Author Topic: The Enchanted Diary  (Read 21693 times)

Dorian White

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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2010, 10:30:04 PM »
I kind of expected that Entry 170 is about Dream Pill, but that's probably just me always expecting the worst.
Nonetheless an really amazing work, can't tell the last time I was so riveted by a story.
Bella gerant alii, tu felix Gensokyo nube. Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.

Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2010, 10:39:08 PM »
The ending doesn't really work with me either, mostly because how sheerly convenient everything was. Alice was correct about Reimu being self centered, Marisa finally realizing that, Marisa arriving at the exact moment that Alice was going to kill herself, and everything ending all happy like... It's very jarring, doesn't really seem to fit, and it uses Reimu as a scapegoat while exonerating Marisa. Plus, Alice using the knife to slash her throat as her method of suicide doesn't seem to fit: it's a very messy way to die, which seems to completely run up against the fact that she made sure that everything was neat and clean, and it's very hard to be saved from, which I think that Alice really does want to be saved. Alice overdosing on Eirin's shady drug seems to fit better, since it seemed like you were foreshadowing it anyways, and, since it IS Eirin's shady drug, it's possible that taking too much of it wouldn't kill Alice, giving Marisa a less Sanae-sanctioned window of opportunity.

AMZYoshio

  • Transcend the edge of Dissillusion
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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2010, 11:33:27 PM »
I'm big on subtle hints, and hoping people know a lot about the subject at hand already, because I hate explaining myself.

Eirin is a medical genius, whatever she makes can't really be deadly unless it was intended to be, or at least has some sort of extreme curing ability, such as stopping profuse vomiting. The amount of pills that Alice would have had to take to destroy herself would be akin to just choking on anything, really. The worst that would probably happen is that she would get brain damage from over-activity in the night, which wouldn't kill her, but leave her worse off. The pills were kinda just thrown in there to link this to cannon, as well as give Alice more depression.

Reimu IS a self centered jerk, honestly, and if you were to think about it, Marisa and Reimu fight a LOT. They're friends, sure, but Reimu gets mad at Marisa's shenanigans almost daily, and that could only lead to strife. Their relationship would be akin to loving a bipolar person - They're good one minute, and bitching you out the next. Marisa isn't the kind of person that would put up with somebody who is honestly mad at them every other day, not just a Tsundere mad in which the anger goes away quickly with the right amount of apologizing and/or love. I personally don't see Reimu as being big on the whole love-love thing, she's too concerned with other matters to deal with that kind of thing. Realize that she takes incidents very seriously compared to Marisa, and is probably extremely stressed all the time, always wary of who or what could betray her and Gensokyo next.

You also have to remember that this is Alice's diary, and therefore it's Alice's thoughts. That doesn't mean that everything that is written here is complete fact - it's actually quite skewed, most likely. What REALLY happens in a day is kind of up to the reader, but I guess I could make up a better back story if people REALLY want it. But the point of explaining this is to show how Alice is not thinking rationally. Put it this way: If you were as depressed as Alice for such a long period of time, and it got worse and worse every day, how long could you keep your sanity?

I personally don't think the ending was rushed - Alice's fit of depression started on entry 81, almost 3 months before the ending. Entry 117, which is 52 days before the end, only complicated things. It hit her harder in Entry 137, 32 days before the end. So for 52 days, she just slipped farther and farther down the hole, after subconsciously slipping for 36 days beforehand. That's nearly 3 months of constant and utter rage, depression, confusion, and whatnot. The only *rushed* part about it is how Alice decided to stop writing about things a few days before she decided to follow through with her plans of suicide, thus making the story look shorter, but in reality, it took her about a week. If you look at each post I made as a different "chapter", then maybe it's slightly rushed, but really it's one timeline, and the eventual outcome was setting itsself up since Marisa told her that she doesn't love her.

As for Marisa coming in at -just- the right moment, stories are great like that. This is Gensokyo - blame it on fate, magic, whatever.

I feel like an english teacher. >> (Also, this post isn't to say "screw you" to anybody who commented on the ending feeling rushed, it was to clarify things. I thank you all for reading this, and if enough begging ensues, I was kinda serious about writing a less Alice-biased timeline. (Of course, it would be much shorter, and only focus on key events.))
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 11:35:59 PM by AMZYoshio »

Ryuu

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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2010, 11:53:42 PM »
I don't think that the ending is rushed, just that it came out of nowhere. there was no real buildup, it was just "hey suddenly suicide and OH WAIT GOOD END". I mean yeah, 162 was probably supposed to show that alice was going to kill herself, but to the reader, she's talked about killing herself so many times already that it doesn't stick out.



Reimu IS a self centered jerk, honestly

your reimu is a self-centered jerk. for those of us who interpret reimu as less of a jerk, the spousal abuse and the surprise breakup came kinda out of left field. not saying having a jerk reimu is bad, but to the readers there was almost no implication to her being a jerk. imo the reimu scenes made her seem more aloof and distant than a wife-beater

http://ryuukyunplaysstuff.tumblr.com/ read about me playing league i guess

AMZYoshio

  • Transcend the edge of Dissillusion
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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2010, 12:08:39 AM »
imo the reimu scenes made her seem more aloof and distant than a wife-beater

Eh, I wasn't going for wife beater either, more like someone who probably has trust issues, and is a bit volatile. Note about how Alice was commenting on how she never saw Reimu as one for relationships, and how she and Marisa got into fights a lot.

I guess all I'm trying to say about this story is one of two things: 1) A lot if implying has to be done, as well as taking extremely subtle hints, or 2) I shoulda explained more.

I dunno, this is my first story, so gimme credit. =D

Ryuu

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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2010, 12:32:18 AM »
no, it was a good story, I'm just pointing out the areas I thought were a bit off

constructive criticism man

though the biggest thing I'm seeing is that some of your subtle hints rely on your perception of a certain character, but since this is gensokyo, no two people see the same character in the same way so messages can get lost in translation so to speak. when you write in the future, you might want to keep in mind is that if something is reliant on your perception of a character, it might be good to find ways to express that in the story so the reader has a good idea of how you see the character and what they can expect from them

I mean yeah, it's kind of hard to do that from a diary perspective, but it's just general advice :V

http://ryuukyunplaysstuff.tumblr.com/ read about me playing league i guess

Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2010, 01:39:30 AM »
I almost feel like that good end belongs to another story...

Maybe just slow it down it bit? Its not the traditional Dramatic Entry, but having Alice get over her depression on her own, then find out that Marisa and Reimu have broken up. 

Then have a whole fight with herself..

err sorry didn't mean to start plotting it out for you, but do you see what I mean?

(though I am probably crap at giving advice.)
I have...a terrible need...shall I say the word?...of religion. Then I go out at night and paint the stars.

Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2010, 02:23:07 AM »
One of the problems here, then, is that the hints that you were giving were either too subtle, or vague enough that it could be constructed in a way completely opposite of what you intended.

For example, I saw Marisa as being the bigger jerk than Reimu in this story, concerning Alice. First, we have the part where Alice is planning on confessing to Marisa at the party, only for Marisa to write that message in her diary. Then, despite trying to weedle information out of Alice out of why she loved Marisa, she decided to give Alice the run around about her crush on Reimu until Alice walked in on them. That, compared to Reimu's blase attitude towards everything, made her out to be more "villainous" than Reimu did (and really, I bet that EVERYONE has wanted to smack Marisa at least once).

Also, in an almost hypocritical fashion, I was wondering why the hell Marisa hadn't snuck a peek at Alice's diary again: it might've resolved some issues earlier.

Anyways, while we're on the subject, correct me if I'm wrong: Marisa and Reimu weren't going out until after Alice planned on confessing to Marisa, right? If they were already going out, then, yeah, that really would have been an ass move by Reimu, giving her bad advice.

Despite my criticisms, however, I really enjoyed reading this story; if this was your first attempt at writing fiction, then I'm pretty damned impressed. Ending a story always seems to be the toughest part (you hear that, Obsidian?).

Ryuu

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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2010, 02:25:43 AM »
(and really, I bet that EVERYONE has wanted to smack Marisa at least once).

as someone who's been in marisa's position in the past, I have no problem with how she handled things and I think she handled it pretty well for the most part

http://ryuukyunplaysstuff.tumblr.com/ read about me playing league i guess

Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2010, 02:27:31 AM »
as someone who's been in marisa's position in the past, I have no problem with how she handled things and I think she handled it pretty well for the most part
I didn't mean smack her for how she handled the situation concerning Alice, I just meant smacking her in general.

Ryuu

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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2010, 02:28:56 AM »
I didn't mean smack her for how she handled the situation concerning Alice, I just meant smacking her in general.

I have never wanted to smack Marisa

http://ryuukyunplaysstuff.tumblr.com/ read about me playing league i guess

AMZYoshio

  • Transcend the edge of Dissillusion
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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2010, 02:30:05 AM »
I have never wanted to smack Marisa

Never played Imperishable Night against her then? *bricked*

But yeah. I guess the ending proves that I'm not much of a writer, and I'm more of a math nerd, like I've always been. :V

Ryuu

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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2010, 02:33:14 AM »
Never played Imperishable Night against her then? *bricked*

well yeah, of course I have. I'd much rather smack reimu's balls

Quote
But yeah. I guess the ending proves that I'm not much of a writer, and I'm more of a math nerd, like I've always been. :V

oh please. you did fine, especially for your first time

http://ryuukyunplaysstuff.tumblr.com/ read about me playing league i guess

Luneth

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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2010, 03:44:01 AM »
But yeah. I guess the ending proves that I'm not much of a writer, and I'm more of a math nerd, like I've always been. :V
No, not comparing you to complete experts, you're awesome. XD You're waaay better than me, anyways. I think it's fairer to put it that way. I understood all of it though, and I don't have much criticism, so either a new story, back story or continuation is fine with me.
That was fun to read.  :V

Blackraptor

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Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2010, 11:47:31 AM »
But yeah. I guess the ending proves that I'm not much of a writer, and I'm more of a math nerd, like I've always been. :V

No one ever said that you weren't a good writer. Everything else leading up to the ending was great. It just needed a bit more buildup to make Marisa's sudden confession of love to Alice more believable.

Best advice I can give: Keep Writing. You'll get better as you keep going.

Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2010, 12:41:40 AM »
But yeah. I guess the ending proves that I'm not much of a writer, and I'm more of a math nerd, like I've always been. :V

Nah, this is just part of the process.  You wouldn't give up at a math problem just because you realized you drooped a minus sign in step 4, and an exponent at the end.

Keep going!
I have...a terrible need...shall I say the word?...of religion. Then I go out at night and paint the stars.

AMZYoshio

  • Transcend the edge of Dissillusion
  • WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2010, 12:59:42 AM »
You wouldn't give up at a math problem just because you realized you drooped a minus sign in step 4, and an exponent at the end.

I'm in AP Calculus BC. Of course I would, AP kids are lazy. :3

Re: The Enchanted Diary
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2010, 03:49:18 AM »
We'll beat that laziness out of you! :P
I have...a terrible need...shall I say the word?...of religion. Then I go out at night and paint the stars.