Labyrinth of Touhou 4F

[Ghaleon]

welp, looking at the database that came with the special disk. Rumia's demarcation and moonlight ray have the exact same formula as before. Remilia's spear is also the same. I didn't think they buffed remi's spear, but I could have sworn it used to do noticeably less damage than magic missle and yinyang orb at level/floor 1, but now it isn't, but I'm not seeing it scale any faster (like it used to), word.

[gakpakeerror]

can

Spoiler:

Rinnosuke v2

died before it uses Composite Form?

I sparked it when it uses Spirit Form for 1m+ damage (Marisa was ~20% Mag around that time)
and it died.  :derp:

Screenshot: 80% MAG Spark. It's dissapearing.
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8554/sparku.png

[MysTeariousYukari]

You should experiment using

Spoiler:

Renko

, her party buff is a slightly weaker version of 18F's in exchange for halving party gauge (which isn't that bad, esp, since all your defenses are buffed up from it). The damage is really insignificant unless you're Patchy.

Isn't that buff like 75% per use? Definately nice, but a problem with that buff, you must also prevent her from having any MAG, can't put a bonus in, can't put in skill levels, otherwise your hurting yourself for more then needed(yes the damage is minor, but it can add up when the move is used constantly to keep the buff up). She is the only Non-Tank I put the levels into something other then her offensive stat, I give her SPD instead

Also, Mystearica, that's how I used my levelup bonuses too. But then Baity comes around with a more defensive setup and just does so much better then everyone else... I mean, he beat the final boss at Reimu lv120 right? And with the way damage works in this game, it makes sense. On my Special-Disk play I think I'll go a bit more defensive.

I can't stand being defensive in Video games in general unless it's needed or easy to do(guarding in DMC games), plus I barely avoided Finals worst moves by winning before they got used, during the point Final could use them I barely "grazed" my way through the Final, and I was like 160+ or something(I forget)

[Ghaleon]

can

Spoiler:

Rinnosuke v2

died before it uses Composite Form?

I sparked it when it uses Spirit Form for 1m+ damage (Marisa was ~20% Mag around that time)
and it died.  :derp:

Screenshot: 80% MAG Spark. It's dissapearing.
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8554/sparku.png

That boss is very easy as V2 >=)

Isn't that buff like 75% per use? Definately nice, but a problem with that buff, you must also prevent her from having any MAG, can't put a bonus in, can't put in skill levels, otherwise your hurting yourself for more then needed(yes the damage is minor, but it can add up when the move is used constantly to keep the buff up). She is the only Non-Tank I put the levels into something other then her offensive stat, I give her SPD instead

That's not really a drawback considering she has no nukes. Unless you count her spd/par debuff spell, which even if you DO put points into MAG, is about as useful for nuking as her attack command.

Why is it nobody likes putting level up bonuses in def stats though? whyyy....Oh you said why.
...
This nameless bonehead on poosh is really wigging me out. I like how "proof" consists of rigged screenshots hiding levels which are so clearly uneven.

[Esoterica]

Also, Mystearica, that's how I used my levelup bonuses too. But then Baity comes around with a more defensive setup and just does so much better then everyone else... I mean, he beat the final boss at Reimu lv120 right? And with the way damage works in this game, it makes sense. On my Special-Disk play I think I'll go a bit more defensive.

There's a video series on youtube of a 40+ minute Mokou fight.

Just saying, defense works, but it takes forever. :V

[Ghaleon]

There's a video series on youtube of a 40+ minute Mokou fight.

Just saying, defense works, but it takes forever. :V

It takes longer yes, but it enables you to do stuff at a lower level. So t hat's time saved from grinding at certain points. Or, you can grind to the same level, and that 40 min fight wouldn't be 40 mins (though it'd still be longer).

It also generally results in less failed attempts, which is conveniantly NOT recorded for  such fights >=)

[Garlyle]

can

Spoiler:

Rinnosuke v2

died before it uses Composite Form?

I sparked it when it uses Spirit Form for 1m+ damage (Marisa was ~20% Mag around that time)
and it died.  :derp:

Screenshot: 80% MAG Spark. It's dissapearing.
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8554/sparku.png

Yeah.
Each form of the original, for instance, has 1 million more HP than the forms actually need to trigger Form Destruction, as a 'buffer' to keep you from utterly destroying them.  If, in theory, you were to do about 1.4m damage to any of his forms, you would instantly kill it and end the battle.
I assume the same is true with later encounters, just with a bigger HP buffer


Also: To the person with the notes about Patchy's attacks, I tried to specify that choosing based on element was purely for the purpose of random enemy encounters, NOT for bosses, but I should have clarified that a bit.
Also also: You should really make those comments on the wiki if you can, just so that anyone else who stops by can see them.

[Bananamatic]

There's a video series on youtube of a 40+ minute Mokou fight.

Just saying, defense works, but it takes forever. :V

And I beat her in less than 4 minutes :V

[Garlyle]

Just saying, defense works, but it takes forever. :V

Yeah, but unfortunately it's sometimes the only way to handle stuff when underlevelled.

[Dasher-Crash]

When fighting Eientei, is fighting with Reimu lvl 57 underleveled?

[Ghaleon]

So uhh, getting the charagraph thing working is easier than I thought. I have one question though, I got working _stand graphics for certain characters, how exactly do you make sure you select an exact # of pixels using photoshop? so I can crop it? I mean I can blindly crop by hand using the crop tool, but I can't find where I can set the exact pixels, and position it accordingly (for better results).

Also, does anybody know the artist's name for TPWEVO pictures? Some characters in TLaby do not exist in TPWEVO, (china for example), and the artstyle clash is pretty significant.

TPWEVO's Remi/Flan pics aren't really satisfactory to me too, darrr.

When fighting Eientei, is fighting with Reimu lvl 57 underleveled?

No

If you're having trouble, paralize Reisen and don't worry about her. Don't debuff them, or kaggy goes LOLNO, and buddha's stone bowls your ass, which is bad.

[Garlyle]

So uhh, getting the charagraph thing working is easier than I thought. I have one question though, I got working _stand graphics for certain characters, how exactly do you make sure you select an exact # of pixels using photoshop? so I can crop it? I mean I can blindly crop by hand using the crop tool, but I can't find where I can set the exact pixels, and position it accordingly (for better results).

Copy the full image
Create a new image with the dimensions of the intended image
Paste the previous one and drag it
Voila

[Ghaleon]

Copy the full image
Create a new image with the dimensions of the intended image
Paste the previous one and drag it
Voila

I knew that, I uhh..I mean that was my brother typing >=p

[Esoterica]

When fighting Eientei, is fighting with Reimu lvl 57 underleveled?

You're about nine levels over what I was when I did that fight.

Like Ghaleon said, just spam PAR at Reisen so you don't need to deal with her.  Once Kaggy's out of the picture you can feel free to debuff as you please.

I don't remember with certainty, but I think Kaggy's debuff removal is only triggered by a certain stat being debuffed; I remember spreading PAR, PSN, and a few defense debuffs without her doing anything the time I won.

[gakpakeerror]

I don't remember with certainty, but I think Kaggy's debuff removal is only triggered by a certain stat being debuffed; I remember spreading PAR, PSN, and a few defense debuffs without her doing anything the time I won.

3 total debuff form all Eientei group will trigger Buddha's Stone Bowl, so the most viable option is to just debuff Kaguya's and Eirin's speed.

So uhh, getting the charagraph thing working is easier than I thought. I have one question though, I got working _stand graphics for certain characters, how exactly do you make sure you select an exact # of pixels using photoshop? so I can crop it? I mean I can blindly crop by hand using the crop tool, but I can't find where I can set the exact pixels, and position it accordingly (for better results).

you can input a specific number on the top left boxes (the Width and Height) before you crop.
Photoshop will resize the cropped image to the Width and Height

Yeah.
Each form of the original, for instance, has 1 million more HP than the forms actually need to trigger Form Destruction, as a 'buffer' to keep you from utterly destroying them.  If, in theory, you were to do about 1.4m damage to any of his forms, you would instantly kill it and end the battle.
I assume the same is true with later encounters, just with a bigger HP buffer

so the 100m HP on the last boss is a buffer too. :V

[Pesco]

9-squad has saved Gensokyo \o/

Mystia at level 162, Wriggle at level 158. I think this is probably the only fight I didn't feel overleveled for. I was dealing around 120k per turn of combined damage. Poison did about 90k (~40% of overall damage). Left summon got killed first. Top and right went down at the same time. I think I'll try post game for a bit with the team.

[Garlyle]

9-squad has saved Gensokyo \o/

Mystia at level 162, Wriggle at level 158. I think this is probably the only fight I didn't feel overleveled for. I was dealing around 120k per turn of combined damage. Poison did about 90k (~40% of overall damage). Left summon got killed first. Top and right went down at the same time. I think I'll try post game for a bit with the team.

Yay~!
...The damage output of poison kind of amuses me.

Anyway, I revamped the character set 1 plans and wrote up character set 2 plans.
Please feel free to comment.  Again, I encourage you to do so in the discussion page itself, so that when it comes time for me to review, it's easiest to keep track of everything that's been said.

[Serela]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not seeing anything much on that Character 2 discussion page... did you forget to save them onto it or something

EDIT:It's there now :3

[Ghaleon]

On phone, can't wiki edit, not sure what info is staying or not. But fishey's comment on patchy being useless for trash is drug induced. While her speed does indeed prevent her from nuking down  enemies that are fast, she generally CAN outspeed your average mook like knights, sorceresses, etc. Her elemental variety really helps with trash too.

When you are underlevel playing with defensive builds, in plus disk, you actually have trash get to make moves fairly often, likewise, her mnd allows her to continue taking 0s in that situation.

Honestly, those whole "sucks at, is bad, etc" comments shouldn't be thee IMO (except for reisen maybe =p)

[Serela]

Special Disk run starting. Going for DEF on Sakuya, Remi, Meiling; MND on Minoriko. I don't know if I'll keep Sakuya or not, but Minoriko should be able to fullheal even without MAG boosts, and her extra MND should greatly up her suvivability. Also gonna try an ATK-based Komachi, since she's got the atk growth of Suwako and a better leveling rate; Scythe That Chooses The Dead has a great formula with only 40% delay, on paper it should deal worthy damage of using.

Oh, and SPD for Cirno to up her usefulness. She really hardly uses any of her other stats anyway, and SPD is her highest growth. Will probably drop her after 12F boss and bring her in for 16F boss; although I could see using her all the way till 16F boss before dropping.

[Ghaleon]

putting Mino's level into mnd is what I did in my first laythru (I did it for sanae too), you'll wonder how anybody can think Sanae tank take a hit better (even with sanae's mind being boosted too).

Komachi's scythe that chooses dead uses the same formula as Alice's Return Inanimateness , has the same delay too. Komachi levels reasonably slower though, but has 2 more atk growth than Alice levels, and is spirit instead of fire....I'm sure it'll pwn face on some fights, and do good on neutral ones.

[Pesco]

9-squad ran into Suwako v2 by accident. When all your attacks do 0 damage, poison ftw. Rumia was kept busy healing the team while they stacked par and poison. Respect where it's due.

[Serela]

I lost to Rumia.

No, I didn't accidentally run into her. I was fully prepared.

Wow ;_;

[Garlyle]

9-squad ran into Suwako v2 by accident. When all your attacks do 0 damage, poison ftw. Rumia was kept busy healing the team while they stacked par and poison. Respect where it's due.

What.  You killed a boss with nothing but poison?

Wriggle, Fuck Yeah.

[Pesco]

Pretty much. When she got par locked and Rumia had a free turn, Moonlight Ray and hope she died.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Komachi with ATK Levels will deal impressive dmg with Scythe, and on lower-def foes you will actually see damage(!!) from Narrow Confines.

Ok, seriously, have all of you agreed to drop the spoiler tags? Cause if so, I shall as well, somewhat.

[Garlyle]

Ok, seriously, have all of you agreed to drop the spoiler tags? Cause if so, I shall as well, somewhat.

Seems like it, so long as

Spoiler:

Yukari, Rinnosuke, Maribel, and Renko

remain spoilered.

[Ghaleon]

Komachi with ATK Levels will deal impressive dmg with Scythe, and on lower-def foes you will actually see damage(!!) from Narrow Confines.

Ok, seriously, have all of you agreed to drop the spoiler tags? Cause if so, I shall as well, somewhat.

Honestly I rather hated them to begin with. I just used them because everyone else wanted to for whatever reason and I tried to respect that. Alas when someone doesn't, I kinda forget to myself.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Seems like it, so long as

Spoiler:

Yukari, Rinnosuke, Maribel, and Renko

remain spoilered.

Ok, I intended to give them the tag anyway.

Special Disk question, has 15Fs spells been adjusted in anyway for what you can tell? Like the recoil on her single target or the gauge-dropping of her other 2? What about any other characters? Nitori getting another boost on Megawatt maybe lol

[Serela]

A few attack animations have been change (and they all seem to have been tweaked slightly to look more professional and pretty, but the difference is small enough that I might just be seeing things), but everyone seems the exact same fundamentally. Nitori having her improved Megawatt in a patch that we actually use all the time makes her great, though; and people have realized that, apparently, Rumia can actually be useful. In my Special Run (Exploring 4F now), I'm going to use Rumia no matter how bad she might seem at any one point; going to see if Demarcation being a usable party heal happens before Plus.