Topic: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread  (Read 205576 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« on: December 04, 2009, 07:09:14 am »
I'm on Floor 7 and ran into her in a random encounter. I later found an event where she ran off. Do I have to find and beat her again, do anything special, or just wait until later in the game?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 03:15:54 am by Milkyway64 »

Chaore

  • Future Kai Ni Recipient
  • *
  • Do it, Kadokawa.
  • LOOK AT ME
Re: How do we recruit Nitori in Touhou Labyrinth?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 08:12:34 pm »
You have to find her as a random encounter again on the eighth floor, Then find the event for her again. Then you have to fight her AGAIN on the eighth floor, Now with a giant fuckyoulaser.

Shes worth the EXP and Skillpoints she gives, Though. As a character...  :V
Re: How do we recruit Nitori in Touhou Labyrinth?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 09:09:00 pm »
Shes worth the EXP and Skillpoints she gives, Though. As a character...  :V
Isn't generally a rule of thumb that whenever an enemy character joins you in a game, they're inevitably weaker than when they were an enemy?

"What do you mean 'stop repeating everything you say'?"

  • Guest

Re: How do we recruit Nitori in Touhou Labyrinth?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 09:20:58 pm »
Isn't generally a rule of thumb that whenever an enemy character joins you in a game, they're inevitably weaker than when they were an enemy?
"Enemy Mode Power To The Max"?
(altered version of "Cut Scene Power To The Max", TVtropes)
Re: How do we recruit Nitori in Touhou Labyrinth?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 11:14:44 pm »
"Enemy Mode Power To The Max"?
(altered version of "Cut Scene Power To The Max", TVtropes)
I believe what you are looking for is "Redemption Demotion", aka "Good Is Dumb". There are many listed examples of exactly this sort of thing.

Chaore

  • Future Kai Ni Recipient
  • *
  • Do it, Kadokawa.
  • LOOK AT ME
Re: How do we recruit Nitori in Touhou Labyrinth?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 11:44:37 pm »
Isn't generally a rule of thumb that whenever an enemy character joins you in a game, they're inevitably weaker than when they were an enemy?
Oh very yes. It ofcourse, applies to all characters. And while my opinion may be different, Nitori gets this VERY VERY hard.

Let me explain, as an enemy she has an extremely powerful oneshot attack (unprepared, It'll -destroy- your tanks.), fairly powerful multi-hits in Magic and Physical form, and a very oftenly used buff that increases all defensive perimeters, all with Boss HP.

As a character? She has all of that, which is pretty damn nice. Except the fact that her stats are completely and utterly -terrible-. At that, her physical Multi is noticably weaker than her magic one, and her higher attack stat IS attack. She also has TERRIBLE HP, which means that her self-buff is pretty much WASTED on her. Shes a spell caster without good spells. Shes hardly worth the trouble, as a character.

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
  • Who is it that calls for me?
  • Nickname: Yoshi of Yellow
Re: How do we recruit Nitori in Touhou Labyrinth?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2009, 12:32:53 am »
Oh the things I get to look forward to. Bahaha.

I'm still only up to Floor 4 right now. Rumia has kicked my ass repeatedly and I finally gave up and will return to her later.

Meiling = <3
Cirno = <3
Remilia = <3

*Suggests renaming this to a Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread*

Chaore

  • Future Kai Ni Recipient
  • *
  • Do it, Kadokawa.
  • LOOK AT ME
Re: How do we recruit Nitori in Touhou Labyrinth?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2009, 12:54:29 am »
*Suggests renaming this to a Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread*
Seconded, Or maybe I'll make one myself should the OP wish not.

Also, Yes. Very yes. All three are great characters, even if one gets quickly outclassed.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2009, 03:18:38 am »
Done. I just found her again on Floor 8 and got her event. Now to face her for the third time....

Prism Yoshi, Rumia isn't THAT hard, just annoying. I took her on the first try. Don't wait too long for her, because I'm certain you can get her before you move to the next floor. :V

Chaore

  • Future Kai Ni Recipient
  • *
  • Do it, Kadokawa.
  • LOOK AT ME
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 03:21:33 am »
Done. I just found her again on Floor 8 and got her event. Now to face her for the third time....

Prism Yoshi, Rumia isn't THAT hard, just annoying. I took her on the first try. Don't wait too long for her, because I'm certain you can get her before you move to the next floor. :V
Same, I didn't even notice her debuff strike myself, So I can't really offer a good solution.

That said, I find it incredibly amusing Rumia would be usefull -FOR HER OWN FIGHT-.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 03:25:06 am »
That said, I find it incredibly amusing Rumia would be usefull -FOR HER OWN FIGHT-.
Rumia blinds herself with her own darkness in canon and you're surprised the game's version of her does the same? =V

"What do you mean 'stop repeating everything you say'?"

Chaore

  • Future Kai Ni Recipient
  • *
  • Do it, Kadokawa.
  • LOOK AT ME
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2009, 03:28:52 am »
Rumia blinds herself with her own darkness in canon and you're surprised the game's version of her does the same? =V
She does so in the game too. (9F Event on Kill count fail). I'm just incredibly amused by the whole thing. That said, It sadly comes into use less than one would expect.  :V As a whole shes only a few limited uses effectively, though.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 05:31:59 am »
Just started playing this game, Beat Hong on floor 1, haven't fought chen yet (I assume she's the other boss).

My goodness this game is ownage.

One thing though, when it says "row attack", I notice it hits all targets no matter what. Does it simply mean..uhh diminishing returns attack? I notice Marissa's row attack does damage like as follows (arbitrary numbers of course) 400-200-100-50.

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
  • Who is it that calls for me?
  • Nickname: Yoshi of Yellow
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2009, 05:47:15 am »
I've noticed that too... and then there's other attacks that just says "hits multiple enemies" and doesn't diminish in damage as it foes down the row. Seems like kind of a random thing to do but it's the most sense I can make out of it.

Garlyle gave me some helpful hints that I'll pass on:

- The EVA stat does absolutely nothing. I have NEVER seen a miss in this game. Poor Chen is horrible nerfed because of this since her concept was supposed to be "don't ever get hit". She's still a great party member though. Her attack buff has NO DELAY and her single-target attack has very little. She can often damage the boss a good bit before they get a turn in.

- Once your party gets bigger, start switching them out through battles instead of using Focus. Party members in the back rows will regen HP/SP slowly throughout the battle so it gets more efficient to switch fresh people in as boss battles call for it.

- Resting in a dungeon will replenish your party's SP at a cost of TP. If you use this wisely you can stretch your dungeon treks out longer.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2009, 06:31:28 am »
I've noticed that too... and then there's other attacks that just says "hits multiple enemies" and doesn't diminish in damage as it foes down the row. Seems like kind of a random thing to do but it's the most sense I can make out of it.

Garlyle gave me some helpful hints that I'll pass on:

- The EVA stat does absolutely nothing. I have NEVER seen a miss in this game. Poor Chen is horrible nerfed because of this since her concept was supposed to be "don't ever get hit". She's still a great party member though. Her attack buff has NO DELAY and her single-target attack has very little. She can often damage the boss a good bit before they get a turn in.

- Once your party gets bigger, start switching them out through battles instead of using Focus. Party members in the back rows will regen HP/SP slowly throughout the battle so it gets more efficient to switch fresh people in as boss battles call for it.

- Resting in a dungeon will replenish your party's SP at a cost of TP. If you use this wisely you can stretch your dungeon treks out longer.

Yeah I saw those, thanks anyway. Actually I'm curious where he got some of his info from (such as the resist mechanics). I'm hoping there's some sort of wiki (in english) or something about this game where I can really read up on the mechanics.

Do people learn new spells ever? I mean, I would assume so because Remilia's gunginer spell says "will use for a long time due to poor spell selection" or something. But yet, it gives you spells before you can possibly hope to have the mp for them (cough master spark). So I wonder if you never learn em ever!

I also find that chen's defense and hp are significantly more than patchy's (someone posted they are worse...Definately not), is that true? If so stat growth must be somewhat random. Someone also said hong is the best tank. I find Remilia has more defense and hp, though she doesn't have the self heal.

In any case, the game is great, and I'm totally looking forward to having a huge party to manage each with their own strengths and weaknesses. One of my biggest beefs in modern rpgs is the monotony of 3 person parties, or the poor selection of characters (they are often basically rocks paper scissors, or melee, caster, healer stereotypes).

Anybody know exactly what "the world" does?

And approximately what floor do you have to be (key word approximately) at before you can take on the sealed butterfly optional boss thingie on the first floor (I attacked it just for kicks, it hit my entire party for like 16,000 or something.

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
  • Who is it that calls for me?
  • Nickname: Yoshi of Yellow
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2009, 06:39:39 am »
Meiling is the better tank because of her high HP, defense, and resistances combined with the powerful self heal. Her mind aint too bad either. Too bad she has piss poor attack.

I'm not sure about learning new spells... I haven't seen anyone learn anything so far.

Chen suffers a bit more than Patchy because at least Patchy has incredible Mind. Chen has piss poor Def AND Mind.

Sakuya's "The World" basically shoots her speed through the roof. It's just too bad that Sakuya isn't terrible helpful until she has a large SP pool. Once she does you can spam "Luna Dial" to give everyone up to a 100% speed boost. Zoom, zoom, zoom anyone?

I think the sealed optional boss is meant for post game clear, so you'll have to be a crazy level to take that thing on.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2009, 07:33:52 am »
I'm not sure about learning new spells... I haven't seen anyone learn anything so far.

At level 40-ish on floor 9, neither have I. I doubt that'll be changing anytime soon, too.

By the way, I gave up after 45 minutes of searching the eighth floor for Nitori. Went back and saved so I could proceed to floor 9, and found her immediately as a boss icon just around the corner. I got destroyed hard.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Inaba Tewi
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2009, 07:45:22 am »
At first I thought the game would involve horrendous grinding, but it's not so bad if you play it properly (i.e. without the maps on hand). The amount of losing your way and backtracking will naturally level you up enough.

Does anyone have drop rates data? I'm only on 3rd/4th floor and getting some more SP+20% would be awesome.

Garlyle

  • I can't brain today
  • I have the dumb
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2009, 08:03:05 am »
1. No.  Characters don't learn more spells ever, sadly.

2. The resist mechanics are on the game's JP Wiki and in the manual (Which you may have)

3. Chen may have more HP and DEF, but it's still at such utterly negligible levels anything noteworthy will tear her apart.  Plus she's got far worse affinities and MND than Patchy (Who, for a good chunk of the game, is nigh-immune to magic).

4. Meiling boasts slightly less DEF than Remilia, but overall her HP, MND, and affinities are notably better - with a defense buff, even some of the most powerful threats can survived with startling ease.  Not only that, but her support capabilities (Colorful Rain and Healer) are extremely useful for her survivability (Especially against PSN, which is practically a death sentence early on).  Remilia is, however, more capable on the offense.

5. The optional boss on 1F was the first of a string of superbosses originally meant to be fought after completing the main game.  Don't worry about em until after beating the main game's final boss on 20F

6. Stats aren't random at all, but it's worth noting, the boosts you give em on levelling/etc are permanent and continuously effective - it's bonuses adding onto a multiplier/percentage value, as opposed to a flat addition.  So, if you put 20 level ups with an ATK bonus, you'll have 40% more ATK then you'd normally have at whatever level, according to the base value.  As a result, that means more total stat growth by adding onto already high stats, as opposed to trying to raise crappy stats (Which won't do nearly as much)

7. Grinding doesn't matter too much until... about F13 or so, where it starts to matter a bit more.  Plus Disk content amps it up a bit... and then F30 is a giant wall of grinding (You'll get there at about level 200 or so, apparently... and recommended level for the uber secret boss is 600), but gives you more than enough ways to get that.

8. Actually... -don't- use Rest unless prepping for a boss.  Switch characters into reserve instead and they'll regain SP without losing TP from being in battle.  Rest will take TP from everyone - even if they DON'T have SP to recover.  It's also worth noting, if you haven't seen yet, that TP will drop faster the more damaged you are after battle (Anywhere from 1-5 TP depeding on, at best full HP, to at worst less than 25% TP), and using Escape adds two more TP loss.

9. Nitori is crap.  By the time you're strong enough to actually get her... someone else is capable of doing everything she can, and far better.  Also, it's... Encounter on 7F, event on 7F, encounter on 8F, event on 8F... Boss Rage on 9F.  And, yes, characters you get in general are weaker than as bosses statistically... but several are still really powerful as allies.



I feel like I should pass on some notes: You'll want to use a couple characters if you want others.
*You can only get Kaguya if you've been using Mokou, Eirin, Reisen, and/or Sanae a lot (The more of em you use, the faster she'll be available), but you need to reach 16F first anyway
*It would appear you need to use Rumia, Youmu, Patchouli, and Chen a fair amount to get Yuyuko, and apparently she's required for Orin
*There's also Yuugi on 5F who may not show up at first, at the northwest corner; come back later to get her if she doesn't show up (It's based on battle count)


Anyway, Japanese wiki is at http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/ (Good luck running it through Google Translate.  As a hint, " Sen Institute plantain flower bells Inaba ") ; there's maps and stuff (First three menus on left are for Main Game; second set are Plus Disk), if you get stumped/driven nuts (See F7...)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 08:52:43 am by Garlyle »
  • Tormod Plays Games

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Inaba Tewi
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2009, 08:38:30 am »
So is it better to buy stats early game or save up and splurge at a high level?

My first game I bought stats early and at a team average of 15 I couldn't beat Youmu.

My second game, I bought stats a bit later, from like level 7, and I beat Youmu with only 1 KO and team average of 12.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2009, 08:44:36 am »
How far are you, Garlyle? Interesting info there, but I thought you were on floor 8-10 just a few days ago?

Also, I find Rumia pretty bad. Getting Yuyuko later on is going to be a bit tiresome after 4 floors of continuous disuse. X_x

Garlyle

  • I can't brain today
  • I have the dumb
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2009, 08:56:10 am »
About to start F10, I haven't been playing too much, but I've been following Poolshmer and double-checking reported info on the wiki.


And WHEN you get stats doesn't matter at all.  Think of stats like this:
(Base Value) x (Multiplier Pecentage)

Base Value is always the same for a character at a given level.  A level 30 Sakuya will always have the same base stats, for instance.

Multiplier is...
100% + (2% per level up bonus in that stat) + (3% per level up via skill points) + (bonuses from equipment)
Yes, this is why 3 "+20% ATK" accessories doesn't add up to a 60% ATK increase - it's a +60 to the multiplier, which, if you're using ATK boosts, is probably already highly boosted by levels and skill points anyway.  This actually means that, much later in the game, elemental affinity and status resistance equipment will be far more important as the effectiveness is far greater in comparison.

And Youmu will either kick you around or be fairly easy depending on your grasp of the battle system
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 09:03:31 am by Garlyle »
  • Tormod Plays Games

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Inaba Tewi
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2009, 09:15:04 am »
Second time round I obviously had a better idea of the system. Oh and I was playing it in English too by then ;D.

That stat boosting makes more sense now. When you first enter Voile at the beginning, Patchy did hint that higher stats would generate more returns. I just assumed that boosting the stat levels later on would add more flat points by comparison.

Garlyle

  • I can't brain today
  • I have the dumb
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2009, 09:20:02 am »
Second time round I obviously had a better idea of the system. Oh and I was playing it in English too by then ;D.

That stat boosting makes more sense now. When you first enter Voile at the beginning, Patchy did hint that higher stats would generate more returns. I just assumed that boosting the stat levels later on would add more flat points by comparison.

That's a completely understandable assumption XD


And... yeah.  Rumia definitely is one of the less useful characters, sadly... T.T;
  • Tormod Plays Games

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2009, 10:36:46 am »
Yeah Youmu owned me on my first attempt.. I think she was just being cheap. Her ghost half poisoned all 4 of my guys on the first move, then youmu managed to paralize hong....Things were very ugly very fast

I tried again without any leveling or whatever. And she was drop dead easy. All because she didn't aoe poison my entire party on turn 1.. UGH.

Edit, While fighting Youmu, I noticed the boss music was the EXACT same as one of the dragon bosses in Hollow world of god. Nobody is probably interested but I always get a kick outta that kinda thing.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 10:39:45 am by Ghaleon »

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
  • Who is it that calls for me?
  • Nickname: Yoshi of Yellow
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2009, 10:40:32 am »
Oh gawd the pain.

Alice just swiftly handed my ass to me. Seriously, how is that even fair.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Inaba Tewi
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2009, 10:42:38 am »
I remember reading somewhere you had to deal with Alice's dolls in a certain order or else you'll get raped anyway.

Garlyle

  • I can't brain today
  • I have the dumb
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2009, 02:58:02 pm »
Alice gets stronger for each doll you take down.  I took down the healer, then spammed mass-target spells so that when the other two went down, Alice was already massively damaged.  Alternatively, take out the healer, and then focus on taking down Alice herself before her dolls.

Alice by herself is utterly destructive.  You won't know this 'till after, but some of her attacks target your DEF, not your MND - so it's perfectly possible for her, despite being a mage, to tear through characters like Patchouli or Minoriko.  It's actually better for you if she's busy spamming Silence attempts or other status effects on your party compared to getting torn through by Little Legion.
(PS: Silence wears off after 3-4 turns if it does get inflicted, so just use the time to Focus and recover SP)


...Also, as of 9F, the game just got officially hard.  Partially because of the rage-inducing bullshit fight with an optional boss there... but also, 10F and up have random enemies with god damn instant death moves.  I'm so damn happy I can cause it right back.


Also, for people's reference, a quick list of 'characters to get' by 10F - I won't spoil WHO, but just the recruit methods, and only for the optional ones, so you can make sure you don't miss anyone.  It's in order of when you can recruit em.

1F - A pretty easy boss fight from a scared girl.
1F - A speedster you had to find three times.
2F - Take a block of ice to get defrosted on 1F.
3F - A roving cloud of darkness.  Make sure to spot it on 1F and 2F first.
4F - Get a small quest on 2F, and take out minibosses that appear on 1F-4F.
5F - Collect lost notebook pages on 1F-5F (one each) and take em to a character on 2F.
5F - An otherwise unremarkable spring.  Return after a crapload of battles for a bossfight.
6F - Just find an event to be joined by someone here.
8F - Meet someone on 7F, and defeat four minibosses on 8F, then go back.
8F - Find an event involving Cirno on each of 2F-8F, defeat a boss at the last one.
9F - Random battle on 7F, Event 7F, Random Battle 8F, Event 8F, Boss on 9F.  RAGE.
9F - You'll need a 1F character recruited for someone to join here.
?F - After getting a total of 20 characters (Everyone from 9F and below), return to a character's location on 8F for a BULLSHIT-difficulty boss battle.

Yeah, that's all the optional characters up to 10F.  Don't expect to get a 9F and 8F character until later though because those boss fights are seriously hard... especially the latter.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 03:08:45 pm by Garlyle »
  • Tormod Plays Games

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Inaba Tewi
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2009, 03:01:39 pm »
I've got Rumia and Wriggle while there's still a gap in the characters list. I assume that's Alice's slot.

Garlyle

  • I can't brain today
  • I have the dumb
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2009, 03:09:47 pm »
I've got Rumia and Wriggle while there's still a gap in the characters list. I assume that's Alice's slot.
Yup.  The order on the list is not always the order they actually become accessible in.
  • Tormod Plays Games
 

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Theme based on ModernDark64 design by BlocWeb
Page created in 0.056 seconds with 22 queries.