Honest Man's Death help? (IN Extra)

[Silentsword]

Trying to clear Imperishable Night's Extra stage, and there is exactly one spellcard standing in my way: Honest Man's Death.  I lose far more lives and bombs on this single card than I do on the entire rest of the stage combined.  (As in: I usually arrive with 5-6 lives and a couple of bombs, and leave with a life and a bomb if I'm lucky).


Why is it that sometimes the laser kills me, and sometimes it doesn't?  Is there a time-of-contact factor involved, or am I missing something else?  And on that note, is there an ideal place to park myself in order to nip back and forth to avoid the dark red bullet spreads (and is there a good tempo of dodges for that spot?)


Realistically, I'd settle for getting through that card with 3-6 (preferably 5 or 6) misses/bombs remaining (thus, about 2 lives and some bombs?), as I only need that many more to finish the stage: Volcano usually costs me 1, sometimes 2 bombs/misses, I need one bomb to guarantee getting through Possessed and usually another for the interval immediately before, and 1-2 *should* get me through Hourai Doll, especially if I'm not already tearing my hair out over Honest Man's Death.

I'd also prefer something that will work with more than one team, as I need to finish unlocking Yukari's Last Word, though I'm using Reimu/Yukari and Marisa/Alice pretty much interchangeably at the moment.

[Alice]

When you see that laser (while the line is still thin), move to the opposite side than laser. You'll saved.

[Drake]

Run into the laser.

[SP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6BWj17PxH8&fmt=22

Timed out in HD.  It's pretty easy once you know the trick.

[Noite]

The laser will start hitting from the position you're on when it spawns onwards, so as long as you move even an inch to the laser's direction, it won't kill you.

[herbert]

Time out Honest Man's death, using method stated already by previous commenters.
Replay

[Suikama]

Run into the laser.

Essentially this

[bjw]

Do circles around Mokou instead.

The laser's hitbox only materializes once it reaches you, so the trick is to move through the laser. Make sure you leave yourself enough space between the columns of bullets in order to pull this off, though.

[Drake]

Do circles around Mokou instead.

I still can't figure out when to start circling and stuff to do that. I was going to attempt to time it out.

[herbert]

I just downloaded a replay of circling Honest Man's Death, it's done on Yukari solo. I tried that method on magic team, but Marisa seems too quick, Alice is too slow (when on focus at least). I wonder if this method only applies to Yukari solo.

[Silentsword]

Sweet guys, thanks a bundle....although I feel a bit of the fool for failing to pick up on the trick...

With your help, I managed to clear Honest Man's on two consecutive runs last night, though I failed the capture due to making the initial dodge in the wrong direction.  Cleared Extra both times, with Imperishable Shooting the second time - then went back and cleared it again this afternoon, and once more with Marisa/Alice, which was easier in some cases, harder in others.  All told, though, not getting hit a dozen times on that card really made the rest a lot calmer.

Which puts me one team shy of unlocking Yukari.  I've attached my replays to this post - if anyone has any further advice (such as on, say, Volcano, or on whether I had the right idea on the second phase of Possessed on the second replay, or really, anything I can work on), by all means...   I'm going to go for Netherworld team next, since I have...issues...with Sakuya

I know I had a few cases of Dumb in them, but I'm also concerned that I may have problems with my actual strategy in a few spots.

RE: circling - would you be able to show a net gain in spellcard bonus/time orb points even if you were able to graze the whole time, as compared to just blitzing the card?

[Helepolis]

Watched only your #8 replay so far, Marisa+Alice. You are far better at controlling them (I cannot control Magic team yet)

Keine's cards: Watch Kefits no death/no bomb replay on extra stage with Alice solo

Flying Phoenix: I noticed you take quite some risks. Though tactic is ok. It can be done less risky.

Honest man's death: Why do you dodge to the left when the laser always appear from the right side during the opening.

Hollow giant: Nothing wrong with your tactic except make her shoot the last three in the wave towards the sides, so go up bit more. Saves you trouble of dodging. Magic team is fast enough to do that.

Fujiyama volcano: Is practise practise practise practise untill you do it RIGHT without mistakes. One mistake and you mess up the rythm and pattern and get into heavy trouble. Watch replay on youtube to find some of the tactics. This current tactic is pretty dangerous.

Posessed by a phoenix: 2nd phase is something to "feel" and "listen" when the familiars spawn don't move (you went up and down and that is bad) like most people say: "tap on the beat" so the bullets will heavy graze you but you wont die. If you still feel unsafe about this, make sure you have simply a bomb left in your stock and bomb when you are at the top. Bombing is more beautiful then dying.

Hourai doll: Don't break your circular motion. That is the only reason why you starting dying and almost losing control. Make small circles around Mokou to do most damage. When she starts firing the yellow bullets widen your movement slightly to avoid.

That is just my point of view. Will watch other replays after breakfast.

[Silentsword]

Flaming Phoenix: It is a risky strategy if my concentration is broken (in which case I've a good chance of getting killed), but otherwise I've never had a problem with it - it throws the shots nice and wide and keeps the tension down.

Honest Man's: It's mostly reflexes that have to be untrained from the entirely-too-many attempts at this card before I sought help.  It'll take me a few more full runs to break that cycle, I think (I'm fine doing it on SC practice, but in a run is not the same at all, at least not for me).

Hollow Giant & Possessed: I'll give it a try, and your points make perfect sense.

Keine: Like with Phoenix, her second card is one that I'm usually okay on if my concentration isn't broken.  The third is a joke.  Now that you've pointed out the safe spots, I should be able to consistently solve the first one without the frenetic dodging that sometimes causes problems (though I still need to learn the second one...I should never need a third, unless I'm doing Sakuya or Reimu Solo, or a pacifist's challenge)

Hourai Doll : I need more practice, but it's good to know that I've got the general idea, even if I do tend to lose it halfway through.

Volcano: I suppose this is my new bane....

[herbert]

Keine's first SC - replay. The third wave of attack is identical to the 1st, 4th is to the 2nd, and so on with 5th, 6th, etc.

If you need, I can give you a replay of timing out flying phoenix.

There is other way to deal with the 2nd phase of Posessed, but it's more risky if you don't do it right. You better stick with you method, it's the safest way already. Only one thing I'd like to advice - if you bomb it, don't move immediately (or just move donw a little bit), and only start to move down slowly when the bullets continue.

Hourai doll - your general idea is right but some details you need to know. When the stripes of bullets from left and right, you should move a little bit up or down (the safest way is to gaze those stripes), and if the stripe from top and bottom, you move left or right. (Replay tried to time it out with Magic team but failed, dodged about 47 seconds, I think I could beat it if I shot)

And when you must bomb, try to use human side bombs (ie, Reimu and Marisa, I'm not very sure Sakuya and Youmu but I think it should be the same), they generally last longer than Youkai side and deal larger damage.

If you want to play on Magic team again, you may have a look of my replay in high score board for second half of the stage (the part between Keine and Mokou). You lost one life and two bombs there, my method only requires one bomb.

[Silentsword]

Allright, the sum of the last few night's work and your advice: Another Magic Team runthrough.

Just ignore everything before Mokou herself: to say that my gameplay stank up to that point would do the local skunks a disservice.  However, once I got to Mokou, it was like throwing a switch...

8 spellcards captured, all of them Mokou's (I flubbed - stupidly! - on all three of Keine's cards!).  One miss on Volcano, one miss on Possessed (in the usual spot, though I'm getting closer on both).

Thanks again, everyone.  I'll probably poke at this level a bit more and see if I can capture more than 8 cards in a run (I'd like to hit 12, honestly), but wanderlust is going to compel me to move on to another Extra soon (Flandre, perhaps?).