3DS reviews and impressions

[helvetica]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/08/nintendo-3ds-review-japanese/
3 and a half hours with wifi OFF?  GG Nintendo.  Build quality is a good improvement over the DSLite/DSi, but the battery life is absolutely appalling.  I could live with a 3-4 hour battery life if they at least gave an option for USB charging but they won't even do that.  Yes let's ignore the almost ubiquitous number of USB chargers almost everywhere and make us carry yet ANOTHER charging cable.

Rest of the hardware is meh, still resistive screen, still shitty cameras, etc.  I'm waiting for the 3DSLite at any rate.  That battery life is anemic given how weak the hardware is compared to what it's going to end up competing against.  For the casual why pick up a 3DS vs say an iPod Touch unless you're really that married to the Nintendo name?

The hardcore, I can see myself eventually getting one because face it, Nintendo has amazing first party support.  I just have no need to get one NOW, especially given how weak the current hardware is.

[Ghaleon]

I rarely play on a portable for longer than 30 minutes at a time, and certainly not more than 2 hours. 3.5 is plenty for me, and I for most people without them realizing it. Though I'm not going to get one anytime soon either.
Honestly, what matters more to me regarding battery life is its long term survival. I mean many rechargeables have a maximum life of X hours, but after a month or so, suddenly it becomes more like 0.75X hours, then after a year, it's like 0.4X.. What I want is for the maximum battery life to NOT deteriorate over time. I've tried draining batteries completely before charging em, charging them all the time when not in use. Never having them plugged in when fully charged, all that. It still doesn't matter. Fact all rechargeable items have a nasty habit of NOT having the battery life they claim after less-than  major usage. (back up a decade or so, and there were rechargeable batteries named "pure energy", which hilariously went from reasonable battery life to like... half hour after only like 4 effing charges, they were bull).

I have no idea how the 3DS fares in this category, and wont pretend to know, but I wish people would talk about THAT more than theoretical lab-tested 1-time use situations...

[Solais]

3 and half a hour is what my DSLite can handle at the moment, so I don't know why it is a big deal. Also what is an USB Charger? Never heard of them before.

Aside from that, what I'm curious about are the games, because right now, these starters look quite weak, imo.

[Paper Conan]

Aside from that, what I'm curious about are the games, because right now, these starters look quite weak, imo.

They are. Since I am married to Nintendo, I'm going to have to buy this.
The upcoming games are going to be awesome, though!
(PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO PAPER MARIO)
Now, all I need is 300$+ by the end of the month...

[helvetica]

I rarely play on a portable for longer than 30 minutes at a time, and certainly not more than 2 hours. 3.5 is plenty for me, and I for most people without them realizing it. Though I'm not going to get one anytime soon either.
Honestly, what matters more to me regarding battery life is its long term survival. I mean many rechargeables have a maximum life of X hours, but after a month or so, suddenly it becomes more like 0.75X hours, then after a year, it's like 0.4X.. What I want is for the maximum battery life to NOT deteriorate over time. I've tried draining batteries completely before charging em, charging them all the time when not in use. Never having them plugged in when fully charged, all that. It still doesn't matter. Fact all rechargeable items have a nasty habit of NOT having the battery life they claim after less-than  major usage. (back up a decade or so, and there were rechargeable batteries named "pure energy", which hilariously went from reasonable battery life to like... half hour after only like 4 effing charges, they were bull).

I have no idea how the 3DS fares in this category, and wont pretend to know, but I wish people would talk about THAT more than theoretical lab-tested 1-time use situations...

The hardware hasn't been out long enough to do a "long term battery" study, but for the most part Li-Ion batteries get about 6-12 months before dropping to half capacity.  Charging them less often and not tricklecharging greatly increases their life, as well as making sure the batteries don't overheat.

3 and half a hour is what my DSLite can handle at the moment, so I don't know why it is a big deal. Also what is an USB Charger? Never heard of them before.

Uhh, it just means that you can plug into any standard USB port or outlet and charge off of it.  Practically every cellphone and MP3 player made in the past 4-5 years can charge off of USB now.  Even the PSP can.  The fact the 3DS keeps the proprietary nonsense instead of standardizing on mini/microUSB means you can't use any standard cable and plug into your laptop or whatever to charge.  Most car accessories just expose a USB port and so do most airplanes/airports as well, so it makes absolutely no sense why they didn't just use a standard port instead of keeping the same stupid plug from the DSi.  It's one more charger I have to lug around (and definitely given the battery life).

As for battery life, a stock DSLite gets close to 15 hours on a new battery.  Nintendo handhelds are mostly known for their amazing stamina and battery life while sacrificing raw speed and performance.  That's really what won Nintendo the handheld war, as there's always been competitors with far superior features or graphics to Nintendo's offerings.  Now the 3DS has neither, it's both slower than the NGP, and will likely get shorter battery life or about equivalent as well.

Aside from that, what I'm curious about are the games, because right now, these starters look quite weak, imo.

So far there's only vague rumors on what's in the pipe, no solid release dates.   Probably won't get any until E3.

[orinrin]

DS has 3rd-party USB chargers IIRC.  I'm guessing the 3DS will have the same.


I haven't touched handhelds in a while and I don't think the 3DS is going to change my mind at this point either.

[Stuffman]

The battery life thing really bothers me, what's the point of the system being portable if you can't bring it along on a road trip or something?

The only way I'm buying this thing is if another Advance Wars comes out for it D:

[Solais]

Uhh, it just means that you can plug into any standard USB port or outlet and charge off of it.  Practically every cellphone and MP3 player made in the past 4-5 years can charge off of USB now.  Even the PSP can.  The fact the 3DS keeps the proprietary nonsense instead of standardizing on mini/microUSB means you can't use any standard cable and plug into your laptop or whatever to charge.  Most car accessories just expose a USB port and so do most airplanes/airports as well, so it makes absolutely no sense why they didn't just use a standard port instead of keeping the same stupid plug from the DSi.  It's one more charger I have to lug around (and definitely given the battery life).

Hmm, yeah I noticed that when I used the USB mode of my PSP and it said "USB Charging is not possible." But I never seen places where USB ports were exposed to charge, nor having things like this in a car. I actually was looking for a charger for my parents' car, so I can use it on long trips, but no Electronic shops had them. Maybe it's something of a common western-only technology?

As for battery life, a stock DSLite gets close to 15 hours on a new battery.

My DSLIte could never do that. I bought it second handed, but mostly never used. It seems I need a new battery.

[helvetica]

Hmm, yeah I noticed that when I used the USB mode of my PSP and it said "USB Charging is not possible." But I never seen places where USB ports were exposed to charge, nor having things like this in a car. I actually was looking for a charger for my parents' car, so I can use it on long trips, but no Electronic shops had them. Maybe it's something of a common western-only technology?

Fats can't charge off of USB without a hardware mod, but slims and newers can.  As for USB ports themselves, they're becoming far more common thanks to the iPhone/iPod Touch and their ilk.  Nowadays every phone uses mini/microUSB for charging.  Well, they kind of have to as the IETF has standardized on microUSB for charging, and the EU is enforcing it as policy.

My DSLIte could never do that. I bought it second handed, but mostly never used. It seems I need a new battery.

Yeah a new DSLite battery should get you close to 15 hours.

[Fightest]

What I want is for the maximum battery life to NOT deteriorate over time.

Not gonna happen without a major change in status quo in batteries. I know for a fact that we have genuinely small hydrogen fuel cells for laptops and such, which have excellent long-term endurance, but require honest-to-goodness refueling when they're used up. That said, commercial household refueling stations exist for these as well. They're still in the niche consumer stage, though, so it'll be a while before we all switch over to them.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

While a few of the 3DS launch titles appeal to me, those are just ports/remakes of games I can find on other systems (and I can live without SFIV if I have to). The battery life's a major turn-off for me; 3 and a half hours is what my netbook gets, and that barely carries me on an average day.

I'm probably going to wait until the next iteration of the hardware; the DS(i) still has a lot of life in it, and this isn't as big a leap over the DS as much as the DS was over previous Nintendo handhelds.

[Hanzo K.]

I'm probably going to wait until the next iteration of the hardware; the DS(i) still has a lot of life in it, and this isn't as big a leap over the DS as much as the DS was over previous Nintendo handhelds.

Aye.
But what really makes me wonder is how the touch screen mechanics went over so well when the DS was first made.
Call me old fashioned, but back in my day, handhelds never needed fancy gimmicks, they left that to the consoles like Dreamcast, PS1, and N64.

[helvetica]

The DSi was dumb too, hardly anything uses the faster clocked processor and RAM.  Only reason I'm considering one (long long long shot though, really don't need it) is they've come out with new flashcarts that can tap into DSi mode and I'm interested in screwing around with it.

[Hanzo K.]

Logical thought man.

I was gonna put a short rant about the Wii's surprising popularity here too, but that'd be considered off-topic now wouldn't it?

[DX7.EP]

3DS seems quite dead compared to Nintendo's older offerings.

Except for the 3D gimmick everyone seems to take in blindly, it seems to be a massive step backwards (low battery life, inferior hardware compared to some smartphones and the NGP, stupid insistence on proprietary charger, terribly high costs of entry and restrictions for smaller developers, the continuation of the damned Friend Codes).

I bet that most of the sales will come as a result of Nintendo's huge IP library and the heavy boatloads of gimmicky shovelware that follow it (as was the case with the DS and Wii). However, this strategy probably won't be as successful this time around, and chances are that in the next console generation Nintendo will be forced to change its strategy.

As for NGP, well...this isn't the right place for this, but I'll say that it seems even more DOA than the 3DS. I expect the iToys iPod Touch/iPhone/iPad (and their imitators) to push both 3DS and NGP aside, much to the chagrin of button-loving gamers.

[helvetica]

I doubt it.  The NGP isn't any less conductive to the kind of touch-based mini games that the iOS/Android crew get now.  It's got a full capacitive touch screen, the same processor class as iOS/Android devices (Arm Cortex A9), and is heavily rumored to be based off of Android anyways.  And Sony isn't stupid with their online strategy.  The PSN store can easily accommodate games like Angry Birds and Words With Friends (and in Angry Bird's case, already do).  The new 3DSware store hasn't launched yet but all signs point to being garbage like Nintendo's current store offerings.

The 3DS has severe limitations for porting games too.  The touch interface isn't the same, it's resistive vs capacitive, and it's on a secondary screen rather than the primary screen.  The NGP has a second touch pad, but for the most part it can just be used as a touch interface for the front screen or ignored completely.  The resolution is also much lower than even the lowliest of Android/iOS devices.  The NGP can easily take iOS/Android with minimal port work at best, likely just a recompile for Sony's SDK.

What's going to make or break the NGP is the price and the availability of a cheap SDK option.  I think if it debuts at the price level of current iTouch devices then it will be a hit with the consumers.  $299 for the base model is not unreasonable for a device of its calibur by a stretch.  And if Sony is smart and releases an indy-level SDK ala XNA or the current iOS/Android kits for PSN games, then it will be a hit with the developers as well.  There's zero indication of an indy-level SDK for the 3DS nor was there ever for the Wii/DSi.  WiiWare/DSiWare just ended up being a joke because of it.

[Ghaleon]

The hardware hasn't been out long enough to do a "long term battery" study, but for the most part Li-Ion batteries get about 6-12 months before dropping to half capacity.  Charging them less often and not tricklecharging greatly increases their life, as well as making sure the batteries don't overheat.

Yeah I know it's still too new to mention those details specifically. But I just mean people in general tend to disregard long-term life post-charging in favor of brand-new battery life, which isn't as important in the long run IMO. That being said, I still think they should advertise (hopefully because they tried to improve it) the technology used to make it not deteriorate as much or something. That being said, I know little about battery technology other than look at the manual that comes with a product, and follow its guidelines for most effective means of charging it (frequently or wait till' dead basically). So I wasn't aware that there's basically no option to modify that all short of overhauling the entire battery technology as a whole (which I'm getting the impression of in this topic).

Anyway, thanks to everyone who educated me somewhat on this matter >=)

[Sefam]

I would wait for the 3DSlite. The original Nintendo DS Phat was a complete failure in regards to the luminosity of the screen, it made playing it outside in the summer impossible, strangely, the DSlite fixed that problem, even though they would have been able to fix it with the original DS, the technology was there.

Besides, the launch games, as for the original DS, are not going to be that impressive or that interesting, wait for good games and the console might be cheaper by then.

I feel like Nintendo is cutting corners on their hardware to be in competition with Sony's PSP2(Eventually....) in term of prices.

[Xelotath]

I'll wait and see if it gets good games like the DS did. Same with the NGP, I don't want it to be only iOS ports or casual games. I'm guessing the NGP will cost way more than the 3DS too. I don't care for gimmicks like 3D and other stuff so only the games will make me buy one of them. I must admit I'm a bit of a Nintendo fanboy so I'll get it when a good Mario or new Zelda gets released.

[helvetica]

Yeah I know it's still too new to mention those details specifically. But I just mean people in general tend to disregard long-term life post-charging in favor of brand-new battery life, which isn't as important in the long run IMO. That being said, I still think they should advertise (hopefully because they tried to improve it) the technology used to make it not deteriorate as much or something. That being said, I know little about battery technology other than look at the manual that comes with a product, and follow its guidelines for most effective means of charging it (frequently or wait till' dead basically). So I wasn't aware that there's basically no option to modify that all short of overhauling the entire battery technology as a whole (which I'm getting the impression of in this topic).

Anyway, thanks to everyone who educated me somewhat on this matter >=)

Li-Ion has a set number of cycles it can recharge before going dead.  There's several cells, hence why as your battery ages and wears you lose battery life gradually rather than just failing completely.  Your battery typically has some sort of a chip to stagger loads across cells to even out the wear and tear.

Problem is when you're tricklecharging at full capacity, it causes the cells to wear much faster because since all cells are full it's only going to recharge the cell currently discharging.  Smarter battery tech now shuts off the battery completely when on AC and full/near full, but even then it's better to let the battery discharge before charging again.

Most consumer level batteries are rated for 1000 charges/cell.  Given the typical usage cycle of most electronics that comes out to about 6-12 months before significant battery life reduction occurs.

[Fightest]

Li-Ion has a set number of cycles it can recharge before going dead.  There's several cells, hence why as your battery ages and wears you lose battery life gradually rather than just failing completely.  Your battery typically has some sort of a chip to stagger loads across cells to even out the wear and tear.

Problem is when you're tricklecharging at full capacity, it causes the cells to wear much faster because since all cells are full it's only going to recharge the cell currently discharging.  Smarter battery tech now shuts off the battery completely when on AC and full/near full, but even then it's better to let the battery discharge before charging again.

Most consumer level batteries are rated for 1000 charges/cell.  Given the typical usage cycle of most electronics that comes out to about 6-12 months before significant battery life reduction occurs.

The actual mechanism behind this is pretty interesting - the power comes from the chemically-induced charge separation of the battery fuel - in this case the charge carrier species are the lithium ions. Of course, once all the charge carriers have been exhausted, this process can no longer occur, so external charging is required for charge recombination, where the lithium ions are basically induced to wander back, ready to be used again.

Recombination itself happens naturally as well, to a certain degree over time, which is why you can eke out some battery life out of a seemingly-dead battery just by letting it sit for a bit.

The long-term loss of endurance comes from the progressive denaturation of the battery fuel. An ionic battery's ability to provide a current comes from its excellent charge carrier density, and this is progressively lost due to the battery's internal chemical reactions during separation and recombination, where parts of the fuel become basically unusable over time. Hence why it's not really possible to alter this process - it's an inherent part of the battery's operation.

(note: I'm not entirely correct in my explanation, but it's close enough)

[helvetica]

Yeah we got to make a Li-Ion battery in one of my EE classes, it was really neat learning the chemistry behind it.

[Ghaleon]

Since you guys seem interested, I'm going to give fuel. Back int he days, when I used regular duracel/energizer/whatever AA batteries (I imagine AAA or whatever other size works too, can't say from experience though) regularly. I noticed that non-rechargable completely "DEAD" wont even turn the product on anymore batteries... When left alone for like a month or two, seemed to magically recarge on its own a little bit. By little bit, I mean enough to use whatever tool again for a good half hour or more. But certainly not the full length brand new. I still found it rathe rodd though.

This only worked once or twice per battery though.

[helvetica]

There's always a little bit of residual charge left over, you're never going to completely exhaust a cell.

[Ghaleon]

There's always a little bit of residual charge left over, you're never going to completely exhaust a cell.

Yeah but going from can't turn on dead to, being able to turn it on and run it for 30 mintues when it's the same device doesn't exactly explain that behaviour.

[helvetica]

That just means the cell still has capacity, but either sediments from the reaction or corrosion on the conductive parts of the cell drop the output voltage to too low of a level to run your device.  By letting it sit whatever's in the way either settles or breaks down possibly freeing the cell again.

[Fightest]

Since you guys seem interested, I'm going to give fuel. Back int he days, when I used regular duracel/energizer/whatever AA batteries (I imagine AAA or whatever other size works too, can't say from experience though) regularly. I noticed that non-rechargable completely "DEAD" wont even turn the product on anymore batteries... When left alone for like a month or two, seemed to magically recarge on its own a little bit. By little bit, I mean enough to use whatever tool again for a good half hour or more. But certainly not the full length brand new. I still found it rathe rodd though.

This only worked once or twice per battery though.

I mentioned it in my explanatory post - the fuel will actually recombine. This isn't residual charge or anything, this is the battery genuinely self-recharging. It's very slow and it plateaus off quickly, though.

[Stuffman]

I did that too many times with a set of AAs and had them explode in the back of my gameboy once :V

[helvetica]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/03/cradled-by-inadequacy-the-3ds-battery-put-to-the-test.ars

Still excited about the 3DS?  4.5 hours is the best you're going to get out of it in 3DS mode.  This is with sound off, 3D off, and Wifi off.

http://static.arstechnica.com/gaming/ifixit3dsbattery.jpg

Look at this shit and you tell me Nintendo isn't just being cheapasses and giving themselves wiggleroom for 3DSLite improvements.  We tried everything we could to improve battery life, you know, everything except using this massive empty space for a larger battery because that'd cut into profits.

[KomeijiKoishi]

Oh, Nintendo, not even a remake of the first two Golden Sun games will make me buy this within this generation.