Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F (Read 167439 times)

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #900 on:** June 25, 2018, 09:56:54 PM »

Yeah, if you check its HP in Keine's Library it'll show that it actually has slightly more HP than Serpent of Chaos at the same level. It's probably supposed to be as tough, but the damage scaling is all messed up at that point in the game. Personally I beat the Dark Lord in about half as many hits as Serpent of Chaos, and World Creation Press has a better damage formula than Sword of Hisou and Murakumo Slash.

Serela · « **Reply #901 on:** June 27, 2018, 06:28:29 PM »

I keep wanting to do more things even though there's nothing left to do but grind for gems @.@ I already swapped Futo for Mokou (both excellent endgame choices with similar effects, but Mokou min/maxes better I think) and now I'm considering my support core.

I wonder if Main Tank Tokiko is worthwhile? Byakuren's stats... really don't age that well. Her HP is good since the base amount was top class, but her def/mnd are honestly kind of poor, not that it's a huge deal, and the total lack of passives means that... all she really does is buff, which, well, she's REALLY good at it, but I -am- starting to wonder if I could do better. Minoriko would be massively tempting if more of my attackers were magical (I tested; she has as much hp/def as byakuren, not factoring the extra buffs, lol.), and Sanae is tempting too.

Tokiko's passives would also help with upkeeping debuffs, and keep everyone's buffs up fairly well without even using her turn if she's Strategist or God. The problem is like... her moveset is somewhat limited and the best subs for main tanks don't carry support moves, just support passives. And I still need enough buffing power to get newly swapped in members up to speed before Tokiko really does her job. I don't want to Charge -everyone-. But if I use Enhancer Tokiko I'm like, is this even worth it after cutting off a third of her passive buff upkeep? So then I go back to Sanae/Minoriko. I'm pretty sure Minoriko is just The Choice if you can cover attack buffs enough for upkeep off Placebo Effect or World Shaking Rule from minoriko to cover it, but out of my 4 best attackers, three are physical :V (Then Mari/Iku/Rumia/Eirin as hybrids, which are admittedly, all magical)

THE WORLD OF MAXIMAL EFFICIENCY IS FULL OF DIFFICULT CHOICES.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #902 on:** June 27, 2018, 08:39:20 PM »

Seems like Sanae would be your best choice as a replacement, since she basically does everything Byakuren does but more as a support character. Tokiko runs the problem of her effect being rather small and requiring characters to already be buffed, while Minoriko's a bit on the slow side for accumulating ATK buffs. Pretty interesting choice for MAG though, but if you're already running Renko for MT ATK/MAG buffing then it'd probably be better to run a stronger single-target buff.

Serela · « **Reply #903 on:** June 27, 2018, 09:59:41 PM »

With Strategist or The Special Sub, Tokiko actually maintains buffs pretty well. Like, if someone moves at 100% buffs and then Tokiko takes her turn, they should go back to 92%. When you also consider the status/debuffs passive increase and you still having your turn to use, it?s pretty good. But you only have so many slots for support members and she doesn?t apply buffs herself...

Sanae is probably the way to go unless I do things to open up another additional slot for Tokiko, which isn?t really necessary.

audishin · « **Reply #904 on:** June 28, 2018, 01:55:14 AM »

Is there some kind of patch notes for character related balance changes from vanilla to plus disk? Not specifically the awakening skills stuff.

Serela · « **Reply #905 on:** June 28, 2018, 04:59:21 AM »

I tried to go back and find it and it was too hard. @.@ There's so much thread-age. So instead I'll browse the wiki page and list everything I recall being modified... this is... -probably- everything?? Not counting any awakening skill changes.

Let's see; there's new passive skills (from the start, not awakening locked) for Keine, Youmu, Kogasa, Cirno, Meiling, Alice, Iku, and Sakuya. Most bugged skills were fixed. Iku's speed was increased and Flan's was slightly decreased. Kogasa's MP Recovery was increased to a stunning 8. Overheat now caps at 5. White Album gets stronger with levels, Hourai Elixir, and Magic Circuit get improved delay with skill levels. Tenshi's Keystone Formation is now +7% to all stats for the party when activated. Yuuka's Beauty of Nature is now WND element. Byakuren's buff copier was overhauled to copy 56% of her buffs over at max level instead of 100%, but also functions as a normal buff instead of overwriting the target's buff values. Many subclass attacks were made a little more expensive.

Oh, and Instant Attack costs 1tp to activate and Extra Attack works one third less often on subclass skills, while extra procs also now cost half of a skill's base mp cost. That might change in the next rebalance, though.

Buffed skills; damage increase unless noted otherwise
Cirno's Diamond Blizzard (PAR increase, not damage)
Aya's Wind God Fan
Orin's Cat's Walk (although delay also became worse) and Blazing Wheel (delay bonus only)
Utsuho's Giga Flare and Hell's Tokamak (giga flare slightly costlier/slower)
Yuugi's Supernatural Phenomenon and Knockout in 3 Steps
Reisen's Gas-Woven Orb (delay bonus only)
Flandre's Starbow Break and Forbidden Fruits (various adjustments, overall much better)
Warrior's Severing Flash (About as strong as Sorceror's Penetration now; reasonable after row atk enhancement)
Physical/Magic Counter power up (Yuugi, Iku, Shou)

Damage decreased:
Nitori's 3D Super Scope
Suika's Throwing Atlas
Flandre's Laveatien

Attacks now max at Lv7:
Mystia, Alice, Ran, Youmu (lv9), Sanae (lv9)

audishin · « **Reply #906 on:** June 29, 2018, 04:52:52 AM »

That is awesome, thanks. I have a friend who wants to play it but the current Plus Disk english patch still has many symbols missing in English (like HP ATK DEF in the stats screen) and he's not down with anything not being in English. Was wondering what the changes were to see how enticing it is to patch the plus disk anyway.

Serela · « **Reply #907 on:** June 29, 2018, 06:07:54 AM »

Hmm? Current Plus Disk patch should have those translated. However, the menu for the town isn't. You can still tell what everything is by the description on the right, but the image hasn't been re-edited since the Infinite Corridor was added to the menu in Plus.

I think the last image file update was back in 1.203, and can be found in this download. Don't use the exe or anything found here, just the img1.dxa file.

LoT2_1203_exe_and image_archives.zip (163560.08 kB - downloaded 88 times.)

(Alternatively, if you have the latest english patch on non-plus already, just put it's image file into your plus disk set)

The description for Instant/Extra Attack and Tenshi's Keystone Formation are in japanese since they were edited, but other than that, the town menu, and a few mp cost lines on subclass attacks, the game is more or less fully translated up until after the Plus Disk final plot boss- and then some. Since the final content patch doesn't seem to be terribly far off based on 3peso tweets, that's likely to be all for awhile.

Many of the new passive skills and buffs to attack damage are very significant for the affected characters. If he isn't using almost any of them though, upgrading isn't a huge difference until reaching the actual Plus Disk content.

audishin · « **Reply #908 on:** June 29, 2018, 08:03:03 AM »

Should this screen be translated or is this normal? This was what I was referring to. And I used the img file from the link you gave me as well.
https://imgur.com/a/12XFuCO
My buddy has never played a game in a foreign language and this is inconvenient, especially since he hasn't memorized the positions yet.

Phen · « **Reply #909 on:** June 29, 2018, 10:15:41 AM »

Those are also untranslated for me using the most recent english patch. I can't really see how it would be that inconvenient though when you have icons right there. I checked with the regular exe and it's the same there. Checked the image files and it turns out, those lines are images contained in img2.dxa while the ones that are translated are located in img1.dxa. You or your friend shouldn't have any trouble playing the game regardless.

qazmlpok · « **Reply #910 on:** June 29, 2018, 12:43:29 PM »

I forgot that that one should be translated. Were there any changes in img2? If not I could just rebuild img2 and include the old translated version.

I really need an image editor for the other stuff. But a lot of it, e.g. the infinite corridor room stuff, hasn't even been translated.

Serela · « **Reply #911 on:** June 29, 2018, 04:34:13 PM »

Apart from translation matters; I'm realizing as I continue to gem grind for a few minutes once or twice a day (party lv1500 now <.<;;) that, stat scaling... really, really does favor the low-library-cost characters. If I put the same equipment on Rumia as I have on Miko and dump all her levels in mag instead of an hp/mag split, they have the same magic. They both have a permanent 16% boost and Miko currently has the highest MAG in the party (granted, Maribel is a trivial amount behind her). About 2.8m Magic.

This is with Miko wearing a +720%, +600%, and +400% MAG equipment with a Tokugawa Statue, so Maintennance is in full effect. Nitori meanwhile still has more than 50% more ATK than anyone has in MAG at 4.5m. TBH, this is more a show that even with Maintennance, Miko's costly levels/library actually makes her Normal. (granted, with double regalia boost, ho boy!)

Then I did the same with Akyuu and she had 3.1m magic, more than either- only slightly less after their permanent 16% boosts. Along with the highest def/mnd in the party (miko would beat her with more jewels), the most speed even though Renko/Miko have a lot of spd increase on equips and Akyuu has none and her base speed is horrible, etc. In further endgame territory in the future, where you have a ton more library but mostly the same gear, she'll only move further ahead.

Considering equipment becomes rather homogenous in endgame (literally everyone wants a quartz charm, practically everyone wants a regalia over the ~10% mag increase a tupsimati gives) I'm starting to think that in endgame, Akyuu actually serves really well as a hybrid tank/nuker with

Spoiler:

for it's support+nuke hybrid benefits. The two downsides are A.Losing Placebo Effect, and B.She does have to shift a lot of levels out of HP for that. However, she still has Mega Resurrection, so she can honestly pretty well afford to do that. Hmm.

Pretty much the only thing stopping all support characters from being hybrids is that people spending ~75% of their time on support moves still probably want 80% of their levelups in HP, and at this point in the game a full set of level bonuses still roughly doubles a stat value. Your equipment loadout... isn't much different either way. Characters well-suited for hybridizing like Iku with her super strong counters and half-supportive Rumia do perfect with stuff like a half/half-ish level bonus split.

edit:I actually did the Rumia test wrong. Rumia has 3.3m magic if I give her the same stuff as Miko. Well damn. Then the 16% All By Myself... for 3.8m. That's actually starting to near Nitori's levels. XDD So, uh, yeah, cheap library is... -really- good for stats endgame. Rumia's gotten a little more EXP than Akyuu and has a little more base magic, is all.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #912 on:** June 29, 2018, 05:14:08 PM »

Rumia has excellent MAG even when normalizing character library levels, she's like top 5 or so without I'm Fine Even by Myself. Really strong character, great stats, great spells, good skills.

Serela · « **Reply #913 on:** June 30, 2018, 05:18:45 AM »

I feel pretty satisfied with my party after I threw Sanae in... other than wondering whether I should do hybrid Akyuu, but that can really be worried about later when I have a better idea how my party is playing in endgame bosses, since I already use Akyuu anyway. I swapped special subclasses around so my star attackers ALL have a powerful SPI attack for Sanae to boost and Wand of Destruction w/Sheer Force might be interesting here and there... especially if I throw Reisen in.

Which brings me to the final slot, that honestly, I've just been putting grind-beneficial characters in ever since hitting 30f, like Dowsing Nazrin or Rinnosuke or Aya. For this run slot 12 has been THE DEBUFF SLOT. It was satisfyingly Hina for the whole game (and exclusively used Biorhythm and swapped out... I didn't think to sub her Herbalist for an eternity, such a missed opporitunity), but now it's... I dunno. It's often "oh, this boss has too much resist on atk/mag/spd debuffs, guess I'm not using Hina". Mystia maybe? Reisen maybe? Reisen's Magnificent Vertigo is enticing, although not critical because I use no status-reliant members; still, it'd help Miko/Reisen blast stats down fast before she swaps back out. Mystia is so hard to tell because it depends on what I'm fighting. Many fights are just MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS but the 28~29f bosses, not so much. Yet, I could just put Long Fall Boots on Renko and enjoy over 200 eva on a main tank. Although she does love that doubled First Aid Kit... oofph. Plus, Mystia's damage should actually be really solid in a pinch, with 35%+16% stat boost and top class level/library rates and a powerful attack with huge silence rate.

I've been effectively running an 11-man team for so long, when you consider Hina literally ONLY debuffed a boss and was practically a non-participant in randoms and resistant bosses. @.@ I guess in the end, it's hard to tell until the final stuff is out, how much evading will still happen. There wouldn't be much point in using Mystia in my debuff slot if people almost never evaded, and I don't use many of the high-eva characters, just Renko+Rumia and Rumia doesn't usually stay out long. Magnificent Vertigo+Sheer Force would let Mokou debuff the offense on basically anything with Iwakasa's, though... and Rumia's Awakened status/debuffs... hrm hrm.

I'm min-maxing too hard because I keep wanting to scratch the ThLaby2 itch but the patch isn't out yet. This is part of why I didn't play Plus Disk when it was originally released :VV I knew I'd hit the end of the released content and be like "AUGH BUT I WANT THE REST AUGH AUGH AUGH". And so I spend 10 more minutes grinding gems to calm down so I can do something else.

General_Milky · « **Reply #914 on:** June 30, 2018, 08:19:49 AM »

I hear you. I held off on playing for so long because I knew it wasn't finished and it'd drive me nuts to wait just to finish a playthrough in progress. I only caved and played because I was convinced the game was abandoned and the state it was in was all there would ever be, but go figure it updates while I'm in the process of playing and they get me anyway.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #915 on:** June 30, 2018, 08:58:56 AM »

Quote from: Serela on June 30, 2018, 05:18:45 AM

Which brings me to the final slot, that honestly, I've just been putting grind-beneficial characters in ever since hitting 30f, like Dowsing Nazrin or Rinnosuke or Aya. For this run slot 12 has been THE DEBUFF SLOT. It was satisfyingly Hina for the whole game (and exclusively used Biorhythm and swapped out... I didn't think to sub her Herbalist for an eternity, such a missed opporitunity), but now it's... I dunno. It's often "oh, this boss has too much resist on atk/mag/spd debuffs, guess I'm not using Hina". Mystia maybe? Reisen maybe?

Hm, as far as a replacement for Hina, I'd say go Reisen unless you're lacking an Instant Attack character, which Mystia would cover. Reisen's a fairly versatile and self-sufficient character. Debuffs and status effects, self-buffs, decent damage. Mystia's EVA debuff is a bit unreliable, it'll probably be difficult to apply more than a -20% debuff on a boss. Incidentally, I'm Fine Even by Myself works even with multiple Baka Quartet/Team 9 members in the party, so you can use it on both Rumia and Mystia if you do choose to use her.

Hard to say what kind of value debuffs has though, the only bosses I've specifically debuffed in Plus Disk were for setting up Iku's MND debuff doubling skill (the only boss where this is really useful is The Destroyer) and Serpent of Chaos to take a bit of the bite off of the Decomposition Breath, which would be unnecessary with the knowledge that Strategist's damage reduction was nonfunctional. And with how many characters can debuff on spare turns like Awakening Rumia, having a dedicated debuffer doesn't seem that necessary. The Destroyer is pretty much the only reason I'm using Reisen, figure it'll show up again if Corridor bosses repeat infinitely.

Also yeah, I'm a bit impatient on waiting for the next updates too. I've been planning out a NG+ playthrough for when the game is done being updated to try out new strategies and playstyles I've picked up on while also playing around with the changes, like the now functional Strategist damage reduction or Tenshi's Keystone Formation change. Makes it hard to concentrate on playing something else in the meantime now that the game's had two updates in the span of a month.

elminster1372 · « **Reply #916 on:** June 30, 2018, 11:22:23 AM »

Just chiming in to say that, if an all-stats debuffer is what you're looking for, Awakened Miko is also a strong option which can fit in just about any team.

Serela · « **Reply #917 on:** June 30, 2018, 12:34:23 PM »

I've been using Miko, but I've just been spoiled by having a debuffer as insanely effective as Hina for the whole game, I guess >_> Her debuff accuracy is so far over 100% and subbed as hexer she debuffed by ~40% from a single proc. I want to punch through boss resistance and slam those stats down!! Most bosses have pretty high resistance to atk/mag/spd debuffs, y'know?

If I decided I was satisfied with the Miko I already have I'd probably just put Marisa in that slot. That display of Spark strength in endgame was just too good.

I think part of the reason people haven't been worried about debuffs on the later bosses is because the later bosses haven't... actually been terribly hard so far :V Kind of hoping that will be changing... the only things that get in the way are big gimmicks. Ever since Nitori got that scourge, bosses have mostly been a breeze. There's only like four fights after that which put up any real resistance, other than doing early corridor bosses at vastly underleveled amounts. The Destroyer, King, 28F stairs boss, and Serpent of Chaos. Even Serpent wasn't that bad once I was actually around his level, but that was mostly because Nitori blew it's face off way too fast.

Only The Destroyer gave me any -real- trouble, even then, the others just took two tries instead of one. Serpent of Chaos could at least hold rights that it gave me pause until I was actually around it's level though, but considering decomp breath one-shot everyone after space-time warp I mean what are you gonna do. Since, yeah- King/

Spoiler:

/Serpent of Chaos were only hard when they pull out their big gimmick and just annihilate you in one go. And Destroyer was only hard because it was so difficult to damage it, in a fight you absolutely have to end fast.

edit:I decided to test things out on some 29f bosses to see how much Reisen actually helped. I tried the red/green duo first... and... the difference was very minor. Maybe, uh, they weren't resistant enough to start with? >_> On the upside, Sheer Force Mokou's debuff had about 75% hit rate even without her!

Okay, Fundoshi Man was a better test. The effect is... appreciable enough. Mmm. Minor enough still that I think I'll want to wait and see how much can be dodged later. But it does make it so you can get -some- debuffs off on a boss with like 80~90 resist, especially via Reisen herself. Still, Mystia probably isn't amazingly effective unless you use many of the high eva characters (Renko/Rumia/Cirno/Alice/Koishi/Aya/Chen)

...maybe I should just put marisa there.

qazmlpok · « **Reply #918 on:** June 30, 2018, 07:15:37 PM »

Updated exe
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AyBGvv5UVpWH-uuw1dACjFXkIUfh9S2Y

It's mostly minor fixes. I fixed a few typos I found while playing. Fixed some % issues, e.g. the Wood Blessing etc bonuses said "25hp" instead of "25% hp". Fixed some space issues. Fixed that random "k" showing on a lot of descriptions (that was entirely my fault...). Filled in some of the subclass MP costs.

Serela · « **Reply #919 on:** July 02, 2018, 05:13:32 AM »

Huzzah, typofixes!

Also, note for curiosity:Satori cannot "Recollection" subclass moves, but she DOES get to copy awakening spellcards, e.g. Miare's Great Knowledge, Yuuka Spark, etc. Unfortunately this is truly relevant with Yuuka and Kasen's awakening skills. But it does have good synergy with Kasen's Dragon and Tiger, given it's a unique self-buff that doesn't care about being lv0!

Otaku · « **Reply #920 on:** July 02, 2018, 01:44:39 PM »

I know this is a bit irrelevant to the current discussion, but I'm having quite the trouble surviving the attacks of the 14-16F postgame bosses (Knowledge's Shadow, Azure Giant's Shadow and Black Goddess's Shadow). I haven't bothered with last 3 bosses yet.

My average level is 182 and my current team is:

Mokou, Guardian
Meiling, Warrior
Suika, Monk
Reisen, Hexer
Wriggle
Byakuren, Strategist
Rumia, Diva
Eirin, Healer
Sanae, Enchanter
Nitori, Trancendent
Flandre, Gambler
Yuuka, Sorcerer

I feel like I should note that I haven't installed the Plus Disc yet.

General_Milky · « **Reply #921 on:** July 02, 2018, 02:23:52 PM »

IMO, the standard postgame bosses are some of the roughest, and most unfair, in the game. Plus disk bosses have NOTHING on some of the harder ones here.

For instance, I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell against Knowledge's shadow without Guts users. These are extremely specific fights that want an extremely specific answer, if you're doing them at challenge level and without using some early Plus Disk equipment for an edge.

That said, 182 should be fine especially if you're willing to shift subclasses around or rotate in specific party members for specific fights (Tenshi for Azure Giant, Kasen for Knowledge's Shadow) to make things easier.

zeroxtime62 · « **Reply #922 on:** July 02, 2018, 02:43:16 PM »

Quote from: Otaku on July 02, 2018, 01:44:39 PM

I know this is a bit irrelevant to the current discussion, but I'm having quite the trouble surviving the attacks of the 14-16F postgame bosses (Knowledge's Shadow, Azure Giant's Shadow and Black Goddess's Shadow). I haven't bothered with last 3 bosses yet.

My average level is 182 and my current team is:

Mokou, Guardian
Meiling, Warrior
Suika, Monk
Reisen, Hexer
Wriggle
Byakuren, Strategist
Rumia, Diva
Eirin, Healer
Sanae, Enchanter
Nitori, Trancendent
Flandre, Gambler
Yuuka, Sorcerer

I feel like I should note that I haven't installed the Plus Disc yet.

How are you distributing your level up bonuses and what are your library stats looking like? Are you making use of equipment to raise your affinities against the attacks each boss use? Keep in mind that having 100 in an affinity makes you take neutral damage from that element and by increasing it to 200 for example would make you take half as much damage.

It's especially important against the Giant as Rasetsu Fist ignores your defense and hits extremely hard.

Quote from: General_Milky on July 02, 2018, 02:23:52 PM

For instance, I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell against Knowledge's shadow without Guts users.

You can shock it fairly easily if you sub any of the Sheer Force characters to Guardian and have Reisen in the frontline.

Edit - Corrected typo.

Libra · « **Reply #923 on:** July 02, 2018, 04:10:29 PM »

Another way I found of dealing with the Memorized Knowledge is using Satori, Aya and a healer, Satori with high HP and MYS affinity can take one Ether Flare thanks to Eyes that Perceive Reality while Aya switches people in and out.

pizza · « **Reply #924 on:** July 02, 2018, 10:06:39 PM »

So, I'm a little stuck. I beat the boss on B10, but I'm not sure what to do now. I'm still on ver 1.103, so if that's the reason I can't progress, then I'll just update. I'm a little reluctant to do so however, because I'm using an Earth Spirits Palace Party focused team, with Murakumo Satori as a main unit. The nerfs to extra attack would really hurt Rin's damage output, as well as the nerfs to subclass spells.

Nyxnyx · « **Reply #925 on:** July 03, 2018, 10:29:25 AM »

Anyone having trouble with the framerate? Occasional framerate drop for some spell is fine, but my game, at floor B6 which has

Spoiler:

, I'm playing at framerate around 42-43. My PC is not that bad, it can run medium graphics games like Dota 2 just fine. The dungeon effects are also off.

elminster1372 · « **Reply #926 on:** July 03, 2018, 12:15:47 PM »

Quote from: Nyxnyx on July 03, 2018, 10:29:25 AM

Anyone having trouble with the framerate? Occasional framerate drop for some spell is fine, but my game, at floor B6 which has
Spoiler:
that sliding thing
, I'm playing at framerate around 42-43. My PC is not that bad, it can run medium graphics games like Dota 2 just fine. The dungeon effects are also off.

It happens to me too. Not just with that floor, but with some other floors as well, and with some spellcards (such as Kasen's NTR attack, Nitori's Waterfall, Miko's Halo of the Guse Cannon, etc)

Nyxnyx · « **Reply #927 on:** July 03, 2018, 03:11:49 PM »

Quote from: elminster1372 on July 03, 2018, 12:15:47 PM

It happens to me too. Not just with that floor, but with some other floors as well, and with some spellcards (such as Kasen's NTR attack, Nitori's Waterfall, Miko's Halo of the Guse Cannon, etc)

Yeah, things are especially bad with Cirno and Kasen. Their main spells cause so much lag it's a bit frustrating to play.

Also, I just got that thing that gives 800%mag from !! chest in my new save, not even 10 floors into the infinite corridor. Never neglect !! chests.

My new save consists of Miko, Futo, Yakumo fam, Tenshi, Iku, Malice Cannon, Reimu, Sanae, Mamizou.

Yukari has been carrying this team so hard. That formula for shikigami: Ran hits super hard even against physical resist bosses, while Miko was useless for most of the game, even after she got all her skills. Mamizou is mediocre and Futo at least is pulling her weight with her 4 elements spells. Alice is still on the weak side after her buff in plus disk, I use her mostly for heavy aliment. This team also has trouble debuffing enemy's mind, yet has a lot of magic users (eventhough they can target def).

elminster1372 · « **Reply #928 on:** July 03, 2018, 04:48:26 PM »

Quote from: Nyxnyx on July 03, 2018, 03:11:49 PM

Mamizou is mediocre

I don't have high hopes for her, but an interesting way of trying her would be to use her along with the Eientei family. She makes for a good tank due to her huge HP score and -20% damage taken from her awakening, and Reisen's Intense Vertigo has strong synergy with her SHK-related abilities. Furthermore, Full Moon Pompolikin would hit for an extra +30% damage, which combined with the +40% from the awakening could lead to some decent results. The only issue, here, is that Mamizou herself does not bring much to Eientei (compared to, say, something like Reimu).

Miko feels a bit average for a large part of the game, though by the time you get her on 22F she should have a high enough level to pull her full weight. Her main use, to me, has been as a stat debuffer and piercing attacker (thanks to Asuka Heritage Attack).

Yakumo's Shikigami + is insane, I can confirm, and it only gets stronger as you keep levelling, like all high formula spells. In general, characters with high formulas scale much better past lvl 1000 than characters with high stats but average formulas (which is, again, why I feel Yuyuko and Youmu could still have potential... if only I could find room for them on my team lol. Maybe I could try removing Miko, but she's my only debuffer... ).

Finally, yes I think Alice just doesn't work that well due to her bad spellcards - if you want to use Marisa, you better use her alone since she doesn't rly need the speed buff that much anyway.

Arcvasti · « **Reply #929 on:** July 03, 2018, 07:09:54 PM »

Hanged Hourai Dolls is actually really good in Plus Disc, where enemies are actually weak to MYS and don't all have ridiculous MND. She's definitely too reliant on landing HVY to be consistently useful before that point though.