Author Topic: I Can't Play Shmups  (Read 15839 times)

605Scorpion

I Can't Play Shmups
« on: April 05, 2010, 07:10:38 AM »
Hi everyone.  I've been trying to beat touhou 6 for several months now, but since I have poor reaction skills and even worse memory so it's very difficult for me to do so.  The only time I've beat EoSD is when for some reason my laptop decided to start chugging and everything was dang near 1/3 speed.  haven't been able to reproduce that.  I recently discovered cheat engine but I can't save my replays.  I mean, I guess I'm okay with that, I'm happy enough just being able to see the ends of the game finally (even on normal!!!!), but I think it would be nice to at least watch the replays in full motion since touhou is a very pretty game and it's hard to appreciate it when I'm concentrating real hard at 10 pixels.  Is there any way to do this?

I've never asked this anywhere because it seems like all touhou communities across the net are very hostile to this because it isn't "legit".  I acknowledge I'm not hardcore and have no skill.  Just playing EoSD Extra at 0.5 speed is hard for me (still can't even beat this!, but I've only tried a couple times)  Some people say, you just need to practice and you'll get better.  After college, work, sleep, fixing things in the apartment etc, I only have a couple of hours left in the day to relax and play video games, and in that small amount of time left there are still more games I want to play besides Touhou 6.  Like touhou 7, 8, 9 etc, nevermind completely different genres/series.  Even if I practiced an hour a day I don't see how it would take me months or years to get to a level to beat this game on NORMAL.  Nevermind relearning different spellcards and stuff on higher difficulties.

I understand if no one want to answer this, I've seen people get upset at other people on Youtube because of them trying to pass off TAS as skill, and I can dig why no one would want to tell anyone else of how to do this, if it's possible.  I can;'t convince anyone that these aren't my intentions, all you have is my word! :(

Ghaleon

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2010, 07:16:36 AM »
Wish I could help but I really don't know how. Sometimes I want to play the game in slowmotion just for gags myself, people tell me you can force the game to play in slomo by nerfing the FPS settings in the ini file to something lower than 60, but it doesn't work (doesn't alter the fps at all either). You might want to give it a try if you haven't already. I honestly don't know if that will be recognized as a cheat and kill your replay. Good luck though.

Some people just aren't good gamers, or good at certain genres, I'm pretty sure my brother for example would never be able to 1cc normal even after a couple years, so don't feel too bad. It's good to enjoy something even if you're not good at it though >=)

Just don't keep playing in such a way that you win every time, always challenge yourself slightly at least, because even slow learners do get better (might not reach the same level as pros, but everyone likes to improve right?)

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2010, 07:24:53 AM »
Well the think is if you are trying to 1cc a touhou game it will take you a long time...if you're just trying to beat it then that can be done. Personally I've only beaten 2 touhou games(MoF and PoFV). 3 if you count SWR. On EoSD I do fine until stage 4 where knives and other pointy things end my run once and for all. The same could be said for SA. But in that case it's Yuugi's a real pain and Orin = doomkitten.
Satori and her stage are easier though.
Utterly fail at UFO. Kogasa is surprisingly impossible.
It's as Ghaleon said, as a gamer you need to find your genre.
For example I simply cannot play rhythm games. I'm decent at music appreciation but rhythm games just kill me.

BTW what does TAS mean anyway?

Garlyle

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2010, 07:30:56 AM »
Don't feel too bad; Shmups by nature are one of the hardest game types.  Even if Touhou's Normal actually comes in at fairly easy among shmups, it's still really difficult.

My advice to you is actually to move away from EoSD.  Try some of the other games.  They give you a couple amenities that EoSD doesn't (Showing hitbox, boss locator), but all the same, it's all practice that should pay off in helping to tune your reflexes and learn things like streaming and navigating patterns - when you go back to EoSD, you may pick up on things that you couldn't see before.

Also, don't feel bad that you can't beat EoSD Extra.  The Extra stages can be rage-inducing in that you really have to learn them.  Come back once you've gotten at least a couple Normal 1ccs under your belt, as that's more or less when you're sort of expected to take care of them (They're easier than a Hard 1CC, but generally much harder than a Normal 1CC)

One other random tip I do hear is to play on a difficulty -above- your current one and keep forcing your way through.  When you go back, you'll find it notably easier.

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2010, 07:55:13 AM »
How is touhou's normal comparable to other top down shooters?



And scorpion how do you use cheat engine's I'd like to just try that out sometime.

Garlyle

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2010, 08:08:34 AM »
How is touhou's normal comparable to other top down shooters?
It's... a thing.

I haven't played a whole lot of shmups (I'm kind of picky with them; Touhou and Castle Shikigami are the only series that I keep coming back to as I like my games to have personality), but I'd put Touhou's Normal as an on-par with the "easier" third or so of Shmups, with Lunatic going up to matching with some of the tougher ones (but I don't think any of them on Lunatic would match up to some of the toughest - read that as "most of CAVE's stuff")

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2010, 08:25:33 AM »
We talking other danmaku shooters or other shooting games in general?

And maybe it's just me...as in the guy who played space invaders and arcade shooters before touhou


Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2010, 01:08:15 PM »
Not sure if this is related, but the vsync patch makes a tremendous difference for me when I play TH06.


I was able to capture most cards in Normal consistently with it.

Sapz

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2010, 03:45:56 PM »
How is touhou's normal comparable to other top down shooters?
I don't recall ever having seen a (not ancient) arcade shmup I'd put at the same level as Touhou Normal, mainly because of the gigantic amount of extends you get in a Touhou game - an arcade shmup's generally going to give you six total lives if it's generous, some will just stick with with the starting three. Hard is around the entry level point. Lunatic has harder danmaku patterns than a lot of shmups, but that's counterbalanced by having deathbombs, over twice as many extends, etc etc. It's pretty hard to make an accurate judgement since the styles are generally so different, but I'd maintain that most arcade shmups are harder to 1cc than most Touhou Lunatics when you balance everything out (not counting UFO, of course).
Let's fight.

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2010, 03:49:18 PM »
Nontheless, Touhou is still one of the hardest games I've played.

Barrakketh

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2010, 05:20:04 PM »
We talking other danmaku shooters or other shooting games in general?

And maybe it's just me...as in the guy who played space invaders and arcade shooters before touhou
Watch this 1CC of CAVE's games, Mushihimesama Futari.  It's the hardest difficulty available, but it'll give you an idea of what their games are like.
Cheating? I cannot even wrap my head around the point of it. Wouldn't you know you had cheated? How on Earth could you maintain crisp certainty of your superiority to all others? And if you're unable to do that, what's the point of anything?

Matsuri

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2010, 05:24:00 PM »
Watch this 1CC of CAVE's games, Mushihimesama Futari.  It's the hardest difficulty available, but it'll give you an idea of what their games are like.

For the record, Mushihimesama Futari ver.1.5 ULTRA mode is the same thing, only infinitely harder.

How is touhou's normal comparable to other top down shooters?

A cakewalk, really. :V

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2010, 05:30:34 PM »
It's also infinitely less fun.

Bomb Bomb Bomb Die, Bomb Bomb Bomb Die, Bomb Bomb Bomb, Use a continue on Stage 1. And that's assuming I don't clip something. Usually I'd game over earlier than that.


God Mode, I can 1 life its first stage. Haven't managed that on the others cause I suck and either derp or don't know the patterns.

Bananamatic

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2010, 05:49:16 PM »
Watch this 1CC of CAVE's games, Mushihimesama Futari.  It's the hardest difficulty available, but it'll give you an idea of what their games are like.
Or just watch the easiest mode to find out that Futari is really overhyped in difficulty, especially by people who don't play shmups thanks to that one video.

What makes touhou super easy compared to every single other shmup is the fact that touhou vomits extends like nothing else.

And it's not just Cave. For example, I find Darius Gaiden 20x harder than any cave game I've played.

Touhou could be harder if it didn't hand every single extend on a silver platter.
Most shmups have stage extends hidden instead of handing out 2 of them for free and the score ones take a lot of effort to reach - even if they are virtually infinite, for example in Progear.

But touhou is a good way to start with shmups.

And remember that it's not just about 1ccing - you get better even by blind playing and even by creditfeeding(Matsuri will disagree though)

Just start a game and shoot stuff. That's what shmups are about after all :V

Lunatic has harder danmaku patterns than a lot of shmups
True - however, you can just plan your bombs(or two, especially in MoF/SA) to eliminate that problematic attack.

However, most shmup bosses(again I'll mention Darius Gaiden and possibly Gunbird 2) don't have "spellcards" and 15 second nonspells, instead they have one or two modes and loop the patterns - meaning that you'd have to waste many more bombs if you can't handle one because you'll see it 3-4 times through the battle.

It's like Extra, with the difference that Extra is mostly about knowing what to do with not that much skill required.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 05:51:54 PM by Bananamatic »

Barrakketh

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2010, 06:07:21 PM »
Or just watch the easiest mode to find out that Futari is really overhyped in difficulty, especially by people who don't play shmups thanks to that one video.

What makes touhou super easy compared to every single other shmup is the fact that touhou vomits extends like nothing else.
I find that I don't get many extends on the Touhou games where they are awarded based on score instead of point items collected.
Cheating? I cannot even wrap my head around the point of it. Wouldn't you know you had cheated? How on Earth could you maintain crisp certainty of your superiority to all others? And if you're unable to do that, what's the point of anything?

Alfred F. Jones

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2010, 06:32:55 PM »
@OP:
Hah, wanna hear a funny story? I sucked worse at EoSD than you do. It took me three months to beat EoSD easy mode with no continues, and about six more months to beat EoSD normal. So don't worry about your "progress rate".

Actually, this reminds me of something that was asked on the imageboard a while ago. The original statement was "Fuck the people who want fans of touhou to be good at danmaku games. When the amount of touhou shit completely unrelated to vertical shooting is 1000x more plentiful than shit related to vertical shooting, then being good at the games is completely unimportant."

And my personal response (which I fully expect HME to tear me apart for):
I half agree and half disagree with this. I think the games are worth playing, if only because you can hear the pretty music in-game and watch gorgeous bullet patterns unfold.

However, 1ccing is indeed unrealistic for a number of people; it might be a bit cynical of me to think this, but I fully believe that there is only a given amount of capacity within any given player to do well at danmaku games. Practice still goes a long way, but some people will always be stuck on easy mode, while others will catch on to lunatic in a matter of weeks, if not days. Ultimately, it's just chance that determines how well you can ever do at the games. I resent the notion that "anyone can 1cc lunatic if they just try real hard". You should only ever feel obligated to 1cc normal, and if you are not capable of doing that, then just 1cc easy-- and if you can't do that, then just enjoy what you can get out of the games and no one will think the less of you for it, so long as you've tried.

That said: Memorization also has its place in Touhou, so don't give up on the games TOO quickly. You would be surprised at how many bullet patterns can be micromemorized, right down to the individual bullets.

In short, don't let anyone tell you how good you should be at the games; some people will never have the skill to do anything above easy, and the best thing to do is just accept that and move on. There are lots of other facets of Touhou to enjoy apart from the games-- though you should still give them a try. And also, if the danmaku games don't suit your fancy, try out the fighting games: IaMP, SWR, Soku (which contrary to popular belief, are legitimate Touhou games), or spinoff Touhou games, many of which are fun and hard in their own right.

If you're feeling pressured by the massiveness of this fandom and by people who can do anything from 1cc EoSD normal to people who can time out VoWG lunatic, please don't. No one will know if you continue to be totally casual and while people will care, they have no power to affect you in any way. Get into things at your own pace, and above all, remember to take it easy.

Ghaleon

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2010, 06:52:06 PM »
I agree with the comments here about how Touhou's difficulty compares to other shmups. Normal is just
plain easier than most, but still heaps harder than most games, hard is basically average among shmups (danmaku-wise), and lunatic is pretty compareable to some nasty cave games. But they are all easier overall due to generous extends. So while I find 1ccing a lunatic to touhou game has attack pattens that are as hard to dodge for me as something from dodonpache or somethg (most have harder patterns for me actually), you get pretty much at least 9 lives instead of 4 (getting 5 is quite difficult). The deathbombing also counts as a few lives in itself as well.

I personally like it like that though, and suspect most arcade games would be like that too if it didn't mean less money =p.

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2010, 07:10:00 PM »
I disagree with most of Ruro's points tbh.  I think that anyone and everyone can potentially become good at Touhou games.  A shmup is nothing but a technical challenge, just like learning to drive or learning a musical instrument..  It's not like it's some kind of physical feat of strengh that's limited by your genetic makeup.  It's true that some people get better faster than others of course, usually due to prior experience, but the most important thing at the end of the day is the time, effort, and resources the player puts into it.  A Touhou prodigy who 1ccs Lunatic and then never touches it again will never be as good as a scrub who works his ass off every day over the course of several years.

I think there are two deciding factors for overall improvement.  One, you need to have passion.  Simply put, when it comes to any difficult trained skill, you're simply not going to get better unless you really really enjoy doing it.  Forcing yourself through a game that you hate just because you feel obligated to 1cc it is pointless and will only make you frustrated.

Second, you actually have to use every resource available to you to learn the game and practice.  First of all, memorization is absolutely vital if you want to be good at Touhou.  In fact, I would really say that mastery of any danmaku game is like 70%% memorization/strategizing and 30% dodging.  Bomb use plays into this too.  Sorry people who hate memorization, but that's just how it is.  Go savestate Hibachi or somethin'.  Realize also that memorization, just like dodging, is a skill.  Which of course means that the more you practice/work on it, the easier it will become.

You should also use practice mode and make sure your practicing is focused, with always a specific goal in mind.  Focus on parts that you always have trouble with and figure out a way to get past it, even if that strategy is just dropping a bomb in a certain place.  Also, experiment; don't just spend your playing sessions mucking around doing the exact same movements every time., use your brain and engage the game actively.  Also, watching replays by other, more skilled players is a good way to look at the game in a way that you've never seen before and get new insights.

I guess tl;dr all I'm saying is: enjoy what you're playing, use everything available to you to improve your game, and don't be afraid to try different things.  I hope you got something out of this, if anything. :p

605Scorpion

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2010, 07:58:39 PM »
@OP:
Hah, wanna hear a funny story? I sucked worse at EoSD than you do. It took me three months to beat EoSD easy mode with no continues, and about six more months to beat EoSD normal. So don't worry about your "progress rate".

Actually, this reminds me of something that was asked on the imageboard a while ago. The original statement was "Fuck the people who want fans of touhou to be good at danmaku games. When the amount of touhou shit completely unrelated to vertical shooting is 1000x more plentiful than shit related to vertical shooting, then being good at the games is completely unimportant."

And my personal response (which I fully expect HME to tear me apart for):
I half agree and half disagree with this. I think the games are worth playing, if only because you can hear the pretty music in-game and watch gorgeous bullet patterns unfold.

However, 1ccing is indeed unrealistic for a number of people; it might be a bit cynical of me to think this, but I fully believe that there is only a given amount of capacity within any given player to do well at danmaku games. Practice still goes a long way, but some people will always be stuck on easy mode, while others will catch on to lunatic in a matter of weeks, if not days. Ultimately, it's just chance that determines how well you can ever do at the games. I resent the notion that "anyone can 1cc lunatic if they just try real hard". You should only ever feel obligated to 1cc normal, and if you are not capable of doing that, then just 1cc easy-- and if you can't do that, then just enjoy what you can get out of the games and no one will think the less of you for it, so long as you've tried.

That said: Memorization also has its place in Touhou, so don't give up on the games TOO quickly. You would be surprised at how many bullet patterns can be micromemorized, right down to the individual bullets.

In short, don't let anyone tell you how good you should be at the games; some people will never have the skill to do anything above easy, and the best thing to do is just accept that and move on. There are lots of other facets of Touhou to enjoy apart from the games-- though you should still give them a try. And also, if the danmaku games don't suit your fancy, try out the fighting games: IaMP, SWR, Soku (which contrary to popular belief, are legitimate Touhou games), or spinoff Touhou games, many of which are fun and hard in their own right.

If you're feeling pressured by the massiveness of this fandom and by people who can do anything from 1cc EoSD normal to people who can time out VoWG lunatic, please don't. No one will know if you continue to be totally casual and while people will care, they have no power to affect you in any way. Get into things at your own pace, and above all, remember to take it easy.

This is exactly how I feel about it.  I didn't word it this strongly as this (even though I wanted to) though because I'm new to this community and only registered to ask this question so I didn't know the regime in place regaurding etiquette.

What I'd like to do is beat each game with every shot type, only progressing to the next after I've beat the previous.  ie Once I beat EoSD on normal with all shot types I'll go on to PCB.  I'm eager to finally get to and fight Utsuho ?3?~♫.  However I can't really do this without hacks because asking to essentially study and memorize bullet patterns is too hardcore for my involvement level at the current moment.   I can't really beat any touhou game right now without Cheat Engine and slowing the game down (or for a long while now).  I'm making progress completing the stories now, and once I get caught up on all the games I'll go back and slowly return the game from 50% speed to 100% and try to beat it legit.

What I'm trying to do now is hack the games speed and still be able to save replays, since I'd like to watch my runs in 100% speed, however I can't save since the game won't allow replays to be saved when the FPS is over 60FPS, and slowing the speed down with Cheat Engine makes the FPS, like, 120.  Like I said I was kinda afraid to aske this since essntailly I was afraid of this happening:
>Hey guys how do I cheat and still save replays?
>OMG You're cheap and no skill!  Practice and play the game legit like us!!!
>But memorizing entire stages is too much work and dodging some spell cards is hard....
>Tough deal with it scrub!

I think there are two deciding factors for overall improvement.  One, you need to have passion.  Simply put, when it comes to any difficult trained skill, you're simply not going to get better unless you really really enjoy doing it.  Forcing yourself through a game that you hate just because you feel obligated to 1cc it is pointless and will only make you frustrated.
Exactly this.  I have fun playing touhou, it's a nice challenge that I don't really get without feeling COMPLETELY impossible like trying to play CS or something.  But right now I just want to play all the games and see all their endings (especially given how slavishly devoted much of the touhou community is to ZUN, and the game endings are nowhere to be found on the internet), I feel if I did this, going back and playing the game without hacks wouldn't feel like such a brick wall and a chore.  ie Man, failure #3275... still can't beat touhou6 with reimuA, touhou11 is a looong way away....   VS Alright I know how the whole Touhou story plays out, now I can go back and just get better! :D

I mean, this isn't an issue anymore, I'm having success with Cheat Engine.  I have time to think and dodge bullet patterns, but it'd be nice to watch it in 100% speed afterwards. :/ I mean I don't care if the replays were plastered with YOU CHEATED D:< , I'd just like to watch my ill gotten gains in full speed.

Again, apologies if I sound angry or anything, sometimes I just come off as abrasive.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 08:04:10 PM by 605Scorpion »

nintendonut888

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2010, 09:46:23 PM »
My opinion doesn't mean much, but I kinda disagree with the statement that "not everyone can beat lunatic." I agree, everyone has different capabilities, and everyone performs differently, and it's true that some people may never beat lunatic, but that mindset is rather self-defeating. I mean, if you just classify yourself as "incapable of lunatic," of course you'll never do it, because you'll be limiting yourself. Anyone who ever manages to 1cc lunatic will be written off as "always was capable of it," and you'll think of them as different than yourself. Again, considering who I am my opinion probably doesn't mean much, but I don't think you should ever say you are incapable of doing it, because if you do you'll never improve.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
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Alfred F. Jones

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2010, 10:17:04 PM »
I think the "you can 1cc lunatic if you just try real hard" is much more self-defeating, because most people never will, and when they say that they're trying, the answer is always "try harder". I think this fandom's idea that "if you aren't good at the games, you aren't trying hard enough" is a really stupid concept, since it blames the player for something they can't help (and yes, I fully believe that they can't help it-- in fact, I think it's genetic, but ignore me until I write an academic peer-reviewed study on it). Worse still, it suggests laziness on the part of the player, which is very, very wrong when these people are literally pouring countless hours into a game and are just not getting anywhere. Coming to terms with the fact that everyone has limitations when it comes to danmaku skill is something this community needs desperately.

Though, there are some things here and there that CAN be improved on. Among them, besides memorization: Bombing more, learning where bullet hitboxes are (and in the case of EoSD and PC-98, learning where your hitbox is :V), bombing some more, where and when (or if) to grazewhore, and so on. Those alone should help you improve; despite my fatalism about the whole thing, I really do believe that everyone is capable of 1ccing easy if they practice good resource management, even if they're not too great at the actual dodging.

Again, no one should ever feel obligated to be playing at an arbitrary skill level if they're just plain not capable of it. Anything else is naive idealism; accept it and move on. Play at whatever skill level you're at. As long as you enjoy the games, the difficulty should never matter.

LHCling

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2010, 10:52:51 PM »
I'm one of the people who had the mindset of "I'll never be able to 1cc a Lunatic". I believe this was broken through the use of encouragement from... various other players (you know who you are; people). Can't believe that I stalled for that long in between the two difficulties though.

And my personal response (which I fully expect HME to tear me apart for):
*snip* I think the games are worth playing, if only because you can hear the pretty music in-game and watch gorgeous bullet patterns unfold.
Why would HME tear it apart? You're the Admin and could take us out with a blink of an eye.
Believe it or not, I like that statement opinion. Though, the "if only" makes me want to choke you go all  :/
I'm very certain you've had your moments where you enjoyed playing Ruro  :V
Well, it's only an opinion so I actually can't disagree with it so... I can only make all these weird faces at it  :V :V :V

If you're feeling pressured by the massiveness of this fandom and by people who can do anything from 1cc EoSD normal to people who can time out VoWG lunatic, please don't. No one will know if you continue to be totally casual and while people will care, they have no power to affect you in any way. Get into things at your own pace, and above all, remember to take it easy.
Very much this. Occasionally, there is some light poking going on between people though, but that's more like rivalry rather than a "HAHA, YOU SUCK!". Speaking of, there's been an awful lack of this; I miss the old days already  ;_;

I believe everybody else has said everything that I would've wanted to.

EDIT: Coherence failure.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 10:56:51 PM by Bai-tan »
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<>
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Alfred F. Jones

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2010, 11:00:03 PM »
@Baity: I know I could eat the history of disagreements really easily, but I'm not some kind of god just because I have a shiny purple name. I'm a big girl, I can take it when people disagree with my opinions. And in HME, I'm just another Touhou player, and a below-average one at that. :]

And to be honest, my somewhat cynical point of view regarding danmaku skill is something I would love to be unequivocally proven wrong about, because even though my experiences have taught me otherwise, I would like to believe in the silly ideal where everyone can improve indefinitely if they try really hard. But I just can't believe such a thing anymore.

Still, if it were true, I would really enjoy it. :) I know I would at least like to not suck as much at UFO hard as I currently do, at least...

The Greatest Dog

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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2010, 11:04:17 PM »
 Hmm...

Alright. I'll admit it. Now that I've 1cc'd all the games on Normal with all the shot types (and with default lives), 1cc'd IN and MoF on Hard, and Stage 5 IN Lunatic without continuing...

I still fail to 1cc EoSD on Normal sometimes. Mainly with the Reimu shot types. But I seriously recommend that, if you're sticking with EoSD for the time, you should use one of the Marisa types. Even if you use MASTER SPARK Marisa, getting used to a faster movement speed and (+1 pixel) bigger hitbox is much harder but valuable than Reimu's speed and range.

However, if you can't quite memorize the stages yet, then maybe Reimu A is still... Eh?

Oh, and suddenly I'm agreeing with 99.9% of Keine's points, so yeah...

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2010, 11:15:18 PM »
Well, you also must realize that your skill may be hindered by not using all the resources given to you. A person who refuses help on how to avoid things, doesn't use practice mode, and doesn't watch replays/videos will naturally progress slower than someone who uses all those things.

But, the most important thing is to never give up. I can't argue that there is no upper limit to skill (those weirdos trying to 1cc Dodonpachi for example :V), but you shouldn't sell yourself short if you truly want to succeed.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Bananamatic

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2010, 11:22:52 PM »
imo you should also develop some basic shmup skill...by playing shmups.

don't concentrate your eyes on your hitbox, a good player can look much further up and still be in control - focus on the screen, not on the 10x10 space.

learn how to stream and re-stream the bullets, some stages can be trivialized completely by knowing how to stream - I'd say that 70% of the stages are pixel aimed in touhou.

also learn to(and don't be afraid to) bomb properly. not losing bombs is 70% of a normal 1cc.

when going for a 1cc and not practicing:
when it's hard(or never captured it before), bomb it.
don't risk dangerous dodges, bomb first. then die.

If you still don't 1cc, figure out how to do more attacks without bombs.
If you die with bombs too much, learn how to bomb better. it comes by itself.

when you are bad, you improve much faster than when you are good. atleast in games :V

and what's HME :V

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2010, 11:29:14 PM »
@OP:
Actually, this reminds me of something that was asked on the imageboard a while ago. The original statement was "Fuck the people who want fans of touhou to be good at danmaku games. When the amount of touhou shit completely unrelated to vertical shooting is 1000x more plentiful than shit related to vertical shooting, then being good at the games is completely unimportant."

I remember that post. I said that we (the thread posters) were then entering the.. (self-censorship) .."quantity > quality" territory. (/self-censorship)
Basically, that could mean that, if said amount of Touhou-related content was shmup-related, then it would be important. A mindset which I don't agree with. Play the games because you enjoy them, be it to credit-feed or to play for score. Try to understand other people's views about why they like to play that way, and don't try to push your tastes/opinions to others. (however, debating is ok for me)

Anyways. About 1ccing Lunatic Modes.
- Don't stress yourself about such a goal right away. Enjoy the games at your own pace, and *gradually* feel your efforts be rewarded, and your progress be perceived (for example, if you stop playing for weeks, months or a lot of time, and then when you return, you know how to deal with certain stage portions or boss patterns in a better way, or just have faster reflexes, or the game seems to be slower than before :D).
- Also, trying harder isn't the only way. Changing your approach to problematic portions of the game sometimes is easier, and more effective.
- One way to help you play better, is to learn what are your own strong/weak points. Through experience, you can learn that you do well against parts where other players don't, and vice-versa (some people find SoEW and LLS more difficult than MS, while I had more problems with MS than in these other two). There are people who have problems with dodging/foreseeing lasers (not me), and there are people who have problems with grazing (me. So much). There are people who have better memorization abilities (so they can plan their game ahead better), or better reaction to random masses of bullets, or better hand-to-eye coordination, or better foresight of what's happening in the game, or better mental toughness/concentration. You have ways to work on your weak points (by working around them, or working on them).
neku: now for something important.
Translations.
How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

lusvik: I don't mind about playing HM in japanese. The language of punching other people is international.

Alfred F. Jones

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  • *
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Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2010, 11:32:19 PM »
and what's HME :V

This.



Also, practicing on hard mode did wonders for me when I was trying to beat normal mode, and so did StB. Just because you're concentrating on 1ccing one game shouldn't mean that you should devote yourself to it exclusively. Play some other games, dodge some different danmaku. It's nice to have some variety, and it's great fun, which is enough reason to do anything.

Bananamatic

Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2010, 11:37:48 PM »
This.
wow I am retarded

I thought it was some other forum or imageboard :V

The Greatest Dog

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  • 90 Frames per Second GO!
Re: I Can't Play Shmups
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2010, 11:44:16 PM »
Hoo boy, how could I forget StB and DS.

StB definitely helps for the brute dodging skills, but after playing DS you might realize that some spellcards that you're having trouble with had some simpler solutions than what you've been trying.

Like 3-4 in DS...