Topic: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou  (Read 509 times)

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Ctrekoz

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Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« on: July 23, 2019, 07:44:44 am »
Things like   ̀  in names and japanese words is an emphasis for the right reading;
There is a lot of text, so don't rush and read everything carefully and attentively - it is worth it, and here is everything I want you to know. Please, this is my lifework.


Sorry for the clickbait. Of course, even if you make a dammaku game with better visuals, gameplay, lore and etc. than in Touhou, you can't really believe to rival such a colossal media franchise with more than 22 years of history by making just one game, right? But everything begins with something...

Anyway, to the point:
Greetings. I'm writer working on concepts of a dammaku game which is named "Maiden Deity: The Dragonfly's Dreams", and productive worktime is around 11 months so far, doing 95% of things solo. This game set in completely different universe with different characters, but, mostly in terms of game design, inspired greatly by Touhou (but not only by it), so this is the best place for me to make such a post. Also, this is not Len'en-like parody, but completely serious and different project. While game universe is also greatly inspired by Touhou, it has significant differences in details, as well as some completely unique ideas compared to it. Further, all characters are original completely, not a bit inspired by the universe of ZUN, even whatever similarities you may find, being very interesting and unique in all of their aspects, be it bio, design and etc., which I will show you below.

To remain interested, look at this (you can zoom art to see every detail, just wait for its full loading):
- Sketch of the 1st boss, kijimùna Shaggygа̀icho (wings will be removed);
- Almost final art of the 2nd boss, mermaid Lady Yvѐtta Mizushì (will be number of changes, most importantly more lush tail) and her planned musical theme which will be renamed to "Surpassing Elegance ~ Splatter Dance". Currently I do not have rights on this song, but I plan to discuss it with the composer.

Current state of the team:
1. Me - team lead; producing and publishing; writing; gameplay\level\character\music design; community management; advertising; russian and english translation;
2. Characters' portraits artist and designer, who done, for now, only 2 arts that you saw, and will continue to work only when I will form the rest of the team. His style and methods of work are perfect for me, so I don't need another man on this position;
3. I have composer and sound designer in mind (maybe you know Sylvysprit). Last time we spoke, she was interested to work with me, but we discussed only schedule and prices. I want to make a "big talk" only after forming the rest of the team.
I'm looking for: 1) programmers of everything; 2) artists of backgrounds, sprites, interface, and the like; 3) gameplay and level designers. Also, even if you can't directly help in development, I welcome opinions, critique, proposals and etc. about my concepts and\or my way of work. Even if you will just say that "I like your character X a lot", it will already help me - however, I much more prefer elaborate opinions.

To gain more of your interest, I will show you below: 1) A Short overview of game's characters, levels and music; 2) Short overview of the game universe in comparison with Touhou; 3) Features of the project; 4) Concepts of the game's universe, main heroine and first 3 levels (including midbosses, bosses, attacks and etc.); 5) Notes to programmers, artists, composer\sound designer, payment standing and thoughts on the success of the project.

Important!
- Everything is spoiler-free;
- Please, pay high attention to the notes (to the right of the documents - just click on brown text to see a proper note), hyperlinks, and also, you can use Table of contents to the left;
- Main Heroine and 3rd boss currently don't have a sketch or art, but you may read about their visual design and look at design references;
- Even if you will not be impressed by, let's say, Main Heroine, and will think "nah, priestess bla-bla-bla", please read about other characters - currently, I am most proud of 3rd boss. Everyone has different tastes, but I also offer a variety of character types;
- Main Heroine's and Levels' concepts have Shorten and Full versions. Choose Shorten first (highly recommended) if you want to read less text and not interested in very specific game design details and text description of visual design of first 2 bosses;
- There is too much of inspirational music to listen at once and some compositions are looped, so you may left most of the compositions for later;
- Remember that english is not my main language, so maybe some wordings in these files are not perfectly beautiful, mostly regarding character's bio. It can be worked out, of course.


General
1. A Short overview of game characters, levels and music
2. To break your bias about "Touhou clone", let me give you a Short overview of the game universe in comparison with Touhou
3. Features of the project

Game universe
1. "Prehistory"
2. "Deities and other mystical creatures"
3. "Spirit"
4. "Spirit Battles"

Main Heroine
1. Shorten
2. Full
3. Design references

Level 1
1. Shorten
2. Full
3. Sketch of the boss (wings will be removed)
4. Design references

Level 2
1. Shorten
2. Full
3. Almost final art of the boss (will be number of changes, most importantly more lush tail)
4. Her planned musical theme
5. Design references

Level 3
Here I decided to leave only Full version, so be prepared for 14 pages
1. Full
2. Design references

Development notes
1. Notes to programmers
2. Notes to artists
3. Notes to composer\sound designer
4. Payment
5. Thoughts on the success of the project

A lot of writing is done beyond the first Main Hero and 3 levels, but there is no sense to place it here (around 48 more pages currently, compared to 42 pages of content that I provided right here not counting documents in General and Development notes sections). Approximately 85% of full game writing is done.
If you are interested, here is the overview of current writing and music progress, i'm not hiding anything.
In any case, the closest goal right now is to make a demo with first 1-3 levels to allow crowdfunding, and for this writing is done fully - while making demo, I will, obviously, continue my work. Even 11 months was not enough, heh, but i'm close.

Contacts
Maiden Deity's Discord
My Twitter
Discord - Ctrekoz#5174
Or write a message here

Thank you.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 01:59:41 pm by Ctrekoz »

Ctrekoz

  • Neophyte
  • Nickname: Dreaming Dragonfly
  • Gender: Male
Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 08:05:28 am »
Please, I really need your feedback. I'm never going to abandon this project - I can pause it, but not forget completely, and then resume my work again. I will see it successful eventually.

Pitch is too long? Content about game universe, about characters, levels, art, music is too hidden, i.e. I should do something more "visualized" instead of text and text+hyperlinks? Maybe you are interested, but do not want to work for free? If so, then how much money do I need to accumulate? Maybe you didn't saw bold text+hyperlink on which you can click to open the latter? Maybe I need to buy more music and art to show? Maybe you did read things and can give me feedback from just player, not developer, perspective, i.e. "X is very interesting"? Maybe you want to discuss lore of the game universe or characters? Maybe you want to see spoilers?

All this writing is of enormous quality, even being not 100% finished yet, and it's not just for me, it's something to make other people happy too, to inspire them, to contribute to culture, and I eventually will make it live. I need to know ways to improve.

Also, kinda offtopic question: why there is so many eastern Touhou fangames, so much effort put in something like FDF, Gensou Shoujo Taisen, Labyrinth of Touhou, Touhou Puppet Dance Perfomance, Koumajou Densetsu, and etc.? Is this impossible in western community? Don't consider this as blaming, I'm just really curious - so many teams and quality Touhou games from eastern developers, but I can't come up with much examples from western side.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 09:58:18 am by Ctrekoz »

close2none64

  • Nickname: Pyke Master
Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2019, 03:32:52 am »
I think it's interesting, but I don't know of anyway to help. These characters seem interesting. I want to see this project become a reality as well, I just can't help, I can't make things with good quality. I am also busy with things.

theSlug

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  • Nickname: TalesPGrechi
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Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2019, 02:44:55 pm »
My first impression was "wow, that's a lot of text!" witch I think is a good thing, we can really see effort in everything you had write, and I would try to keep the last 15% in this level of detais/ describment. Although I didn't read all the documents, I liked the main character and the bosses.

However, I know that just one wall of good text won't be enough to catch all people's attention. crowdfunding might be a good idea, but  you should do something more "visualized" as you said on your second post.

I would focus on the demo so people can clearly see what you have done and how you "passed" that content in your game.

(english is not my main language too, so I apologize if I said something unclear)

GenoCraft

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Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2019, 03:28:08 pm »
That's a lot of text you've posted, and regardless if it's a good read or not, when confronted with that much text just out of nowhere most people would rather do something else with their time. If you do indeed manage to release a demo, people will play it, and if they find it interesting they might be curious to learn about the lore, but for now you're basically saying "here's pages and pages of stuff I wrote, read it, you'll like it".

I hope that didn't come off as rude, that was certainly not the intention. But good lore needs something to get people interested, and a ridiculous clickbait title and walls of text don't work.

Ctrekoz

  • Neophyte
  • Nickname: Dreaming Dragonfly
  • Gender: Male
Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2019, 06:04:50 pm »
Thank you for the answers. Of course your point is totally fair.

All I can show right now except writing is this:
Quote
To remain interested, look at this (you can zoom art to see every detail, just wait for its full loading):
- Sketch of the 1st boss, kijimùna Shaggygа̀icho (wings will be removed);
- Almost final art of the 2nd boss, mermaid Lady Yvѐtta Mizushì (will be number of changes, most importantly more lush tail) and her planned musical theme which will be renamed to "Surpassing Elegance ~ Splatter Dance". Currently I do not have rights on this song, but I plan to discuss it with the composer.
Aslo, you can see design references and listen to musical inspirations at links to a corresponding Concepts (references are in "Pictures" folder, music is in the end of the text Concepts themselves, in "Inspiration" category). I agree that this is "hidden" stuff, but it is bad to look at this things out of context. Or maybe I should put design references and inspirational music at separate hyperlinks to be more visible?

I have to pay a lot of money to have more music and art which I can't do exactly right now (in foreseeable future I want to comission final versions of full height art of Yuriko and Saiko), and as for programming, I can't do it myself in any rate, even roughly. I've spend 11 productive months (i.e. counting each day of a good work) already for writing, design, translation, seeking team, other stuff, and even then it is not 100% done, and I still have a lot to do even in the field in which I have skill. I think you can imagine how much time and energy I need to spend to learn programming from scratch, granted that I have a lot of other concerns, my health is not good and you cannot always have unlimited spare time - I think it is a lot better to finally find a job instead and use my money for better living as well as to spend them on this project. My hope right now is to find enthusiatic people who can do even rough programming, and maybe we can work something out and then gather more people with it. As said in documents, there is no any pressure or deadlines.

Quote
...and I would try to keep the last 15% in this level of detais/ describment
Oh, I didn't understood that part.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 07:20:11 pm by Ctrekoz »

theSlug

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Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2019, 12:00:21 am »
Oh, I didn't understood that part.

I meant your text is fine and you should continue like that

Ctrekoz

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  • Nickname: Dreaming Dragonfly
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Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2019, 08:00:09 am »
Ah, I understand now. Well, that is why it is not fully done yet :). Anyway, for example, first 4th and both 5th levels are almost fully fledged-out, including bosses, music design, dialogues and such, shape of extra boss (including name, bio, abilities, place in the whole story, design and etc.) and second version of 4th level is definetily set, but I need to expand some things, same for endings and 2nd playable character story. Oh, believe me, the second final boss is something damn incredible and, spoiler, dark, this is one of the most favorite characters of mine alongside Lady Yvetta and Saiko. Others are nice too of course, but who you will like more depends on your taste. Well, first 3 levels and lore documents are done fully, while the rest of the writing is almost done.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 11:17:25 am by Ctrekoz »

Ctrekoz

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  • Nickname: Dreaming Dragonfly
  • Gender: Male
Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2019, 08:01:11 am »
By the way, here is some interesting answers on some questions about lore and characters: https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/cgplto/development_of_a_dammaku_game_that_can_rival/eula3gn/

starks

  • Neophyte
Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2019, 07:33:49 pm »
Quote
Also, kinda offtopic question: why there is so many eastern Touhou fangames, so much effort put in something like FDF, Gensou Shoujo Taisen, Labyrinth of Touhou, Touhou Puppet Dance Perfomance, Koumajou Densetsu, and etc.? Is this impossible in western community? Don't consider this as blaming, I'm just really curious - so many teams and quality Touhou games from eastern developers, but I can't come up with much examples from western side.

This is bullshit. A good chunk of the great fangames or trials over the past year have been western. Just to name a select few...

Analogue Reverie: Dream Logical World
Team Dreamcatcher: Servants of Harvest Wish
Team Urban Mimzie: Sapphire Panlogism
Τeam αlternative Σnding: Glory of Deep Skies, Unification of the Artful Rain
Ephemeral Entertainment: Ephemeral Unnatural Balance
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 04:02:31 am by starks »

Ctrekoz

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  • Nickname: Dreaming Dragonfly
  • Gender: Male
Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2019, 06:13:26 pm »
I've made some updates to pitch in overall and to formatting of documents, but most importantly, design references now have separate hyperlinks, and now each text document is hyperlinked to Google Docs instead of Drive, so you can see Table of contents to the left, proper formatting, and in overall documents are much easier to read, you don't need to manually open them for this on Docs anymore.

About western fan games my question was aimed not on just dammaku scripts (which are great), but on something more "big", as was shown by examples provided. Yes, FDF is a dammaku game, but it's made on custom engine (or it's just Unity?) and sells on Steam.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 07:31:29 pm by Ctrekoz »

GenoCraft

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Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2019, 07:05:20 pm »
The western Touhou community is much, much smaller than the Japanese and Chinese ones, and I'd say it's also less united, but I'm not sure. Anyways, the number of people with the knowledge and dedication to make a game is obviously much smaller, especially without such an easy-to-learn engine like Danmakufu.

By the way, it's daNmaku, not daMmaku.

Helepolis

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Re: Development of a dammaku game that can rival Touhou
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2019, 05:53:26 am »
From my own personal experience: In my entire life, where I was partaking in a game's community which also had fan work, I've never seen a project started or completed where the "project leader" was not actively developing along.

Come to think of it, my entire lifetime here on Shrinemaiden I haven't seen any similar sized project here succeed (which is now over 10 years)

 

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