[東方意地奴 ~ Touhou Ijiyatsu] - Embodiments

[Rikter]

I thought the embodiments was supposed to be a way of throwing off memorization. Although using Dragon level stuff with a normal stage would be annoying.

[Matsuri]

On the contrary （^☆ヮ^☆）

I live for clusterfucks of bullets @_@

[Nobu]

On the contrary （^☆ヮ^☆）

I live for clusterfucks of bullets @_@

GET OUT

I love you too, onee-chan. ~your jilted imouto

I thought the embodiments was supposed to be a way of throwing off memorization. Although using Dragon level stuff with a normal stage would be annoying.

The embodiments ultimately were supposed to be a way to pack a lot more people into this game than we realistically could while still keeping it in Touhou format. :V

We don't want to make embodiments so frustratingly difficult that no one activates them because its a death sentence. And part of the 'predictability' in a stage is because the stage events are orchestrated to the music.

[CK Crash]

PoFV Normal Dragon Attack ---> Ijiyatsu Hard Embodiment?

The reason I made the suggestion is because they're completely trivial on their own; the challenge comes from the combination of the attack and the stage.

Stage 1-2: Fairy
Stage 3-4: Witch
Stage 5-6: Dragon

Aren't the Dragon attacks easier than the Witch attacks, aside from the fact that they are repeated as long as the boss still exists?

[Kuma]

By the way, I just checked my PMs, so I'm just poping by real quick to say stage 4 lol

[Nobu]

The level of difficulty of the embodiments is going to have to be tested, tweaked, and tested again. No amount of speculation can take the place of that really. It needs to be balanced where the game doesn't seem like boss spam clusterfuck of bullets, but the embodiments should still contribute to the randomness a bit without completely overwhelming the stage planning. Whether it turns out to be described as 'dragon', 'witch' 'fairy', whatever doesn't matter in the least.

[Rikter]

By the way, I just checked my PMs, so I'm just poping by real quick to say stage 4 lol

I think you need a reason on why you would fit if its any stage past 3...

[Matsuri]

Aren't the Dragon attacks easier than the Witch attacks, aside from the fact that they are repeated as long as the boss still exists?

Not particularly.

[Kuma]

I think you need a reason on why you would fit if its any stage past 3...

Really? I just picked any number, but I'm fine with whatever really.

[Sapz]

Extra or (preferably) Phantasm would be nice since they're my favourite stages in the Touhou games, but anywhere is okay, really. :V

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but just a thought: to avoid the whole embodiment clusterfuck problem, maybe there could be designated IE sections to a degree? Nothing set in stone, but certain areas where the bullets are sparse and there's crazy amounts of IE everywhere, so that the player has the option of either cruising through an easy section or pulling a risk/reward gambit by summoning the embodiment. With bullets from normal enemies being sparse at those points, it'd also allow for more complexity in the patterns of the embodiments without it becoming crazy impossible. :V

[Nobu]

That's one of the ways that Embodiments would be managed, yes. Collecton of IE throughout the stage will be controlled on principle.

 The Embodiments don't have to be crazy difficult to make things harder on the player. Just an extra wave of bullets that isn't orchestrated with what's going on in the stage is enough to throw you off.

I think you need a reason on why you would fit if its any stage past 3...

It's not an exact science, but the Embodiments and what stage they are on should *sorta* make sense from a bird's eye view.

[ES-Anthy]

personally I would be perfectly fine on stage 3, it's a good place for where a evil spirit can play around in~

[Nobu]

Ok, since it seems like people have been mostly picking stages arbitrarily..

The reason why I wanted you all to have the option to put in your stage requests, is NOT to randomly request a stage for no reason aside from they like the stage number or things like that, because if you have no good reason then you'll probably be arbitrarily assigned based on where you seem to fit the best.

Like for example, Xan is Stage 6 because she's Theorin's maid. Matsuri and I have some kind of vague relationship in game, and we both have the pet things, so she fits in S6 too. Skye is a bird type, and the first two stages are going to be outdoors and in the open, so she would fit there the best. (Note Skye had no preference, and I just figured out where she fit)

This is not an exact science. N-Forza is a Special Member, and also occupies a special niche in the MotK community, which to me seems like he would fit in OMES. Also, N-Forza --> Bemani --> OMES, it fits. If you have any sort of relationships or associations with the bosses, midbosses, or whatnot, that makes it more likely you'll fit in with a certain stage. Some embodiments are more loose than that, and could fit in multiple stages. They don't all have to fit perfectly due to the backstory of the embodiments, but it's nice to not have things be completely random either.

[Drake]

I might have to make a giant all-encompassing post in the near-future to make all the principles easier to understand.

I thought that the final Embodiment count was 21, sorry. I changed Stage 4 to have only three hyphens so could you please change Different IE@Stage 4 to "3 (+1)", Nobu?

You have it right for the hyphens and such. The ones located in the hyphens are all Embodiments that appear only in that stage. The ones located in the asterisks are Embodiments that are included in that stage, and were also found in the stage before. The one Embodiment with the double asterisk will be found in Stage 6 and is also from Stage 4. This is all set up this way so that each stage has quite a few choices of Embodiments without too much repetition. In addition, this compliments what Nobu just said about certain Embodiments being able to fit in multiple stages.

[Matsuri]

Matsuri and I have some kind of vague relationship in game, and we both have the pet things, so she fits in S6 too.

I'm as much your sister as Mode and Moerin

[Shizumarashi Mayuzumi]

I'm as much your sister as Mode and Moerin

Yes, but by that principle, everyone fits in stage 6. =P

[Sana]

Yes, but by that principle, everyone fits in stage 6. =P

Lies, I will always be Pesco's Otouto >:<

[Dragoshi]

Yes, but by that principle, everyone fits in stage 6. =P

Not me! :V

but on a more serious note...

To be honest, after thinking it over... I don't really see anywhere in particular I'd fit in, really. Then again it doesn't really help that I can't come up with anything that'd work as decent reasoning, so. :/

[Pesco]

Godmothers are just plain better than Queens. Look at every fairytale and you know it's true. :V

[Nobu]

I'm as much your sister as Mode and Moerin

Yes, but by that principle, everyone fits in stage 6. =P

Rou was my first Imouto, and he's a PC. So how does that work exactly? :V

Not everything is going to transfer over into Ijiyatsu perfectly. We will not be able to map the wide variety of relationships, situations, and jokes into Ijiyatsu without making a super contrived plot, backstory, and bio that would put Star Wars to shame.

Please don't make this any harder on me, Matsuri. ;_; If I could, I wish I could satisfy everyone's desires and put them in this game exactly as they wanted. However, it will not result in a good game, and we might as well call this Ijiyatsu ~ Monarchly Mary Sue.

So, tl;dr: :suwakodwi:

I thought that the final Embodiment count was 21, sorry. I changed Stage 4 to have only three hyphens so could you please change Different IE@Stage 4 to "3 (+1)", Nobu?

You have it right for the hyphens and such. The ones located in the hyphens are all Embodiments that appear only in that stage. The ones located in the asterisks are Embodiments that are included in that stage, and were also found in the stage before. The one Embodiment with the double asterisk will be found in Stage 6 and is also from Stage 4. This is all set up this way so that each stage has quite a few choices of Embodiments without too much repetition. In addition, this compliments what Nobu just said about certain Embodiments being able to fit in multiple stages.

Alright, will do. Two things we might want to consider:

Finding space for Ammy and E-mouse in the embodiments list: I think these are the only two people not in the game that probably should be. If we take you out of the embodiment list (in exchange for a different role in Extra stage), adding in those two would make it 21 embodiments like you originally thought they were. They both already have concept art too.

Edible and Benny: There really is no spot for them in the main game (and Edible and Benny don't really seem to interested either way), so we should probably make a concrete decision about whether or not to put them in, instead of leaving them in the "They are mods so they should be in the game" boat. I'm going to throw the first stone and say probably not (as OMES is already packed as is), and they'd probably be better suited to a sequel or Last Word or something.

[Sapz]

Ok, since it seems like people have been mostly picking stages arbitrarily..

The reason why I wanted you all to have the option to put in your stage requests, is NOT to randomly request a stage for no reason aside from they like the stage number or things like that, because if you have no good reason then you'll probably be arbitrarily assigned based on where you seem to fit the best.

Like for example, Xan is Stage 6 because she's Theorin's maid. Matsuri and I have some kind of vague relationship in game, and we both have the pet things, so she fits in S6 too. Skye is a bird type, and the first two stages are going to be outdoors and in the open, so she would fit there the best. (Note Skye had no preference, and I just figured out where she fit)

This is not an exact science. N-Forza is a Special Member, and also occupies a special niche in the MotK community, which to me seems like he would fit in OMES. Also, N-Forza --> Bemani --> OMES, it fits. If you have any sort of relationships or associations with the bosses, midbosses, or whatnot, that makes it more likely you'll fit in with a certain stage. Some embodiments are more loose than that, and could fit in multiple stages. They don't all have to fit perfectly due to the backstory of the embodiments, but it's nice to not have things be completely random either.

Ah, okay, fair enough. In that case, how about Stage 3 before Baity? There's the whole fellow Lunatic thing going on then, so I could be a danmaku sparring partner or something. :V

[Nobu]

Ah, okay, fair enough. In that case, how about Stage 3 before Baity? There's the whole fellow Lunatic thing going on then, so I could be a danmaku sparring partner or something. :V

I was actually thinking that. :V That's the sort of thing I was taking about when I was saying "putting people where they fit". Some people just have obvious connections, like you and Baity with the lunatic madness. :3

[Drake]

Okay then, I'm out and Amm-E are in. Sapz is now in Stage 3 and the count is back at 21. change it back to "4" now lol

I don't know why Edible and Benny came up in the first place, honestly. No offense but they aren't the most active people, especially towards CPMC for obvious reasons. If they show no interest and it'd be hard to put them in anyways, it's less of a bother just tossing the idea.

[Nobu]

Okay then, I'm out and Amm-E are in. Sapz is now in Stage 3 and the count is back at 21. change it back to "4" now lol

F-- I had a feeling i'd be doing this :V Changing back.

[Nobu]

Ok, threw a few more Embodiments into tentative level assignments.

An-chan: You'll be native to Stage 2, and also appearing in Stage 3 (both Stage 3 slots were taken)

Kuma: Stage 4STAGE 5, because that stage has A-F and UK and will probably be the 'deviant' stage :V

Pako: Threw you in Stage 1 for the reasons I already said :3

N-Forza: Threw you into OMES.

[Rikter]

Only reason I picked stage 2 is because of the one contest where I was paired with Tenshi. But Seeing as I control Birds I could fit in any outside stage well.

[Drake]

Stage 5 has UK and A-F, Stage 4 has Vic :V

[Nobu]

Oh feck, I mixed them up. Fixed. :V Also, we have something to discuss~

Rikter: That's a fine enough reason as far as i'm concerned.

[Suikama]

I only put Edible and Benny because "welp they're mods so they might deserve a spot" but yeah the game's already pretty packed so I'll strike em out.

[Shizumarashi Mayuzumi]

What with Drake and Slaves both being non-Embodiments in EX, that might be a good "default" for game staff Embodiments who've got no other preferences. (Though are there any? I think the only one on the Embodiment list might be Onthenet.)