Topic: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)  (Read 14631 times)

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Momiji

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2010, 07:21:03 pm »
Danmakufu.  Enough said, sorry.

CK Crash

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2010, 07:26:58 pm »
Danmakufu.  Enough said, sorry.
why would you post this in a forum that's 90% dmf

Azure Lazuline

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2010, 07:28:38 pm »
I queried him about it, he got mad that DMF is Windows-only and he's running Linux. Not worth posting about in my opinion, so don't discuss this further.

Momiji

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2010, 07:29:05 pm »
why would you post this in a forum that's 90% dmf
I was hoping to play it...   ?  I heard there were fuzzy things, and I like fuzzy things.

Raibys

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2010, 07:40:04 pm »
About the story and characters: Azure and I just talked this morning, and we've come up with a few ideas to help make next release have a bit more background going for each of the characters and the general scenario and stuff. It will include accessible "profiles" +artwork of the people that show up in the game (kind of like the ones ZUN includes in his games, but most likely more in depth) as well as perhaps some information about the world that the playable characters and the Cybers come from, and what the Cybers...do and why. Also, as stated before, when there is more game to be played, more story will come up. Overload is strong, but is still far from the strongest or most important Cyber, so...yeah.

As it is, we're considering putting up some profiles+artwork separately as I prepare them, so you'll probably get to see at least some of this stuff pretty soon actually. ^_^;
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 07:45:36 pm by Raibys »
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KrackoCloud

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2010, 09:11:11 pm »
The danmaku has a distinct style is very refreshing! But the patterns are pretty hard to read in this game, especially in those cards with unactivated/aesthetic lasers.
I like the music, and the item system is nice. I wish there was another playable character with a straightforward shottype. It's a bit frustrating to not be able to use two of the characters, and thus be forced to use a spread/homing-type character.

Azure Lazuline

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2010, 09:36:21 pm »
You can use any Danmakufu player script you want, although it won't save high scores. The full version will have more player characters though, including a straight shooter. I just prioritized these three characters because in my opinion, weird shot types are more fun. Besides, they're not that hard to use if you practice for a while. If you just want to mess around and learn how to use a character without worrying about dying, just turn on unlimited lives in the options menu.

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2010, 09:43:56 pm »
I wish there was another playable character with a straightforward shottype. It's a bit frustrating to not be able to use two of the characters, and thus be forced to use a spread/homing-type character.

Raibys and Nhimor aren't really so difficult if you just play with them for a while and get used to them.

Raibys - use yellow mode during stages. It turns into blue mode when you focus which is pretty good DPS, then you can rotate back to yellow once you're clear. Use red for bosses if you have a clear shot, black is also good against certain cards if you don't want to stay under the boss.

Nhimor - the trick to using his options is to place them based on what you're doing, not what the enemies are doing. If I have time to set up I like to drop all four options in a horizontal line and move to the center, then focus and move them around, gives good coverage like Reimu C in MoF. When you're moving to the side of the screen, drop the options behind you, that way you keep that half of the screen clear so it's easier to get out. During bosses just drop all four options on yourself and focus fire, it has very good DPS.

Bitz

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2010, 10:05:00 pm »
Okay, I'm playing through the game more seriously now – so I'll type up some of my thoughts as I play.

Lymia's shot really is pretty weak. The slight stage advantage is not worth the boss disadvantage. In fact, there might not be a stage advantage at all, because many enemies have too much health for Lymia to kill before they fly off the screen. I can use Nihmor's shot as kind of a straight-forward if I just tap Shift+Shot every once in a while.
The stage enemies in Stage 3 have a lot more health than previous enemies. I can't seem to kill any of them before they go off-screen.

My overall impression of the danmaku is that there's just too much going on at once. Each individual aspect of the danmaku is creative, but by forcing many of these aspects together into the same pattern, they all try to overpower each other until what comes out is just a chaotic mess. If the danmaku is somewhat redesigned, I can see it becoming much more sensible and fun to play. Stage danmaku also feels the same way: I noticed that there was a LACK of repetition, which made it a lot more dynamic but also confusing at the same time.

The characters seem really one-dimensional. Ender's all like "I will use my Cyber-ness and weapons to kill you," and Empegh is very "I AM NOT LOUD WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HURRRR" and Overload's just generically evil, if you know what I mean. The stage 3 midboss, well, she might be a deeper character. And Yukari's just Yukari. I only read Nhimor's dialogue, but the impression I'm getting of him is that he's a giant color-changing single-celled thingy with no detectable sense of consequence. He just wants to see explosions and kiss girls, and doesn't even understand why a random stranger would refuse to be kissed by a giant blob.

Another thing I noticed is that there are a LOT of specialized bullets, or bullets that are only used in one specific pattern and not others. This is bad if it is overdone, and especially if it is done without any good reason. For example, Empegh's second spell has those big rainbowy squares, which I somewhat questioned, because people usually imagine sound waves in the shape of crescents, not squares. The rice-bullets with circles around them feel unnecessary, as if they're just there for the sake of being there.

Score and PV items look reaaaaally boring in comparison to all the other shiny graphics.

How did you do the scrolling-rainbow effect on the Capture Bonuses? I've been trying to do something similar in OpenGL but I haven't found a simple way to do it for complex masks yet.

Azure Lazuline

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2010, 10:19:58 pm »
Lymia being underpowered again: I didn't want the "simple" character to end up the best (IN border team), so I intentionally made her a bit weaker... looks like I overdid it.

Too much going on: Mostly a style choice, but I'll keep it in mind.

One-dimensional characters: No need to repeat the same counter-arguments over and over, so just read the last page of replies.

Specialized bullets: Another style choice. A lot of the bullets will be used more evenly, since again, this is only the first few stages. I had crescent bullets for Empegh's attack, like the one right before it, but I didn't like how it looked at all, so I switched it out for something else. As for the "rice bullets with circles" being there just for the sake of it, you can say the exact same thing about ZUN's circled bullets.
I just like a lot of variety in general, as should be painfully obvious by now.

Score items being boring: Super-flashy rainbow score items would get in the way. The items are boring on purpose since otherwise they would be distracting or overpower the bullets, though maybe I could make them slightly animated or something. Also, it's refreshing for someone to say "this isn't shiny enough" rather than "AAAH, TOO SHINY."

Scrolling rainbows: Effect object with a strip of vertices (about ten), then setting the color for each one and having it scroll. It would be really easy if your color system used HSV rather than RGB, so I made a pseudo-converter for that purpose.

KrackoCloud

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2010, 11:08:15 pm »
Oh, one thing. After a boss attack ends, the bullets fade away rather slowly. It's pretty distracting/disorienting. It might be better to make them fade more quickly?

Jaimers

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2010, 11:31:24 pm »
Just to let you know, you get a script error everytime you want to practice spellcard 19 in boss practice.

Also, 2/2 on That One Card.  :V

1/100 on "Labyrinth of the Mind" though. I find this easily the hardest thing in the game so far, everything else didn't take more than 15 attempts.   @_@

Azure Lazuline

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2010, 11:41:25 pm »
Bullets fading more quickly: It's either that or instantly disappearing, since I'm using Danmakufu's built-in bullet clear since it's global. It shouldn't be much of a problem since there's usually a few seconds between spell cards anyway.

Error message: Now why didn't any of my testers (or me) discover that? I'm obviously fixing that for next release, but I don't think it's a big enough deal to make another release just for that. If anyone really wants to practice that attack, I could send a fixed file, though.

Bitz

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2010, 01:24:24 am »
When I said the score items looked boring, I meant that they look very similar to the default danmakufu items, not that they weren't seizuretastic enough. The similarity to Touhou's items bothered me because while everything else seemed heavily stylized, here were some Touhou-style items, looking really out of place.

Edit: IDDYEA HAS NO PANTS
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 01:29:29 am by Bitz »

Raibys

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2010, 11:52:50 pm »
This is the shiniest DMF creation ever. Your computer must be angry at you for typing ADD so much times.
Anyways, only one complaint. Those soul/whatever items are somewhat... odd, as in I have no idea when I'm getting one and when I'm not. Is there a chance that you can make those items a little bit more... defined? I'm not sure if I'm wording it correctly.

Azure Lazuline

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2010, 01:35:15 am »
You mean you don't know when you collect one or not? I could probably have a better disappearing animation or sound if that's the case. Until then, you can just keep an eye above your character, which will display numbers when you collect one. If you mean the hitbox isn't well-defined enough, there's nothing I can really do about that, since I really like the current graphics. Hopefully it's not too much of a problem.

Bitz

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2010, 02:42:04 am »
The swirly things' hitboxes are a bit hard to discern. They're pretty large, though, and most people would underestimate their size, I believe. This is a good thing, because instead of rushing up to collect one of those items and finding that they actually aren't close enough and took a risk of dying for nothing, they'll collect the item before they think they will and get more time than they expected to retreat back to safety.

The sound effect and disappearing effect for those items are pretty obvious to me. I don't see much of a problem with them.

Naut

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2011, 08:09:41 am »
Thread revival.

Video.

Some stuff:
  • History on some cards doesn't seem to work correctly, see: Empegh's Noise "Echo Blaster;" Yukari's Warp "Road to Makai"
  • Can there be a noise or visual cue when the boss is low on health? I'm pretty much left in the dark at the bottom of the screen most of the time. Would've been nice on Yumemi's Astral Science "Comet of Ages..."
  • 2.5 is so fast for focused speed... I can see the justification for Nhimor, but the rest don't need such fast focused movement, in my opinion anyway. It seems really awkward with Raibys for sure.
  • Please go over your use of additive blended bullets with additive blended effects, I'm in tears during most of Yumemi's fight :(
  • I think it's really weird to have 15 lives by the end of stage 3. Perhaps exchanging less pink with more green? Or more bullets clears. Or something. I feel horrible missing 13 times and still clearing... :V

</late>

Paper Conan

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2011, 09:57:13 pm »
Wow. I just saw Naut's upload and all I have to say is.... "wow"
The art isn't that good (but then again ZUN's art is meh) (you actually grow used to it after a while), but the gameplay, graphics, animation, music.... everything @_@

I highly recommend this game to be sold (as long as you have ZUN's permission). I just..... love........ it......
Please finish this project. I don't think I can "wait warmly while the girls prepare"....... for that long.

I LOVE YOU....

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Ordinary Neumann

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2011, 03:35:37 am »
Easily the best Danmakufu game I've ever played (Barring maybe CTC).

Azure Lazuline

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Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2011, 06:00:26 am »
History not working correctly sometimes: people should have told me back during actual beta testing. I knew I screwed up at least one, even though I double-checked it all, but too late for that...

Visual cue for the boss low on health: Check the enemy marker. It changes color and flashes faster when the boss is low on health.  I'll add an additional effect to make it more obvious, if you want.

Focused speed: Personal preference, really. When I had Raibys's focused speed low, I found that I was forced to unfocus sometimes to dodge things that shouldn't really require it, which can be pretty limiting for something like Frost Form (which you never seem to use anyway, so it probably wouldn't matter to you). I tried to find a balance, and I'll probably lower it by 0.5, but it's staying somewhat high.

Effect blindness: Yeah, I'll cut down on it. Yumemi seems to be the only one that multiple people complain about, though.

Too many lives: Remember that you also die more often, since lives aren't linked to bombs, so having tons of lives isn't as much as it seems. I mean, in the video you posted, you were still pretty short on lives by the end... Also, the only things that drop pink are the bosses (and one or two individual stage enemies), and bosses drop slightly more if you capture an attack.

I'm trying to go for a "high difficulty but lots of lives" method of balancing, rather than "low difficulty and few lives", for multiple reasons. It makes each mistake less of a blow on your overall performance but requires the same amount of skill overall (same logic for the new bomb system), plus playing through lower stages is more fun when you're trying to capture things you haven't before (as opposed to Touhou, where if you reach the final boss and play through again, the first half of the game will probably be extremely easy with no real challenge).

Art: I'd rather focus on the important things instead of something you see just in dialogue. At least there's more variety in the poses.

Selling the game: it's going to stay free. It wouldn't feel right selling something that's inspired and based on someone else's work.

I love you: I love you too.
 

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