Author Topic: Touhou SRPG - Story of a Lost Sky [Update 1/22/11 - Version 0.6.0] (Thread 3)  (Read 149167 times)

RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 7/3/09 - Version 0.3.1] (Thread 3)
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2009, 04:00:37 AM »
Back on track after that last crisis.

Content wise, a few more lines have been added to the end of CH2ST2. When writing for this demo, I cut it off before the part where it alluded to Asa's disappearance since that mission isn't in here yet.



0.4.0 is currently in beta stage. Betas are here:
Downloads: (Source) http://bit.ly/pN4IY ; (Windows Executable) http://bit.ly/zhaKE

There's a bug regarding spirit charge that will be fixed in 0.4.1 since it requires a deep fix in the battle system. Details are posted in this Issue Report

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 7/3/09 - Version 0.3.1] (Thread 3)
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2009, 10:11:09 PM »


Redoing Youmu right now, trying to get back into things.  Gonna change the last frame probably.  The first 3 frames are going to be the intro to all the other ones.  Damn this is harder than I remember.

RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 7/3/09 - Version 0.3.1] (Thread 3)
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2009, 12:22:51 AM »
That's a nice improvement over the current Youmu animation! Good job so far!

I've updated the bitbucket wiki in anticipation of a final release of 0.4.0 in the next couple days.

1.0.0 is here (2/13/14) |  My Twitter | My Tumblr

RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 7/3/09 - Version 0.3.1] (Thread 3)
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2009, 02:17:08 AM »
0.4.0 is here!

Bitbucket Page:
http://bitbucket.org/featheredmelody/lost-sky-project-public/wiki/Home



From the bitbucket page:

What are the major changes in the latest version?
Upgraded to Pygame 1.9.1
New Story Scenes: CH1ST4 (Onward to the Village) and CH2ST2 (The Two Historians)
New Mission: CH2ST1 (A Barrier of History)
Status Effects: These are displayed in CH2ST1. Incorporated at the moment are Poison, Stun, and Spirit Drain
Spell Synthesis: Still a little experimental and barebones. Only two crystal combination that works is Water+Water which gives a powerful healing spell
Health Meters for when battle animations are turned off.
Character Portraits are now displayed when someone is speaking

Changelog since last time:

Quote

# 8/18/09 - v0.4.0 Final
- [Bugfix] Crash when all traits have been learned
- [Bugfix] On unit deployment unit selection screen, stats were being plotted twice on top of itself
- [Bugfix] On unit deployment unit placement screen, unit sprites were drawn on top of cursor instead of under
- [Bugfix][Issue #22] Added in maps for CH2ST1, CH2ST2 which weren't in the repository causing a file not found error
- [Bugfix][Issue #19] Crash when attempting to load Unit Stats page with player character having no spell equipped

# 8/16/09
- Typo fix on CH2ST1 / Resized Reimu's portrait to proper size
- Updated the portraits to latest Create.swf images for: Reimu, Marisa, Alice, Chen, Ran
- Added new portraits for locations: Bamboo Forest, Hakugyoukurou, Hakurei Shrine
- [Bugfix] Fixed the places where Z works but Enter does not

# 8/15/09 - v0.4.0 Beta
- Updated the readme
- Added C-key skipping to worldmap tutorial dialog and future Say calls on the world map
- Finished up through the end of Aya's scene in CH2ST2
- [Issue #10] Tweaked position and size of text in save confirm menu as per suggestions in
- [Issue #11] Battle map no longer centers on first unit in the list of enemies at the start of the enemy turn
- [Bugfix][Issue #12] Trait details not refreshing when a trait is bought from trait learning system
- [Bugfix][Issue #14] Crash when attempting to examine non existent spell recipe
- [Bugfix][Issue #15] Crash when canceling from Spell Synth system with an item selected

# 8/14/09 - v0.4.0 Alpha
- Changed version numbers to 0.4.0 and saved it as a variable in engine
- Removed AD5B's splash image from splash screen
- Fixed Akyu's name to Akyu instead of Akyuu in the hints page
- Added some more hints to the hint page
- Changed CH1ST2 treasure to a Wooden Statue for trading
- Added Broken Lantern to rewards of CH1ST3
- Poison Dust now counterattacks
- [Bugfix] Fixed cursor keys frame reset to 6 triggering every 9 frames instead of every 9 frames if an arrow key was being held down
- [Bugfix] Fixed treasure descriptions flowing over edge of screen
- [Bugfix] Wrong treasure ID in CH1ST3
- [Bugfix] Crash when executing the last trade in a list of trades

# 8/11/09
- Moved duplicated code in battle system / battle system no anim into functions
- Added HP meters to no animation events.
- Portrait images for locations and regions. Reorganized how the text is displayed

# 8/10/09
- Added Aya sprite and portrait
- Fixed Keine and Mokou's battle image
- [Bugfix] NPCs circle color corrected when they are moving

# 8/8/09
- Created CH2ST2 Map and mission data

# 8/7/09
- More work on CH2ST1 (rough draft version of this mission done)
- Added Clear All Enemies sub action that clears out all enemies except required units.
- Extended startle jump to 15 frames
- Added two treasures to CH1ST3 as mission rewards
- [Bugfix] - Crash when entering a mission prologue when required unit is not already deployed
- [Bugfix] - Crash when attempting to call a MAE sub action to move a unit to its current position

# 8/6/09
- Added a poison dust spell. Removed test spell
- Added enemies to CH2ST1

# 8/5/09
- Added Rinnosuke, Akyu, Keine portraits
- Added Rinnosuke portraits to CH1ST4
- Added start of CH2ST1

# 8/4/09
- Added portraits to conversations in  Prologue -> CH1ST4
- Human village region unlocked after CH1ST4

# 8/3/09
- Added portrait display support to battle map conversations
- Changed the colors on terrain tileset to Jamuko's fixes
- Upgraded to Pygame 1.9.0

# 7/30/09
- Load in of terrain is a convert alpha
- New Terrain tiles

# 7/28/09
- [Bugfix] Spirit Drain status effect updates unit's high / low spirit status
- Added display of current status effects
- Added map "heartbeat" counter for animations that ticks over 120 frames.
- Added status effect icon image

# 7/27/09
- New portrait image for Youmu
- Added CH1ST4 map (Reimu joins you)
- New character type - npc has been added. Rinnosuke is one in CH1St4.
- Added Exorcism Tag and Medicinal Drop to cure Spirit Drain / Poison
- Added status_effects property to healing spells/items
- Added cure status effects code to above spells
- Enabled using healing spell on full HP unit if the item has cure status effect properties

# 7/25/09
- Added processing of prohibited landmark locations when landmark is added to a map
- Added passable tag to landmarks XML

# 7/23/09
- Added status effects info to XML and spell code
- Added inflicting of status effects to battles
- [Cleanup] Proper Docstrings for remainder of code

# 7/22/09
- Added Akyu, Keine, Mokou, Rinnosuke sprites
- [Cleanup] Old style function comments -> Proper Docstrings: Objectives.py

# 7/21/09
- Started groundwork on status effects
- Created Poison, Stun, Status Effects
- Added basic execution of status effects to map checking for recovery and doing the action
- Added a dictionary to track status effects (Reset at the end of each mission)
- CH0ST1 - status effect testing
- [Testing Only] Changed the Death icon display if a unit has a status effect -> TODO: Separate status effect icons for each type
- [Cleanup] Cleaned up the imports to not use from X import * in engine

# 7/16/09
- Recipes finally working
- Changed execute creation to check creation
- Split up get recipe data to "get recipe data" which fetches one and "get all recipe data" which fetches all available ones
- Recipe no longer stores its ingredients key (Synth water, synth water). It's never used anywhere and is redundant to the dict
- Recipe data display shows how much of the required ingredient is required and available.

# 7/15/09
- Moved draw spell data for a spell not already created from trading engine to engine object
- Known recipes list is auto-sorted each time a new recipe is added
- Added a recipes menu to display known recipes

# 7/14/09
- [Bugfix] Crash upon loading save data saved immediately before any map was loaded. (UnitData not initialized with trait points info)
- [Save Data Change!] Added a list of known spell synth recipes to save-data
- Added a second dict to the engine to access spell recipes by name

# 7/13/09
- [Bugfix] Treasure was duplicating in spell synth ingredient select screen.
- Added spell result screen

# 7/12/09
- Spell Synthesis System proof of concept

# 7/11/09
- Created Spell Synthesis class
- Added spell recipes xml data
- Changed Air element to Wood element to remain consistent with the elemental system
- Split off Healing Light into Healing Drop (lv.1) and Healing Light (lv.2)
- Reduced all basic spells to only have 30 uses.

# 7/9/09
- Added Minor Battle Theme to the music list
- Changed CH1ST1 Battle to Minor Battle Theme
- [Issue #7] Worldmap now knows what direction you came from to drop you to the appropriate location when you enter a region
- There is no longer a distinction in the XML between entrances and exits

Thanks to all the Feathered Melody Staff as well as everyone who helped out with testing and advising.

1.0.0 is here (2/13/14) |  My Twitter | My Tumblr

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2009, 01:58:05 PM »


EDIT:



Fixed the Physical attack frames
Added Magic attack frames
Working on Damaged frames
Might consider doing block/guard frames, since evading an attack or guarding against it can be the same animation.

After that, I'll colour them in and consider Youmu finished.

EDIT:  Since the blocking out part is done, any thoughts on the animations so far?  I have to refine them still, but while things are still rough, more frames for certain animations?  Less frames?  Uhh, different looks? 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 09:51:09 PM by Elcura »

RuneDevros

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    • Lost Sky Project
Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2009, 01:49:21 AM »
All the animations are really well done! I definitely like the slicing motion of Physical Attack Youmu. A few comments on how they could be improved: Could you make it so the damage image get transitioned into from a neutral stance like the other three? The block/evade seems a little unnatural however. I think it's because the sword is held too perpendicular to the ground and maybe it could be placed slightly slanted back towards her.


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kregon

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2009, 03:02:15 AM »
Seconded on everything Fawkes said.  Excellent animations :>.  However, a few more detailed thoughts on each.

I really like both the physical and magic attacks.  Both of them look natural and have enough frames to make them look fluid without having the animations drawn out.

The parry animation looks rather... forced?  I see that the sword would have to change hands from neutral stance if the spirte parries while staying facing the same way so there's no way around that, but it also looks a little unnatural in that she holds the sword completely perpendicular to the ground from the start.  The animation seems a little drawn out as well, as in too many frames getting the sword to the front... maybe cut back on the number?  Just seems that someone who's parrying an incoming attack should be a little quicker on getting the sword out in front.  Maybe try something where she reaches back with the front arm, grabs the hilt and brings the sword right to the front, at an angle, with the rear hand on the back of the sword that she angles back after getting the sword in front.  Might be asking a little much to do that while cutting the frames down

No idea if this kind of parry would make much sense but it's just an idea to toy with. None the less, great job!

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2009, 02:28:20 PM »
Alright, taking the lack of enthusiam about the guard animation, I redid it.  I might change the transition frame to something less "flashy", but overall I like it a lot more than the previous one.  Last but not least is the damaged animation. 



Fawkes:  I don't think going into the whole transition for the damaged frame is a good idea, it would look like she's preparing to get hit rather than suddenly taking a blow.  On the bright side, only the first frame (initial pose) is used.  Regardless, I might do the animation over.

RuneDevros

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    • Lost Sky Project
Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2009, 05:44:34 PM »
Oh, I definitely like the new block animation. It really shows off the Youmu quickness that's a trademark of her character. Looking forward to seeing the completed version.

As to the point about the damage animation, if that is the case, then the damage animation should be fine.

==

0.4.1 Updates -

Goals listing - http://wiki.featheredmelody.com/Main_Page#Short_Term_Goal_-_Version_0.4.1

Please give any feedback you might have on the goals of this next version. I might have to revise parts I'm working on depending on how badly my schoolwork this semester goes.

Due to a problem floating point numbers and the weird way their arithmetic works, the way spirit charge will be handled got changed to using whole numbers running from 0 -> 900 instead of 0 -> 9.00.

A number of other features have been added including the option to quit in the middle of a mission and return to the world map and something for the testers which is the ability to record all the print output to a text file. (Call "python srpg.py -p" to do it)

1.0.0 is here (2/13/14) |  My Twitter | My Tumblr

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2009, 05:48:23 PM »
I'll take a break from Youmu sprites for a bit and work on the original character designs some (I'll do both as I fancy, a little ADD never hurt here).  I also haven't had time to read the script yet, but I'll probably do that later on.

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2009, 09:27:13 PM »
First Asa concept.  Go nuts (and by that I mean, changes, likes, dislikes, crits etc). 


RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2009, 10:16:02 PM »
I really like the design for Asa!

- She seems like she would fit right in to the Touhou world
- What are those pink things in her hair?
- I really like the Sun / Eyes theme for her. The Eyes kind of give an ancient Egyptian feel actually.
- Maybe make the hair a slightly darker shade of blue.

1.0.0 is here (2/13/14) |  My Twitter | My Tumblr

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #72 on: August 24, 2009, 11:10:21 PM »
Thanks, those pink things are like a sash that tie around the back of the head.  I wanted to draw an eye on the back of it (like she can see behind her) but I dunno how far that would be going lol.  You can kinda see it going around her in the 3/4 head view.

Anyway, I'm refining the sprites and resizing them a little more.  Then I got to think of a strategy to colour these bastards in. 

RuneDevros

  • Professor Dr. Momoneko-sama
    • Lost Sky Project
Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2009, 11:26:33 PM »
Our animation blocks are 200x200 pixels. Will your animations be able to be compacted to that size or do you need more room?

1.0.0 is here (2/13/14) |  My Twitter | My Tumblr

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2009, 11:44:16 PM »
Oh, I figured 200x200 was too big (and it is) for characters.  I was going to resize them to be 100x??? size instead.  Since the larger sizes could be reserved for enemies and the last boss in uber cool background wing thing mode.  Besides that, I drew Youmu at around 200x200 px anyway.

RuneDevros

  • Professor Dr. Momoneko-sama
    • Lost Sky Project
Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2009, 11:51:54 PM »
Ah gotcha. In that case we won't need any changes in the code since we can just place the smaller images into the larger frame.

1.0.0 is here (2/13/14) |  My Twitter | My Tumblr

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #76 on: August 25, 2009, 05:40:54 PM »
As usual, standard disclaimer that what I write below is my opinion, it's ultimately Elcura and Fawkes' call on what to heed and what to dismiss as too technical.


Hmm... Youmu animations... I note that for both attack animations and the guard animation, Youmu starts with one hand holding the sword somewhat diagonally outwards, then transitioning to one where she holds the sword upright with both hands, before doing the rest of her motion. That feels unnatural - a serious warrior wouldn't be relaxed on the battlefield, especially an Eastern sword martial artist of Youmu's level. I'd say have her initial pose be that "sword upright in both hands" stance. I'm sure those better versed at the sword arts could have a long argument on which of the possible neutral stances is best suited to Youmu but this one looks correct and feels right. In fact, given you've drawn that stance with her rear leg bent and her forward leg straight, it gives the impression of Youmu favouring defence over offense with such a neutral stance but I'm getting too technical now, it's fine as it is.

For the physical attack animation, is there a reason why Youmu lets go of one hand after she slashes? Or rather, it's natural if she has to move her sword that far back after the attack, but why should she swing that far back after the attack? The rest of the animation from "sword upright" to "swing sword" look fine so it's just the final frame that can be edited so the sword isn't too far away - it's unnecessary movement (doubly so as she has to bring the sword back that far to attack again in a real fight) and meaningless movement is frowned on in martial arts.

Both the magical and physical attack animations could do with a little extra speed in the actual attack. Currently it feels like Youmu is practising a new move in a dojo, not fighting in actual combat.

Guard animation... I've discussed with Fawkes on where this animation will be used. It'd be on the "no damage is taken from the enemy attack" event of combat. There is no difference between "Dodged to avoid damage" and "Parried to avoid damage". In which case, wouldn't it be more natural to graze in Touhou than to parry? Having said that, there's nothing to say some characters can't block instead of dodging.

If you choose to replace the Guard animation with a Dodge animation, then not much movement is needed - Youmu just needs to move/lean slightly backwards (either into the paper or backwards in the 2D plane we see her in) to dodge, optionally with a half-step. Again, minimal necessary movements of martial arts.

If you choose to keep the Guard animation... you'll need to discuss with Fawkes on what sorts of attacks he has in mind for the battle animations. What you have there (if you drop the initial pose and go straight from "sword upright" to "block") is a motion and pose for Youmu to block a long, continuous attack or struggle - e.g. a beam or a long stream of bullets. It's inappropriate for a single, focussed and instantaneous attack because she's directly opposing the force of the enemy attack as opposed to the more efficient method of slightly re-directing the force. Japanese swords were shaped the way they are because there wasn't much good steel around - they're forged with emphasis on efficient technique, not on brute strength as European swords were made.

So if Fawkes had the "instantaneous attacks" predominantly in mind for combat animations, then it's best to have a Parry animation instead of a Guard animation, where a single swing of the sword (probably diagonally downwards from her point of view) is more appropriate.

-----------

Now, Asa concept... It's good, I like it. I was pondering where she got such elaborate fashion from, but Touhou has never ever explained where characters get their sometimes unconventionally designed clothes so nothing wrong with that. Heck, her origin is the human village and outside people do arrive there every so often, so there's plenty of opportunity.

Is there any special meaning to the three curves we can see on her left sleeve? It's a nice extra detail to avoid having her upper garment (away from the centre where she has buttons and the brooch) be devoid of features in contrast to her exquisite skirt.

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #77 on: August 25, 2009, 06:39:45 PM »
Thanks for the crits Psi, very helpful.  I'm always hesitant to redraw entire animations, but I suppose it'll be good since the first set of stuff I do is bad and the last set of stuff I do is good.  I'd like to change that from good > great lol.  I don't mind redrawing the animation (I say that half-hearted - cause it isn't easy), surprisingly enough coming up for concepts with movement is pretty hard when giving each character a personality through movement, but I certainly can agree that Youmu is a serious type, so the lax pose she enters from may not be appropriate.

Most of the reasons I can give for most of the questions you asked is either it looked cool or was easier to draw.  I'm all up for accuracy and realism (which is partly why I'm going to redo the animations - the other part being that I wasn't happy with my technique).  Most of the frames just feel right when drawing them, but it's good to have other eyes, a few hours on the same picture can make anything look good.

As for guard vs graze, I think for the most part some could guard and others could graze.  Character's like Kaguya or Eirin don't look like they would dodge/graze out of the way, while character's like Chen would.  I put Youmu in the former category, but I think she can do both.  If the guard animation was kept as is though, you shouldn't think of it as blocking attacks just with a sword (which to be fair, isn't made out of the stuff normal swords are) but I always imagined something like a shield - like IaMP has for character blocks.

For now, it'd probably be best to stick to graze/block, I can see parry being a useful motion if a counter attack was involved.

Anyway, for now I'll redo them with emphasis on technique and position as well as speed.  I hate throwing away art, but what can you do?

As for Asa - acquiring an outfit isn't really much of a concern.  It'd be better to have something fancy than a boring human character.  There's nothing special about the curves on her sleeve as yet, but I was looking for places to spice up the outfit after drawing her skirt.  But I added too many wrinkles, and it's kinda what I'm studying at the moment so I just left them lol.

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2009, 08:01:47 PM »
Quote
Thanks for the crits Psi, very helpful.  I'm always hesitant to redraw entire animations, but I suppose it'll be good since the first set of stuff I do is bad and the last set of stuff I do is good.  I'd like to change that from good > great lol.  I don't mind redrawing the animation (I say that half-hearted - cause it isn't easy), surprisingly enough coming up for concepts with movement is pretty hard when giving each character a personality through movement, but I certainly can agree that Youmu is a serious type, so the lax pose she enters from may not be appropriate.
I was at a writing workshop yesterday where the handout material had an extract from some book on writing. It was a list of "traits of an elite writer" where oddly enough, one item was "you find yourself throwing away good stuff you drafted when you do editing". That must be what's meant by good -> great on first/last versions, lol.

Yeah, I'd have difficulty as well coming up with movements to fully express the individual personalities of every character, but Youmu's was easy for me due to some experience with both Eastern and Western sword arts. That and Fire Emblem plus various anime had a lot of dialogues where one character was commenting on the fighting movements of another.

But in general, fighting styles can be divided up into two forms: emphasis on efficiency vs emphasis on overwhelming raw ability. An example of the latter camp would be Chen - she relies on having sheer abundance of speed/strength that normal humans would never attain and she doesn't mind wasting some energy to get the job done. The two camps nicely split up into "serious and mature, possibly weaker in a direct confrontation" vs "immature and childish, overwhelmingly good strength/speed/etc" personalities. The characters can be roughly split up into these two camps and that should be good enough even if we cannot express the subtle differences between say, Youmu and Sakuya, in the way they make a single swipe.

Mind, there's a 3rd camp: the "lol I know I'll pwn you even if I'm being lazy" style. Yukari and Yuyuko would fit this camp and here the emphasis is more on lulz and detachment. Think of Suika... slowly extending her arm and the enemy sent FLYING SKY HIGH as if struck by a solid-lead train.

Quote
Most of the reasons I can give for most of the questions you asked is either it looked cool or was easier to draw.  I'm all up for accuracy and realism (which is partly why I'm going to redo the animations - the other part being that I wasn't happy with my technique).  Most of the frames just feel right when drawing them, but it's good to have other eyes, a few hours on the same picture can make anything look good.
Ah yes, Rule of Cool and Ease of Drawing are certainly worthy considerations when making these animations. If it is cool enough, it can take priority over realism. Ease of drawing is the main reason why I'm not thinking of whether Youmu is right or left handed. And yeah, I can sympathise with "it was good when I finished drafting this" - many a time I've written or thought of something which others suggest improvements on that make me think "why didn't I see this in the first place?"

Quote
As for guard vs graze, I think for the most part some could guard and others could graze.  Character's like Kaguya or Eirin don't look like they would dodge/graze out of the way, while character's like Chen would.  I put Youmu in the former category, but I think she can do both.  If the guard animation was kept as is though, you shouldn't think of it as blocking attacks just with a sword (which to be fair, isn't made out of the stuff normal swords are) but I always imagined something like a shield - like IaMP has for character blocks.
Agreed, some could guard, some could graze and some can do both so we're free to choose. Ahhhhhhhhhh, and Youmu's Guard animation is intended as a shield effect like IaMP. That intent didn't come through as is. I guess you'd have to talk with Fawkes on whether he'd overlay the "force field effect" or if you drew it into the animation.

Quote
It'd be better to have something fancy than a boring human character.  There's nothing special about the curves on her sleeve as yet, but I was looking for places to spice up the outfit after drawing her skirt.  But I added too many wrinkles, and it's kinda what I'm studying at the moment so I just left them lol.
Very true, better to have an eye-catching design than a boring anybody look unless there was a specific plot reason for it (and Asa doesn't have such a plot).

Hmm, I didn't notice the wrinkles before, which means they look natural and it's not overdone. Make sure Fawkes puts in a (simple) CG cut-in or something when Asa first appears so people get to appreciate her skirt in high resolution!

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #79 on: August 25, 2009, 11:06:31 PM »
Quote
Mind, there's a 3rd camp: the "lol I know I'll pwn you even if I'm being lazy" style. Yukari and Yuyuko would fit this camp and here the emphasis is more on lulz and detachment. Think of Suika... slowly extending her arm and the enemy sent FLYING SKY HIGH as if struck by a solid-lead train.

Ah, I never considered that type.  Probably the hardest one to do, giving the illusion of ease but the displaying the power or skill behind the attack.  That's going to suck...

Quote
I guess you'd have to talk with Fawkes on whether he'd overlay the "force field effect" or if you drew it into the animation.

Yeah, that's certainly something worth considering.  Most of the animations I do I hope would have an additional graphic overlayed to add some finesse.  Though how they do it in IaMP/SWR still boggles me, that type of animation is scary hard to do without knowledge of the engine and testing it out.  Still, further down the road.

Quote
Make sure Fawkes puts in a (simple) CG cut-in or something when Asa first appears so people get to appreciate her skirt in high resolution!

Haha, for sure!  I just have to make sure I draw a half decent picture of her first lol

Anyway, one more consideration I've been having.  You may have seen the Reimu animation tests I did earlier.  I was playing around with the idea of an idle pose.  Something I was keen on until I started doing them, then I was looking for excuses not to have them, but from a presentation standpoint, they are nice.  Also a good point to start on I suppose for the rest of the animation.  My feelings on them are - hard to do, but worth it.  I just wonder how much time would pass on average on the battle screen, I suppose I shouldn't be putting too much time into them, since you can just turn the effects off (my heart bleeds).  But would something like that be good to jazz up status screens?  Or would portraits/pictures do just as well?

I'm on the fence about them right now, but I guess I'm thinking too much.

RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #80 on: August 26, 2009, 02:35:23 AM »
Whoa a lot of information here. Thanks for the help, Psieye.

Re: Animations

- Since we have the block animation, let's do the forcefield/deflect thing.
- I think picture/portraits should be fine for statuses. At most, we can have add a walking sprite to the stats screen. Anything more I think would detract from the goal of presenting the player with useful information about the unit.
- Total time on each battle is about 7 seconds in my completely unscientific timing of the demo battle in the tutorial. I'd say 5-10 seconds isn't enough to put work into an idle animation there unless we have more time and manpower. If you weren't our only spriter, I'd be inclined to support more complex animation work.
- If you can patch up the animations and tweak the sword motions to look more natural like Psieye suggested, that'd be great.

Quote
That intent didn't come through as is. I guess you'd have to talk with Fawkes on whether he'd overlay the "force field effect" or if you drew it into the animation.

If it's limited to Youmu, it'd be easiest to just overlay it on the animation. We support alpha-channel .png stuff so semi-transparent parts of images would be completely okay. Even with many characters that potentially use the barrier field, wouldn't it be easy to create a generic forcefield and then just drop it as a new layer in Photoshop on top of your sprite animation?

Re: Asa

Asa cut in can be done since posting up images in the middle of a battle is already supported via the same things used to display the tutorial images.

Elcura, how finalized is the Asa general design? I'd like to ask KirbyM to create a low detail placeholder create.swf image for use as an in-game sprite (like what I've done with some of the characters in 0.4.0) so that we can move ahead with mission design. CH2ST3 is Asa's first appeareance and it's next on the list of missions that need to be made.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 02:47:15 AM by FawkesGarde »

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #81 on: August 26, 2009, 07:34:00 AM »
Quote
Mind, there's a 3rd camp: the "lol I know I'll pwn you even if I'm being lazy" style. Yukari and Yuyuko would fit this camp and here the emphasis is more on lulz and detachment. Think of Suika... slowly extending her arm and the enemy sent FLYING SKY HIGH as if struck by a solid-lead train.

Ah, I never considered that type.  Probably the hardest one to do, giving the illusion of ease but the displaying the power or skill behind the attack.  That's going to suck...
Hmm actually, it'd more be expressed through facial expressions than the actual movements. We can brainstorm together in words first before you make a first attempt at their animations when it's finally time to do them.

Quote
Anyway, one more consideration I've been having.  You may have seen the Reimu animation tests I did earlier.  I was playing around with the idea of an idle pose.  Something I was keen on until I started doing them, then I was looking for excuses not to have them, but from a presentation standpoint, they are nice.  Also a good point to start on I suppose for the rest of the animation.  My feelings on them are - hard to do, but worth it.  I just wonder how much time would pass on average on the battle screen, I suppose I shouldn't be putting too much time into them, since you can just turn the effects off (my heart bleeds).  But would something like that be good to jazz up status screens?  Or would portraits/pictures do just as well?

I'm on the fence about them right now, but I guess I'm thinking too much.
Ah, I see - an idle pose that's animated. Battle times are far too short for players to really notice an idle pose but I guess there might be a small fraction who notice little details. I would argue for Simple Is Best. The purpose of combat animations is to get across the point of "an attack was made, the result was X" (which players will switch off when they're trying to get through the meat of a mid-late game army as they've seen it 50,000 times by then). Idle pose animations go under 'bells & whistles' - a nice but non-essential luxury. There are a lot of characters to be animated. A static idle pose to start the other animations is probably the more prudent thing to do. Even professionals in SRPGs choose to shy away from the challenge of an animated idle pose.

The one place I can think of for an animated idle pose would be a near-cinematic long-sequence (i.e. 30 seconds or more in total length, not seen in regular combat) that's done in sprite animation. I don't know if Fawkes has any intent to use such a story device.

RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #82 on: August 26, 2009, 12:40:00 PM »
No plans to do battle sprite cutscenes. I think our battle-map based storytelling is adequate.

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #83 on: August 26, 2009, 01:11:54 PM »
Cut ins can provide enough information in terms of emotions.

If it's limited to Youmu, it'd be easiest to just overlay it on the animation. We support alpha-channel .png stuff so semi-transparent parts of images would be completely okay. Even with many characters that potentially use the barrier field, wouldn't it be easy to create a generic forcefield and then just drop it as a new layer in Photoshop on top of your sprite animation?

Sure, I was just thinking that timing would be easier if it was done by the engine rather than on the animation.  Not to say I couldn't make a seperate image for you to overlay when the time is right.

Elcura, how finalized is the Asa general design? I'd like to ask KirbyM to create a low detail placeholder create.swf image for use as an in-game sprite (like what I've done with some of the characters in 0.4.0) so that we can move ahead with mission design. CH2ST3 is Asa's first appeareance and it's next on the list of missions that need to be made.

I'll finalize the design today so you can move on.

Ok, worked on the attack a little more.  After playing with more attacks, I find that the first thing I had was the best - taking into account Psieye's suggestions.  I hope I hit it right, in anycase.
[1]

[2]

Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #84 on: August 26, 2009, 02:04:36 PM »
Ohhhh that definitely looks like Youmu movements. Given in the actual battle sequence, this animation will only be played once (instead of on loop as currently is), the speed at [1] seems better so that players don't miss it, even though [2] might be the more realistic speed. Can you reposition some of the frames so that she's moving forwards slightly as she turns her feet from facing us to facing the right? Right now it looks like she's twisting them on the ground for no reason. Then again, this is something Fawkes can code too, so you two will have to decide whether the animation or the code will have Youmu move forwards slightly as she makes the attack.

RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #85 on: August 26, 2009, 02:10:13 PM »
I like #2 as well.

Our battle animation system is set up to do that kind of thing so moving the image forward is no problem.

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #86 on: August 26, 2009, 08:58:34 PM »
Everything's moving along quite well, let's add a meager comment.

About the Asa concept: my opinion might be a bit different since I like asymmetrical designs, but I wonder if the skirt is a little too ornate.  A pattern with fewer eyes for a simpler bottom.  As for theme setting for her shirt, I wonder how much of this will make sense.  Let the mark on the left be the shielding clouds that hide the radiant light.  This signifies that even when overcome with clouds (difficulty), the sun (positivity) still shines.  If you add half of a (sun)burst on the right sleeve (or both), it could mean how most things can only be seem partially at any given moment. 
A thought in passing, how would it seem if the open eye was placed on a belt buckle that hides a little under her shirt instead of lining the skirt?  Or would the closed eye be a better fit?  Maybe I'm thinking too much again.

The sprites seem like their organized well enough so I'll move along.

An error of sorts, when swapping spell actions, if an item is "replaced" by the last object in the reserve list, there was an error.  Slotting the item into an empty space is fine though.

RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2009, 09:41:53 PM »
@Zer0

Welcome back! I haven't seen you around in a while.

For Asa, I think she's fine as she is. I'm not sure if the additional symbols would add to her design what is probably better communicated through action and dialog.

Thanks for the bug report. Just patched it. I'm surprised this hasn't been discovered before since the affected code hasn't been modified in a long time. Will be in the next release and will commit to the internal repo tonight.

As a future reference, we do have an issue tracker here for both suggestions and bug reports. It's easier for me to keep track of what's been fixed and what needs to be fixed if you use that.

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Nat Tea

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #88 on: August 27, 2009, 02:20:07 AM »
Encountered an error in Marisa's Arrival.

Ran was at 6 HP, Chen was at 27 HP, Marisa and Youmu were KO'd, and the Kodama Lord, three fairies, and a tree was left; also, the trap was triggered and I obtained the Treasure Item using Chen. I pressed A on accident and it tossed me this error.

Quote from: srpg.exe.log
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "srpg.py", line 87, in <module>
  File "core_system\engine.pyc", line 1435, in title_screen
  File "core_system\engine.pyc", line 1475, in launch_wm
  File "worldmap_system\worldmap.pyc", line 448, in navigate_loop
  File "worldmap_system\worldmap.pyc", line 400, in user_input
  File "worldmap_system\worldmap.pyc", line 1100, in navigate_loop
  File "worldmap_system\worldmap.pyc", line 1057, in user_input
  File "worldmap_system\worldmap.pyc", line 1271, in menu_loop
  File "worldmap_system\worldmap.pyc", line 1509, in execute
  File "battle_system\mapobj.pyc", line 1284, in turn_loop
  File "battle_system\mapobj.pyc", line 601, in user_input
IndexError: list index out of range
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RuneDevros

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Re: Touhou SRPG - SOALS [Update 8/19/09 - Version 0.4.0] (Thread 3)
« Reply #89 on: August 27, 2009, 02:43:59 AM »
Thanks for the report. Just fixed it in our internal repository.

The cause was due to not having the indexing checked before centering. It could end up with you centering on a nonexistent unit in the unit list and crashing.

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