Author Topic: Selling fanfiction is illegal?  (Read 25915 times)

Quad City QBs

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2011, 10:06:48 PM »
Still waiting on an answer to my spaceship hypothetical.

Because I am currently drunk, I would imagine jurisdiction might arise over the firm that coordinated/financed the launch, under respondeat superior.  It may also be possible for a US court to exercise jurisdiction pursuant to a long-arm statute, on the theory that sending copies of the infringing work to US computers constitutes minimum contacts.

A claim may in the least be feasible against people viewing the fanfic, as viewing any content online of course creates a copy in RAM and in your cache.  See MAI Systems v. Peak Computer.

Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice, nor as creating an attorney-client relationship, nor as an advertisement for legal or law-related services.
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Tengukami

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2011, 10:36:40 PM »
Well then! Good to know. That surprisingly makes a lot of sense.

It looks like extra-dimensional publishing is the way to go then.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2011, 07:49:58 AM »
We could theoretically DESTROY THIS DESPICABLE EXCUSE FOR A CIVILIZATION, AND BUILD A NEW ONE ON ITS ASHES!!!

But, eh, :effort:

C27

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2011, 11:09:05 AM »
We could theoretically DESTROY THIS DESPICABLE EXCUSE FOR A CIVILIZATION, AND BUILD A NEW ONE ON ITS ASHES!!!

But, eh, :effort:

Or we could do something totally crazy like participate in the democratic process, and try to elect people that will stand up for fair-use distribution rights, copyright reform, and also reform of campaign finance (which is the root of the problem, megacorporations buying out lawmakers in order to get laws adjusted to benefit themselves at the expense of the public).

Quad City QBs

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2011, 02:35:56 PM »
Or we could do something totally crazy like participate in the democratic process, and try to elect people that will stand up for fair-use distribution rights, copyright reform, and also reform of campaign finance (which is the root of the problem, megacorporations buying out lawmakers in order to get laws adjusted to benefit themselves at the expense of the public).

At this point, there isn't much we can do within the constraints of TRIPS.  (Our copyright term is life + 70 years, widely considered much too long, but TRIPS requires life + 50 which isn't that much better.)  So it's not just a matter of domestic politics, but actually getting all the WTO member nations to sign off on a copyright rollback.

One area in which something can be done is fair use.  The actual statute is fairly open, leaving a lot to the courts--the trick is making a more liberal reading of ? 107 fashionable to the US courts.  Over the past decade or two, the federal courts--led by the Second Circuit--have come to value factor 1 (transformative use) above all others in making the fair use determination.

That's potentially helpful for fanworks, which are certainly transformative in that you're doing something different with the characters.  But even under today's standards, to win under fair use you must show that you were borrowing from the original work for a different and legitimate purpose (use), and that you borrowed no more than necessary for that purpose.  Under U.S. v. Gaylord, one might argue that my Haruhi doujin makes the same use as the original work (i.e. to tell a story about a bitchy reality-warping girl.)  But then, courts have been growing more receptive in terms of what kinds of uses they will credit as fair.  In  Blanch v. Koons, the defendant C&P'd a photo of some legs as part of a collage for a German art installation.  He was exonerated under fair use because his use of the photo was for a different purpose (social commentary), plus he Photoshopped the legs up a bit (physical transformativeness.)  Then in Perfect 10 v. Amazon, Google's generation of Image Search thumbnails was immunized under fair use, because they're necessary to search engines, which are highly socially beneficial.

Even with this precedent, it's probably a ways off before courts will give my Sola bondage doujin a pass.  And then the real problem is uncertainty--fair use is notoriously expensive to litigate, presenting some very murky questions of fact that require a lot of evidence and expert testimony to be trotted out for the jury.  So maybe Google can bring home a big fair use victory, but your average basement doujinshika will almost certainly be forced to settle.

Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice, nor as creating an attorney-client relationship, nor as an advertisement for legal or law-related services.
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C27

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2011, 03:33:25 PM »
In any case, fanworks are going to keep being spread underground no matter what as long as their profile stays low.

ZUN's at least supportive of fanworks, and thus setting a better precedent from the other end of things. He knows that the more fanworks spread, the more people will be willing to buy his games and official writing and all. Too bad more people don't understand this.

TakuTaku

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2011, 03:50:01 PM »
Too bad more people don't understand this.

It's all about the moneys and greeds. "You can't make money out of my stuff because that's MY STUFF."

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HakureiSM

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2011, 12:09:23 AM »
YOU PLAYED A SONG BY MOZART ON YOUR PIANO AND NOW ADS APPEAR BECAUSE THE SONG IS OWNED BY MUSIC PUBLISHING RIGHTS COLLECTING SOCIETY.

What the shit.
Maullar, I'm now curious about this one little Google stunt.
If copyright lasts life + 70, then unless the Doc took Mozart for a little trip and then he copyrighted Requiem less than 70 years ago while travelling through time, having died in 1791 surely every single one of his compositions' rights have expired by now, right?
Hell, there's even this website I posted here a while ago that has a classical music database, all works contained in such database having either their copyrights expired due to the song having been composed hundreds of years ago or their composers having authorized free distribution.
All this considered, what the hell bloody claim was that on that video?
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
                                                                                   .

Thata no Guykoro

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2011, 12:17:47 AM »
According to the description, the guy says the claim was apparently filed by some group called "Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society".

A quick google search turns up a bunch of discussion, and apparently they're likely a fraudulent group. Here's the first result for them.

Quad City QBs

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2011, 12:49:08 AM »
According to the description, the guy says the claim was apparently filed by some group called "Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society".

A quick google search turns up a bunch of discussion, and apparently they're likely a fraudulent group. Here's the first result for them.

According to this YT help thread, it's a generic term for a royalty collecting society.  These societies, like BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC, are an intermediary for music publishers to sell performance* licenses to radio stations, restaurants, webcasters and the like.

It's important to note that while Mozart's compositions are indeed public domain, a musical work and a performance thereof are legally distinct.  You can't copyright the 9th Symphony, but you can copyright the 9th Symphony -as played by X-.  That's probably what's happening here.

* Playing a song to the public constitutes a 'performance' under the copyright laws.

Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice, nor as creating an attorney-client relationship, nor as an advertisement for legal or law-related services.
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HakureiSM

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2011, 02:16:14 AM »
I was just reading through those pages(thanks, Thatguy), and I'm still baffled.

According to them, many original works are being claimed there. Some of them absurd ones.
According to that blog post
Quote
I read some person recorded an alarm siren and s/he was hit with a copyright notice.
Holy shit, they plagiarized Lady Gaga!
That Mozart Requiem video, too, I didn't get the chance to watch before the audioswap, but it seems quite clear that it was played by the uploader himself.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
                                                                                   .

Quad City QBs

  • tumblr, tumblr, in the attic,
  • who is the most problematic?
    • maullarmaullar @ Tumblr
Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2011, 03:42:47 AM »
As you're probably already aware, Youtube automatically scans its content for copyrighted material.  It's not unreasonable to imagine the algorithm is making at least a few mistakes.

Now as for why Youtube scans for copyrighted stuff in the first place--naturally, it's been under heavy scrutiny from the media companies almost since the beginning.  Even moreso when internal e-mails, making quite clear that Youtube benefited from infringing videos (and didn't think much of big media in general), came up in discovery during Viacom's lawsuit.  Really, Youtube's rightsholder support is likely the only reason it won the suit.

Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice, nor as creating an attorney-client relationship, nor as an advertisement for legal or law-related services.
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HakureiSM

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Re: Selling fanfiction is illegal?
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2011, 11:19:12 PM »
As you're probably already aware, Youtube automatically scans its content for copyrighted material.  It's not unreasonable to imagine the algorithm is making at least a few mistakes.
Fair point, though the whole 'the corporations before the people' thing still gets a lot to me, etc.
There's no consistent way(consistent being a key word here) for a user that uploaded say, a video recording of an alarm siren, and got his ass auto-scanned and ads put up in their video, generating revenue to a third party no one even knows who is, to reach up to the service provider and get things straightened up and those ads off his user-created content.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
                                                                                   .