Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F

[DarkAtma]

Science

i just found out everyone else sans byakuren and utsuho flat out useless,like canon fooder useless

i admit being guilty of pumping flandre and remilia stats to consistently clear floor thrash with just the monk attack all command for grinding purposes

[Serela]

Worth noting there's a new translation patch.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/040z0feuctz07l0/Labyrinth2%20v2103%20text%20files%20and%20exe%2010-29-2017.rar?dl=0

-Dialogue is done up to 23F (and down to B5F). Random tidbit: the dialogue when fighting the base game's final boss has actually been modified a fair bit to cater for the plus disk story.
-Incorporated changes from posts in this topic
-Several fixes for untranslated text or overflows or not doing double %s to show percentage signs in-game
-Added space(?) needed to fix the purple key bug in the Infinity Corridor

[DarkAtma]

Can confirm i can now pick infinite keys without the game crashing

Spoiler:

and fight hollow orochi without a crash,i cant test the elemental orochis for now

also fixed the buggy explanation of some infinite corridor bonuses

Spoiler:

until what level i must grind to kill the serpent with 4 competent members? i know i am very far from it  :V

[LonelyGaruga]

tbh those levels look fairly close to me. I did it with Iku 540 (equivalent to Reimu 558, Meiling has the same leveling rate) and 600 (60 for affinity) library levels on each character. It looks more like your library levels and probably equipment need work though, judging from the HP counts. Flandre's got VOI resistance (-50% damage) so she has a special advantage there, she should only need about 300K HP to comfortably survive. The other characters will need about 450K HP with Transcendent and Strategist bonuses. Meiling can tank better with Gatekeeper Nap's 32% damage reduction (what a ridiculous skill) so she'll need less HP than that, but she naturally has the most HP of the SDM cast anyway. For equipment, Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" and the Chrysanthemum Katana are the more common high HP boosting equipment pieces, but Regalia (if you can craft it) and the Quartz Charm (random treasure in the Corridor so you don't have to buy it) are really good too, and the item from beating the B10f boss (+400% to all stats).

You have to endure the VOI attack a second time if you can't defeat the boss in a few turns after the first VOI attack, and unfortunately, the boss can use Scythe of Calamity (as well as Greatsword of Calamity) to reduce your party's max HP. If it does that once, the majority of the cast can't withstand its VOI attacks, so whether you fight with 4 or 12 characters, you're always facing a chance of being annihilated without being able to do anything about it. Running with 12 characters that can all withstand the VOI attacks can minimize the RNG elements of the fight though. Basically, 400-450K HP should do it (need Transcendent and/or Strategist for this to work), although Patchouli is weak to VOI so she's always a potential liability. I previously said she (and Kaguya) have a +20% damage VOI weakness, but a different damage test on the JP wiki says it's actually double damage, so yeah. You might want to go so far as to remove her from the party for the fight if you don't want to deal with that possibility of her being dragged out by Time-Space Warp.

[DarkAtma]

ah so the purge attack is only casted twice? that changes things abit,now i just need to make them sturdy to survive the onslaught of AOE spells without dying,the monk NTR spell seems like the most effective one on the boss

quartz charm stacks? for a flat 60% reduction? then what if you also stack that with the greater awakening % bonuses? assuming you stack at all the way to 50/2 points

you get a total of 85% damage reduction and increase,what?

i still wonder,does quartz charm work with characters who double equip stats or not?

[Serela]

Pretty sure tests in the past showed that maintenance-type bonuses didn't seem to work on the weirder bonuses like increased weakness damage, mp recovery when hitting weakness, sometimes do double damage, etc.

Which is for the best, quartz charm would be absolutely stupid if doubled. Especially after a second one :V

[DarkAtma]

putting three on one character already looks stupid,i am pretty sure there must be some cheese to get near 100% reduction,looking at you meiling

WHY THESE !!!!! chests keep giving me bad items?! (yes opened with key or amulets)

[Serela]

I'm not sure if 3 on one character would actually be ideal- at that point you're probably want to throw on something with general affinity boosts and/or stats, etc. However, I dunno how stat inflation goes in late plus disk.

[Libra]

 With library points and an affinity boost tome most of the cast gets affinities on the range of 200-300, increasing affinities beyond that point gives relatively small returns (from 200 to 400 you still get a 25% damage reduction but from 300 to 500 you only get a 13% if I'm not wrong), so, particularly for characters with balanced affinitites, boosting affinities is not that important beyond a certain point. On the other hand, depending on how much damage the enemy does, decreasing damage received by a flat percentage might be better than increasing your HP/defences. Plus, the decrease in damage works against VOI element, which you can't increase the affinity of either way.
 Offensively, I'm not sure if the flat increase in damage done is better than just boosting your ATK/MAG though.

 Still, do Quartz Charm's actually stack additively? I had assumed that even if they stacked, that would be mutiplicatively (In which case one Quartz Charm and 2 Medicine's of Life would probably be better for tanking).

[DarkAtma]

i will cheat engine a third charm and get the greater awakening to 50,that should add 85% right?

which characters or subclass can cover the last 15%? of course,thats after i find out that character greater awakening value so i can set it to 50

[KyokoDolls]

which characters or subclass can cover the last 15%? of course,thats after i find out that character greater awakening value so i can set it to 50

Strategist decreases damage taken by the front line by 10% with Ironclad Strategy, and Transcendent's Enhanced Combat can decrease damage taken by 10%. Does that help?

[DarkAtma]

Was thinking more of self sufficient refuction,in theory if a character can reach 100% damage reduction she can solo any enemy,right? as long as she can damage it

[LonelyGaruga]

ah so the purge attack is only casted twice? that changes things abit,now i just need to make them sturdy to survive the onslaught of AOE spells without dying,the monk NTR spell seems like the most effective one on the boss

quartz charm stacks? for a flat 60% reduction? then what if you also stack that with the greater awakening % bonuses? assuming you stack at all the way to 50/2 points

you get a total of 85% damage reduction and increase,what?

The Time-Space Warp + VOI combination the boss uses is only used at about 70-80% of its HP and 40-50% of its HP (but it seems to have other set behaviors that take priority over the second use), but according to the JP wiki, it can also use Space Compression. I have not personally seen it do that though (fought it a few times to make sure my strategy was foolproof, also haven't seen any gameplay recordings of it from others featuring the attack), and it seems weird for it to have Space Compression, since it already has a VOI attack with the exact same animation. For attacking the boss, from the damage calculations I've run, Warrior's Explosive Flame Sword does more damage, but that varies depending on your attacker's ATK, buffs, and skills. If you're not maxing out ATK buffs, Iron Mountain Charge will do more damage. The boss has above average DEF/MND (1m from my calculations), but not exceptionally high. The 30f Diamond Knight, for example, had 900K DEF/MND from my damage tests, and that was level 348 (just for fun, to put in perspective how silly main game's boss DEF/MND was, Guardian of the Crystals had 1.28m DEF/MND, and Desire-Eating Demon had 1.54m/2.4m DEF/MND).

Spoiler:

Murakumo's Blessing

backed Lavaetein would be your best bet for damage overall though, regardless of ATK/MAG and such. Flandre is actually fairly durable in Plus Disk compared to other characters due to her high HP, DEF/MND doesn't amount to too much with how high boss ATK/MAG is.

Quartz Charms (and all % damage increases/reductions) are multiplicative, so it stacks to 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 0.512, or a 49.8% damage reduction (and a 72.8% damage increase). Of course, stats (most importantly, HP) would also be very low, stacking Quartz Charm is not the best defensive setup. It's more important that you can have multiple characters with Quartz Charms instead, as it's a strong equipment for offense + defense, and one of the best defenses against VOI attacks.

I'm not sure if 3 on one character would actually be ideal- at that point you're probably want to throw on something with general affinity boosts and/or stats, etc. However, I dunno how stat inflation goes in late plus disk.

I've been thinking of doing a write-up on damage reduction as a sort of follow-up on the one for damage stacking that I did (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20421.msg1366630.html#msg1366630) now seems as good a time as any with it being relevant to the conversation now.

So like with the damage stacking, I'll be using Tenshi (level 526) with library levels of 600 (60 for affinity), with max Orbs/Gems and all regular Boost skills except HP/ATK (Second Boost) and Awakening unlocked, and no subclass (yet). By default, her (relevant) stats would be

HP: 157,118
DEF: 110,292
MND: 108,914

WND/SPI/PHY: 272
FIR/CLD/NTR: 192
MYS/DRK: 152

From my damage calculations, the 100f Infinite Corridor boss has 800K ATK/MAG. It's also capable of using the basic Direct Attack (100% ATK - 50% T.DEF). I'll use that as a damage calculation example.

Damage = (Attack Power - T.Defense Power) * Multiplier * (100 / T.Affinity) * Random Number (any number between 0.9 and 1.1)

Damage = (800,000 - (110,292 * 0.5) * 1 * (100 / 272)  * 1 = 273,843

This is 174% of Tenshi's HP on average. Obviously intolerable, but this is its maximum damage. Tenshi gets a +33% DEF/MND bonus at the start of a battle and -30% damage from PHY attacks, so applying that, it becomes

Damage = (800,000 - (110,292 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 187,007

This is 119% of Tenshi's HP on average. So that's already pretty close to being tolerable, but even minimum damage is still a one-shot. Now, let's look at some equipment! This is the exciting, complicated part of damage reduction.

The main equipment pieces that offer defensive bonuses are First-Aid Kit (+4.8 to HP growth, only 3 exist), Life Aura (reduces incoming damage by 8% of max HP, low chance to negate damage), and Tokugawa Statue (+12 MP/TP, +1.2 to all base stats, rare item). For defensive/support characters, you generally want one of these three, or a Ribbon (which, thankfully, exists in infinite quantities in the Corridor). For an attacking character, Divine Falchion and Tokugawa Statue (again) offer the best offensive bonuses, but sometimes you need some extra defensive bonuses anyway.

Sub equipment is a lot more diverse. I'll name the most relevant pieces that I've found to be helpful.

Quartz Charm: Damage dealt+20%, Damage taken-20%, DTH+100
Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess": HP/ATK+412%, MAG/SPD+199%, FIR+144, DRK+72, PAR/TRR/DTH+40
Chrysanthemum Katana: HP/ATK/DEF/MAG+368%, SPD+256%, PHY+50, DTH+50
Ama no Habakiri: All stats+400% (only 1 exists, prize for defeating

Spoiler:

Yamata no Orochi Hollow

)
Regalia: HP+600%, All affinity+172
Power Dragon Scale Mail: HP/ATK/MND+330%, DEF+660%, FIR/CLD/WND/NTR+100, MYS/SPI/DRK/PHY+40
Machine God Lucifer: All stats+666%, MYS/SPI/DRK/PHY+66
Scourge: ATK+800%, DEF+400%, PHY+100
Medicine of Life: HP+1280%, PSN/PAR/SIL/DTH+128
Long Sword "Ringil": MP+4, ATK+360%, MND/SPD+560%, Hit+32, CLD/MYS+100
Tupsimati: MP+6, HP/DEF/MND+300%, MAG+800%, MYS/SPI/DRK+99

I won't be running damage tests for all of these things though, of course. Since the current test attack is a Direct Attack, the most likely scenario to suffer one would be from the leftmost slot, which is occupied by tanks or support characters. As such, the most relevant setup would be for tanking hits, so focusing on that as opposed to a bulky attacker setup. For that, Tenshi (and most characters in general) would most likely be a Strategist. Strategists reduce damage to frontline characters (including themselves) by 10% and get +0.4 to their base DEF/MND. So her new base stats are

HP: 157,118
DEF: 113,048
MND: 111,670

I'll also bring up level bonuses here. With max HP investment, she's looking at 347,472 HP. With max DEF investment, she's looking at 250,010 DEF. I'll run damage calculations for both scenarios right here.

Max HP investment: Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 167,881 (48.3% of Tenshi's HP)
Max DEF investment: Damage = (800,000 - (250,010 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 146,786 (93.4% of Tenshi's HP)

The disparity is incredible. This is basically why I say DEF/MND is meaningless. Let's just pretend Tenshi has 0 DEF for a second to illustrate this further (Rasetsu Fist is basically a DEF ignoring Direct Attack anyway)

Max HP investment: Damage = 800,000 * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 185,294 (53.3% of Tenshi's HP).

Yeah. All further tests will be assuming max HP investment.

Anyway, there's still a possibility of being two-shotted by a basic attack. This is not exactly tank material, so let's look at investing in equipment next. Let's start with some sub equipment pieces. I'll be adding 1 piece of equipment at a time.

Quartz Charm (reduces damage by 20%)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 134,305 (38.6% of Tenshi's HP)

Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" (HP+412% = 397,266)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 167,881 (42.2% of Tenshi's HP)

Chrysanthemum Katana (HP+368% = 391,948, DEF+368% = 145,049, +50 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (145,049 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 322) * 1 = 137,649 (35.1% of Tenshi's HP)

Regalia (HP+600% = 419,988, +172 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 444) * 1 = 102,846 (24.4% of Tenshi's HP)

Medicine of Life (HP+1280% = 502,173)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 167,881 (33.4% of Tenshi's HP)

Machine God Lucifer (HP+666% = 427,965, DEF+666% = 170,963, +66 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 338) * 1 = 127,921 (29.8% of Tenshi's HP)

So Regalia is the strongest piece of damage reducing sub equipment in the 1st slot. This makes sense, since it nearly caps out her PHY affinity (500 affinity is the cap, any more than that doesn't further reduce damage). But this results in diminishing returns, so stacking 3x Regalia is not the best way to tank. Still, it's better to explain that through damage calculations, so repeating these 6 items with Regalia assumed in the 1st slot (so Tenshi's HP is 419,988 and her PHY affinity is 444)

Quartz Charm (reduces damage by 20%)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 444) * 1 = 82,277 (19.5% of Tenshi's HP)

Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" (HP+412% = 469,782)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 444) * 1 = 102,846 (21.8% of Tenshi's HP)

Chrysanthemum Katana (HP+368% = 464,464, DEF+368% = 145,049, +50 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (145,049 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 494) * 1 = 89,723 (19.3% of Tenshi's HP)

Regalia (HP+600% = 492,504, PHY+172)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 91,327 (18.5% of Tenshi's HP)

Medicine of Life (HP+1280% = 574,689)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 444) * 1 = 102,846 (17.8% of Tenshi's HP)

Machine God Lucifer (HP+666% = 500,481, DEF+666% = 170,963, PHY+66)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (17.2% of Tenshi's HP)

...actually I wasn't expecting that MGL would be the best 2nd piece of equipment. Well. OK then. Let's go for a 3rd piece with MGL in the 2nd slot now. HP is currently 500,481, DEF is 170,963, and PHY affinity is capped at 500.

Quartz Charm (reduces damage by 20%)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 69,180 (13.8% of Tenshi's HP)

Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" (HP+412% = 550,275)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (15.7% of Tenshi's HP)

Chrysanthemum Katana (HP+368% = 544,957, DEF+368% = 202,964, +50 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (202,964 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 83,793 (15.3% of Tenshi's HP)

Regalia (HP+600% = 572,997, PHY+172)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (15% of Tenshi's HP)

Medicine of Life (HP+1280% = 655,182)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (13.1% of Tenshi's HP)

Machine God Lucifer (HP+666% = 580,974, DEF+666% = 228,878, PHY+66)
Damage = (800,000 - (228,878 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 81,622 (14% of Tenshi's HP)

Now Medicine of Life comes out on top. MGL capping the affinity boosted it up in the 2nd slot, even though the damage reduction going from 444 to 500 is merely a 2.5% decrease (from 22.5% to 20%).

So the best sub equipment setup possible for defensive purposes in this context is 1 Regalia, 1 Machine God Lucifer, and 1 Medicine of Life. With that done, next would be main equipment.

First-Aid Kit (HP Growth+4.8 = 793,634)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (10.8% of Tenshi's HP)

Life Aura (reduces damage by 8% of max HP, which is 52,414)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = (86,475 - 52,414) = 34,061 (5.1% of Tenshi's HP)

Tokugawa Statue (HP Growth+1.2 = 689,768, DEF Growth+1.2 = 183,467)
Damage = (800,000 - (183,467 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 85,427 (12.3% of Tenshi's HP)

So the strongest main equipment for this setup is Life Aura. Given how Life Aura works, a setup with 1 Regalia and 2 Medicine of Life, for an alternate example, would have 767,893 HP, 113,048 DEF, and 444 PHY affinity, with a damage reduction effect of 61,431

Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 444) * 1 = (102,846 - 61,431) = 41,415 (5.3% of Tenshi's HP)

This is still a little bit worse than the previous setup, so stacking HP is not quite as effective as stacking affinity and HP even when you're in the mid 400s. So 1 Life Aura, 1 Regalia, 1 MGL, and 1 Medicine of Life forms the best setup for defending against the 100f Corridor boss' Direct Attack as Tenshi. For its Rasetsu Fist, it looks like

Damage = 800,000 * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = (100,800 - 52,414) = 48,386 (7.3% of Tenshi's HP)

Pretty low. But this has all been looking at the boss' PHY attacks, which Tenshi takes the least amount of damage from compared to the whole cast. Let's look at her weakness, DRK, and its Greatsword of Calamity, which is a 116% ATK - 54% T.DEF ((108% ATK - 50% T.DEF) * 1.08) DRK element attack. With the current setup, Tenshi's DRK affinity is 152 + 172 + 66 = 390.

Damage = (800,000 * 1.08) - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 1.08 * (100 / 390) = (192,142 - 52,414) = 139,728 (21.3% of Tenshi's HP)

That's a hefty amount of max HP lost right there, and Greatsword of Calamity isn't even that strong a single target attack. It is, however, the boss' strongest single-target attack, short of its VOI attacks. So this is reasonably safe. Of course, all of this equipment is also really busted, so let's go with something more reasonable, like 3 Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" instead. HP like that is 523,083, DEF is 113,048, and DRK affinity is 152 + 72 +72 + 72 = 368. Life Aura's damage reduction is 41,846.

Damage = (800,000 * 1.08) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 1.08 * (100 / 368) = (208,715 - 41,846) = 166,869 (31.9% of Tenshi's HP).

Factoring in unfortunate damage variance, this is a potential 3HKO, and each strike reduces Tenshi's maximum HP. But it's pretty easy to get this setup (each CLP costs 20 Infinite Stones from Akyuu's shop to buy, and is a somewhat uncommon drop in the Corridor itself) and you don't really need something better than this.

But this is all about its elemental attacks. The VOI ones are where it's really scary. I dunno the exact damage formula for it, and assuming Space Compression's damage formula got me results that didn't seem to match up, but it has the same animation and delay, so maybe I just got its ATK/MAG wrong. Regardless, this is the best I've got to work with presently. Space Compression is a 66% ATK - 25% T.DEF VOI attack. First up would be the 3 LS CLP setup.

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 = (441,370 - 41,846) = 399,524 (76.3% of Tenshi's HP)

Survivable, but with prior damage it's tough. I suspect that the attack may actually ignore DEF/MND (whichever it uses), which would bump it up to 82.8%, but that's still doable. Anyway, VOI resistant characters are obviously much better at tanking these attacks. Most characters with VOI resistance take half or less damage from VOI attacks. Tenshi would have better durability with First-Aid Kit instead of Life Aura here. With a First-Aid Kit, she's looking at 601,850 HP.

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 = 441,370 (73.3% of Tenshi's HP)

I didn't say it was a lot better, though. On the other hand, 1 Quartz Charm + 2 Crimson Lotus Princess with the First-Aid Kit is a good improvement. With this setup, Tenshi has 541,533 HP.

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 353,096 (65.2% of Tenshi's HP)

A substantial improvement, and the best you can get using easy to acquire equipment (since you have a guaranteed Quartz Charm from the main game). Though you'd be better off using the Quartz Charm(s) you have on attacking characters, since they have a much harder time meeting the requirements to survive the VOI attack, since they can't dump their levels in HP without losing out on damage.

Now, looking at the earlier "OP" setup with Regalia, MGL, Medicine of Life, and Life Aura, Tenshi's looking like this.

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 = (424,039 - 52,414) = 371,625 (56.7% of Tenshi's HP)

Pretty comfortably withstanding it now. Of course, this is not the best setup for surviving VOI attacks since it was directed toward surviving elemental attacks instead.

But it's unlikely anyone wants to read through all those damage calculations a second time, so I'll spare showing the work there. The best setup for surviving the boss' VOI attack with Tenshi is 1 Quartz Charm and 2 Medicine of Life with a First-Aid Kit. This gives Tenshi a tremendous 795,684 HP and 20% damage reduction.

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 353,096 (44.3% of Tenshi's HP)

Medicine of Life makes it fairly easy for anyone to survive the boss' VOI attack.

That more or less summarizes the math for tanky builds. For elemental attacks, stacking affinity and HP (especially affinity) is the best way to reduce damage, DEF/MND has a low effect. For VOI attacks, stacking damage reducing effects (which is just Quartz Charm) and HP is the best way to reduce damage. HP is more important here. The tricky part is when you also have to balance status resistances as well. This goes for attacking characters to an even greater extent, but they don't (usually) have to withstand a boss' strongest attacks.

This hasn't touched upon how to gear up bulky attackers to withstand attacks, but I've already written a ton here, I think I'll save it for another time.

[Serela]

Huh. Character balance would certainly change in late Plus if your def/mnd doesn't matter that much, rather than mostly your HP. Suddenly characters like Satori and Flandre are... actually tanky? While other characters who have high def or mnd but middling/low hp... oops.

[LonelyGaruga]

tbh the only low HP high DEF/MND character in the game was Tenshi, and Awakening gives her above average HP so that archetype somehow doesn't properly exist as a character in this game. But yeah, let's look at Satori and Flandre for a second since they were name dropped (and are good examples of this in play).

I haven't caught up on my old progress with Labyrinth of Touhou 2 so I can't properly compare with Tenshi's level, but at Reimu 540 (Tenshi would be at 509 here as opposed to 526), Satori's looking at level 494, and Flandre is level 492. I'll use the same HP Second Boost, max Orbs/Gems, library level 600, max HP level bonus investment, etc thing I did before. Just going to use the 100f Infinite Corridor boss' VOI attack as a comparison with the "normal" setup for surviving it, First-Aid Kit + 1 Quartz Charm + 2 Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess". Subclass is gonna be Strategist (though Flandre should really be calculated as a bulky attacker, this is just for the sake of a comparison).

Satori's (relevant) stats would look like

HP: 527,479
DEF: 59,605

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (59,605 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 369,431 (70% of Satori's HP)

4.8% more damage than 526 Tenshi took

Flandre's relevant stats would look like

HP: 534,154
DEF: 70,330

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (70,330 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 367,500 (68.8% of Flandre's HP)

3.6% more damage than 526 Tenshi took. This is ignoring that Flandre actually has 200 VOI resistance, so she would take 183,750 damage on average instead (34.4% of her HP).

As a quick reminder, the characters with VOI resistance are (based on the most recent damage tests done so far)

150 VOI (-33% damage): Nazrin, Eiki, Eirin
200 VOI (-50% damage): Komachi, Akyuu, Parsee, Flandre, Koishi
400 VOI (-75% damage): Maribel

[Serela]

tbh the only low HP high DEF/MND character in the game was Tenshi, and Awakening gives her above average HP so that archetype somehow doesn't properly exist as a character in this game.

There are some other examples, like Parsee, who has godlike mind and pretty decent def but garbage HP. Her MND might still be enough to put a dent in magic, but sounds like her low hp would be a very bad problem. And poor, poor Patchouli- before a first aid kit could fix her magic weakness but her Awakening hp bonus is still pretty low, and it sounds like -she's- probably on the level of a wasted team slot, even with the sdm members.

Mamizou also sounds a lot better, considering she has heavy hp and builds up 20% damage resist. The fact that her resist requires normal attacks is slightly goofy though, since it can make her cycle away from the element that hits weakness... just more reason to sub her as Sorc for powerful 86% delay normals, which tbh might be competitive for damage with her actual skills anyway.

[KyokoDolls]

I'm not sure I fully understand the math behind it, but wouldn't investing in Health that much make it difficult for healers to keep pace? They already need to invest in defensive stats to stay alive and speed to keep pace, it seems like they wouldn't be able to keep pace with the damage output bosses perform. Also, would Quartz Charm and Life Aura reduce the amount of healing a character receives from abilities? (Though you could just use Eirin to bypass both these issues thanks to her set percent heal.)

[DarkAtma]

Not sure if its coincidence,but there is always a infinity key near a !!!! or !!!!! chests when i grind for items

just me?

[LonelyGaruga]

There are some other examples, like Parsee, who has godlike mind and pretty decent def but garbage HP. Her MND might still be enough to put a dent in magic, but sounds like her low hp would be a very bad problem. And poor, poor Patchouli- before a first aid kit could fix her magic weakness but her Awakening hp bonus is still pretty low, and it sounds like -she's- probably on the level of a wasted team slot, even with the sdm members.

Mamizou also sounds a lot better, considering she has heavy hp and builds up 20% damage resist. The fact that her resist requires normal attacks is slightly goofy though, since it can make her cycle away from the element that hits weakness... just more reason to sub her as Sorc for powerful 86% delay normals, which tbh might be competitive for damage with her actual skills anyway.

Parsee doesn't have it too bad since she has a good leveling rate (at Reimu 540, Parsee's at 534), using the setup described earlier she's sitting at 414,518 HP, which is "only" 23% less than what Flandre has. Since Parsee has 200 VOI she actually has a lot more durability than she looks, since she can resist everything in the game effectively. Patchouli though, her leveling rate is one of the worst, she's looking at level 487 instead, which puts her at 364,110 HP instead, which is 32% less than what Flandre has. The VOI weakness is too much for her to really deal with too.

If it weren't for that VOI weakness, Patchouli could probably withstand the 100f Corridor boss' VOI attack as a Transcendent with this equipment setup though. As a Transcendent, she'd have 387,070 HP. With a Strategist on the field she'd be guaranteed to survive.

I think I've been a bit misleading with all these calculations though, the 100f Corridor boss' VOI attack (and VOI attacks in general) is ridiculously damaging compared to pretty much everything in the game short of nuke-level attacks like Yuuka's Master Spark, and about twice as strong as any other attack it has (even its single-target ones). Like, I'll do a quick example of what I used for it for Tenshi as a bulky attacker. So with level 526, max ATK for levels (so no HP investment), library 600 (60 for affinity), all stat boosts except HP/ATK (Second Boost here),

Spoiler:

Murakumo's Blessing

for subclass, and equipment being a First-Aid Kit, Quartz Charm, Ama no Habakiri, and Regalia, stats were

HP: 336,720
DEF: 153,238
MND: 151,436

WND/SPI/PHY: 444
FIR/CLD/NTR: 364
MYS/DRK: 324

So the 100f boss has Earthquake (60% ATK - 50% T.DEF NTR attack), Storm of Dark Flow (84% MAG - 50% T.MND DRK attack), renamed clones of Flowing Hellfire and Wild Dance of Freezing Mist (128% MAG - 64% T.MND FIR/CLD attacks), and Scythe of Calamity (70% ATK - 50% T.DEF DRK attack) for its multi-target attacks, besides its VOI attack (it also has Void Flash Claw, but this is a row attack). Looking at the damage all of these things do,

Earthquake: Damage = (800,000 * 0.6) - (153,238 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 364) = 74,788 (22.2% of Tenshi's HP)
Scythe of Calamity: Damage = (800,000 * 0.7) - (153,238 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 324) = 101,799 (30.2% of Tenshi's HP)
Storm of Dark Flow: Damage = (800,000 * 0.84) - (151,436 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 364) = 126,954 (37.7% of Tenshi's HP)
Flowing Hellfire/Wild Dance of Freezing Mist clones: Damage = 800,000 - (151,436 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 1.28 * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 364) = 177,052 (52.5% of Tenshi's HP)
Space Compression clone: Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (151,238 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 343,474 (102% of Tenshi's HP)

Even low HP characters would be able to survive all of these attacks besides the VOI attack (but not necessarily multiple attacks, at least without healing), but the VOI attack is guaranteed to be used at least once in the fight and is a potential party-wipe so it's one of the most important thresholds to survive. And even with this setup, Tenshi can't survive it (barring fortunate damage variance) without debuffing it. Really shows how important affinity is.

But yeah, that stuff aside, I looked at Mamizou real quick and it looks like she can expect to do at least half as much damage as Iku does with her normal attacks once she caps out the 40% damage buff on Wisdom of Bake-Tanuki, but her delay is 8600 instead of 7000 so she attacks about twice as fast (in theory, looking at their SPD values it does look like in practice as well though). She doesn't pierce MND as effectively and runs buffs out faster, but she actually does have the capacity to make her default attack command pretty good. On paper, it's better than Aspiration Surge (even once the buff is maxed), but in practice, maybe not. Aspiration Surge has an easier time working with Boost effects and buffs.

Needless to say, this actually looks like a good idea for Mamizou, although strictly for MYS weak targets of course.

I'm not sure I fully understand the math behind it, but wouldn't investing in Health that much make it difficult for healers to keep pace? They already need to invest in defensive stats to stay alive and speed to keep pace, it seems like they wouldn't be able to keep pace with the damage output bosses perform. Also, would Quartz Charm and Life Aura reduce the amount of healing a character receives from abilities? (Though you could just use Eirin to bypass both these issues thanks to her set percent heal.)

idk, I didn't run into any problems healing characters while playing like this, but at the same time, I annihilated most bosses before I needed any healing in the first place, and I utilized Akyuu's invincibility a lot as well (her Awakening spell card is apparently bugged and provides invincibility to the leftmost slot). SPD isn't really an issue, and most characters heal for overkill anyway. Like, I tried max HP Healer Rumia for the 100f Corridor boss and she was healing 120K (reduced by Strategist and Quartz Charm) to Tenshi after she took 140K from its Overflowing Hellfire clone (with a -12% MAG debuff), no MAG buff on Rumia. Think she heals about 2.5x as much as that with max MAG investment or something like that, and Rumia is one of the weaker healers in the game with a 33% MAG heal. Single-target heals are usually full heals as well, I've rarely seen Sanae fail to heal herself or anyone else to full with max HP in levels.

I'm not 100% sure about Life Aura (it probably does though), but Quartz Charm does indeed reduce heals by 20% too, I had forgotten about that. It's not quite as good as I make it out to be with the damage calculations because of that. Thanks for pointing that out.

Not sure if its coincidence,but there is always a infinity key near a !!!! or !!!!! chests when i grind for items

just me?

Probably coincidence (I'd call it good luck), I think about 20-30% of those chests I found had a key nearby. Infinite Corridor has some goofy mechanics though, I wouldn't be surprised if some game loads did have an unusually high/guaranteed chance of spawning keys near high level chests.

[Xarizzar]

Possibly spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-sfsK1ZAWE

I fought this

Spoiler:

Kedama boss

at this level and I think I've made Komachi pretty OP. Though as much as I love tanking, I don't like all my characters KO'd like that

[DarkAtma]

Possibly spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-sfsK1ZAWE

I fought this

Spoiler:

Kedama boss

at this level and I think I've made Komachi pretty OP. Though as much as I love tanking, I don't like all my characters KO'd like that

i hope thats not how the real battle will pan out once the rest of the content is released,i mean how are you supposed to beat it without that strat? pure damage race?

except big C. i had to resort to

Spoiler:

hexer poison sakuya

to beat it

[KyokoDolls]

I was wondering, is the New Game + File for Labyrinth of Touhou 2 listed here supposed to not include

Spoiler:

Renko and Maribel

?

[DarkAtma]

I was wondering, is the New Game + File for Labyrinth of Touhou 2 listed here supposed to not include

Spoiler:

Renko and Maribel

?

i believe including them breaks some post game content

[Xarizzar]

i hope thats not how the real battle will pan out once the rest of the content is released,i mean how are you supposed to beat it without that strat? pure damage race?

Pure damage race seems legit, to be honest. Though I wouldn't worry about it much. As you see from the stats at the end of the video, my average level was 579, while the recommended level for that one I think was

Spoiler:

760

?

[Serela]

Needless to say, this actually looks like a good idea for Mamizou, although strictly for MYS weak targets of course.

Well, the point is only to max her Awakening passive and get the correct element, or close enough. After that she can graduate to casting skills. Although, yeah, on a mys-weak target she might just want to slam out normals!

[Myosotis]

Well, the plusdisc mainstory was a cakewalk, do yourself a favor and dont use exp-increasing skills and/or items or just run from encounters a lot.
No idea what the post-postgame content is like though aside that the corridor also seems way too easy but I believe enemies there scale even after reaching the 100th floor so that will fix itself unless the rewards increase faster than the enemy difficulty.

That aside, is the wiki wrong about where to find

Spoiler:

Tokiko and Kokoro

? Haven't seen them at the mentioned floors but Im pretty sure I have explored everything that is available to me at those floors.

Also I'd like to thank the translators for translations, gotta wait for full translations for a run with heavily reduced rewards and actually knowing what was even going on  :V

[LonelyGaruga]

Possibly spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-sfsK1ZAWE

I fought this

Spoiler:

Kedama boss

at this level and I think I've made Komachi pretty OP. Though as much as I love tanking, I don't like all my characters KO'd like that

Oh that's interesting, it looks like the testing on the JP wiki wasn't accurate regarding Komachi's VOI resistance. If working under the assumption that she has 200 VOI resistance, that boss should have about 950K ATK.

Damage = (950,000 * 0.66) - (61,001 * 1.2 * 0.25) * 0.5 = 304,349 (Damage variance = 273,914-334,783)

The lowest amount shown that Komachi took was 274,387, and the highest was 334,390. This falls within the damage range calculated. But if this were true, then your other characters would have been taking damage in the range of 600K, and they obviously were not (at least not the base damage). But if Komachi had 150 VOI resistance instead, the boss' ATK stat would be in the range of 650K instead.

Damage = (650,000 * 0.66) - (61,001 * 1.2 * 0.25) * 0.75 = 308,024 (Damage variance = 277,221-338,026)

On the other hand...this doesn't quite fall into the damage variance range, as the minimum damage calculated is too high. This might just be the results of decimals being dropped, which I'm failing to account for. But, it also gets results that are a little bit too low for other characters as well, as they'd be taking about 380-400K on average. So this can't be right either. An old damage test claimed Komachi had -40% VOI resistance, which is equivalent to about 166 VOI resistance. If that's assumed, then the boss' ATK stat would be in the range of 800K...which would be the same as the result I got for the 100f Corridor boss.

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (61,001 * 1.2 * 0.25) * 0.6 = 305,819 (Damage variance = 275,237-336,400)

Minimum damage is still slightly too high (very likely discrepancies with decimals), but the average damage result on non-VOI resistant targets now hits the 430K range, which looks accurate. Though it looks like Flandre might not have 200 VOI resistance though...this stuff is hard to figure out.

But yeah, anyway, your other party members could have totally tanked it easy with HP stacking. Yukari didn't even have 400K and she was surviving just fine. tbh

Spoiler:

Kedama Goddess

is actually kinda weak for its level since you have to deal with a similar trial against the 100f Corridor boss, which is 199 levels lower than it. Pretty easy to heal it off provided you can survive it in the first place.

i hope thats not how the real battle will pan out once the rest of the content is released,i mean how are you supposed to beat it without that strat? pure damage race?

You can tank it normally, don't really need to go Komachi solo. Though I can't really provide a good demonstration of that with actual gameplay. Although the 100f Corridor boss does comparable damage, in the run of it I have uploaded, half my party had 1-hit invincibility so you can't really get a good idea of the damage it would have done. And it's a one-time thing anyway since I beat it before the second VOI attack. Seems like a good enough reason to try to grind back to where I was at before and make a run of

Spoiler:

Kedama Goddess

though. It honestly does feel pretty doable. Might take a few days to get back to where I was at, will see what I can do after I get there.

Well, the point is only to max her Awakening passive and get the correct element, or close enough. After that she can graduate to casting skills. Although, yeah, on a mys-weak target she might just want to slam out normals!

Well, I guess, I just don't like any strategy that's relying on RNG working in your favor. A decent number of bosses (mostly the Abyss Touhou ones) could be beaten by other characters before Mamizou even acquired the right element, and some other bosses would be half-dead. But then again, most bosses have multiple weaknesses anyway, so maybe it's not that bad. Mamizou has good spells for CLD/DRK/SPI (SPI via

Spoiler:

Murakumo's Blessing

subclass) without elemental infusions as well. I guess with MYS, you can switch to Scrolls of Frolicking Animals once you get the MYS infusion, since you'd otherwise be using normal attacks anyway.

Though, to put Mamizou's maximum damage in perspective, Satori is capable of doing about the same amount of damage Mamizou can by copying her spell cards, and all she has to do is strike weakness with them. She's actually a little bit stronger with Earth Spirits Palace support in the backrow. Granted, in practice Mamizou would do more damage specifically because Satori's on the field, but that's just to give an idea of Mamizou's personal level of power.

I'd name the whole "lose 1 counter for switching out" thing as an issue too, but Mamizou's best spell card for pure offensive purposes is usually Scrolls of Frolicking Animals so it's not that bad.

Mamizou does have a lot of potential if the RNG elements in her elemental rotation works out in your favor though, just...there's a lot of other good characters that are consistently as good, or better, at dealing damage.

That aside, is the wiki wrong about where to find

Spoiler:

Tokiko and Kokoro

? Haven't seen them at the mentioned floors but Im pretty sure I have explored everything that is available to me at those floors.

It is correct, you probably missed something. Did you collect all of the items you need for their events?

[Xarizzar]

*VOI(D?) resistance things*

So, basically, those attacks are void elemental? (It's hard to tell cause there's no icon?) And the JP Wiki is the only way to check the void resistance?

Very interesting. You found all those algorithms from that Wiki?

[LonelyGaruga]

No icon = VOI element. Technically, a more accurate (or rather, literal) translation would be "Non-elemental", but Void is legit and there is a bit of a space/dimension theme with non-elemental attacks in this game, or at least for the ones in the main game. Presently, there's only four damaging VOI attacks, Space Compression, Liberated Abilities, Super-Ego, and Disintegrating Breath. Of those, Space Compression (空間圧縮) is the most common one and the only one that was in the main game, where only The Second Sun and Ama no Murakumo's Right Arm used it (Murakumo's Right Arm had surprisingly low ATK though, you could actually take 0s from this IIRC). For Plus Disk bosses, only the

Spoiler:

Serpent of Chaos (according to the JP wiki anyway)

and

Spoiler:

Kedama Goddess

can use it, with

Spoiler:

Kedama Goddess

using Time-Space Warp prior to it. Disintegrating Breath (分解のブレス) is only used by the

Spoiler:

Serpent of Chaos

, and is the attack it follows up Time-Space Warp with. Shadow Maribel uses Liberated Abilities, but only if you

Spoiler:

defeat Shadow Renko first

, while Shadow Koishi uses Super-Ego freely. Shadow Satori should be able to use them both though, as she uses all player spell cards. The mob Kedama Hermit and its Infinite Corridor counterpart can also use Space Compression. I haven't seen any other mobs use it, but that doesn't mean there aren't any capable of using it.

The JP wiki has some reports on VOI resistances, but they're only from damage tests and aren't 100% accurate or confirmed or anything. On this page, https://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/177.html, which explains formulas for damage calculation, the VOI resistance test listing goes

+20-30%: Kaguya
-33%: Nazrin, Eirin, Eiki
-40%: Komachi
-50% Parsee, Flandre, Koishi, Akyuu
-75% Maribel

Patchouli being weak to VOI is not specified here. The only other page that discusses VOI resistance is

Spoiler:

Kedama Goddess'

boss strategy page here, https://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/190.html#id_0d07c8d0. Here, it lists the damage taken by a level 600 character.

1m: Kaguya, Patchouli
500K: Everyone else
370K: Nazrin, Eiki, Eirin
250K: Komachi, Akyuu, Parsee, Flandre, Koishi
130K: Maribel

Which is somewhat accurate, although really loose. This is how much damage you would take if you had 0 DEF and nothing reducing its effects, if I'm right about the boss' ATK.

Damage = 800,000 * 0.66 = 528,000.

Kinda close to 500K...actually, this is more accurate than I thought it would be. Here's what Flandre should be taking based on the stats in your video if she's assumed to have -50% VOI resistance, ignoring the Gambler damage penalty.

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (86,364 * 1.12 * 0.25) * 0.5 = 251,909 (Damage variance = 226,718-277,099)

She took 505,446 damage. Without Gambler, she would have taken 252,723 damage, which actually falls very close to the average damage that can be expected. So she should indeed have 200 VOI resistance. But Komachi definitely does not.

Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (61,001 * 1.2 * 0.25) * 0.5 = 254,849 (Damage variance = 229,364-280,333)

Substantially less than what she was actually taking. So it looks like the original damage calculations were more accurate about everyone's resistances, so maybe Kaguya (and Patchouli? she probably does have a VOI weakness, the original damage tests may not have found it) does only take +20% instead of +100% VOI damage. +100% does seem incredibly excessive.

For all the math calculations I do, the damage formula is known and covered in the first JP wiki page I linked (I leave out the part about row attacks because I haven't had to calculate any). Enemy stats, however, are a lot more obscure. The EN wiki has the main game's enemy stats listed in its bestiary page (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Bestiary), but Plus Disk's enemy stats are not confirmed outside of HP. Enemy spell card formulas are a similar story, the ones that were in the main game are known and compiled on the front page of each of these threads under "Spellcard Info". The ones in Plus Disk are not known, but thankfully there were not very many that were added to the game that aren't unique to a boss. Every boss uses attacks that were in the main game, so by checking those, it's possible to calculate where a boss' ATK/MAG is roughly at.

For Touhou bosses, the boss versions of the spell cards are listed in the Character spell cards, while the rest of the enemy spell cards are in the Enemies page. Some spells in the Enemies page actually went unused in the main game, specifically "Rainbow Wing" (as far as I know, nothing uses this yet, it's a scary looking 177% MAG multi-target MYS attack that ignores MND, this would be one of the strongest enemy spells in the game if it was used) and "Angelic Light" (this is used by Plus Disk's B3f bonus boss,

Spoiler:

Enforcer of Power

. Aya's Wind God's Fan also has data for an enemy version in the main game even though she wasn't a boss there. Her other spells don't have enemy versions either. Kinda weird, it's doubtful she was ever intended to be a boss for the main game.

[KyokoDolls]

I did some digging using Cheat Engine, and I believe that I found the location of the void resist value. If this address is correct (I'm fairly confident in it, but I don't do this often) then these should be the values.
Shikieiki = 150
Flandre = 200
Nazrin = 150
Kaguya = 80
Parsee = 200
Komachi = 160
Maribel = 400
Eirin = 140
Everyone else just has 100 as their value. Please note that this was taken from the last patch for the game before plus disc, so plus disc may have changed the values. I don't have the plus disc patch, so I cant check the values there, or the values of the plus disc characters.