Author Topic: Downloading Touhou Games  (Read 21304 times)

Tengukami

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2010, 01:26:34 PM »
I also wonder about that. It's not as though Touhou is a religion that will be corrupted by too many followers, experiencing fractures and holy wars. It's just a game series with a fanbase. What are more fans going to do?

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Iryan

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2010, 01:35:00 PM »
This question comes up too often.

Being interested (and invested) in something that most other people don't know about gives you a feeling of being "special", an actual positive feedback.

Of course, this is as irrational as it is subconscious and therefore not subject to one's own rationale to begin with.

Touhou being popular would not make touhou itself any worse, nor would it make the fanbase worse.
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Tengukami

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2010, 01:37:08 PM »
Touhou being popular would not make touhou itself any worse, nor would it make the fanbase worse.

Hell, if anything, it might improve the fanbase. More doujin artists and musicians competing with each other is a good thing, and would probably raise the overall quality of fan works. More "hurr durr" fans would just blend into the background noise.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 01:41:19 PM by Cask of Ammy-tillado »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

チソウ タイゼン

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2010, 02:30:30 PM »
It's funny, I was thinking about pestering ZUN about this after I go to college.
On a typical service, let's say, the PSN, the X-Blah, and the WSC, how much would this cost anyway?
How would fans get the extra crap that's attached to the disc including the cover, manual (Is there a manual?) and the disc itself?
Say it does get popular.
Wouldn't that in theory just produce more fans that would pirate the games anyway?
How well would they score with review sites?
Are annoying fans going to keep ZUN from making TH13?

/wants to see DS on WiiWare

Maybe, you think, that the series is probably better off not being marketed blindly to a mass of people who more than likely can't stand watching pretty death hail from above? Or, aren't interested? I've met plenty of people who just don't like the games.

[/spiel]


Letty Whiterock

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2010, 05:17:05 PM »
Hell, if anything, it might improve the fanbase. More doujin artists and musicians competing with each other is a good thing, and would probably raise the overall quality of fan works. More "hurr durr" fans would just blend into the background noise.
To be honest, we really need less Touhou-based doujin works. The market is flooded, and having 897326453245 remixes of Necrofantasia is exhausting. Don't get me wrong. I like the stuff, but there is just too much out there.

Tengukami

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2010, 05:33:55 PM »
To be honest, we really need less Touhou-based doujin works. The market is flooded, and having 897326453245 remixes of Necrofantasia is exhausting. Don't get me wrong. I like the stuff, but there is just too much out there.

That's an interesting take, although one I don't understand. It might be exhausting having to sift through more and more doujin works, but at the same time, artistic competition tends to raise the overall quality. As one example: rock and roll. In the early days (late 40s early 50s), there were a handful of acts and they all sounded pretty much the same. As it got more popular, the style innovated tremendously. Granted, there's a pretty overwhelming number of rock acts out there, but "good" bands now are leaps and bounds ahead of "good" bands back in the so-called good ol' days. This is for the most part due to rock 'n' roll losing its underground status and becoming more socially acceptable.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Myschi

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2010, 06:14:48 PM »
It's funny, I was thinking about pestering ZUN about this after I go to college.
On a typical service, let's say, the PSN, the X-Blah, and the WSC, how much would this cost anyway?
How would fans get the extra crap that's attached to the disc including the cover, manual (Is there a manual?) and the disc itself?
Say it does get popular.
Wouldn't that in theory just produce more fans that would pirate the games anyway?
How well would they score with review sites?
Are annoying fans going to keep ZUN from making TH13?

/wants to see DS on WiiWare

Maybe, you think, that the series is probably better off not being marketed blindly to a mass of people who more than likely can't stand watching pretty death hail from above? Or, aren't interested? I've met plenty of people who just don't like the games.

[/spiel]

Why after college, if you don't mind me asking?

Also, replying to the bits in order for simplicity...

Cost: That's... that's a good question. The physical copies are, what, like... 20 bucks (outside of shipping etc)? I could see (roughly) 10-15 US dollars, depending on the service. I mean, all ZUN (or whoever) would have to do is upload it once, right? Maybe give a small chunk of the cash to whoever's doing the service.

Physical Stuff: I know that the manual's included (kinda) in WiiWare releases. I could see them including the extra stuff (profiles, lil' backstory, etc) like that, too. Unfortunately, the rest'd likely be unobtainable if it was through a download service, since that's kinda the tradeoff for convenience.

Piracy: I agree with the idea of 'people will pirate it less because it's more available'. If you can't find the game (and have been looking), you're going to pirate it even if you /do/ have the cash/will to buy it.

Reviews: ... I honestly have no clue on that one.

TH13: We can certainly hope not. :ohdear:

Savory

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2010, 07:04:17 PM »
As long as you have to pay for it, this is never going to happen.

That's why I added that "maybe".

Didn't he also mention something about the fact that he didn't want it to get too popular that it'll get out of hand for him to control the doujin community on his series?

I think it's too late for that.


Gpop

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2010, 07:20:00 PM »
By popularity I mean he doesn't want to INTENTIONALLY make the games more popular. He just want to make the games the way he wants it to be that HE'LL be satisfied with. I'm sure he's not looking for profit from the series himself.

Savory

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2010, 07:29:36 PM »
By popularity I mean he doesn't want to INTENTIONALLY make the games more popular. He just want to make the games the way he wants it to be that HE'LL be satisfied with. I'm sure he's not looking for profit from the series himself.

Even then, the fact remains that the series is popular.

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2010, 07:57:53 PM »
To be honest, we really need less Touhou-based doujin works. The market is flooded, and having 897326453245 remixes of Necrofantasia is exhausting. Don't get me wrong. I like the stuff, but there is just too much out there.

We need some sort of database that allows us to rate and review doujin music.
Let me back into CPMC :|

Gpop

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2010, 07:59:27 PM »
Even then, the fact remains that the series is popular.

Actually I think the series is only popular to certain groups of people. Within most of the anime/online communities it is popular, heck even within the rhythm community as the arrangements are really good to work with. It's also very popular within the doujin communities, unsurprisingly. But it's popularity OUTSIDE of these groups isn't all that big. I think someone mentioned that Touhou over in Japan outside of these communities is about the same as here =/.

Although I may be very wrong, but I'm sure I heard it from someone in Japan. I think it was my friend who lives in Japan himself.

Tengukami

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2010, 08:37:03 PM »
Although I may be very wrong, but I'm sure I heard it from someone in Japan. I think it was my friend who lives in Japan himself.

No, you are your friend are right. Us Touhou fans live in this echo chamber, where we think Touhou must be hugely popular in Japan, cherry-picking instances where it's referenced in other media. The fact is, yes, Reiteisai gets fine attendance, and Touhou has a large share of the doujin market, but overall, it's really not that popular.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Letty Whiterock

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2010, 08:58:59 PM »
That's an interesting take, although one I don't understand. It might be exhausting having to sift through more and more doujin works, but at the same time, artistic competition tends to raise the overall quality. As one example: rock and roll. In the early days (late 40s early 50s), there were a handful of acts and they all sounded pretty much the same. As it got more popular, the style innovated tremendously. Granted, there's a pretty overwhelming number of rock acts out there, but "good" bands now are leaps and bounds ahead of "good" bands back in the so-called good ol' days. This is for the most part due to rock 'n' roll losing its underground status and becoming more socially acceptable.

It's hard to have artistic competition from a musical standpoint when most good works are overshadowed by the okay ones with flash videos to accompany them. That aside, it honestly seems that you can pretty much throw whatever you want out there, whether it's good or not, and people will eat it up if it has the Touhou name on it. A number of doujin circles, even the ones that are established and have evolved as artists, still tend to release mediocre works and will still, no doubt, profit from it, just because Touhou is involved somehow. There are dozens upon dozens of circles involved in the "competition", and I'm really not seeing an increase in the overall quality, especially not while groups like Innocent Key are allowed to exist, remain terrible, and still keep one of the bigger circle fanbases.

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2010, 09:07:03 PM »
It's hard to have artistic competition from a musical standpoint when most good works are overshadowed by the okay ones with flash videos to accompany them. That aside, it honestly seems that you can pretty much throw whatever you want out there, whether it's good or not, and people will eat it up if it has the Touhou name on it. A number of doujin circles, even the ones that are established and have evolved as artists, still tend to release mediocre works and will still, no doubt, profit from it, just because Touhou is involved somehow. There are dozens upon dozens of circles involved in the "competition", and I'm really not seeing an increase in the overall quality, especially not while groups like Innocent Key are allowed to exist, remain terrible, and still keep one of the bigger circle fanbases.

Quality is all relative,and I think being judgmental like that is counter to the "point" of doujin. I mean, it's supposed to allow those who normally wouldn't be able to share their talent an outlet, without fear of critical pressure. There are good groups; there are bad groups, we can agree on that, but to say they should not be allowed to exist is a bit far. The great thing about doujin is that there isn't any competition, so that bad groups can continue being bad and good groups can keep going without succumbing to the wishes of the fanbase.
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Ghaleon

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2010, 09:07:18 PM »
I too feel that the vast majority of the Touhou arrange circles are not worth my time listening to. But I don't really think an overall increase in the number of fans is going to make the amount of time involved hunting good circles out of the bad ones any longer. It's just as hard to get a prize from 100 draws as it is to get 1 of 10 from 1000 draws. That too is totally disregarding the whole competition = improvement thing.

Letty Whiterock

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2010, 09:17:19 PM »
Indeed, but that's not entirely the point of this thread. As a continuation of the discussion:

If Touhou was to appear as a downloadable game on a console, what console would have the best and worst controls for each one? After all, some people are keyboard-only players, and some feel comfortable with different types of controllers. Also, TOUHOU FOR THE KINECT. DISCUSS.

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2010, 09:19:56 PM »
Indeed, but that's not entirely the point of this thread. As a continuation of the discussion:

If Touhou was to appear as a downloadable game on a console, what console would have the best and worst controls for each one? After all, some people are keyboard-only players, and some feel comfortable with different types of controllers. Also, TOUHOU FOR THE KINECT. DISCUSS.

I'd love to see touhou played with a wiimote.
Let me back into CPMC :|

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2010, 09:25:39 PM »
ZUN never wanted the games to be introduced to the west. He wanted the games to completely local in Japan.

Savory

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2010, 09:43:53 PM »
ZUN never wanted the games to be introduced to the west. He wanted the games to completely local in Japan.

Then the internet came along.

Drake

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2010, 10:14:40 PM »
ZUN never wanted the games to be introduced to the west. He wanted the games to completely local in Japan.
Source it. He never expected the series to become popular in the first place; you can't say that he "didn't want" some group of people not to get the games. Touhou was never "introduced" to the West, so there's not even a reason for him to say that in the first place. It's just hogwash. Also, again, that's not what we're talking about.

Quote from: Ubiquitial
Quality is all relative,and I think being judgmental like that is counter to the "point" of doujin. I mean, it's supposed to allow those who normally wouldn't be able to share their talent an outlet, without fear of critical pressure.
Quote from: Ubiquitial
We need some sort of database that allows us to rate and review doujin music.
okay i believe you

I agree with what Letty's saying. There is no effective way for there ever to be influential artistic competition when the music becomes popular for reasons other than the music itself. Instead, the reason music gets popular is by its medium and accompaniments. The rock and roll analogy doesn't really work as well because music videos never really played a hugely important part in people liking the music, and this day in age current rock bands have yet again reverted back to everything sounding the same, yet most of the popularity still holds with the 60-80s bands that were popular back then as well. It just doesn't fit.

What you could instead use is the connection between pop songs and publicity. Justin Bieber, Hannah Montana, Jonas Brothers etc. These are the IoSYS and Innocent Key and Cool&Create of the pop world today (not necessarily in that order). How many people get into it from factors outside of the music? You could argue that Bieber can actually sing (because he can), his music is just bad and most of his fans are there because he's pretty and boomed on Youtube. Montana and Jonas both spawned from Disney so popularity is basically handed to them on a silver platter. There's little to no correlation between the quality of their music and their popularity. You go ahead and tell me that other bands can still "artistically compete" with the likes of these. There is no competition.

Doujin manga on the other hand doesn't have this huge distinction, so it isn't affected nearly as much as the doujin music community is; popularity is just idly based on material quality and word of mouth.

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Tengukami

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2010, 10:26:33 PM »
I think it's pretty bizarre to contend that "if it has Touhou slapped on it, people will love it". I can think of a million examples of that not being the case.

Overall, the quality of art increases with competition. That there is a lack of a strong arena for said competition might be the case, but doujin art doesn't exist in some bubble where the laws of dynamics just don't apply.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

チソウ タイゼン

  • tarzan cheetos
  • you'll thank me for the cropping later
Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2010, 10:27:38 PM »
Also, TOUHOU FOR THE KINECT. DISCUSS.

Swing your arms left to go left
Swing your arms right to go right
Jump to move up
Duck to move down
Pelvic thrust to bomb

PROBLEM SOLVED


Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2010, 10:30:09 PM »
ZUN never wanted the games to be introduced to the west. He wanted the games to completely local in Japan.

Go figure why the menus are in English then.

チソウ タイゼン

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  • you'll thank me for the cropping later
Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2010, 10:32:54 PM »
Go figure why the menus are in English then.

Isn't the basic English vocab used in game menus standard to like 70% of Japan anyway?
And isn't it easier that way?


Myschi

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2010, 10:41:29 PM »
Either that, or just a case of gratuitous English.

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2010, 10:56:30 PM »
Isn't the basic English vocab used in game menus standard to like 70% of Japan anyway?
And isn't it easier that way?

ZUN has been overlaying english translations of the in-game menus over the japanese characters since PCB, which I doubt he does for stylistic reasons.

This is seriously the last thing one would do if they were trying to prevent something from being introduced to western audiences.

Iryan

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Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2010, 10:58:56 PM »
ZUN has been overlaying english translations of the in-game menus over the japanese characters since PCB, which I doubt he does for stylistic reasons.

This is seriously the last thing one would do if they were trying to prevent something from being introduced to western audiences.
Still, from what I gather, the Japanese put English (and to a lesser extend German) everywhere without much of a reason beyond "english sounds/looks cool".
Old Danmakufu stuff can be found here!

"As the size of an explosion increases, the numbers of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero."

Gpop

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  • FIRST PLACE BAYBEE!
Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2010, 12:00:56 AM »
Swing your arms left to go left
Swing your arms right to go right
Jump to move up
Duck to move down
Pelvic thrust to bomb

PROBLEM SOLVED

Brilliant!

Matsuri

Re: Downloading Touhou Games
« Reply #59 on: November 19, 2010, 12:42:19 AM »
Hmm. Even if they were legally downloadable in whatever way, I really doubt I'd get them in that way. I'm the kind of person who prefers hard copies to digital copies of stuff. Call me a collector, I suppose. :/

I think it's right to say, however, that making it more easy to obtain legitimately would do away with some piracy. Not entirely, but still, any reduction is better than none.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 12:45:13 AM by Anthy Himematsy »