Labyrinth of Touhou 4F

[IBakaChan]

I think I prefer Aya... Or well, I'm not sure, but I'm using her mainly since Chen has NOTHING in terms of defense.

Taking a little break from LoT(Kinda like half an hour or something) before I go on a random encounter

Spoiler:

'Nitori

hunt.

[Bananamatic]

So I beat the F8 girl at lv32-38...underleveled? :V
And she seems rather useless.

[Esoterica]

So I beat the F8 girl at lv32-38...underleveled? :V
And she seems rather useless.

Which 8F girl?

Both 8Fs are extremely good, one for being one of the best single target healers/buffers in the game, the other for having pretty much everything you could want offensively; debuffs, single and multi target attacks, physical and magical attacks, four different elemental spells, an extremely powerful single-target nuke (one of the strongest in the game), and the best PAR spell in the game as well.  Not to mention both her ATK and MAG are through the roof.

[Pesco]

That's a low roof you've got there :V

[IBakaChan]

*Gigglesnort*

Anyways, ffffff :getdown:
I hoped they would come in a little sooner and not be on the OMGHIGHLVLRECOMMENDED, I GOTTA GRIND OR ELSE I'LL GET OWNED-part of the game.

At least I have my beloved 5F bitch.

[Esoterica]

That's a low roof you've got there :V

There's only two single-target healers, and the 8F healer is, in most circumstances, the better of the two.

...the other 8F character I exaggerated, but her PAR-inducing attack turns anything that can be paralyzed into easymodo, and she's the only damage dealer you need against the 16F boss.

[Ghaleon]

There's only two single-target healers, and the 8F healer is, in most circumstances, the better of the two.

Actually she's the worse of the two. She's a better buffer/cleanser though.
The other character heals for more with less delay, and is noticeably less squishy against bosses with multi target spells. 8F girl was actually one of the most frequently 1shot characters in my entire party for my first playthru. Simple nuke alls like overgrowth, hellfire, ether flare, etc would ALWAYS pwn her...And I dumped her level ups into mnd too.

[Esoterica]

Actually she's the worse of the two. She's a better buffer/cleanser though.
The other character heals for more with less delay, and is noticeably less squishy against bosses with multi target spells. 8F girl was actually one of the most frequently 1shot characters in my entire party for my first playthru. Simple nuke alls like overgrowth, hellfire, ether flare, etc would ALWAYS pwn her...And I dumped her level ups into mnd too.

I understand that Minoriko's got more potent healing and less delay, but there is no way she's more durable than 8F.  She rarely dies on me, whereas Minoriko gets eaten alive by even the weakest fire/water element attacks, or any physical attacks.  Not to mention 8F removes status ailments with her heal: extremely important if you don't have Meiling in your party.  Though less important, 8F also hits decently well and is great for eliminating trash, whereas Minoriko hits like an empty purse against everything.

That said, I still see 8F as the superior choice for the buff alone, though not by much.  If Minoriko didn't have such terrible defense/elemental resistances, there's a fairly good chance I'd use her instead and leave the buffing to characters like

Spoiler:

Ran

.

[Pesco]

If Minoriko has worse base speed, then their healing ability should be comparable at higher levels when the delay gap is smaller. For the equip-run, I don't expect to ever get hit by status ailments. Minoriko's heal should be sufficient. But, that will put more pressure on the rest of the team to deal damage while she's hitting for piddly stuff :/

Which team looks better?

Spoiler:

Tenshi / Mysti / Reimu / Kaguya

Meiling / Mystia / Alice / Kaguya

Remilia / Mystia / Minoriko / Kaguya

[Esoterica]

I'm gonna go with the first team.

[Garlyle]

Your two healer choices both have their ups and downs, and every player seems to experience them a little differently.  I found that under the right conditions, Minoriko was surprisingly durable - but anything else and honestly I would've been better having a character who could actually deal out damage to just swap in for the wounded character, because she was knocked out way too easy.  Sanae I generally found to be the more durable overall, and even if her healing was slower, I found that most of the time I needed either of them, the boss was also slinging around status effect attacks, and I needed someone who could save Meiling if things went badly.  Alternatively, using her specifically to buff someone like Patchy or Yuugi up is great, due to the large variety of buffs provided.

Honestly I tend to get by pretty well with just Reimu for healing duty, but that's just me.

Also: The first team looks best purely due to Reimu's inclusion.  Gah, I want to say to put her into the second team but I'm not sure which of the four I'd drop.  Alternatively, take out the first team's tank for the second team's choice and I think that'd be great.

[Ghaleon]

Seems like you're pretty set on speed and mage. There's one thing I would like to point out though... Your speed and mage are clearly your only two sources of DPS, but they aren't exactly what I consider an efficient combination. Your mage's best spell (IMO..at least it's the best when you don't NEED defense ignoring attacks, which you never ever do for bosses) is her buff/action guage filler. Your speed's best nuke has very little delay... so, yeah you do the math >=p.

Honestly I don't see why you should agonize over how good a party is regardless since you have to be ridiculously over level to beat the game with that party anyway. I mean just think about double hibachi. Your mage is *DEAD* when they needle parade (unless once again you're mega over level), that character is simply not designed to survive that kind of situation. Then you're literally fuxed with the physical immune one...

Edit: Although your mage's buff could be a lifesaver if you need your healer in party #1 to heal with any speed (it has huge delay after all).

[MysTeariousYukari]

For a team and using characters in those teams, I'd say something like

Spoiler:

Meiling, Remi, Reimu, Kaguya. But since that isn't an option, the 1st team. Tenshi does have the best/2nd best overall defenses but her HP is suck and her ATK isn't much to mention.

Any reason your not using 18F other then

Spoiler:

it being a man?

[Pesco]

Any reason your not using 18F other then

Spoiler:

it being a man?

Not really...don't like his base levelup rate and upping TP is gonna cost me huge.

I got too set on using Patchy as my all purpose mage that I never really tried out the other players for that slot when I played. I'm taking your word about the current mage choice. I don't expect to be able to do all the blood seals or stars. If it's good enough to last me till 20F and end, it'll do.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Spoiler:

Kaguya is apperently good, but I have not tried her. Her MAG and spell formula's do look pretty good... but whether they actually are can only be seen in practice...

Have you considered recording you play, or at least the bosses? I'd love to see how you do with that party.

[Pesco]

Don't have the facilities to record, unless you don't mind phonecam recordings, and I suck at getting the pictures in focus.

[Ghaleon]

Spoiler:

Kaguya is apperently good, but I have not tried her. Her MAG and spell formula's do look pretty good... but whether they actually are can only be seen in practice...

she is good. The thing is her buff has medium delay, buffs your target, and lets them move. so if you combine it with someone with a strong attack with large delay...it's basically your teams strongest nuke with 30% more power (cuz of the buff) and less delay >=p. She's only SLIGHTLY better at surviving physical attacks than patchy though, and while good against magic attacks, nobody comes close to patchy in that catagory really...

[Esoterica]

Spoiler:

Kaguya is apperently good, but I have not tried her. Her MAG and spell formula's do look pretty good... but whether they actually are can only be seen in practice...

She's definitely good.  I haven't used Patchy since I got her, and she was my only damage dealer against

Spoiler:

Flandre

even though I was underleveled.

[Garlyle]

She's definitely good.  I haven't used Patchy since I got her, and she was my only damage dealer against

Spoiler:

Flandre

even though I was underleveled.

Well, yeah. 

Spoiler:

Kaguya

's formulas don't factor in enemy defense.  Unfortunately, while you can count on them to damage everything, the one that actually does respectable damage is rather expensive (All of her stuff is), and while you can count on it to be damaging, I found that even that never really matched up to the damage that other characters were capable of, that did still have to go through defense.

Still, it's good to have her to take care of some of the low-HP, astronomical-DEF/MND enemies later on.

And have you considered a group using Yuugi as the tank?  I know that's an odd choice because she's got like no MND, but I've never seen a MND-targetting attack that you'd really want a tank for in the front slot, and your mage choice will be quite capable of tanking MND attacks anyway.  And for physical attacks, she's got some of the best HP and DEF of non-tanks.  The issue of course is in handling Composite attacks, but if you pumped DEF enough that wouldn't matter too much.  And you'd be adding a huge amount of physical damage potential, which you could take full advantage of via

Spoiler:

Kaguya

's buff.

[Pesco]

Sounds like a combo to me :V And I really like Yuugi anyway.

[Esoterica]

Well, yeah. 

Spoiler:

Kaguya

's formulas don't factor in enemy defense.  Unfortunately, while you can count on them to damage everything, the one that actually does respectable damage is rather expensive (All of her stuff is), and while you can count on it to be damaging, I found that even that never really matched up to the damage that other characters were capable of, that did still have to go through defense.

Really?  I haven't had a single character thus far match the damage of

Spoiler:

Hourai Barrage

thus far.  Closest I've had was probably from 8F fighting 16F, and that was still behind by a good 30-40k damage.

EDIT: Wait, forgot 15F :V

[Drak]

Heya. I just loaded my saved game, just to find out that all my characters' levels' are set to zero. Screenshot. Has anyone else encountered this bug? If so, is there any way to fix this out? This bug seems to affect only that particular save - if I start a new game, the levels and stats are as they should be.

[Ghaleon]

I was thinking yuugi too but am not as confident she won't be totally rolled by stuff like flying insect's nest, or basic spell nukes like ether flare... I haven't really used her for awhile.

[Earthsiege]

If you're using Yuugi as a tank (or at all, really) do what I did and send her affinities through the roof. She'll still get hammered by magic but even Ether Flare is a lot less dangerous with 300-ish MYS.

[Axel Ryman]

Agh! I can never tell when a new thread is made!  :colonveeplusalpha:

I'll start with an old quote I should of answered but forgot.

If you're NG+-ing, there's very little reason to actively restrict yourself to one team, I suppose; especially since you have speed levelling.  Obviously you don't want to spend anything on characters you won't use, but if you can keep only about 18 characters levelled and stuff, the time you spend going through the levelup screen and party switches should be far less than the amount of time you spend fighting bosses with the proper teams versus a subpar team.

I want to spend as little time as possible switching characters, as well as visiting the shrine for leveling.(Until the later floors, where I can just do that all at once when necessary). I also want to barely train off floor trash and only get necessary exp from the bosses. So far I'm trying to pump skill points in TP, affinities, and just about all other stats as well(Mostly SP, SPD, and ATK/DEF/MAG/MND depending on the character) since I can just put 3 Machine God Lucifers on everyone and go through half the floors without leveling. Right now I just need choices that are fast, powerful, and can take a good deal of punishment when necessary. I don't want any Healing to be too big of a necessity to the point where I need to constantly play defensive for a bit. Maybe some here or there because I might not survive an attack, but that's it really.


For those who have no idea what I'm talking about(or just forgot), in the last thread I mentioned about speedrunning the game on NG+, so I'm looking for a 12 character team to just plow through the game in as little time as possible.


@Pesco: Is the SKP pool just 1 address or does it change when starting the game? Been trying to find it but no luck. Probably looking for the wrong value or something stupid from my end.

[Garlyle]

Heya. I just loaded my saved game, just to find out that all my characters' levels' are set to zero. Screenshot. Has anyone else encountered this bug? If so, is there any way to fix this out? This bug seems to affect only that particular save - if I start a new game, the levels and stats are as they should be.

I've heard of this happening before, but unfortunately I don't know any way to fix it.  Sorry.

I was thinking yuugi too but am not as confident she won't be totally rolled by stuff like flying insect's nest, or basic spell nukes like ether flare... I haven't really used her for awhile.

Affinities definitely help, as was mentioned.  Either way, Yuugi's got really good HP.  Given that she should have a tonne of extra SKP to put into that from being a four-person-only game, along with extra levels anyway, she should be quite capable of handling those at least somewhat.  Plus you'll probably be buffing her up with

Spoiler:

Kaguya's buff

anyway which will help out her MND at least somewhat.

[Pesco]

SKP pool is a fixed address for every game on everyone's PC.

[Axel Ryman]

SKP pool is a fixed address for every game on everyone's PC.

In that case I'm spending tonight looking for it.

[Pesco]

Oh right, your cheat table doesn't have SKP pool on it :V

Lemme put up a revised version with extra addresses later.

[Axel Ryman]

I'm surprised I even kept a copy of it. Maybe the updated one should be put in the first post for people who want to use it...nah.