I don't get the bawww censorship thing

[Mr. Sacchi]

I think then I'm the only one who's completely fine with sex and weirded out by gory violence. I dunno, I guess it's just my Good Karma Sense acting up or sumthing  :wat:

Rape is the complete exception to this though. It's more an act of violence and complete violation than love and purity and life and all of that, and that disgusts me... Specially if the raped party actually loved the rapist up until that point.

Oh my god I'm giving myself nightmares :ohdear:

[Suikama]

Maybe it's just because I'm from North America :V

[HakureiSM]

I will fully admit that I am more comfortable with violence in media/entertaiment than sex. Maybe it's because I've been socially conditioned that way after being born into such a society, but as unreasonable as is it, the discrepancy exists. :ohdear:

Well clearly the discrepancy exists, but should it, and should it affect the way censorship works, at any rate?

[Wisp]

Me, I feel as if I'm not supposed to see someone's private body parts. A person may want me to see their privates, but I don't. It's that really bad feeling (probably guilt?) I get when I break some sort of rule. That's just me, though. I'm not trying to make an argument here. Others may think nudity is offensive, disgusting, etc.

What are your thoughts?

[Tengukami]

What are your thoughts?

That America is still in the Colonial Period when it comes to the human body. I'd far sooner take nudity over violence, for the simple reason of what's being depicted. I don't get being offended by nudity but being *shrug* about violence.

[Ghaleon]

Christ... I don't know why people think I'm a raging hipocrite or idiot on the net all the time.
I said this for a reason:

A LOT of people are like me, and while I don't think games should be made to cater to that admitably screwy aspect of myself and others

Basically, I can respect, and even encouraging censoring of silly things such as what I'm discussing not for myself, or people like me specifically, but because I don't want the game's potential sales to suffer because it's not catering to the local audience, who most likely, are not as self-aware about their own odd behavior traits like myself.

[Kinzo the Astro Curious]

Speaking of censorship, whats going on with youtubes "Safe comments" thing?

I wonder how it works and chooses to block ALL comments, and if the same thing is done for video names or not...

[orinrin]

Speaking of censorship, whats going on with youtubes "Safe comments" thing?

I wonder how it works and chooses to block ALL comments, and if the same thing is done for video names or not...

IIRC Youtube set up a safety mode function about a year ago and I guess it started to derp up recently.  Turning Safety mode off does nothing for me.

[HakureiSM]

Christ... I don't know why people think I'm a raging hipocrite or idiot on the net all the time.
I said this for a reason:
Basically, I can respect, and even encouraging censoring of silly things such as what I'm discussing not for myself, or people like me specifically, but because I don't want the game's potential sales to suffer because it's not catering to the local audience, who most likely, are not as self-aware about their own odd behavior traits like myself.

... yeah, but no, I don't think censorship should be regulated by the perspective of selling a game or not. I mean, that's just wrong.
It's putting aside logic and reasoning in favour of settling with a given mentality just for the money.

[N-Forza]

If I recall correctly, La Pucelle: Tactics was censored when it was released in North America; they removed all the crosses/religious context or something.  That was silly.

Not really. They just tried to make it seem less like the main religion was Christianity.

Of course, they still left Croix's name untouched but maybe they didn't think the average Jeau would get it.

[Huckebein]

I mostly encounter violence in video games, but that's probably because the FPS genre appeals to me the most.  I played Doom in kindergarten (woooo) so I'd say that desensitized me to violence, at least in video game form.  And I found it odd, but I was a bit taken aback when I was playing Call of Duty: Black Ops and was sorta mortified that I could shoot off a person's arm.  For whatever reason, that didn't bother me in Left 4 Dead 2, but I think that's because I view zombies as monsters and not humans.

In terms of censorship I find it ridiculous when games are censored to a point where, despite there stil being violence, it's depicted as having almost no result other than a body falling down and going *poof*.  I agree with the sentiment that censoring violence in such a way makes it seem almost harmless, and takes away from what's really happening, even if it is virtual.  I realize this doesn't discuss censoring sexual themes, but frankly I don't encounter that a whole lot in video games.  That may change if Duke Nukem Forever comes out.  BV

[Azure Lazuline]

Regarding the sub-topic: I don't understand why seeing a natural part of the body is more jarring than seeing someone's head blown up. There's a big difference between nudity and sex though, so while seeing the Statue of David isn't weird at all for me, if there were uncensored sex scenes in a game, it would be kind of awkward just because I wouldn't expect something like that in media (even though I think it's more "normal" than violence by far, I'd just be kind of shocked that it got through the censors). And I still don't understand why it's considered so bad and secret and unholy, but meh, that's another topic altogether, and it's not something I'd really want to discuss here.

For the main topic, it really depends on what's censored. Making Ganon's blood green, bleeping out some swear words, or cutting out a small scene or two really doesn't change anything. Even rather big changes (like the European version of No More Heroes getting the massive fountains of enemy blood replaced by gold coins instead) don't bother me much, since in that case, I think the coins fit the strangeness of the game rather well. It's really a case-by-case basis... I think I'm more concerned about when they cut actual gameplay content more than censoring scenes, but those aren't mutually exclusive.

And in a complete subversion, I find that swearing is much more funny when it's censored than when it's not. Conker's Bad Fur Day comes to mind here.

[helvetica]

To all of you saying you don't like nudity/etc, where do you get the right to dictate what others can enjoy?  Just because YOU don't find it comfortable does not give you the right to censor it for everyone else.  Noone's forcing you to purchase the game or media item and your taxes aren't supporting them.

If you don't like x or y, then just stay away from it.  I don't like porn but I'm not demanding it get pulled from shelves.  You do not have the right to dictate to others what they can or can't enjoy, no matter how "morally repugnant" you may find it.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I'd like to think the reason people complain about censorship isn't about the censorship per se, but because it's a form of change and people tend to not like that.

[MayKissingDoveWyks]

I would say that humans can be extreme on things, especially in this case of censorship.
The idea of it doesn't bother me, but it can get annoying. Usually, I know what's being censored to some degree, or I can infer it

But taking it to extremes from EITHER side of the spectrum can be irritating at most. Occasionally, it's easy to ignore the complaining; others it's more difficult with the amount of solidity in the stance. Both ends should be held accountable for these problems, just for the fact they blame each other for BEING the problem.

A little censorship shouldn't matter unless it ruins the quality of the product completely, but nor would I say that it would prevent you from buying it or not.

Meh...

[Mocking Morning]

To all of you saying you don't like nudity/etc, where do you get the right to dictate what others can enjoy?  Just because YOU don't find it comfortable does not give you the right to censor it for everyone else.  Noone's forcing you to purchase the game or media item and your taxes aren't supporting them.

Oddly enough, the government does.

Remember this incident and the backlash from it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy#Aftermath_and_effects

I know its not a game, but remember how some states we're trying to straight up ban M rated video games from stores?

[MayKissingDoveWyks]

Also, I see no damn point in bleeping out words if 9 year olds know how to cuss profane language.

Remember this incident and the backlash from it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy#Aftermath_and_effects

I know its not a game, but remember how some states we're trying to straight up ban M rated video games from stores?

The problem is, a lot of people are ninnies about this crap.

The majority are inbound in their ideas of censorship, but the other problem is, it become inherent as time goes on. 200 years and the higher-ups still act like it. We seriously have lost all values in this nation, but censorship and people's "protection" is something that people can still grasp.

[Tengukami]

Oddly enough, the government does.

Remember this incident and the backlash from it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy#Aftermath_and_effects

I know its not a game, but remember how some states we're trying to straight up ban M rated video games from stores?

This is exactly what I mean. Saying that exposing a nipple to a child is offensive is like saying the same about exposing a banana to a monkey.

But beyond this, as a parent, I'm more comfortable with my child seeing images of the human body in its natural state, or being treated with kindness, than I am with her being shown the human body being injured, tortured or killed. I don't get parents who are the exact opposite. I mean, I'm aware there are parents who don't want their kids playing "violent video games", but they're not exactly shouting down network television when it comes to violence with the same voracity that they devote to Janet Jackson's nipple.

[HakureiSM]

I'd like to think the reason people complain about censorship isn't about the censorship per se, but because it's a form of change and people tend to not like that.

Uh, no, wtf, how is censorship any change, etc.

You do not have the right to dictate to others what they can or can't enjoy, no matter how "morally repugnant" you may find it.

QFT. There's rating boards and there's censorship. The former take media content, analyze it, and set up a rating of what *they* believe is appropriate or not for a given age within said content, and then they give the consumer the choice of acquiring that content or not according to his/her own views, agreeing or not with the rating boards. The former latter is straight out interfering with content based on a specific morality, and telling on the lives of other people who might have different views and a different set of morals, which is a completely subjective and individual thing.

Having been born just a few years after the end of a very long military dictatorship in my country, which involved a lot of censorship, and having been raised on the mentality that one is free to choose whatever morals and behaviours one wants to take, as long as it doesn't interfere with the morals and behaviours of others, I feel quite strongly about censorship.

e: fixed the stupidest mistake

[Ghaleon]

To all of you saying you don't like nudity/etc, where do you get the right to dictate what others can enjoy?  Just because YOU don't find it comfortable does not give you the right to censor it for everyone else.  Noone's forcing you to purchase the game or media item and your taxes aren't supporting them.

If you don't like x or y, then just stay away from it.  I don't like porn but I'm not demanding it get pulled from shelves.  You do not have the right to dictate to others what they can or can't enjoy, no matter how "morally repugnant" you may find it.

Hope I'm not an one of your ideal targets for this comment... To be frank, I'm not sure who is. I don't see a SINGLE person who says they don't like nudity say that others shouldn't get it in their entertainment, so what's the point of this comment?

Anyway I suspect that my opinion isn't made clear again. I do NOT think nudity or whatever should be cut from a game because I don't like it, or because I think it's "sick" (I don't think it's sick), I simply don't want the possible sales of a game to go down because its level of nudity (or other material that may be deemed "censor worthy") is considered too high for the local norm. Basically, I want localizers and game developers to be successful, provided the game as a whole doesn't get butchered so much that it truly is not the same game. If localization teams think that they will get more potential sales by censoring one or two nudity details or whatever, THAT is where I like to say I support such a decision, NOT because I think nudity is "wrong", or because I don't want others to enjoy it, I just don't like hard working game industry workers not reap as much fruits of their labor as they potentially can.

Now you may argue that censoring doesn't actually impact sales, I wont argue that, I honestly have no clue. But I'm in no position to claim that I know better than any localization staff who actually DOES this stuff, so I'll just shrug my shoulders and trust that they tried their best.

[helvetica]

Oddly enough, the government does.

Remember this incident and the backlash from it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII_halftime_show_controversy#Aftermath_and_effects

I know its not a game, but remember how some states we're trying to straight up ban M rated video games from stores?

Different situation.  The Super Bowl is the most watched event in the US, and is reasonably assumed to be family friendly.  The outcry is justified IMHO, a reasonable person isn't going to expect boobs shown in a football game.  I personally think it was silly to get worked up over such a thing but they have a legitimate reason to be upset.

Uh, no, wtf, how is censorship any change, etc.
QFT. There's rating boards and there's censorship. The former take media content, analyze it, and set up a rating of what *they* believe is appropriate or not for a given age within said content, and then they give the consumer the choice of acquiring that content or not according to his/her own views, agreeing or not with the rating boards. The former is straight out interfering with content based on a specific morality, and telling on the lives of other people who might have different views and a different set of morals, which is a completely subjective and individual thing.

Exactly.  Ratings boards are so people can make informed decisions on the content contained.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with a ratings board persay.  And has been shown countless times, an M/R rating is not a death sentence at all, at least in America.  There should definitely be ratings boards and things should get rated if they're intended for retail release. 

The issue stems from countries with mandatory ratings boards that will intentionally refuse classification of content as a means to censor content.  This is why I am very glad the ESRB and the MPAA ratings boards are NOT government-controlled.

Hope I'm not an one of your ideal targets for this comment... To be frank, I'm not sure who is. I don't see a SINGLE person who says they don't like nudity say that others shouldn't get it in their entertainment, so what's the point of this comment?

Several people in this thread have said they wish for nudity to be censored in games.  Sorry if you don't like it you don't have to buy it.  If you don't like that stuff, just don't purchase it.  Don't dictate morality for people who may not have a problem with it or may actually enjoy it.

Anyway I suspect that my opinion isn't made clear again. I do NOT think nudity or whatever should be cut from a game because I don't like it, or because I think it's "sick" (I don't think it's sick), I simply don't want the possible sales of a game to go down because its level of nudity (or other material that may be deemed "censor worthy") is considered too high for the local norm. Basically, I want localizers and game developers to be successful, provided the game as a whole doesn't get butchered so much that it truly is not the same game. If localization teams think that they will get more potential sales by censoring one or two nudity details or whatever, THAT is where I like to say I support such a decision, NOT because I think nudity is "wrong", or because I don't want others to enjoy it, I just don't like hard working game industry workers not reap as much fruits of their labor as they potentially can.

That's different, and that's wholly the developer's decision to do so, as it should be.  If a developer chooses to tone their stuff down to take account the local market then that's their choice, they're not being forced to do so by a government board.  That's fine, not everyone is going to like x or y so if they choose to tone it down to get more sales then they've consciously made that decision.  We can compare it to the VN/dating game scene in Japan.  There's a significant number of games with sex scenes ADDED not because the developers want it persay, but because that's what the target market wants.

The developer should get to decide how to tailor their product to their target audience and market.  If they feel removing x or changing y will improve sales to their target market without drastically affecting their product, then that's fine.  It's their creation.  My objection is to outside parties such as government censors controlling what can and can't be done.

[HakureiSM]

On the example of Japan we even have the contradictory situation where producers and making more and more erotic stuff to appeal to the market, while at the same time the government enforces more and more censorship to counter it.

And 10 seconds on the internet are enough to show it ain't worth a damn

[Suikama]

:getdown: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/3/23/ :getdown:

[HakureiSM]

Okay thread over :getdown:

[MayKissingDoveWyks]

It's degraded into a fight between who has the better opinion, I assume at this point.

Several people in this thread have said they wish for nudity to be censored in games.  Sorry if you don't like it you don't have to buy it.  If you don't like that stuff, just don't purchase it.  Don't dictate morality for people who may not have a problem with it or may actually enjoy it.

Excuse me, excuse me!
I read through the whole thread and looked out for what those "people" said.

I think you did not draw the lines between: Opinions, Demands, and What People Actually Typed.
Just saying.

[orinrin]

Excuse me, excuse me!
I read through the whole thread and looked out for what those "people" said.

I think you did not draw the lines between: Opinions, Demands, and What People Actually Typed.
Just saying.

The point still stands regardless of what was being said.  Anyways, censorship in games is dumb.

[Nat Tea]

that akiha h-scene is important to the plot and you know it

[Chronojet ⚙ Dragon]

Baw censorship? I remember when they was all over that.

[Mayson]

AT3 was NOT censored, but I just saw older posts about people crying about how they wouldn't buy it if it was, without even knowing what, if anything, would have been.

I can respect people complaining about something important being censored, even if it's a matter of opinion, but it seems like people have no middle ground with it. It's like if the slightest most simple unimportant thing is censored, they act like the product is 100% ruined and unfit for purchase. Or they'll use it as an excuse to pirate it. "DURR I was going to buy the game but I decided to pirate it instead because Sgt. Matthews says "get lost" instead of "fuck off" in chapter 2!".

Actually, I just thought of a real example, also fairly recently, I've seen a few people claim they WERE going to buy Hyperdimension Neptunia, but decided not to because they changed the box art so Neptune's hand is positioned in front of her cleavage. Totally a facepalm reason IMO, if anything, I LIKE the change since the game as a whole really isn't the fan-service porn fest that people make it out to be. After the first 10 minutes, the game really is pretty normal in that department. But even if I didn't like it, I certainly wouldn't claim to not buy the game solely for that reason alone.

It's because content you paid for is not handed out to you, unless it's really just a change of the cover.

Living in Germany, I have experienced a lot of cuts that had an actualy influence on the gaming experience. Cutscenes not getting shown, levels being highly edited, possible actions taken out because they are "immoral", etc. You get the grasp.
That experience is what makes me kinda hostile towards censorship. The kind of censorship we receive here gets even so far to outright remove entire game modes just because they are immoral (Resident Evil 4: Merecenary mode was cut, Resident Evil 5: Online Multiplayer mode was cut). :/

[Ghaleon]

It's because content you paid for is not handed out to you, unless it's really just a change of the cover.

Living in Germany, I have experienced a lot of cuts that had an actualy influence on the gaming experience. Cutscenes not getting shown, levels being highly edited, possible actions taken out because they are "immoral", etc. You get the grasp.
That experience is what makes me kinda hostile towards censorship. The kind of censorship we receive here gets even so far to outright remove entire game modes just because they are immoral (Resident Evil 4: Merecenary mode was cut, Resident Evil 5: Online Multiplayer mode was cut). :/

Yeah, that is an extreme case of censorship, I don't think anybody has a problem with having a problem with that. I can even understand if the game is totally normal in every way, except everyone has green blood for some reason (I recall hearing about that for games like carmageddon for example).

As for hyperdimension neptunia, it was just the cover, that's it. You can still see the original cover in the game under the gallery section.