Topic: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel  (Read 29781 times)

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Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #90 on: October 30, 2009, 01:55:46 am »
I am actually contractually obligated to be a jerk to people who don't look at board stickies.
That's awesome.
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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #91 on: October 30, 2009, 02:18:39 am »
I'm going to second everything that Alice said.

Start small, but build each little project with a purpose.

I'd not go the Pong / Generic NES game route because it'll not be very interesting to you.
Here is my suggestion. Repurpose your game as a 2D top down shooter like Geometry Wars. This should be doable for someone who is just starting out and is compatible with your general idea. You seem to have way too big of a collection of characters, which is a problem because you are going to need to come up with a way to make all those play differently. Select a handful of characters to play as and implement those to begin with. It seems to me that this would be a very fun game to play if you can get it to work.

I'm going to recommend Pygame because it's what we use for Lost Sky Project. Python is a very easy language to learn and Pygame does all the things that we need to create basically an SNES level game. If you are going that route, I recommend Beginning Game Development with Python and Pygame by Will McGugan. Cocos2D is a popular framework for more demanding 2D games.

You mentioned developing for a console, so I'll address that. Unless you are going to be doing homebrew it is both very difficult and very expensive to start developing on a console. The PC is a much more open and easy to develop for platform.

Last words of advice:
-Good websites for resources: http://www.gamasutra.com/ http://www.gamedev.net/
-Game development is very math heavy. Knowing how to handle vectors is essential. Calculus is also essential. Get to know some important algorithms like interpolation.
-If you are doing any kind of real time movement, a basic knowledge of physics goes a long way. Kinematics is most important like projectile motion and uniform circular motion. Have a good understanding of how things move and what the mathematics behind them is.
-Have patience. Our project is over a year old and we're not even close to finished. This is a very challenging hobby but at the same time it is very rewarding. Good luck!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 02:22:05 am by FawkesGarde »

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Alice

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2009, 04:34:18 am »
I'm going to second everything that Alice said.

Start small, but build each little project with a purpose.

I'd not go the Pong / Generic NES game route because it'll not be very interesting to you.
Here is my suggestion. Repurpose your game as a 2D top down shooter like Geometry Wars. This should be doable for someone who is just starting out and is compatible with your general idea. You seem to have way too big of a collection of characters, which is a problem because you are going to need to come up with a way to make all those play differently. Select a handful of characters to play as and implement those to begin with. It seems to me that this would be a very fun game to play if you can get it to work.

I'm going to recommend Pygame because it's what we use for Lost Sky Project. Python is a very easy language to learn and Pygame does all the things that we need to create basically an SNES level game. If you are going that route, I recommend Beginning Game Development with Python and Pygame by Will McGugan. Cocos2D is a popular framework for more demanding 2D games.

You mentioned developing for a console, so I'll address that. Unless you are going to be doing homebrew it is both very difficult and very expensive to start developing on a console. The PC is a much more open and easy to develop for platform.

Last words of advice:
-Good websites for resources: http://www.gamasutra.com/ http://www.gamedev.net/
-Game development is very math heavy. Knowing how to handle vectors is essential. Calculus is also essential. Get to know some important algorithms like interpolation.
-If you are doing any kind of real time movement, a basic knowledge of physics goes a long way. Kinematics is most important like projectile motion and uniform circular motion. Have a good understanding of how things move and what the mathematics behind them is.
-Have patience. Our project is over a year old and we're not even close to finished. This is a very challenging hobby but at the same time it is very rewarding. Good luck!
I agree on your opinions, however my suggestions is for profit oriented game development. Instead rewrite your code for PC or Console, why not using same framework that can work for both platforms?

I'm suggesting Pong then NES games because of its simplicities. Another games also good, depending on how good your knowledge on algorithm, math, and programming.

In the end, my opinion is based on my knowledge, so if someone has better suggestions, just choose which one is the most suitable with your conditions.

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2009, 04:55:22 am »
I am actually contractually obligated to be a jerk to people who don't look at board stickies.
This is a good point.

Blargel

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2009, 08:40:27 am »
Okay, I just read the first post.

This sounds like a huge and ridiculously complex project. The concept is really good and I like a lot of the ideas, but wow... it's huge.

Since there's already a million things in there, here's another idea you can add (lol). Catalog Mode where Rinnosuke gets his own ASANO. Instead of fighting, the objective is to gather as much data as possible. Think Shoot the Bullet style gameplay throughout a whole stage instead of just bosses. And the camera doesn't clear bullets, but you have bombs to do that if you're in danger.

Every enemy unit you manage to take enough pictures of will unlock stuff like profiles of the enemies. Or something like that.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 08:42:41 am by Blargel »
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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #95 on: October 30, 2009, 03:23:08 pm »
Okay, I just read the first post.

This sounds like a huge and ridiculously complex project. The concept is really good and I like a lot of the ideas, but wow... it's huge.

Since there's already a million things in there, here's another idea you can add (lol). Catalog Mode where Rinnosuke gets his own ASANO. Instead of fighting, the objective is to gather as much data as possible. Think Shoot the Bullet style gameplay throughout a whole stage instead of just bosses. And the camera doesn't clear bullets, but you have bombs to do that if you're in danger.

Every enemy unit you manage to take enough pictures of will unlock stuff like profiles of the enemies. Or something like that.
I like this idea. Just so everyone knows...
Okay... I'll be in my corner... over there... alone... watching... always watching...

Alrisandre Margaletrisame

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #96 on: October 30, 2009, 03:26:49 pm »
I am actually contractually obligated to be a jerk to people who don't look at board stickies.

Ah. No wonder. I haven't looked at the board stickies since the topic was moved. Thanks for the indirect reminder.

Alrisandre Margaletrisame

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #97 on: October 30, 2009, 03:32:07 pm »
Okay, I just read the first post.

This sounds like a huge and ridiculously complex project. The concept is really good and I like a lot of the ideas, but wow... it's huge.

Since there's already a million things in there, here's another idea you can add (lol). Catalog Mode where Rinnosuke gets his own ASANO. Instead of fighting, the objective is to gather as much data as possible. Think Shoot the Bullet style gameplay throughout a whole stage instead of just bosses. And the camera doesn't clear bullets, but you have bombs to do that if you're in danger.

Every enemy unit you manage to take enough pictures of will unlock stuff like profiles of the enemies. Or something like that.

Win! Idea noted in my project book!

Addition to idea: To add difficulty to this mode, stages aren't selectable. Surviving is key.

Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #98 on: October 30, 2009, 04:41:41 pm »
Do not EVER remove convenience in the name of "adding difficulty." It will frustrate players instead of challenging them. There are MUCH better ways of making things more difficult and they should be tried first.
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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #99 on: October 30, 2009, 08:26:48 pm »
Why do you fuck up Rika's Garage what did we do to you

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #100 on: October 30, 2009, 09:12:35 pm »
Do not EVER remove convenience in the name of "adding difficulty." It will frustrate players instead of challenging them. There are MUCH better ways of making things more difficult and they should be tried first.

Seconding this a million times. The goal of the game designer is to present a challenge that is enjoyable to the player.

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Alrisandre Margaletrisame

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #101 on: October 31, 2009, 03:45:12 pm »
YAY!! My C++ book came today! This means I won't be online as much for a while during the time I am reading and studying. Kit offered to take over the minor updates in here when he's not busy.


Do not EVER remove convenience in the name of "adding difficulty." It will frustrate players instead of challenging them. There are MUCH better ways of making things more difficult and they should be tried first.

Thus would be the purpose of beta testing.
And to agree with what you have said:
Due to the amount of stages in story mode alone, I realize that removing "stage select" would be stupid on my part. Also since the various characters have some stages that are unique to that character's story. (Although not ALL characters have a story mode. A majority of the unlockables will be for other modes.) Anyway, to contradict previous suggestion; "Catalog Mode" will offer stage select, but more towards as one stage is completed, the next becomes available, and so on.

So. Below statement has been nullified:
Addition to idea: To add difficulty to this mode, stages aren't selectable. Surviving is key.

At this point, because I may be inactive for larger periods of time, I would like to extend thanks to people who have helped, even if it was indirectly, just in case something happens and I am unable to return as I would like:

Thanks to Alice and Toast for pointing me in the directions I need to make Luminous Wings of Cold Steel a reality for Touhou fan enjoyment. I hope that I can ask you two questions as I learn C++ and software operation, and pray that you might have patience for my probably stupid questions.

Thanks to Edible for the unorthodox method of encouragement.

Thanks to KimikoMuffin for being there to point out bad ideas. I hope you don't mind my asking that this continue?
Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #102 on: October 31, 2009, 03:55:01 pm »
Lol, good luck.
Keep in mind a project like this could take years. But you have my regards if you pull this off. Prove the community wrong!

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #103 on: October 31, 2009, 04:07:03 pm »
-snip-

No thanks for me, I see. Anyway, I thought I would make fun of you now.

What should I do to bring this nutty girl back to reality? She's gotten to where she even takes material to the SHOWER. She got in trouble at school the other day because she bitched a teacher out for making (what she took to be) an ill comment about "unrealistic dreams from a girl with her head in the clouds". In her defense on that part, this particular teacher is notorious for being an ass, and can't keep his mouth shut. Apparently, Mr. "Sensei" (as I'll call him), was talking with the principal about Ally's falling grades since first mentioning this game around a month ago. Ally stood up in class and began loudly arguing with Mr. Sensei about her intents and goals, as well as the difference between goals and dreams. Now, I also know that Ally is several TIMES more intelligent than the majority of the people in this entire town, but things got dumb, and I wound up having to leave work and take her home. She was pissed. Still is, rather, but refuses to let anyone see it. I don't want to piss her off any more, because I really want to see her game become playable. Mostly because I want to play as Cirno in story mode, but also because it will make her the happiest little fuzzball I've seen in a long time. Help me out?

Edit due to new post:
Lol, good luck.
Keep in mind a project like this could take years. But you have my regards if you pull this off. Prove the community wrong!

Things like this make her smile. And she says "Thanks".
(Oddly, her encounters with Edible also made her smile... but that particular smile invoked fear into me. It was like an insane Flandre-grin!)
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Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #104 on: October 31, 2009, 05:57:18 pm »
*facepalm*

Well, at the moment, this is clearly more "dream" than "goal." All we've seen so far is "ideas," rather than anything concrete. "It looks good on paper" is worth absolutely nothing. And as several people have pointed out, if you have no experience with anything except "coming up with ideas," and you want to make a game of this size, you are in way, way, WAY, WAY, WAY over your head, and honestly, you literally have no hope whatsoever of bringing it to its conclusion.

If this "idea" is actually harming her IRL to the extent that she goes into a screaming argument with an authority figure when she doesn't even directly mention it, and before she even has anything to show for it (nothing in this thread counts as "anything to show for it"), I think she really needs to get rid of it.

If you truly want to be the voice of reason, and aren't just a sock puppet, do what you can to get her off this pipe-dream she calls a "project."
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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #105 on: October 31, 2009, 06:09:53 pm »
People need faith, without faith the world will decend into chaos..Kanako is mad with the low faith level here.. YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #106 on: October 31, 2009, 06:18:57 pm »
It's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of physically not possible.
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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #107 on: October 31, 2009, 06:19:34 pm »
Willpower alone is not enough, unless you are piloting a super robot.

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #108 on: November 01, 2009, 01:00:56 pm »
now stop talking and actually do something, you
and get rid of your schitzophrenia too please

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #109 on: November 02, 2009, 03:05:28 am »
What should I do to bring myself back to reality? I've gotten to where I even take material to the SHOWER.  I got in trouble at school the other day because I bitched a teacher out for making (what I took to be) an ill comment about "unrealistic dreams from a girl with her head in the clouds".  In my defense on that part, this particular teacher is notorious for being an ass, and can't keep his mouth shut. Apparently, Mr. "Sensei" (as I'll call him), was talking with the principal about my falling grades since first mentioning this game around a month ago. I stood up in class and began loudly arguing with Mr. Sensei about my intents and goals, as well as the difference between goals and dreams.  Now, I also know that I am several TIMES more intelligent than the majority of the people in this entire town, but things got dumb, and I wound up having to leave school and go home. I was pissed. Still am, rather, but I refuse to let anyone see it. I don't want to be pissed off any more, because I really want to see my game become playable. Mostly because I want to play as Cirno in story mode, but also because it will make me the happiest little fuzzball I've seen in a long time. Help me out?

Cool story, bro.

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #110 on: November 02, 2009, 03:56:36 am »
You're never giving up on that, are you?

Kitaen Silva

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #111 on: November 02, 2009, 10:39:14 pm »
-more "dream" than "goal."
Well, at least someone agrees. Telling her as much is a whole 'nother story.

"It looks good on paper" is worth absolutely nothing.
also:
-no experience with anything except "coming up with ideas,"
-is exactly why I urged her to NOT post this in MotK, but she wound up convincing me that her intent was to find out everything she needed to learn, which I agreed with and figured might actually help. (I had warned her that this was very likely to cause an uproar, but noo, don't listen to the one that has had more experience in life and etc.) Until she and the team were better prepared for this undertaking, and also had the EQUIPMENT for studio anything, there is nothing more than "It looks good on paper".

you literally have no hope whatsoever of bringing it to its conclusion.
On this, however, I disagree. I am becoming involved in this design project, and although that doesn't mean anything until something comes of it, I do intend to put effort into this. It may not be what she has envisioned with all these "modes" and "unlockables" (That really should and would be better spread across more than one game) but it should be something.
If this "idea" is actually harming her IRL to the extent that she goes into a screaming argument with an authority figure when she doesn't even directly mention it, and before she even has anything to show for it (nothing in this thread counts as "anything to show for it"), I think she really needs to get rid of it.
I'm not sure if "getting rid of it" is really a good suggestion, nor all that plausible, as ideas don't just 'go away', but I do agree with it in the sense that it needs to be put on a back burner, or even stored away until a more opportune time. Her priorities are worse off than my own.
If you truly want to be the voice of reason, and aren't just a sock puppet, do what you can to get her off this pipe-dream she calls a "project."
Easier said than done, but I'm quite imaginative... I'll come up with something. I do fear that my efforts on this will be in vain... in December when I purchase this computer, that's going to be the first thing she does is load it up with these programs and immediately fall on her face. Not that even THAT will stop her. So, let's see what I can do without utterly pissing her off and losing her help entirely.
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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #112 on: November 02, 2009, 10:57:40 pm »
So... it's over then? Well that's just great. If I'd know it was going to end like this, (though I really should have seen it coming) I would not have bothered to register. There's really nothing else for me to do here, as I know next to nothing about Touhou. Guess it's just time to sigh and walk away...

Kitaen Silva

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #113 on: November 02, 2009, 10:59:43 pm »
First step in drama removal: This topic can be deleted/locked. It is as everyone says; a series of ideas with no 'proof of concept'. When things get further, and something comes of this, I will allow her to make a more serious thread about it.

To Lant: As far as I know, Ally is still intending to regularly access, but she's been studying that goofy book she got and hasn't even so much as looked at th computer.
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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #114 on: November 02, 2009, 11:07:53 pm »
Well, that doesn't really help me none. I'm still not a Touhou fan (yet), and have no clue what to do and/or talk about here.

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Re: Touhou "_______"; Luminous Wings of Cold Steel
« Reply #115 on: November 02, 2009, 11:09:14 pm »
If you have any interest in Touhou, why not start exploring the boards? This is a Touhou forum, and since you're using "yet," I assume you're at least interested.
 

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