Labyrinth of Touhou 4F

[Pesco]

I'll edit in the details and links of the old thread later.

Thread 1
Thread 2
Thread 3

English wiki
Japanese wiki
2.04 download
2.06B download
NG+ save file
Cheat table for use with Cheat Engine. (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010)
Cheat table for Special DisK (Cheat list ver: 5th July 2010)

You will still want patch 2.06 for choice moments if you choose to NG+ however. If you ever re-recruit someone that you already have (everyone with NG+), their level will drop back down to 1 upon recruitment...which isn't so bad because it keeps their exp so you just re-level up. However, it brings all their skill levels back down to 1 as well (no your skillpoints will not be reimbursed), in addition, any equipment that character was wearing when you re-recruited them will be deleted. eeek.

DO NOT use the 2.06B patch on your first playthru, it's not functional with the translation patch. The only purpose of this patch is to use New game +, which is unavailable in 2.04.
When starting a new game with new game+, the menu order from top to bottom is:
Carry over unlocked characters?
Carry over skillpoints? (will only carry initial 5 characters if first menu is no)
The last is carry over items.

I haven't new game+ed yet myself (will soon) so if there are other menu choices in between I don't know them, sorry >=(

Install order is:
game, plus disk, 2.4 patch (my plus disk cd is pre-2.4, yay , translation patch.
There is a patch 2.5 and (I think) 2.6. They offer features like new game +, buffed Nitori, and probably others. However as far as I understand, they do not work with the english patch since they are beta patches. Something you should know.. ANYWAY, in continuation with the last thread:

when discussing this game, there is some kind of house rule where you have to (spoiler) lolol some name here (/spoiler) names past floor 6ish in the game. Please try to remember that since some people actually seem to care. Of course, use square brackets not round ones to actually spoiler tag successfully.

Starting 6F with 9-squad. At this stage, we can declare Rumia useless for the team. With my 4x levelling rate, Mystia can probably solo the game with MCM. Wriggle meatshields okay enough and Cirno stays useful with normal investment.

[marina2]

Oh~ new thread.

Question
- How does the Battle Point count? Do each characters have their own Battle Points or share them together?  (I'm preparing to recruit

Spoiler:

Kaguya

in the future)
- Do the enemies in this game have their own element that Strong/week with other element or they just have Elemental Affinities to reduce the damage from elements? or both

........................................................

I'm on 8th floor right now (~30+ hours of gameplay). I like the conversation in this game. Its full of reference and joke ^^ 

And...I heard that 30F boss need ~lv600 to defeat. I wonder how long before my character will get to that lv...

[Esoterica]

Oh~ new thread.

Question
- How does the Battle Point count? Do each characters have their own Battle Points or share them together?  (I'm preparing to recruit

Spoiler:

Kaguya

in the future)
- Do the enemies in this game have their own element that Strong/week with other element or they just have Elemental Affinities to reduce the damage from elements? or both

........................................................

I'm on 8th floor right now (~30+ hours of gameplay). I like the conversation in this game. Its full of reference and joke ^^ 

And...I heard that 30F boss need ~lv600 to defeat. I wonder how long before my character will get to that lv...

1. Each character gets a point for a battle they start in the active party in, and a point for each battle they finish.  So no, they aren't shared.
2. I'm not really sure what you're asking.  Enemies have elemental weaknesses and resistances just like you do.

[Serela]

And...I heard that 30F boss need ~lv600 to defeat. I wonder how long before my character will get to that lv...

fyi, 21~30F are a bonus disk unrelated to the story. And unlike the main game, it's not as fun and a lot more grindy. You'd probably be reaching 30F around level 280~300... so... yeah. Getting from Endgame to 21F is a grindwall (although you've got a ton of V2 bosses to beat, at least), and then it's fairly balanced until 30F which is an INSANE grindwall.

Plenty of people just beat the game and stop there, without doing Plus Disk.

And @Pesco, yeah, with your increased leveling rate, Rumia's Demarcation is the only thing that might even be somewhat useful. And even then it's pretty situational (other then the meager party heal).

[Pesco]

And @Pesco, yeah, with your increased leveling rate, Rumia's Demarcation is the only thing that might even be somewhat useful. And even then it's pretty situational (other then the meager party heal).

Nope, her heal is way too crappy to be useful. Just attrition it out with whoever you're fighting.

[Serela]

Nope, her heal is way too crappy to be useful. Just attrition it out with whoever you're fighting.

I meant more the situational use of the PAR/Debuff healing. Against bosses that actually inflict those statuses a lot, it should be somewhat okay, especially since DEF/MND debuffs could murder you. The meager heal is pretty worthless though, yeah.

[Pesco]

But Mysti does the same and turns them into buffs :V

[Serela]

But Mysti does the same and turns them into buffs :V

But it only targets one person D:

...yeah, even in a 9 Team run, Rumia is nearly useless.

[RainfallYoshi]

At  least Rumia is a consistent source of MYS damage? Maybe?

[Bananamatic]

how long is the main game? :V

[Esoterica]

how long is the main game? :V

I'm at 18F with 40 hours and took the time to explore each floor, so...

I dunno, probably depends on how long you spend on each floor. I'm guessing 50-60 hours for the main game, though I don't know what level you should be at for the final boss, so there's lots of room for variation.

[Bananamatic]

Reached floor 7.
Well...fuck. :V

[Esoterica]

Reached floor 7.
Well...fuck. :V

Worse than 10, 11, and 12 combined imo.

[Bananamatic]

let me guess, and the boss is at the end and he's going to 1 hit my party

[LHCling]

Possibly. Just saying.

Though, to be quite honest in my first playthrough I didn't see anything wrong. In my second playthrough where my characters are severely restricted (i.e. I'm using some crap here and there), it was a bit more of a challenge.

[Esoterica]

let me guess, and the boss is at the end and he's going to 1 hit my party

... :V

Unrelated, is Cirno useful at all on higher floors?  I haven't leveled her since about 8F.

[LHCling]

Her stat growth is terrible to the point that she becomes a mook roller / proc support, despite the slightly faster leveling rate. Only moderately useful at best in my opinion.

[Bananamatic]

... :V

Unrelated, is Cirno useful at all on higher floors?  I haven't leveled her since about 8F.

I already dumped her along with Rumia, Wriggle and Chen :V

[The Greatest Dog]

let me guess, and the boss is at the end and he's going to 1 hit my party

On the first turn (and every... fourth turn after?), if you're not prepared for massive fire damage...
So be prepared to drain skill points away on your best tanks for fire resistance.

[Bananamatic]

Btw, is the F5 touhou supposed to 1 hit me all the time? I just let Iku buff Patchy and spammed Silent Selene for 10k, then I just threw decoys at her as she 1 hit almost everyone :V

[Esoterica]

Her stat growth is terrible to the point that she becomes a mook roller / proc support, despite the slightly faster leveling rate. Only moderately useful at best in my opinion.

Good.  Just wanted to make sure I didn't make a mistake there. :V

@Banana: Hey, Chen's awesome.  She was a lifesaver against

Spoiler:

Mokou

for me.

And yeah, 5F's supposed to be like that.

[LHCling]

5F should really only be one-hitting you once she reaches critical phase. Speaking of, I was able to get through without losing anybody  :V

And yes, Chen is awesome.

[Serela]

Chen shines more as you get farther in (although she doesn't scale in Plus-Disk), because she starts outspeeding everything ridiculously, and gets the SP to spam Kimontonkou and Flight of Idaten. She's the strongest person in the game for quite a while, IMO. Against a single target at least. That might be going a bit far, but regardless, she's great.

5F girl, you should have a buffed up Meiling sit in 1st slot to tank, that will help you out a lot.

Cirno is only good for PAR/SPD down, and has no other uses at all. She can be nice in random battles because of that, but after 12F boss, I really wouldn't keep her around. Overall increase in resistance to status affects, and her wimpy stats... plus other characters come in who can SPD-/PAR anyway.

[Bananamatic]

How long does a single level on the extra disk take?

[Esoterica]

plus other characters come in who can SPD- anyway.

Okay, next question: Who?  The wiki mentions that as well, but the only pre-plus disc character I can think of that can cause any significant speed-down is

Spoiler:

Suika

, who is much better off spending her SP and turns on buff'n'nuke.  There's other assorted characters like

Spoiler:

Reisen

and

Spoiler:

Komachi

that have speed debuffs thrown in among other debuffs, but they're so weak that the SPD- itself isn't very noticeable.

I have no intention of putting Cirno in my team by the way, so don't say "if it bugs you that much just use Cirno". :V

[Earthsiege]

Okay, next question: Who?  The wiki mentions that as well, but the only pre-plus disc character I can think of that can cause any significant speed-down is

Spoiler:

Suika

, who is much better off spending her SP and turns on buff'n'nuke.  There's other assorted characters like

Spoiler:

Reisen

and

Spoiler:

Komachi

that have speed debuffs thrown in among other debuffs, but they're so weak that the SPD- itself isn't very noticeable.

I have no intention of putting Cirno in my team by the way, so don't say "if it bugs you that much just use Cirno". :V

Spoiler:

Yukari

has one, but you get her late and she's better spent turnhaxing/buffing anyway. I guess even though

Spoiler:

Komachi

et al have weak SPD debuffs, you get a whole bunch of debuffs at once.

I wonder if it's possible to change the potency of a character's buff/debuff effects.

[Serela]

Huh... I guess you're right. Still, 14F gal

Spoiler:

Suika

is very worth using in the main game, since Iku is the only character who can buff ATK/MAG and she isn't used by many people anyway. Against a boss significantly weak against debuffs (16F hinthint), having her use SPD down is almost more important then having her deal damage, although she can do both of course.

I'd rather just use

Spoiler:

Suika

for SPD down then actually keep using Cirno, though. Unless it's for added challenge. After 12F boss, she's just not really useful enough; PARing mooks is nice, but Reimu can do that too (albeit slower), and will begin having the SP to do so often. I see why one might pull her out purely for the 16F boss, though. IMO, drop her after 12F triple boss, use Reimu for mook PAR (her regular damage will be getting kind of ehh anyway), pick up 14F gal for SPD-down and her other usefulness.

People that really love Cirno could probably continue to get mileage out of her for all of main-game, except for a much-needed replacement during the 18F/Final boss. I have to admit, her high speed growth and lvl-up rating helps make her the best person to be placing PAR or SPD-down on a group of enemies, even if she's made of glass and good for nothing else.

How long does a single level on the extra disk take?

If you mean floor, well, it depends on the floor! If you literally mean character level, you've gotta grind up to like 200 (you'll have a bunch of V2 bosses+Bloody Seals+Boss Rush to make this less boring) to get ready for 21F, then the natural encounters you face exploring each floor should accommodate the 10~ level ups you should get each floor to keep up with the enemies. Hitting 30F around lv300, where the game basically turns into "Grind until you can face the next 30F boss", of which there are three.

If you don't mind a more-then-decent bit of grinding, facing the first 30F boss (who is very epic-looking and sounds like a pretty cool fight, if I remember the bosses right), is sane. But actually beating the Plus-Disk Final requires doubling the level you were upon reaching the floor (aka hit lv600) which is... well, jeez.

[Esoterica]

Huh... I guess you're right. Still, 14F gal

Spoiler:

Suika

is very worth using in the main game, since Iku is the only character who can buff ATK/MAG and she isn't used by many people anyway. Against a boss significantly weak against debuffs (16F hinthint), having her use SPD down is almost more important then having her deal damage, although she can do both of course.

I'd rather just use

Spoiler:

Suika

for SPD down then actually keep using Cirno, though. Unless it's for added challenge. After 12F boss, she's just not really useful enough; PARing mooks is nice, but Reimu can do that too (albeit slower), and will begin having the SP to do so often. I see why one might pull her out purely for the 16F boss, though. IMO, drop her after 12F triple boss, use Reimu for mook PAR (her regular damage will be getting kind of ehh anyway), pick up 14F gal for SPD-down and her other usefulness.

People that really love Cirno could probably continue to get mileage out of her for all of main-game, except for a much-needed replacement during the 18F/Final boss. I have to admit, her high speed growth and lvl-up rating helps make her the best person to be placing PAR or SPD-down on a group of enemies, even if she's made of glass and good for nothing else.

Yeah, more or less what I've been doing.  Like I said, Cirno lost her place in my party the instant I hit 13 characters, so I just wanted to make sure her rare role of potent SPD- and PAR wasn't something to overlook regardless of stat growth.

[Garlyle]

Hey hey hey, don't hate on Cirno.  I'm at 18F and still using her regularly and I don't regret it at all.

Her damage potential and defenses are never huge, but that's not what she's there for.  Her speed is wicked fast, for one - having her around helps you run from dangerous encounters that could otherwise outspeed and steamroll your party later in the game.  And similarly, her spells are useful for their support effects - dropping enemies right down to -50%/-40% SPD is something other characters can't match (Any that do drop enemy speed only do so by less than half of that at a time), not to mention PAR continues to work on a fair number of things, so having someone who can paralyze an entire enemy group at a time is helpful.

Also she was my MVP against the 16F boss.  Not even joking.



As for F5's boss, it's completely possible to defeat her with her one-shotting your party.  I ended up doing it that way (Meiling fell really early), and still won - you just need to outspeed her in damage output.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Doesn't the game have a severe lack of characters who have CLD-based attacks? That alone gives Cirno some value. I also prefer using Cirno over the other few CLD-attack users, I do not know why, but I like using her. Maybe it has something to do with me saying "you got pwned by the 9 ball" whenever she killed an enemy :V