Author Topic: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)  (Read 10277 times)

Ghaleon

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How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« on: December 31, 2010, 10:17:57 PM »
Recently, it has just occured to me t hat despite not liking Romance-oriented fiction, or even caring for Romance in Television shows, movies, books, etc that I like. I find myself strangely wanting it in my videogames (provided I like/care about the characters in question).

For example, I like Worf and Dax in Startrek, but I don't give a flying hoot about the Romance in their stories, ditto for all the married couples of characters I like in Raymond Feist, or David Gemmel, or George RR Martin. It makes no difference to me. I don't feel elated when I see it blooming for the first time or nothing. It's just kinda filling text to me.

But for some reason, I feel my heart aching during the scene in Xenosaga when Fei goes to Elly's house for the first time. Or During many of the character-specific portions of Eien no Aselia, or the stuff between Welks and Alicia In Valkyria Chronicles. Hell, even that scene in Sengoku Gensokyo where Alice and Marisa are fighting about the nature of Magicians (even though Romance doesn't really exist in that one) tugged at my heartstrings.

I don't watch anime (nanoha and Rozen Maiden are the only 2 I've seen), but I felt a similar feeling when Shinku loses her arm in Rozen Maiden and Jun is keeping her safe in that house. Now doll->Human probably isn't romance exactly, but there is clearly love there on both parts. The funny thing is, All the examples I listed, while the characters in question aren't poorly designed or anything, I don't really think they are developed more significantly or better than countless other characters in other forms of fiction that I've read/seen where I do NOT care about romance. Am I a weirdo? Is romance in Games/anime somehow more effective at making you care for some reason for other people? It's not that I think their stories are better (Personally I think books by George RR Martin and Raymond Feist pretty much clobbers any form of story in a game I've played so far), or like the characters more than some of my faves in books. I don't know what it is!

Matsuri

Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2010, 10:35:31 PM »
I'm a bit of a romance fanatic, and I sometimes tend to focus on said relationships in a story, even if they're second to the story itself.


However, that is not to say that I dislike friendship-based relationships in stories, either. A well-written, close friendship will always seem more interesting to me than a bland, clich? romantic one (even though I still tend to be a sucker for those, too)


._.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 11:03:40 PM by Satori Komatsuri »

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 10:54:01 PM »
For someone with basically zero experience with romance, I'm a hopeless romantic when it comes to fiction in basically any form. The two, though, may be less exclusive than I care to admit. However (again probably due to inexperience) I often feel that romance is handled very poorly in fiction. I can't explain why, but a lot of times it either feels forced or way way way too sappy. My all-time favorite manga is a seinen romance with a premise that I'd usually hate with a passion (loser single male, near-jailbait female, living together, yadda yadda) but was handled extremely well. Most, however, feel like an excuse for sex, especially in male-oriented manga and anime. Shoujo, in comparison, is where I feel a lot of sap pours forth (maybe I'm being mean though).

I have read too few books lately, but a lot handle it well. Some equate it with sex, but most that I've read are deeper than that.

Anyways, most of my favorite fiction to this day has some sort of romantic ties within it, even if they're a very small part of the story. Fanfiction included.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2010, 10:55:50 PM »
I don't like romance that's described too ambitiously or with too much attention being directed to the purported feeling of love. I find it interesting when an attachment to a person begins to develop within a character, though, in addition to their own reactions to this sudden emotional revelation, and how they choose to act to either encourage or destroy it.
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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2010, 11:33:42 PM »
Romance, like any other subject, is good as long as it's written well.  Unfortunately, there happen to be even more hack writers in this genre than just about any other.  And even if you just look at non-romance-centric fiction, there are a lot of writers who, whilst they ecel in other fields, crash and burn horribly when it comes to writing romance.

...Which is a shame as, although I'm not a fan of the romance genre as a whole, seeing well-written romance in my media is one of the things that turn me into a squeeing schoolgirl. :blush:
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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 11:42:00 PM »
Romance is good in my fiction.

But the main problem I find with it, is if it's too good.
When it gets too good, I have a feeling that the author's going to do something later that's horrible. I've read enough of the wrong stuff to get that itching feeling.
And even then, I just feel that romance can make me teary...

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2011, 12:01:01 AM »
Romance is only good if it's not the main focus of the story. It's just too predictable otherwise.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2011, 12:43:11 AM »
I like my romance to be batshit insane. If a couple haven't attempted to murder each other at least once I'm not interested.

Seriously though, I can't stomach romance if it's sterile and sappy. There has to be a compelling twist or quirk to keep me interested. Mirai Nikki absolutely nailed what I look for in a fictional relationship.

Occasionally I'll disapply the above principle when I REALLY like the characters involved, but it's an incredibly rare occurrence.

Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2011, 12:45:48 AM »
When romance isn't the main focus, then you don't really get your hopes up for it, so when it comes it up it's a legit surprise. It's like when you go into something expecting it to be good and leave disappointed vs going into something with no expectations and being blown away.

Also budding romances have a similar appeal of tsunderes.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2011, 01:34:31 AM »
Short answer: I don't.

Long answer: I'm much more interested in love than I am in romance. A long while ago, I was struck by the idea of non-romantic love stories being the best kind. That means deep relationships of all kinds, but not necessarily romantic ones, which is in and of itself enough of a quirk to keep me interested. I'm with A Huge Battleship on this one; typical romances are too sterile and sappy and very not dynamic enough for my tastes. There are exceptions (like Fushigi Yuugi, for some reason) where this doesn't apply, but that is, again, a rare occurrence.

For the most part, I stay away from romance for that reason. It's just not written well enough to keep my attention. (This does mean that I sometimes get the pleasant surprise of a romance that's not the main focus of the plot, and those are always great to run into.)

Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2011, 01:37:11 AM »
Also because no one wants to watch two people oggle each other for hours on end. It's like they say "get a room already" :getdown:

Matsuri

Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2011, 01:40:23 AM »
It's sort of a guilty pleasure in my case. Even if I know it's sappy and lame, I can't help but be somewhat drawn to it. :ohdear:

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2011, 02:13:46 AM »
It's sort of a guilty pleasure in my case. Even if I know it's sappy and lame, I can't help but be somewhat drawn to it. :ohdear:

Yeah bro it's not like it's completely obvious from your avatar/sig stuff or anything :V

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2011, 03:16:59 AM »
Recently, it has just occured to me t hat despite not liking Romance-oriented fiction, or even caring for Romance in Television shows, movies, books, etc that I like. I find myself strangely wanting it in my videogames (provided I like/care about the characters in question).

For example, I like Worf and Dax in Startrek, but I don't give a flying hoot about the Romance in their stories, ditto for all the married couples of characters I like in Raymond Feist, or David Gemmel, or George RR Martin. It makes no difference to me. I don't feel elated when I see it blooming for the first time or nothing. It's just kinda filling text to me.

But for some reason, I feel my heart aching during the scene in Xenosaga when Fei goes to Elly's house for the first time. Or During many of the character-specific portions of Eien no Aselia, or the stuff between Welks and Alicia In Valkyria Chronicles. Hell, even that scene in Sengoku Gensokyo where Alice and Marisa are fighting about the nature of Magicians (even though Romance doesn't really exist in that one) tugged at my heartstrings.

I don't watch anime (nanoha and Rozen Maiden are the only 2 I've seen), but I felt a similar feeling when Shinku loses her arm in Rozen Maiden and Jun is keeping her safe in that house. Now doll->Human probably isn't romance exactly, but there is clearly love there on both parts. The funny thing is, All the examples I listed, while the characters in question aren't poorly designed or anything, I don't really think they are developed more significantly or better than countless other characters in other forms of fiction that I've read/seen where I do NOT care about romance. Am I a weirdo? Is romance in Games/anime somehow more effective at making you care for some reason for other people? It's not that I think their stories are better (Personally I think books by George RR Martin and Raymond Feist pretty much clobbers any form of story in a game I've played so far), or like the characters more than some of my faves in books. I don't know what it is!

I haven't played those games, but maybe because in videogames, you get a deeper connection with the characters, as they represent you, and do whatever you want them to do, whereas in television and novels, their actions are predetermined and you're just watching from a far. Also, stories in videogames tend to be told from your character's point of view, as opposed to movies and novels which tend to be third person. Just a guess.

As for opinion, I'm not really a romance fan, I tend to go for the actiony, quirky things more than anything else, and I have yet see a romance that doesn't detract from the overall experience. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but I'm just not really looking it.

Also, Ruro, could you elaborate on the difference between romance and love. I kind of get what you're saying, but elaboration would help. I just ask because that's the first time I've seen someone seperate the two.

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Ghaleon

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2011, 03:22:55 AM »
Yeah when I say romance, I basically mean any and/or every kind of strong loving relationship that may not have, or is much more than an excuse for sex. Might not be the best choice of words but "romance" evokes a deeper meaning to me than just "love".

Am I the only one who so-far favors game romance over others? I feel so alone (cries)

Matsuri

Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2011, 03:25:18 AM »
Yeah bro it's not like it's completely obvious from your avatar/sig stuff or anything :V

I don't exactly make any attempts to hide it :derp:

JT

Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2011, 08:25:58 AM »
Show, don't tell.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2011, 12:46:14 AM »
I do like to see love flourish, whether it's real life, fiction, or even on the battlefield. Sex and general sexiness is overrated in general and get in the way of people being people. Romance and love is a crucial aspect of emotional development and therefore is an important part of my own connection to characters in a story. It might be tough to pull off well without it feeling contrived or campy, but when it works, it always works well.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2011, 02:22:35 AM »
Romance is only good if it's not the main focus of the story. It's just too predictable otherwise.

Basically this.

Sex doesn't have to be involved to make a romance good for me. Even a simple infatuation, if done tastefully, is entertaining to read about. Bonus points if it's an unusual, abnormal or otherwise unexpected pairing.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2011, 03:40:03 AM »
I always thought that the best romance in fiction is done one of two ways:

1) a la "Don't Stop Believin'," two uncertain and unlikely people spending their time out of depression, no other options, not even hope.  Half "I can only rely on you, and you on me - we're two tramps, might as well enjoy ourselves" and the other half "The world sucks, we're all we've got."
2) Cut-and-thrust between two even less likely individuals.

I could probably articulate my thoughts a little better if I wasn't smashed on good Scotch.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2011, 03:59:41 AM »
Having just finished Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, I'll say that I do indeed like to see romance in stories. Sure they play it for ridiculous laughs a lot in the game but by the end you know these two people truly love each other.

I'm kinda a sap for romance really.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2011, 05:10:14 AM »
Having just finished Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, I'll say that I do indeed like to see romance in stories. Sure they play it for ridiculous laughs a lot in the game but by the end you know these two people truly love each other.

I'm kinda a sap for romance really.

^ This. I also played ToS2 and they romance/love relationship is made to be the source of jokes in game, but like Yoshi said, they do love each other.

When it's like that, I like it.

When it's a more unlikely/difficult, and it works out, I LOVE it.

Example: The girl is oblivious the guys existance, but he can't get his mind off of her. Eventually, the guy ends up being reconized as existing by the girl, and ends up friends with her and it's pretty clear it won't stop at that.

Bonus points if the relationship ends up minorly involved in a plot point, like a town being attacked and the guy risks himself to protect her and she's being Tsundere/Shy. The guy is screwed, he knows it too, but he risks himself anyway.

That example is a completly random one, but each chunk shows up in an RPG somewhere :P

I also generally, but not always, hate romance in novels and manga, but I am more favorable towards videogame romance. Probly cause the games player has a more direct connection to the events then the novel reader. Fire Emblem games can be good examples of this, you the player, are essentially a character in the game(s) who guides the characters actions as a strategist, meaning the victory of the characters is tied in that much more as your victory, Female Character L falls for Male Character H because you guided them together.

I guess, in video games, liking it is cause we the player(s) are more connected with the cast. We feel sorry for them, we get angry with/at them, we cheer with them, we laugh at/with them.

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2011, 10:47:44 PM »
I generally don't care that much for romance. However, it tends to be so common that I generally just expect it, and wonder "Oh let's see, how is the romance subplot that will inevitably be here work out?"

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2011, 11:09:57 PM »
I generally don't care that much for romance. However, it tends to be so common that I generally just expect it, and wonder "Oh let's see, how is the romance subplot that will inevitably be here work out?"

That's how I feel with a great deal of it myself kinda. It's just filler or fluff normally. But for some reason in some of the game I play (the ones with good stories I mean) I find it touching. I mean the Aeris/tifa/cloud thing in FF7 was crap IMO, as was what little affection there was in Chrono trigger, etc.

Maybe it only works if you particularly like both characters in question, which kinda makes me scratch my head at people who say they hate X character because he gets the girl or whatever. Sounds like a stupid reason to me. I mean when I was watching Rozen maiden, I saw many people talk about the story and say they hated Jun because he's earned the love and respect of all the dolls around him. But for me, I liked him because he really did EARN it y'know? Which is kinda funny because characters like Rance, they are often viewed favorably by t he public it seems, and I hate that guy's guts, seriously. I wanted him to genuinely fall in love with Kenshin or something so bad. Kinda seems like he is with Kouhime but..well, yeah, not quite. I hope he does when she grows up but I really doubt it.

Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2011, 01:15:06 AM »
Now I'm curious. What do you guys think are good examples of romance in fiction?

Ghaleon

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2011, 02:49:46 AM »
Now I'm curious. What do you guys think are good examples of romance in fiction?

Well I gave some in my op (though replace xenosaga with xenogears, doh), even though a couple of them aren't really real romance, but are indeed deep with that loving relationship/feeling that I'm talking about.

I don't think I mentioned it, but many of the romances you can get in Eien no Aselia are well done I think. I played the pg-13 version. I don't know if the porno version ruins it or not.  While I personally like Esperia the most ( <3, miko-girl comes second ) the story with...uhh.. I forget her name is the best! Lol, the red-haired burninating pedo-bait girl. Before I started doing her route (I decided to do them all pretty much, though I stopped 2 short), I thought it would be awkward since she's too young. But she's very loveable in a non-sexual way, and the main character realizes that he is happiest with her. So they eventually decide to spend the rest of their lives with each other, and the girl is understanding of the man's position, and never really pushes him towards any kind of physical affection (except that one time she kisses him after the main character gets wisdom..Funny I remember the name of his second sword but not his name, durka durka). I especially like how she helps him out become an eternal without reminding him who she is when he forgot, expecting to never see him again.

Can't wait for part 2 to get translated. I hope the romances in that game are as good >=)

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Re: How do you like Romance in your fiction? (romance, not sex)
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2011, 01:15:06 PM »
Now I'm curious. What do you guys think are good examples of romance in fiction?



I tried for about 10 minutes but could think of no other fictional romances that I've genuinely found compelling before. It's amazing how trite/uninspired many of them seem upon reflection.

As for why, it's primarily because it's such an unconventional and exciting relationship that I couldn't help but be fascinated by it. [WARNING! A HUGE SPOILER "MIRAI NIKKI" IS APPROACHING FAST!]
Spoiler:
From the outset, Yuno holds such an absurd emotional dependency upon Yuki that her few remaining fragments of sanity require his presence in order to persist. He, in contrast, has no romantic feelings for her at all and only maintains a pretence of caring for her because he needs her to survive. The result is a ridiculously unstable relationship that encompasses, amongst other things, stalking, threats, hostage taking, abduction, forced imprisonment, attempted murder, joint suicide, murder of oneself in alternate dimensions and a Dynasty Warrior-esque body count.

There's also a reoccurring question mark over whether Yuno is actually someone to be trusted, what her true motives are and whether she's genuinely in love with Yuki. It serves to keep the relationship fresh and interesting right up until the closing chapters.

Oh yeah, and the two also look and act fantastic when they're working together to slaughter people en masse.

In all honestly, I'm sure not sure whether this would be considered an objectively good example of romance in fiction, but from a subjective perspective it's fucking brilliant.