Author Topic: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ  (Read 105769 times)

ebarrett

Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #600 on: July 11, 2010, 10:24:50 PM »
And don't think that the Netherlands don't do it as well.

The Netherlands are more of a KICK'EM IN THE CHEST and HACK AT THEIR ANKLES people, apparently.

Kilgamayan

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #601 on: July 11, 2010, 10:25:13 PM »
Oh, I watch them do it in the two games before this one. I know they do it, and I was really disappointed in them.

They just don't do it nearly as often, and while they did it a bit in this game, they were vastly outnumbered by the Spanish flops.

If I had my way, Germany would be awarded the championship and Uruguay would be awarded runner-up, but.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #602 on: July 11, 2010, 10:30:48 PM »
Quote
And for Paul the Octopus, I still stand by my statement that his decisions were based on the high percentage of red and yellow in the flags, making him choose Germany over everything but Spain and then Spain over Nederlands.

Paul picked Germany over Spain in Euro 2008. Obviously he was smart enough to not make that mistake again. :V

In reality his choice doesn't seem to be based on colors. Current theory is stripes are favored. Either way, I was just (easily) amused by the fact that a cephalopod could so accurately predict the run of one team over time, whatever the reason was.


As for the "who deserved to win" argument, I stand by my side that both teams played an ugly, disappointing game. Gpop is right though about flopping being everywhere, so that's a moot point really. Really needs to be cleaned up...

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ebarrett

Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #603 on: July 11, 2010, 11:03:37 PM »
I find it amusing that some people will find any reason to complain. There was little if no flopping at all in the final, how many games do you people watch every four years?

And an ugly game was to be expected - two teams terrified of losing and having to carry the "perennial loser" tag for at least another four years, plus a referee who's well known for being too soft. Plus the weird ball which moves too fast, changes direction in the air, bounces strangely, etc.

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #604 on: July 11, 2010, 11:13:40 PM »
I find it amusing that some people will find any reason to complain. There was little if no flopping at all in the final, how many games do you people watch every four years?

If there are games with more flopping than what I saw today on a regular basis I'm amazed anyone can be a fan of this sport.

In terms of international play, I can only compare this game to the others I've watched in the World Cup, and this had a good deal more diving (or straight embellishment, if you wish to debate semantics) than most of the rest of the game I've watched.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #605 on: July 11, 2010, 11:23:48 PM »
Ah, Spain won... Shame.

I find it amusing that some people will find any reason to complain. There was little if no flopping at all in the final, how many games do you people watch every four years?

there isn't as much flopping as THAT in the individual football leagues 'round the world, at least of the matches I've seen.

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #606 on: July 11, 2010, 11:51:28 PM »
Aaaaand that's the way it is. Felicidades, Espa?a.

Sadly for many non-dutch or non-spanish for very obvious reasons, the match was "eh". The third place match was incredible, why not this one? *eats a vuvuzela*
Also, rofl Holland promoting the remake of Karate Kid. :P

Lessons learned from this cup:
1. Never, ever, ever underestimate any opponent whatsoever. In wise words, "Overkill is underrated".
2. Organization breakdown = death.

And thus, this was the last BZZZZ on Earth..... or is it?

Powerup punchin'!

trancehime

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #607 on: July 11, 2010, 11:53:14 PM »
And thus, this was the last BZZZZ on Earth..... or is it?

I certainly hope that was the last of 'em, Keligis.

God I will shoot some dudes if I see them tootin's once more.

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #608 on: July 11, 2010, 11:58:58 PM »
BAD NEWS
It's not the end. Not even close.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

All my neighbors got a Vuvuzela and I just got mine today!
We got a rave going on now, and I just fed this song in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6x9IoJlGl8

=================================
I never expected Netherlands to be THIS good. I was quite surprised.

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ebarrett

Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #609 on: July 12, 2010, 12:11:32 AM »
If there are games with more flopping than what I saw today on a regular basis I'm amazed anyone can be a fan of this sport.

I imagine none of you ever played soccer, because goddamnit it looked hard staying on foot in this game. General consensus is that it was the most violent final ever, and I agree with it - you try to not roll over twice with a Van Bommel or two hacking you down. And by the end of the match Iniesta was also thowing his elbows around like someone who knew the referee wouldn't send him off anyway. That's whitout taking into account that falling after making contact while running and trying to control the ball is normal - did you ever try to keep running while stumbling over someone else's legs and trying to out-shoulder one or two guys most likely bigger than you?

In short: if you're not going to watch it for another four years, why bother with something you clearly don't understand?

(edited again, typos)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 12:18:56 AM by ebarrett »

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #610 on: July 12, 2010, 12:14:37 AM »
BAD NEWS
It's not the end. Not even close.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

All my neighbors got a Vuvuzela and I just got mine today!
We got a rave going on now, and I just fed this song in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6x9IoJlGl8

=================================
I never expected Netherlands to be THIS good. I was quite surprised.
I am not a football fan (and I am French...T_T) but I am quite happy for Spain.

Quote
We got a rave going on now, and I just fed this song in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6x9IoJlGl8
Oh, why not try this ?
Well it doesn't matter...as long as you have a good UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ moment.

that octopus is really a suspense killer, how lame.

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #611 on: July 12, 2010, 12:15:27 AM »
Who's going to Brazil for 2014?

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #612 on: July 12, 2010, 12:26:41 AM »
Who's going to Brazil for 2014?
If I can get a job in the area, maybe covering the Cup for a newspaper or magazine (yay, International Relations and Photography degrees!) I am SO there.

Kilgamayan

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #613 on: July 12, 2010, 12:28:06 AM »
Why do YOU go out there and do it yourself? Clearly you can't understand otherwise.

Also I'm going to cherrypick your words and completely leave out where you included "embellishment" with diving.

Hahahahahahaha.

Yeah, I think we're done here.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Bananamatic

Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #614 on: July 12, 2010, 12:31:41 AM »
on the plus side, we are going to get another thousand of gifs about another street fighter move in the finals

ebarrett

Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #615 on: July 12, 2010, 12:39:55 AM »
Hahahahahahaha.

Yeah, I think we're done here.

It's you who are cherrypicking your own words, but if I go on I'll end up probated/banned, so I guess I must yield to the admin and shut up, right.

I mean, you're a bunch of cool dudes and all, but y'all know shit about soccer.

Kilgamayan

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #616 on: July 12, 2010, 12:48:49 AM »
Don't let my title stop you from whatever you want to say. As long as it's within site rules, you're not going to end up punished, and there are plenty of staff members posting in this thread to make sure I don't do something I'm not supposed to.

Please do describe to me how there was very little diving and embellishment in this match, how every single love tap that sent someone to the ground like they'd been shot is perfectly fine and sporting. I'm particularly curious to hear your explanation for the yellow card David Villa's acting drew when the whistle wasn't blown for at least five seconds after the tackle happened.

Of course, I'm not going to say every foul was embellished, and I'm not going to say all of the yellow cards were undeserved. That would be stupid and indicative of someone that watched zero minutes of the game.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 12:51:20 AM by Kilgamayan »
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

ebarrett

Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #617 on: July 12, 2010, 01:43:14 AM »
What I do detect is the anti-soccer bias which the rest of the world has unfortunately, but fairly, come to expect from the United States. The usual complaint - from the American public in general and the American press in particular - is that mr. Webb handed out too many yellow cards, in part because he was led to do so by diving and flopping, when anyone with minimal understanding of the game agrees that his biggest mistake was not giving early yellow cards for the three or four first violent fouls the Dutch commited, something that set the tone of the game. When he noticed that the players had understood he wasn't willing to send anyone off, it was already late, and when that boot to the chest got away with only a yellow, it was clear that the chance of a straight red was zero. From there on it was a hack-and-slash and trying to stay up when fouled - even if marginally - meant the defenders from both sides would hit harder the next time.

Mr. Webb did see the foul on Villa you mentioned, and in my opinion it did warrant a yellow. At first I thought he had missed it and only yielded to the complaints, but the replay showed he did see it and let the game carry on because the Spanish kept possession mostly unnoposed in the midfield, which is what the rulebook says the referee must do; let the team that was fouled carry on the advantage and give the card later. The Spanish were enraged at the foul though and didn't carry on; so the foul was called and the Dutch player was given the yellow card. You can argue that Villa "flopped"; in my opinion, the Spanish were justifiably fed up with the Dutch "anti-play" tactics. If the other team is making it a gameplan out of hacking me down, and the referee is mostly letting them get away with it, I'm going to complain more forcefully too after the 48097th time I'm fouled, screw the advantage in this play because the long-term advantage is going the other way.

The whole strangeness of this particular play, foul and card dates back from another rather violent World Cup game: Holland vs. Portugal in 2006, which was another free-for-all with all sorts of violent behaviour - actually it was much, much worse than this final. In that match the referee DID try to control things by handing out yellow cards early and often for violent fouls, but the players weren't interested in behaving and so the match ended with something ridiculous like 14 yellows and four reds, which was what they deserved for kicking each other instead of the ball. And what did FIFA do? Expelled the referee for "ruining the show", when if anything it was both teams who should've been sent home. And now most referees are terrified of handing out too many cards in a knockout game. And Webb was already known for being too lenient (as most English referees - in the last two seasons in England there were two players who had their legs broken without the players who committed the foul being sent off!). And van Marjwik is a smart guy and knew that Webb wouldn't hand out cards early. And the Dutch midfielders aren't shy of hacking down anyone (which is a valid style of play, if ugly and risky if you get a referee with the balls to send someone off early). And I'm really tired because this will probably fall on deaf ears, if not yours, someone's who'll snap back and send me into another rant sadden me much.




obligatory [/rant]

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #618 on: July 12, 2010, 02:02:38 AM »
i second every word you said, except for soccer. it`s football =)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #619 on: July 12, 2010, 02:27:43 AM »
i second every word you said, except for soccer. it`s football =)

Association football.

Kilgamayan

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #620 on: July 12, 2010, 02:37:48 AM »
See, the interesting thing is that I spend the match with the denizens of /sp/. They almost unanimously agreed that de Jong should have been red carded - and they still were outraged every time Spain decided to go to the ground like they'd been shot. The problem I (and probably many other Americans) have with diving and embellishment is that we don't see it as a valid style of play, we see it as cheating and cowardice. (This is actually reflected pretty well in the USA national team, which basically refuses to embellish/flop outside of Altidore) Physical play is what it is - it has positives and negatives, and they're both fairly clearly outlined from the beginning, both from personal experience and simply from the rule book. That's fine, you know what you're getting into with it. Faking injuries has almost zero drawback despite being against the rules, and it never gets called despite the number of players/countries that do it. It's resorting to playing the people instead of playing the game. There's no sportsman ship in it whatsoever, whether or not it's in response to physical play.

Americans don't care about trying to right what one team perceives as a wrong with another wrong, they care about seeing a quality match, which this was far from thanks in large part to Spanish acting. If what you described about FIFA's internal operations is true, then it's definitely a problem on a corporate level and needs to be fixed on that corporate level, but as far as I am (and many others are) concerned that doesn't make gaming the system the cheating way the Spaniards did any more acceptable.

tl;dr Two wrongs don't make a right, and higher-level wrongs don't excuse lower-level wrongs. Whether or not Holland played overly physical, whether or not FIFA is fucked in the head, I saw Spain go out there today and cheat their way through the match. I wish Germany/Uruguay had been the finals match, that match was a lot better in almost every regard.

(Also, I don't think the Villa-drawn foul was a yellow at all, so I guess that's an agree-to-disagree situation.)

i second every word you said, except for soccer. it`s football =)

The term "soccer" is British in origin.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 02:42:00 AM by Kilgamayan »
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Alice★f

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #621 on: July 12, 2010, 05:02:41 AM »
i second every word you said, except for soccer. it`s football =)
F?tbol

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #622 on: July 12, 2010, 06:00:33 AM »
Given I'd had some time to think about it, I feel an important distinction needs to be made, else I look like I'm setting up a double standard.

I have no problem with aggressive, physical play - I see it as a valid tactic, with the players knowing the risks (higher chances of earning fouls/cards) as well as the potential rewards (intimidate opposing team, get them to back off/tire them out). Playing with the intent to injure, however, is just as cheating and cowardly as faking fouls and injuries, if not more so given someone may actually get injured. The guy several games ago that cleatstomped an opposing player in the back of the knee (a surgically-repaired knee, no less) while they were on the ground? THAT is cowardly play and deserving of scorn.

That being said, I do not believe de Jong kicked with the explicit intent to injure, given the path the ball was taking.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

ebarrett

Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #623 on: July 12, 2010, 07:30:17 AM »
Anyway, if we had a few more efficient German referees* around, both the rough play and the flopping would certainly be punished equally.

*and dramatic Italian Western music



edit: also, this gem for the ages.
(edited again, changed link for better quality)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 07:41:13 AM by ebarrett »

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #624 on: July 12, 2010, 07:45:12 AM »
I have no problem with aggressive, physical play
Despite agreeing with you earlier, I must oppose you here. Football is a game of finesse, pushing and trying to intimidate is not what you should be doing to take control of the ball, rather you should try outskilling your adversary. That, I think, is why you see so much diving from the "good" teams like Argentina, Spain, Italy and so on.

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #625 on: July 12, 2010, 06:23:31 PM »
Even if one accepted that premise, two wrongs still don't make a right. This is what I meant by "Whether or not Holland played overly physical...I saw Spain go out there today and cheat their way through the match."

I suppose I'd say I draw my line of what's acceptable and what isn't at common human decency - playing rough being okay as long as your primary pursuit is still the ball, playing with the intent to injure or faking an injury not being okay. Disagreeing over playstyles will be what it is, but I hope we can all agree that lying to impartial third parties and gaming the system has no place in any proper competition.

EDIT: For the curious, I have no problems with Brazil, Mexico, Chile or the 'Guays. From what I've seen of their play, they don't resort to lying and cheating to win (or at least not as often as Italy/Argentina/Spain/Portugal do).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 06:27:32 PM by Kilgamayan »
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Edible

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #626 on: July 23, 2010, 06:40:13 PM »
Bump because France just got fired, lololol.

Kilgamayan

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #627 on: July 23, 2010, 06:43:29 PM »
I read about that on /sp/ this morning. Good for whoever's in charge of that team right now. Maybe this will knock some overinflated egos down a peg or three.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Jana

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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ
« Reply #628 on: July 23, 2010, 06:51:26 PM »
Hey, this thread got bumped, so I don't feel bad about posting in it. :derp:

I wasn't around to comment on the finals, but I'm glad Spain won.