6 times, but it basically just rolls hit/miss for each attack 6 times hidden behind the scenes, then multiplies the damage according to how many hit. That's why you rarely saw miss in the game later on (except with casters who had few attacks) , but had damage fluctuating a LOT. This system made accuracy and evasion meaningful, but also made them less than either absolutely needed desperately (cuz you always miss, or frusteratingly occasionally miss), or don't need it at all (once you hit, you don't need more right?).

A game like labyrinth of Touhou wouldn't make as much sense, why is Marisa shooting 16 master sparks? But I rekon they could just modify it so it represents stuff like grazing hit, glancing hit, nick, hit, critical hit, etc.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 11:08:43 pm by Ghaleon »

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2011, 11:18:51 pm »
I think one of the most annoying mechanics for me, though, is probably Shiki's boss fight.  She can decide just to say "Fuck you I win" whenever she wants, which makes the battle heavily luck based.  Also, I wish composite attacks were more consistent, but having the potential to deal massive damage works well too.

Oh, sank 2 million skill points into Meiling's defenses.  80k/52k/30k defenses, which means she's the most physically durable character I have.
Tenshi, Reimu and Yukari are next for huge point sinks.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2011, 11:55:40 pm »
I kinda wanna play this game again. Someone give me some sort of challenge. Like, pick my characters for me. Minimum of 8 though.

Since you did a PCB team, do a MoF Team next. If I remember correctly, that gives you exactly 8 characters to work with. (The tankiest character you get is Kanako, though -good luck tanking attacks).

tempest590

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2011, 12:04:33 am »
Actually he has 2 tanks. Kanako and Minoriko both can wall magic. Aya can haste up the healing and nuking process of everyone. Sanae as a secondary healer / buffer / floor cleaner. Suwako as a stati inducer and earth nuke. Nitori for non elemental. Reimu can wall, heal, and Marisa would be a floor cleaner / mys nuke.

It could work.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2011, 12:06:31 am »
Strong physical attacks would hurt everyone way too much.
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tempest590

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2011, 12:58:55 am »
Strong physical attacks would hurt everyone way too much.

touche. Then again, that's only 8 characters. You could always bring in other tanks that might fit the theme, like Yuugi, or maybe even Tenshi or Rinnousuke if you're more daring.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2011, 01:26:22 am »
Subterranean Animism.  Partners + Reimu and Marisa are 8, add on Yuugi, Orin and Okuu for 11, and Sanae for 12. 

Yuugi as a physical tank with offensive presence, Reimu as a mind tank and healer, and Yukari as a balanced tank.  You get several nukers, a couple stay-in attackers, and have Reimu and Sanae for support.

Oh speaking of Sanae, I found her horribly outclassed by Minoriko unless I just use her to buff.  A tanky build can take advantage of Miracle Fruit by buffing herself first, then, spam it on anyone who would appreciate the boost (a stay-in attacker like Alice, for example), and Miracle Fruit can aid in her otherwise weak heals.
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2011, 04:14:15 am »
Also, about what PescoRumia said, I've been wondering if maybe I should play 1.13 of thLaby. In other words, non-plus-disk version where EVA works.

That megaupload link isn't working for me. Also Garlyle was playing v1.13 a while ago but I don't know how far he got.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2011, 12:00:48 am »
Since you did a PCB team, do a MoF Team next. If I remember correctly, that gives you exactly 8 characters to work with. (The tankiest character you get is Kanako, though -good luck tanking attacks).

I never actually finished it  :V  Bunch of reasons to explain. I got to floor 15 and stopped I want to play this game again, just not continue that file. I'll save it in case I finish.

Let me comment on the suggested teams.

maribel, eirin, komachi, rumia, keine, meiling, minoriko, cirno, alice, sakuya, yuuka, mokou

Interesting team. Has some nice characters to clear trash with but only enough for about one battle due to SP cost, but manageable since I can just run from them to fight a boss if necessary. Does have some good boss killing potential though, and a few tankers. Might try this.

Chen, Maribel, Aya, Sakuya, Remilia, Tenshi, Minoriko, Sanae, Reisen, Iku, Komachi, Eirin.
Also like this one a bit, but not too much. Might swap Iku for Suika if I decide on this one.

do a MoF Team

Nitori and Marisa will just be the nukers, Reimu as DEF/MND buffer/Healer, Aya smacks and SPD buffs, Sanae buffs and attacks, Kanako will tank, Suwako will just Paralyze whoever, and what's her name will heal and be a MND tank.Yeah I already thought that team out, and since Nitori has Megawatt Linear Gun...I'm saying no :V


Subterranean Animism.  Partners + Reimu and Marisa are 8, add on Yuugi, Orin and Okuu for 11, and Sanae for 12. 
Also thought on this one. I don't wanna do Reimu and Marisa + 6 partners cause then I have so many nukers and trash clearers(Marisa, Alice, Nitori, Patchouli, Okuu, and Yuugi). Maybe do Reimu or Marisa with their 3 partners + the SA characters and Sanae. If I choose SA, I'll probably do Reimu w/ Yukari, Suika, and Aya + SA and Sanae.


So far the SA one I mentioned, Team A, and Team B are decent contenders. Team A(NeoSerela's suggestion) might get picked, Team B(NEETori's) has a good chance, and SA is a bit low but not out. I'll decide on saturday, so suggest more if you got some other ideas. :D

Edit: I might add in Renko to Team A. I never used her but I want to just to try her out.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2011, 08:21:05 am »
So I'm at around Reimu 320ish, and I'm thinking of taking on the Cave Bosses v2.  I'm pretty sure with Renko and Reisen's help, I can take Bloody Papa, but what about the others?

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2011, 11:25:38 am »
You can't do BoC, I'm pretty sure of that. Honestly, I didn't bother stopping grinding until like lv400~, so I'm not entirely sure :V

Master Wings EVD or whatever it was is the easiest (other then fully debuffed Bloody Papa), though, I think.
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tempest590

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2011, 02:42:33 pm »
Ugh, Bloody Papa was a nightmare for my team. Oh yeah, and I finally managed to find a better codec for my runthrough videos, it doesn't lag anymore. (although it is slower than usual). So, yay! Also, upcoming fight with Youmu.

My team so far is Rumia, Meiling, Patchy, Yukari, Yuuka, Iku, and Kanako. I'm around lvl 10. Think I can take her? Kanako can only get one hit off at a time, and Yukari's only there for shielding. Yuuka can get a few flower shots off. rumia and Patchy are my main nukes with Iku being a steady damage mage. Meiing as an obvious wall / healer.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2011, 04:42:09 pm »
If I'm not mistaken, then Youmu and Myon don't resist debuffs, so Iku's going to really crank up whatever physical damage you've got.  Of course, Kanako's the only person you have that can take advantage of that so... :\

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2011, 04:53:45 pm »
Debuffs, poison and DTH work on Youmu/Myon. Poison is really underated.
 

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