MotK 3: Dead Townies [Day 2]

[SB]

In addition, I shall reference Polaris' earlier post [27] and submit a formal request for SB to provide clarification regarding his actions as his prior posts [28] [29] have been non-conducive to the continuation of the game as well and may be construed as negligence if action is not taken.

I voted Serela because having more votes on the same person is better than spreading them around because you turn them into an issue. I was kind of hoping that someone would put Serela down to L-1 because it was definitely going to force someone to form a real stance, but saying it out loud kind of diminishes the effect.

Posting at BT was basically "I acknowledge your vote but don't really have anything to say about it." I don't think the third vote on the wagon comment leans either way because it's a valid thing to explore considering the drought of relevant  content, but it's also easy to fake as scum. Speaking of shortages, did you know that MotK has had a mafia game drought for over two years? Regardless, I'm not feeling great about the BT wagon because I can see where his actions are coming from and I feel like his posts are being taken heavily out of context. It feels like he's being scapegoated pretty hard here.

I'm not keen on Serela's initial reaction to being L-1ed because it's very much a kneejerk reaction that I don't think properly read into BT's posts (considering he stated that he didn't want to vote Polly earlier). It feels like he was relying on the L-1 thing to carry his vote without really thinking about if it was scummy or not. I'm nullish on their later posts; I think it's reasonable to not have a lot of stances, but at the same time I wouldn't absolve them for it because scum struggle create something out of ED1 than townies do.

I'm inclined to scumread PX for his fakevote on Serela though. It's not about the fact that he did the fakevote (because I would have pulled the same thing while I was around), but it's more about the manner in which he did it. Mentioning "who is paying attention" basically spoils the reaction test from the beginning, and they don't really take a stance on Serela or BT's interaction. I don't like them waiting around on the sidelines.

The tour will resume shortly. Take a short break in the shade and remember to stay hydrated in the meantime!

[SB]

PX/Dormio wouldn't surprise me actually, but I need a little time away from researching the local area to eat something.

[BT]

I'm voting Zakeri, not Serela. I'm also going to the morgue soon because deadline is in nine hours, which is illuminating.

[SB]

I'm voting Zakeri, not Serela. I'm also going to the morgue soon because deadline is in nine hours, which is illuminating.

Did you know that I have BBM level reading skills?

Thoughts on PX/Dormio (and yes, I know I still need to verbalise my feelings on the latter)? I don't feel strongly about Zak either way atm but I'll give him another look over after Dormio.

[BT]

I don't know enough about PX, and I didn't think his vote was that bad. I could consolidate onto him, if that's what ends up happening.
As for Dormio, I thought he was fine, but the more I think about his case on me, the more it seems warped and constructed to throw me into the river, cause severe rhinorrhea, and ultimately, death.

[SB]

Dormio's recent post is half fine (I'm okay with everything before his vote comes in) but his suspicions don't feel genuine to me because they feel sort of arbitrary. "BT isn't doing much to find scum", paraphrased, is a half-truth because it wasn't wrong at the time Dormio had posted, but at he same time BT had made more moves to shake up the gamestate than anyone else. It felt like he tried too hard to justify keeping his vote after BT provided more content. I think Dormio was worried about changing his vote because he didn't have a good way off the wagon and he would caught out for doing it.

Also his PX scumread could kind of universally apply to any lurker and isn't very committal anyway.

I had admittedly slightly misread his post at first and so idk if I'd throw out Dormio/PX anymore, but individually I don't like either.

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio

I'd like to get some more work done while there are less people in the house, so I'm leaving off here for now. I want to reexamine Zak because BT's summary of why he was voting there seemed good but I didn't feel anything strongly about his posts when I first read them.

Did you know that Walmart has a lower acceptance rate than Harvard (2.6% compared to 8.9%)?

I'll be around near deadline.

[Raikaria]

Praise the Lord; we have 7 hours remaining of this first most wonderous day. It'll take up until the twilight hour of Midnight, but I shall be present to witness the Angels carry off whoever we elect.

I believe now is a good time to sum up my current thoughts on everyone. In the player list order, as written in a holy scripture by the GM, who I can only assume is God Mighty. His middle name being Al, of course.

1: Zakeri - As I explained before; I do not approve of his lack of reasoning for his vote, although I agreed that something seemed slightly off at time with BT. Since this event, Zakeri has been absent, and has overall contributed nothing of any value. This is why I felt the need to call him out for hiding at the back of the choir earlier.

In fact, the biggest condemnation I can find in what Zakeri has done so far is this confession directed at myself:

Monsieur Raikaria, I fear dze point you may have addressed may counter dze post I just made, how-eh-Vehr, I will stand by my action.

Dzat iz to say, Dze point of 'ow we are in-no-dan-ger of dze day ending earleah.

I get the impression, from this confession, that his motive for voting BT was simply for [What he thought] was an L-1 on Serela. And yet, despite acknowledging my point that his reason for his vote is no longer valid, he stands by it. A vote for someone who you cannot find a sin to condemn them for is a sinful action in itself. What's more, the initial reason for voting was guilty of the sin of Sloth.

2: ActionDan - Possibly the 2nd most sinful lurker in this congregation. I doubt many people would object to a cry of Amen when it comes to condemning the lurker, but I would rather search for sin then resort to a lynch on purely lurking.

3: Polaris: This is my first chance to talk about the lamb known as Polly. I must firstly give an Amen to his statement regarding Serela:

serela, mon cherry, you're already showing a pattern of reactionary "responding only to people that suspect you"

However, I do find it a little bit bizarre that he only asked for opinions regarding Zakeri and myself. Admittedly, not many people had confessed other than us two at that point, but pressing on the BT vote beyond... what is it the lambs call it... OMGUS would perhaps have made me a little more confident. This is but a minor gripe however.

4: Serela

As Serela withdraws into the shadows; the topic having shifted away from him, my suspicion grows. The aformentioned confession from Polaris niggles in the back of my mind. What have you done except respond, my child? Looking back, I see nothing... proactive. While the Good Book does say let he without sin throw the first stone, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. And the little would-be waffle seems to only be returning ocular blows.

5: My opinion on Dormio has not changed since my previous post concerning him. In part because he has not added to the congressional conversation. This however is not sinful. He has been actively confessing after all.

6: BT has addressed my concerns and clarified on the post I highlighted. This was my main suspicion for a case of serpent's tongue.

7: SB - I'm unsure what to make of his recent Dormio vote. 'Half-Fine' seems superior to unhelpful or nothing at all. Also; while I agree with his suspicion on PX, I fail to see where the idea of PX/Dormio specifically as a scumteam comes from. Is it not too soon to be throwing around such wild accusations? Especially when one half of this combination has hardly done anything as of yet?

Still; a lack of me agreeing on all points does not mean judgement of sin. Being wrong is not a sin. If anything, it shows a virtue of Diligence.

8: Obviously; as the leader of his congregation, and the one in charge of the confessional booth, I am beyond suspicion of myself. By the way, the confessional booth is open. One merely needs to ask for access to confess their sins to me.

9: PX - *Attempts to light candles in the dark corner of the Church PX is hiding in*

---

However, I am currently of the opinion that, as bad as the lurkers are, someone who only pipes up when their own lives are in danger, and is showing no attempt to find sin, only retaliation, is of little help to us. I was interested to see how Serela would continue on without being pressured. Apparently; the answer is he would not participate. Unlike the other inactive players, who are merely guilty of Sloth, Serela is currently guilty of Wrath and Sloth.

And as such, I feel it is time to change the candidate of condemnation.

##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

[Raikaria]

Also on the topic of SB and Diligence, I find the fact he is pushing on the more active Dormio rather than the lurker PX a positive sign, as we are more likely to get useful information as a result. Virtues are looked upon kindly by the Lord.

So while I do not agree with his PX+Dormio theory, I can appreciate him going for Dormio over the easier lynch in PX.

[Raikaria]

And so that the congregation knows for the purposes of consolidation, my current Top 3 priority for condemnation to the Fire Below is:

Serela > Zakeri = PX

[SB]

"Half fine" means that while parts of Dormio's content didn't bother me, I wasn't getting any kind of townvibes from it either. I think it's easier for scum to post about why they don't scumread someone, because they don't have to lie there, but I don't feel as comfortable with his scumreads and that's why I'm voting him.

My initial misread involved thinking that Dormio had three scumreads because the first time I skimmed his post I thought he was also scumreading me (helped by the fact that he mentioned me later on). I didn't feel like he was actually pushing PX very hard, but he singled him out over Zak and based on my other reads (knowing I'm town, townreading BT) it felt like the PX read was just there as a distancing thing because I felt like it was unlikely that Dormio pushed 3 townies, and also it kind of added up because I scumread both of them individually.

I don't necessarily buy into it any more though after reading it over again. It could still be a thing but I'm not gonna actively push it. Also I'm going to look at Zak again (tbh the french is offputting to he point that my eyes glaze over his already short posts).

Did you know that a person with pogonophobia, has a fear of beards?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Given that it has been approximately 26 hours since PX's latest post [20], I motion to make use of rule 6 [30] and shall ##DeLurk: PX.
I am preparing another post to accompany this one.


[20] Serela your responses are not helping so I shall be here to help instead! (...) Now let's see how many people aren't paying attention to the game
[30] 6. ##DeLurk: [player] in case someone's been lurking too much. Once ##DeLurk'd by 50%+1 of the living players, a player is up for Mod Kill at the end of the Day Phase. This Mod Kill does not replace the Lynch, and can only be stopped by ##Amnesty by DeLurking players. Example:

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

The first thing that I intend to address here is SB's posts [31] [32] regarding myself and my supposed scumreads on himself and PX.
Now, SB has accused me of inaction regarding building a case towards himself and PX at the time.
I object to this accusation and present the rebuttal that I found it difficult to act with virtually no evidence at the time. In fact, in PX's case, the fact of the matter is that there is still a single piece of evidence damning him and he has yet to present any evidence in order to defend himself as per my prior requests [33] [34] and this inaction on PX's behalf has led to my most recent submission to the moderator [35] regarding his eligibility to participate within this game.
I am preparing another post to accompany this one.


[20] Serela your responses are not helping so I shall be here to help instead! (...) Now let's see how many people aren't paying attention to the game
[31] Also his PX scumread could kind of universally apply to any lurker and isn't very committal anyway.
[32] My initial misread involved thinking that Dormio had three scumreads because the first time I skimmed his post I thought he was also scumreading me (helped by the fact that he mentioned me later on). I didn't feel like he was actually pushing PX very hard, but he singled him out over Zak and based on my other reads (knowing I'm town, townreading BT) it felt like the PX read was just there as a distancing thing because I felt like it was unlikely that Dormio pushed 3 townies, and also it kind of added up because I scumread both of them individually.
[33] PX's behaviors [20] also display a similar level of apathy however given that he has only made the one post he may still be acting within rule 3 [1] and so I intend on pursuing this line of thought at a later time.
[34] Secondly with regards to PX as others, including myself, have already mentioned [23a] [24a] [24b] [25] [26] PX's conduct has been less than what most would deem satisfactory. I, therefore, submit a formal request to PX that he provide clarification with regards to his actions lest he face charges of criminal negligence.
[35] Given that it has been approximately 26 hours since PX's latest post [20], I motion to make use of rule 6 [30] and shall ##DeLurk: PX.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

The second item on the agenda that I intend to address this session is an update to my thoughts with regard to SB given that he has recently submitted further evidence for review [36] [37].
With [36], I would have said in the past that I fail to see this as an effective gambit given that everyone participating within this game should have read the rules prior to the game starting and should have been aware of how the lynch mechanic within this particular game differs from the lynch mechanic of previous games. However, I have also witnessed Serela's reaction [13] and, though I do not wish to admit it, it would appear as though some of us did not use the additional time given to us before the game started to study the rules in further detail. Therefore, whilst misguided, I feel that SB's statement [36] serves as adequate justification for his prior actions.
Now, regarding [37], I feel that this is, again, misguided effort on SB's part. Until my doubts have been adequately addressed, I see no reason to move my vote.


[13] Actually, seriously, why is this? BT just threw a fourth vote on me with nothing more than "let's see what this does!" He had more of a reason to vote Polly but he didn't feel like it, so he jumped on the big fat bandwagon literally Just Because! Hmmmmm...
[36] I voted Serela because having more votes on the same person is better than spreading them around because you turn them into an issue. I was kind of hoping that someone would put Serela down to L-1 because it was definitely going to force someone to form a real stance, but saying it out loud kind of diminishes the effect.
[37] It felt like he tried too hard to justify keeping his vote after BT provided more content. I think Dormio was worried about changing his vote because he didn't have a good way off the wagon and he would caught out for doing it.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

In addendum to my prior posts [35] [38] [39], given that there has been a precedent of participants within this game not having a full understanding of the rules, I shall provide a reminder that a total of FIVE (5) DeLurks are required for the motion to pass during the first Day Phase as per rule 6 [30].
As I have already introduced the motion to DeLurk PX, a further FOUR (4) players must agree to the motion before it is passed.


[30] 6. ##DeLurk: [player] in case someone's been lurking too much. Once ##DeLurk'd by 50%+1 of the living players, a player is up for Mod Kill at the end of the Day Phase. This Mod Kill does not replace the Lynch, and can only be stopped by ##Amnesty by DeLurking players. Example:
[35] Given that it has been approximately 26 hours since PX's latest post [20], I motion to make use of rule 6 [30] and shall ##DeLurk: PX.
[38] The first thing that I intend to address here is SB's posts [31] [32] regarding myself and my supposed scumreads on himself and PX.
[39] he second item on the agenda that I intend to address this session is an update to my thoughts with regard to SB given that he has recently submitted further evidence for review [36] [37].

[Polaris]

SB (1): ActionDan
Dormio (1): SB
Serela (2): PX, Raikaria
BT (4): Serela, Zakeri, Polaris, Dormio
Zakeri (1): BT

oh my god there isn't enough thyme left to unravel this
wait thyme isn't a fruit hold on

oh my god there isn't enough lime left to unravel this (yep that makes perfect sense)

Serela: so I didn't like his response to my questioning. Obviously my questioning was half-assed but I'm pretty sure I made it clear in my next post that what I wanted was for Serela to Talk A Lot, but he seemed content with just answering my question (plus saying that Raikaria seems "100% fine" is such a lazy opinion, surely he's not totally flawless) and not taking any town-motivated initiative.

BT: the recent posts are better (I was thinking of the middle Maizono btw) but I disagree with his opinion change on Serela for the above reasons. I'm just stuck between if this is actually scummy or if it just looks weird because I disagree with him.

PX and Zakeri and Dan all need to post > : ( plus Serela also needs to post tbh

##Unvote
##Vote Serela

in terms of lynch priority Serela has gone up, although I'm still missing reads on a third of the game since they've barely posted

[Polaris]

i just realized i posted a votecount and then invalidated the votecount in the same post haha i'm such a..... a.... mangosteen

SB (1): ActionDan
Dormio (1): SB
Serela (3): PX, Raikaria, Polaris
BT (4): Serela, Zakeri, Dormio
Zakeri (1): BT

[WHMZakeri]

Non, non, non, Zhere is no reason to be giving me such a shock!
I Zwear zhere is adequate reasoning for mon raison d'etra with mon vote.

Such raison being zat I had, at zee time, considered between zhe 3rd and 4th votes upon Mon Cherry Serela as being malefique.

When considering whether is was zhe 3rd or 4th vote, I choose 4th because I felt zhat one would 'ave 'ad more weight to ending the day. Which is why I clarified in my next post zhat I was not aware of the rule regarding hammers.

[Polaris]

##DeLurk: PX

I was hesitating on using this since it's a new game mechanic and idk if the rules are totally clear but if we need an entire five people to do it then I may as well just put one on him ?\_(ツ)_/? maybe two will be enough to prod PX into action

^ zak i hope you're gonna post more than just that, you strawberry shortcake

still have more to post about but something came up

[PX]

Currently busy at work but I will have 2 hours after it ends.

Although I do have a question for the mod. Since there is no such things as a hammer, What happens if there is a tie for majority votes at the end of the day?

Sorry I can't be helpful, but I will be tracking the thread and hope to be helpful soon

[Serela]

Ah yes, D1 being the worst dang thing ever, I remember it so clearly now <3 Everyone pressures you to do more, yet there is nothing to work with! It's wonderful! I'm so great, I usually lurk d1 in games to spare people from having to read my posts!

Ok, but there IS some decent posts now! Okay okay, let's reread the last two pages a few times...

Zak never having really said anything is bad, I mean I liked the original vote itself but it's been almost a day and he's basically dropped a vote and not existed, and- oh he just posted. ...oh. He sort of clarified his vote (jumping on 3/4th on the wagon) and... didn't comment on anything that's happened in the last 24 hours :S Ok, the continued lack of content there is definitely turning sour, not liking that.

Polly expecting me to have some big indepth analysis of... a town-ish read on someone like 24 hours into post-jokevote phase?? Sorry Polly, don't know what you expected, do you want an analysis of me thinking Raikaria's actions were normal and reasonable???? There is literally nothing to comment on there :V

dormio's posts are incredibly difficult to analyze due to immense flavor although hats off for such commitment, but from what I can tell he seems pretty reasonable and normal too... err, "normal"

So here's my diagnosis: Zak is allowed to vote really cryptic like, why are PX and I not?

It wasn't good, and the fact that he's never done anything else 24 hours later makes it actively bad now, but (personally, as the question wasn't directed to me) I didn't see it as bad as yours since I agreed with the actual vote target (I mean, it was my vote too...) as opposed to yours. So like, I agreed with the action but not particularly the way he did it, instead of not agreeing with the action or reason in your case?

I still don't really like BT, his defense is mostly "hey, didn't these other people make a vote just as suspicious as mine!?"

sb is fine, not a big fan of Polly because I think it's unreasonable to expect me to make big significant posts when there was almost nothing to go off yet but I don't necessarily think he's scum for it, aaandd

yeah this is probably the vote I like most atm
##Vote:Zakeri

[Serela]

i am trying to play eimm and do christmas prep and play mafia at the same time ;_; when I signed up I thought this game would be over before the Everyone Is Mafia:Mafia started on discord but instead it's currently in the big heated crazy phase

as clarification I'm voting Zak because at this point the continued lack of content makes it look like he's just trying to cruise by on an ED1 vote; his new content was just a slight clarification on the vote's reasoning, since... he didn't provide it when he made the vote, but he may as well have just not read any of the thread past page 3

did I tell you about that time I pushed a child into some coyotes so I could save the dog they were going after? I'm the best!

[WHMZakeri]

I am made more confident zhat I 'ave chosen the correct person to vote between my two choices from before with SB's following discussion.
If I had voted SB I would have unvoted him now.

continuing on, I find Raikaria to be rather trustful. C'est Magnifique, and all of zhat jazz!

As it so stands, zhere is not much I believe in outside of zhese two town reads. I have no qualms with either of Serela or BT being dropped from the game at zis point and I will be keeping an eye on the game in case a changement is needed~

(*holding dictionary up to his face* Changement? Is that real? Seriously?)

*Cough* Ahem, in any case, I will be waiting for Serela to post to see if zhey can prevent my mind from being changed.
Oh my, Reading now.

[Raikaria]

May I point out that if we have God smite PX from above; there is currently a 7/9 chance that we are losing a town player.

Delurk is anti-town. Especially when the odds that it hits scum is only 22%. The only situation where I would support such an action is if we couple it with the Holy Night; also known as ##NoLynch. Potentially lynching a member of this Holy Congregation; having the Angels smite a second and then the Sinful kill a Third puts us 2/6 on Day 2.

It is also suspicious to tar PX with that action and yet leave the equally sinful ActionDan spared. Judgement should be equal.

Currently busy at work but I will have 2 hours after it ends.

Although I do have a question for the mod. Since there is no such things as a hammer, What happens if there is a tie for majority votes at the end of the day?

Sorry I can't be helpful, but I will be tracking the thread and hope to be helpful soon

Town is NOT[/i] required to reach a majority to Lynch. At the end of the Day, all votes are tallied and whoever has the most votes will be killed! There is no "hammer" vote, i.e. the Day will not end due to having a majority of votes on someone.

The implication from my reading of the Holy Scriptures is if there is a tiw, all players on equal votes have the most votes. Therefor both are killed.

[Raikaria]

I got my numbers crossed because I said 7/9 earlier.

This is a 2/7 setup; according to the Holy Scriptures. So Delurk + Lynch + Unholy actions = 2/4 MYLO Day 2.

Delurk is a hideously anti-town motion when there is only a 22% chance it hits scum currently.

[WHMZakeri]

okay, I have changement my changement~<3

Alzhough it is a vote for me, it is a well-thought out vote zhat I do not believe scum would so easily jump on. I am much more Sur de soi zhat Serela should not be our main target.

[Raikaria]

Actually a bit of pondering, a few prayers for guidance, and a quick glance over the priority of sin in The Good Book...

##: Unvote

##Vote: Dormio

I find it inconceivable that a lawyer would be unaware of the potential Day 2 MYLO that results from a Delurk Modkill. Or they that would be unaware of the 22% chance that PX is a Sinner.

Put simply; I believe Dormio is too smart to not realize how anti-town calling for Delurk is.

The motion he started is the most sinful action I have witnessed so far in this game. Perhaps if it was some other players I could see it being a mistake. But I hold Dormio in too high regard to believe he did not realize the potential result when he began calls for Delurk.

I am particually interested to hear what the rest of the congregation's opinion on this is. As well as opinions on what was worse, Dormio starting the call, or Polaris jumping on it.

[BT]

I'm submitting some coursework and then I'll be focused on the thread again.

Serela: you make it sound like all I've been doing is defending, what the heck kind of lazy read is that?
Zakeri: ok but what do you think of me right now? I've done a lot since the last time. You haven't updated your vote, you haven't given any scumread, all you've done is compliment Rai, SB and now Serela, and say that everyone else is lynchable. Need a sphygmomanometer?

[Polaris]

raikara don't be such a drama queen. a drama... quince? (a quince is a fruit) i mean that's kinda what i was getting at when i said "it's a new game mechanic and idk if the rules are totally clear" but in lieu of any sort of mod-prod we may as well use the mechanic given to us to prod inactive players. it requires a majority anyway so it's not like a modkill will actually happen unless enough people agree to it, so i think a partial use of delurk is fine?

imo we could probably have an entire meta-discussion on whether delurk is an effective/balanced way of punishing lurkers but that would waste a lot of time while we're still in the game, so ?\_(ツ)_/?

[Raikaria]

raikara don't be such a drama queen. a drama... quince? (a quince is a fruit) i mean that's kinda what i was getting at when i said "it's a new game mechanic and idk if the rules are totally clear" but in lieu of any sort of mod-prod we may as well use the mechanic given to us to prod inactive players. it requires a majority anyway so it's not like a modkill will actually happen unless enough people agree to it, so i think a partial use of delurk is fine?

imo we could probably have an entire meta-discussion on whether delurk is an effective/balanced way of punishing lurkers but that would waste a lot of time while we're still in the game, so ?\_(ツ)_/?

I've spent a fair bit of time complaining about lurking. I had managed to identify that Delurk was anti-town and should not be used. Which is why I did not Delurk anyone and have spent most of the day voting for PX on account of his lurking and non-content. [And at this point; I would still support a PX lynch]

Now; my job may be study of the Holy Scriptures instead of the letter of the law. But if I can realize the anti-town implications of Delurk... I highly doubt that better and more experienced players than myself cannot.

Not to mention it is a new mechanic. People could... conveniently forget to give ##Amnesty. And that could send an innocent to meet the angels far too soon.

[Polaris]

serela seems to be under the misconception that providing content means writing big in-depth analyses when I have specifically stated that it is to Talk A Lot. who reads long posts anyway?

speaking of which, serious bananas's case on dormio makes me realized i've never actually read his posts in-depth. imo his idea that dormio is only parking on BT because he didn't see a good way to switch off is something that sounds kind of right to me, but I'll have to reread anyway