Topic: Mod edit title: No idea what title this should be  (Read 737 times)

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SatorKoi57

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Mod edit title: No idea what title this should be
« on: August 04, 2018, 06:33:10 pm »
Sorry to bump this, but I've been wanting to ask this ever since I first saw light of the 'Alternative Facts in Eastern Utopia' book:

The book seems to make several references to President Donald Trump (since Miko is obviously supposed to be Trump). Mainly the same sort of strawman a lot of western media tends to portray Trump: that he believes all immigrants are evil regardless of whether they came here legally or not. When even the infamous "they bring drugs and rapists" comment is far from that viewpoint when put into its proper context.

The end of the book makes no real mention of if ZUN thinks the form of right-wing populism people like Trump promote is bad, instead mainly to say the book was criticizing outrage porn and tabloid junk in general.

What exactly does this all say about ZUN's political views if my interpretation of the book is correct? If my interpretation is wrong and ZUN didn't intend for the Trump references to be a jarring insertion of his supposed (ironically reactionary and disingenuous) politics, how so? Has ZUN always been blunt about his stances?

And on another note, I did some research and ZUN called fans of KanColle annoying back at a convention a few years ago, at least those who converted to that side from Touhou, saying Touhou was better off without those people. What type of 'annoying fan' is he talking about? KanColle has often been accused of being nationalist propaganda, and if my assumptions about ZUN's politics above is correct, this MIGHT the type of fan he's talking about, but unless Touhou pulls a Marvel Comics and becomes obnoxious propaganda that panders to progressives, he can't do anything to shoo off these non-progressive fans of his series (like myself). Of course, this only assumes that ZUN is an obnoxious progressive, and I don't know that exactly yet, but if he's not I don't know what kind of 'annoying fan' he could be digging at there.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 10:01:13 pm by Helepolis »
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Re: Mod edit title: No idea what title this should be
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2018, 08:20:19 pm »
If you're trying to get a read of ZUN's beliefs through AFiEU, the main thing to look at is the Hecatia article, not the obvious Trump joke.  But he's never hidden his stances, because even as far back as PoFV he's been quite clear about his beliefs as they regard religion, society, and politics. 

As for Kantai, I don't recall ZUN ever saying that himself, but the main group of people changing subject were those people only interested in pornography of the characters.  For the most part, there wasn't political motivation, just porn artists going where the money is.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 10:01:19 pm by Helepolis »
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Re: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2018, 08:31:31 pm »
Keep in mind that the Miko/Trump thing was specifically fabricated by Aya (and it wasn't the only one) as a satire about tabloid magazines making up facts, so it basically doesn't exist in universe and i'm not sure how seriously it was meant to be taken. On the other hand, the Aya/Hecatia interview seems to consider Hecatia's POV (Opening Gensokyo to immigrants") the "right one", although you could say Aya had her own valid points.

About Kancolle, if you are talking about this thing then it isn't explicitly Kancolle he's talking about (while in your post you seems sure he was). Even if it was about Kancolle, it's more likely because of those "fans" that only make nsfw stuff. Many of the "converted fans" were those people, and ZUN openly said he dislikes that.

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Re: Mod edit title: No idea what title this should be
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2018, 09:28:17 pm »
Re: Alternative Facts:

So looking at the responses I got and gaining a bit more info on the subject, it seems like I jumped the gun, huh? (Also learned a new Japanese wordplay pun which is cool) Dang use of the term alternative facts threw me off, since I've seen the term used to criticize Trump and his administration specifically since even I can admit the unironic use of the term by officials was dumb (but not worthy of outrage IMO).

It does help that in general his social media/blog is pretty apolitical unlike say the outspoken Hollywood Trump critics, so he isn't that obnoxious about his worldview. I personally am very critical on the type of 'open/loosen the borders' immigration policy favored by American Democrats and western progressives. That being said, even if he is a progressive of the type I majorly disagree with, that isn't really such a big deal breaker as long as he doesn't get preachy and obnoxious about it to the point of feeling like activism or propaganda.

Re: KanColle:

I still kind of feel like him insulting the people who were into Touhou just for the porn was overboard (and his wording of the statement combined with the nsfw context reminds me of this just a bit too much: https://archive.fo/yBJSd#selection-1145.0-1147.14 and I feel such attitudes are ironically toxic and unwelcoming because you're excluding people whose only major 'crime' is doing something you disagree with just to be more inclusive), but yeah I do see a trend of Japanese artists (not just nsfw ones) going towards the next big thing, which right now seems to be anime-styled gacha games like Fate Grand/Order or KanColle (many Touhou artists even in the west moved to at least one of these communities as there is crossover appeal between Touhou and something like Fate or Idolmaster). That being said I do want to know his thoughts on the Touhou fans who do disagree with his worldview on a political level but it isn't a top priority at the moment.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 10:01:24 pm by Helepolis »
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Re: Mod edit title: No idea what title this should be
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2018, 10:00:47 pm »
Splitted posts from misc thread + locked.

None of this fits the Misc thread nor any of the forum sections from what I can tell.
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