Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F  (Read 165192 times)

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #750 on: June 11, 2018, 06:10:32 PM »
Alright, so I can stop around 1100~1200 and be sure that the only risk is being an idiot and letting my 7-star counter time out. At lv900 my grind trip got 50 levels and didn't take long (I never swapped anyone) so that shouldn't be hard. Everything on 30f is weak to Extending Arm, Nitori's attack is insane, and she gets synergy boost off Aya... while appraiser Shou in Angel Slime Hat gets stupid high multipliers on the metallic kedamas. The fourth slot is just Maribel to give her more EXP XD

I don't like using Aya because she's so ridiculous, but it makes this grind so efficient it'd be wasteful -not- to put her in.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #751 on: June 11, 2018, 06:55:46 PM »
Well, then. This was surprisingly easy. I just beat
Spoiler:
***WINNER*** @ lvl 1000 with an avg lvl of 1094
. He was... Really not that hard. The 29F bosses are harder by a fairly wide margin. I didn't record a video of it, but
Spoiler:
I guess I can record it when he's lvl 1200
.

Yeah, it makes me really concerned about endgame since both
Spoiler:
***WINNER***
and the Corridor bosses are all fairly easy, and they're the only bosses with levels that are set to scale up with player progression. Unless they receive AI and stat adjustments toward/at the end of the level curve, I don't see a challenging endgame.
Spoiler:
***WINNER***
was especially disappointing since
Spoiler:
his incarnation in the first game had all of his most dangerous moves available at will, while the current incarnation is locked into whatever spell book he has equipped, so his moveset is always limited. He also goes down way too quickly with weakness elements, think they're like 60-66 affinity. By default, his HP is fairly low, but targeting weakness makes him go down even faster. Tenshi can take off nearly 25% of his HP in one hit by targeting weakness.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #752 on: June 11, 2018, 07:21:06 PM »
Well, it's worth considering that based on previous challenge levels compared to boss level,
Spoiler:
Winner
is probably supposed to be fought around lv950. While my Nitori did large hunks of his HP bar with super scope (Because her atk is literally double everyone else's and overheat+super scope is dumb), my other characters did pretty reasonable amounts of damage for a longer fight. If I hadn't had my front line overhealed for most of the fight, his attacks would have been very scary. Eirin feels kind of like cheating  :V He nerfed healer, but honestly, it probably should have been Hourai Elixir-exclusive to begin with....

I think part of the problem is you can kill bosses faster than he anticipated in general if you use certain star attackers like Nitori or Iku-boosted Tenshi. Their attack values are obscene, and it's only compounded by favoritism with gems, library, and equipment. It's all the %age boosts... Tenshi can -double- her Attack value off her passives, and with base stat increases her attack is as high as anyone else.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 07:25:37 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #753 on: June 11, 2018, 07:27:01 PM »
Yeah, it makes me really concerned about endgame since both
Spoiler:
***WINNER***
and the Corridor bosses are all fairly easy, and they're the only bosses with levels that are set to scale up with player progression. Unless they receive AI and stat adjustments toward/at the end of the level curve, I don't see a challenging endgame.
Spoiler:
***WINNER***
was especially disappointing since
Spoiler:
his incarnation in the first game had all of his most dangerous moves available at will, while the current incarnation is locked into whatever spell book he has equipped, so his moveset is always limited. He also goes down way too quickly with weakness elements, think they're like 60-66 affinity. By default, his HP is fairly low, but targeting weakness makes him go down even faster. Tenshi can take off nearly 25% of his HP in one hit by targeting weakness.

Spoiler:
I feel like making ***WINNER***'s moveset limited is nice since the fight will be less RNG, in the sense that you know what's coming depending on which spellbook he's using at the time. That said, currently his only dangerous moves are the Big Spells he charges up for when he's low on HP (in particular, he has what's basically an AoE version of Scourge), but as you said, depending on which forms he chooses, you can kill him before he even gets a chance to do so, this overall makes the fight too easy.

IMO, increasing his HP (as well as reducing his weaknesses on each form) and allowing him to use his Big Spells at any point in the fight would make it more challenging; the movesets themselves could also use a bit of a power boost (more dangerous AoE or status moves you need to actively watch out for, for example), he also sometimes wastes turns curing himself of status effects/debuffs when he isn't even inflicted with them. Maybe giving him a silght permanent all-stat increase as his HP reaches certain thresholds would also make it more challenging as the fight goes on.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #754 on: June 11, 2018, 08:11:36 PM »
Now that I think about it (with Aya's brokenness), you can safely trawl through Corridor forever once you reach the looping floors and  have no bosses to worry about. Running only costs 3tp even without Chen after you get all the dark fragments, and Aya will instantly move first, every time. Two out of Rumia/Renko/Diva (or even all three) allows you to easily beat most floors with 0~2 battles, which you can absolutely fix with TP recovery prep floors. Hah.

You just have to not spend too much counter exploring the floor, since eventually you won't be able to win the fights. (Although Aya will let you do that for an awfully long time, too...) You can probably stockpile keys to generally be ready for all the 4~5 ! items, though, and you can do a few exchange events per floor safely.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 08:20:59 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #755 on: June 11, 2018, 11:55:53 PM »
Well, it's worth considering that based on previous challenge levels compared to boss level,
Spoiler:
Winner
is probably supposed to be fought around lv950.

Well, for reference, I recorded a fight with the
Spoiler:
level 1200 ***WINNER***
at Iku level 1080 (average party level is something like 1077, I ditched some party members due to the Time-Space Warp-like move), video is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJYYHkIitZ0&t=58s. Even before weakness Tenshi is ripping off 10% of the total HP per hit. I don't quite remember, but I think it has 440m HP? Admittedly, I haven't seen the
Spoiler:
MT Scourge
attack yet. The most dangerous one I've seen was
Spoiler:
Wrath of God
, which is just a really strong SPI MT attack. I saw the
Spoiler:
Time-Space Warp + HVY
attack, but the status can be resisted so it's nbd at all, and it has a higher than average delay too, something like 4000.

Granted, it probably does have to do with Tenshi just hitting that hard compared to what's expected, but I think a lot of characters can hit or exceed this level of damage output, like Nitori and Tokiko.  It'd probably be easier to nerf this kind of firepower, but eh...

Xarizzar

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #756 on: June 12, 2018, 12:49:10 AM »
So, does anybody know how long
Spoiler:
***WINNER***'s invuln lasts when he casts Globe of Invulnerability? To my knowledge, invuln in this game lasts 1 hit, but this lasted a lot longer. It lasted 8 hits, which is kind of arbitrary, unless I miscounted. I also counted his turns. It counted for 5 of his turns, which seems less random, but I'm still not sure.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #757 on: June 12, 2018, 01:29:20 AM »
Granted, it probably does have to do with Tenshi just hitting that hard compared to what's expected, but I think a lot of characters can hit or exceed this level of damage output, like Nitori and Tokiko.  It'd probably be easier to nerf this kind of firepower, but eh...
It's an inevitable problem when he provides too many damage boosters... Tenshi is fine normally, and a bit on the intense side with Iku out. That's reasonable for a synergy. But then you use Murakumo's Blessing and start dealing 50% more ontop of that, and Akyuu amplifies it further, and then you hit a weakness ontop of that, before you know it your strongest attackers are doing 3+ times as much damage as is expected... which might be okay for a burst, but when you can sustain it for the entire fight, it's... bad. Ontop of that,
Spoiler:
Winner
is designed for a long-haul battle where he has enough time to pull out his scariest tricks, and his limelight gets cut so short he hardly does any of them.

It's basically the same thing that happened with Gambler in the original game, except made worse because original character balance gets screwed up when you can increase any base stat by 70... and because Murakumo doesn't make you fragile. It's supposed to annihilate your MP to use it, but in postgame you're given a bajillion MP so it doesn't matter. Whoops.

There's a lot of characters who can become pretty silly, so the best thing would probably be to do the same thing he did in the normal game, and pretty much double every boss's HP because he greatly underestimated things. (Yeah, if you weren't around that far back, the original release was the same way; all the bosses falling over far too easily.)

Although, I think King of Chaos is pretty fine as-is... @.@;;
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 01:40:16 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #758 on: June 12, 2018, 02:28:56 AM »
tbh I was doing upwards of 25% of King of Chaos' HP with Tenshi too. Although, I think something might be going wrong there, because when I tried reverse calculating the damage done from my recorded run to figure out what kind of DEF King of Chaos had, somehow Tenshi was doing more damage than possible even with 0 DEF. I figured out with further testing that King of Chaos has about 4m DEF, but that just raises more questions about why Tenshi was hitting such high damage numbers. Under the most extreme circumstances (SPI weakness being 50, maximum damage variation of 1.1x), Tenshi's still hitting about 33% harder than she should by my math. World Creation Press was also doing similarly higher amounts of damage than it should've been doing. At first, I thought that Sanae's Youkai Buster was bugged and applied to Oni type enemies (Super Youkai Buster is 1.2 * 1.16 for 39% more damage, which would explain the discrepancy), but from testing it further, this turned out to not be the case. I've no idea what it could be that caused this. It's possible that if I tried testing it for other bosses, I would discover the numbers are higher than they ought to be as well. What I can confirm is that Tenshi's damage was normal on the King of Chaos when testing Direct Attack with no buffs outside of Girl of Bhava-agra, Strategist, and some small % DEF/MND for Courageous Sword, so those things aren't broken.

But anyway, that's reassuring that the original postgame was similarly imbalanced, since it means that the Plus Disk bosses also have a strong chance of being rebalanced. I won't worry about it then.

EDIT: Ah wait a second, I was testing Direct Attack with Murakumo's Blessing on, but that was before confirming that Murakumo's Blessing buffed Iku's Attack command, and by extension, should buff all Attack commands. I didn't account for that, which means King of Chaos' DEF should be even higher than 4m? That makes no sense though, that can't be right. I don't get it, the damage calculations I did were accurate prior to the 1.104 update.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 02:32:38 AM by LonelyGaruga »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #759 on: June 12, 2018, 02:45:34 AM »
So, does anybody know how long
Spoiler:
***WINNER***'s invuln lasts when he casts Globe of Invulnerability? To my knowledge, invuln in this game lasts 1 hit, but this lasted a lot longer. It lasted 8 hits, which is kind of arbitrary, unless I miscounted. I also counted his turns. It counted for 5 of his turns, which seems less random, but I'm still not sure.
As far as I can tell, enemy invulnerability seems to work differently, it seems to only disappear naturally (not sure what the chance for it to disappear is). In
Spoiler:
Adol
's fight, it lasted a different amount of turns during 2 different runs.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #760 on: June 12, 2018, 03:45:38 AM »
Spoiler:
I finally beat up ***WINNER***. I didn't end up grinding to maxed orbs on everyone like I thought I would, and I'm a little disappointed with how the attempt went since it was basically a Meiling/Patchy show damage wise, but oh well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7prnyoMeYBc&feature=youtu.be Dragon God's Power Kogasa is pretty fun, as it turns out.

As a side note, has Meiling's Healer and Reisen's Grand Patriot Elixir always had SFX? I swear I've never heard them before the new update.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #761 on: June 12, 2018, 03:50:52 AM »
The new Severing Flash seems to deal about 155% ATK, so about on par with Penetration. Not bad after Row Attack Enhance. That'll make some characters like Remilia easier to use in the base game, but anyone who'd been subbing Warrior has a new usable attack. Aya's Wind God Fan is now about 170% ATK, which makes using her offensively a more realistic option. 2mp blazingly fast Row Atk Enhanced fans is decent. Still crazier as support, but earlygame you just want some attacks. Meanwhile, Super Scope's gone from 625% to about 540%(?). I know it's expensive, but the cost really doesn't scale into postgame in a remotely balanced fashion... and finally, Suika's Throwing Atlas has gone to about 325% ATK. I think it was 360% before?

I'd put these on the wiki, but it seems to be broken at the moment. Well, later.

Also, King's down. Nice. I handled it a lot better knowing when certain things were going to happen and it wasn't so bad, actually. But having heard about stuff like Gaea's Rage and fullheals... *shudder* I'm just glad I finished it before those happened, since I know those would have been... well, a problem. >_> I'd been keeping people who resisted death and Akyuu's invincibility somewhere in the front row towards the end.

At this point I really only have the Infinite Corridor, and b11f gem grinding left until the next update. (Not that I'm planning on grinding a billion gems, but -some-.) Well, I've got 100 floors of corridor from 151 to 250 to try and chain together tomorrow, so that'll be a trip. I realllllly want to forge some Winner's Rags to replace a Scourge on Nitori and get her durability higher, so she's a little more like Miko's durability level. Maybe make a Tokugawa Statue after, I'd love to get two for Miko and Nitori. After the 29f boss gear, Miko's finally started to actually look like a maintenance user. Her slow levels and expensive library really actually make it look like a balanced skill... color me surprised.

Cut by a video showcasing endgame shenanigans Kogasa? I've gotta watch this, I was originally planning on running it but ended up not. I'm hype to see it in action. edit:The constant swapping looks pretty silly without using any Instant Attackers, but it's amusing to watch. The amount of time you spend "setting up" versus how often you attack seemed kinda strange, but I figure you were just playing it really safe for your attackers.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 04:07:13 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #762 on: June 12, 2018, 04:16:39 AM »
The amount of time you spend "setting up" versus how often you attack seemed kinda strange, but I figure you were just playing it really safe for your attackers.

It's my playstyle as I picked it up from playing LoT1. I'm not really sure how it stuck, and it's probably why I like Ran so much, but I enjoy playing really passively and setting everything up and then getting things going. It also lets me set up a safety bubble via Eirin on all of my attackers I know can't take certain hits. I know it's not optimal, but, I think I'm too lazy to go completely optimal on everything.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #763 on: June 12, 2018, 04:23:53 AM »
As a side note, has Meiling's Healer and Reisen's Grand Patriot Elixir always had SFX? I swear I've never heard them before the new update.

Dunno about Meiling, but Reisen's Elixir didn't have any SFX in 1.103, so that must be new.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #764 on: June 12, 2018, 05:33:34 AM »
Whew. Fully updated the wiki apart from the new instant attack and extra attack effectives, and formulas on Flandre's skills. (laziness) And the statuses for Kokoro's Four Humors Possession, I guess, but when the heck are you gonna use those anyway?

The subclass page took a bit of effort, but I did that too! ...and there's still no section on
Spoiler:
Dragon God or Winner
subclasses. Got delay info for Hourai Elixir, Magic Circuit, and the nerfed
Spoiler:
Murakumo Blessing
skills, in addition to all the damage formulas I mentioned in my last post. At this point I'm pretty sure everything is up to date and all formulas/delays included, apart from what's mentioned in this post.

edit:Okay, okay. Four Humours... it's Wind element for all cases. Debuffs listed are seperated from her passive skill that grants emotion debuffs on all attacks, but stack when appropriate.
Joy:MND+DEF Down (~27%)
Anger:Shock
Pathos:Silence (Extremely tiny duration- nonexistent)
Cheer:SPD Down (~17%)

Combined with her debuff-causing passive, the debuffing portion isn't so bad, but it sure is underwhelming unless the success rate is something crazy. The spell's pretty expensive and the effects are totally irrelevant in randoms because you have to concentrate (multiple times). Also lol at the Silence, did he forget some zeroes? I was testing on 16f enemies and it wore off in ONE TICK, as far as I can tell. It'd be cool if her awakening let her choose a starting mask, with a skill set a la Byakuren's "Pick your passive effect". She'd be vastly more useful in random battles, and convenient for bosses too. You could potentially leave her emotion swap skill off and concentrate without emotions changing, turning her fast-concentrate into just a quick turn move.

edit:I got lv1 kokoro and tried to test SIL on 3f enemies with lv1200 mari to check, and it still wore off instantly. I'm putting it on the wiki as SIL:1. :I Kokoro really feels like "I want to do this neat gimmicky thing but I don't know what I'm doing" the character.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 06:28:12 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Xarizzar

  • RPG fan
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #765 on: June 12, 2018, 06:34:37 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAErriCldvI (spoilers)

And there you have it. Beat
Spoiler:
***WINNER***
. And I forgot to include my stats in the first recording, so I just made a separate one.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #766 on: June 12, 2018, 07:14:59 AM »

edit:Okay, okay. Four Humours... it's Wind element for all cases. Debuffs listed are seperated from her passive skill that grants emotion debuffs on all attacks, but stack when appropriate.
Joy:MND+DEF Down (~27%)
Anger:Shock
Pathos:Silence (Extremely tiny duration- nonexistent)
Cheer:SPD Down (~17%)

Combined with her debuff-causing passive, the debuffing portion isn't so bad, but it sure is underwhelming unless the success rate is something crazy. The spell's pretty expensive and the effects are totally irrelevant in randoms because you have to concentrate (multiple times). Also lol at the Silence, did he forget some zeroes? I was testing on 16f enemies and it wore off in ONE TICK, as far as I can tell. It'd be cool if her awakening let her choose a starting mask, with a skill set a la Byakuren's "Pick your passive effect". She'd be vastly more useful in random battles, and convenient for bosses too. You could potentially leave her emotion swap skill off and concentrate without emotions changing, turning her fast-concentrate into just a quick turn move.

edit:I got lv1 kokoro and tried to test SIL on 3f enemies with lv1200 mari to check, and it still wore off instantly. I'm putting it on the wiki as SIL:1. :I Kokoro really feels like "I want to do this neat gimmicky thing but I don't know what I'm doing" the character.

Seems like the SIL is around 100, so yeah, it definitely feels like there are a few zeroes missing there. Interestingly enough, according to the japanes wiki, the mask stat changes work on the backline as well, so at least you can give them a very useful 10% SPD boost so that they regen faster! (sarcasm).
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 07:19:47 AM by Libra »

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #767 on: June 12, 2018, 07:31:46 AM »
It's neat to see everyone's parties in action; unlike LoT1, where characters were rather samey, there's so much variety to be had here. All these setups are so different from eachother, and entirely different from mine. Maybe I should record my second winner fight.

In Kokoro's defense, she has a built in 28% stat boost that most people need a synergy to obtain, and her library cost is in the lowest tier (barring Akyuu) which is very good in endgame. And she can use any subclass attacks, whether atk or mag, so she excels at hitting weakness. Buuut, she also boosts the enemy attack stats by 11% to get it... and a lot of attackers can achieve her damage while bringing more to the table and less hassle.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #768 on: June 12, 2018, 07:55:24 AM »
I'm uploading a fight against
Spoiler:
Fundoshi Man
now. Of note that fight does a much better job of showing off Kogasa, though it's still not as neat as with Instant Attack users.

I think
Spoiler:
Dragon God's Power
may be bugged in regards to the ailment cure. First off, it cures debuffs, which I don't know if it's supposed to, and secondly, *every* instance of an ailment being present except for two times in a thirty use test of Curse of Vlad Tepes, it was cured on the first turn taken after infliction. I don't think I'm unbelievably lucky to have it work every time off recording and on recording for that fight, so I think something's up.

EDIT: I also didn't think of the possibility of the boss attack used perhaps making everything wear off as soon as a turn is taken, but that seems *really* unlikely to me.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 07:58:50 AM by Krhinji »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #769 on: June 12, 2018, 11:09:45 AM »

Well, if you use a magic attack and then a physical one it should make it fairly clear :X Unless the enemy in question has so much you struggle to deal over 1 either way, but in those cases it's generally not a big difference either way. If that's the case, the testing method is the same, but you'd need to use either buff/debuff mix or an "ignores half defense" attack (mountain breaker, dazzling gold, sword of light, awakened orin, maybe a super drill, etc) but now varying offensive power starts to become a problem, or etcetcetc.

Generally if they're both mega high it doesn't really matter, you need an extreme measure either way and whether it's atk or mag isn't important.

Thanks! I was figuring out a grinding team for floor 29-30. I need something that is not Okuu or Orin to grind (yes, I use the earth spirit party except satori).
 Grinding seems to be the most efficient when you can 1st turn one shot mobs without using Aya, so I still grind at 28. But when you're 400 levels above the mobs you're farming, it just doesn't feel right.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #770 on: June 12, 2018, 12:55:25 PM »
Oh, something I just noticed is that Main Character: Reimu no longer buffs her ACC and EVA. This means that now the only way to boost those stats is through Ran's Ability to use Shikigamis on Chen.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #771 on: June 12, 2018, 02:58:48 PM »
Thanks! I was figuring out a grinding team for floor 29-30. I need something that is not Okuu or Orin to grind (yes, I use the earth spirit party except satori).
 Grinding seems to be the most efficient when you can 1st turn one shot mobs without using Aya, so I still grind at 28. But when you're 400 levels above the mobs you're farming, it just doesn't feel right.
Earth Spirits team is pretty great in endgame after awakening... I think. Even Satori should be good when you're running the rest of the team, because in endgame def/mnd isn't nearly as important as HP (plus you can potentially tweak them up). She should actually be able to take hits, now. Same goes for the previously fragile Orin, and Utsuho finally makes the jump to durable, and their awakenings rock... Earth Spirits is a lot better in endgame than normal game.

If you're got 30F unlocked, you absolutely want to farm metallic kedamas. This will require Aya, but you'll gain so much more EXP it's worth your while. It's also worth your while to awaken Shou (you can have extra awakenings easily now) and use Appraiser Shou's Radiant Treasure Gun to do it, since she'll ~double kedama exp and they have so little HP she requires basically no investment other than TP and accuracy. Aya/-attacker-/-attacker-/Shou more or less. At this point you probably want to use the "Favorites" party settings to make a farming party and normal party setup you can easily swap between. There's no gems on 30F, but it doesn't matter, since you'll gain enough levels you can grind on B11F later for gems. 30F drops adamantite and orichalcum for the best equipment anyway.

Bonus points if you give Aya
Spoiler:
Dragon God
for the party mp regen. Everything is deathly weak to NTR on 30F, which might influence your choice of two attackers to go with Aya and Shou. If you don't have a good NTR option, they're all weak to WND, just less so- and 3/4 are weak to CLD or FIR each. You -can- do it without awakened Shou, but it'll really slow things down, and you can't really get the metallic kedamas without Aya until you're massively overleveled, which is the main source of the exp.

When you move on to B11F, everything is deathly weak to SPI, and nearly all are weak to PHY to a lesser amount. Half is weak to FIR, the other half does not resist. Many of the battles will only have a single target; the special subclasses can potentially let anyone do it with their single-target SPI skills. You might want to put Rinnosuke in front and Nazrin in back for here because you're really just grinding for gems, but once you can speedily finish battles the EXP is still decent. It's not easy to one-shot things here; plan to use atk/mag buffs before attackers move and Akyuu or herb of awakening for Boost. You'll probably want lv1200+, but it's easy to reach off Metallic Kedamas.


EDIT:It would be helpful to actually point out the parts of 30F swarming in metal kedamas, huh... hah. I personally used the bottom right since I hadn't even finished the floor yet, so I don't know if one is better than the other, but there sure was a lot of them around. Use the "attachment link".
There are a few spots where it spawns, one of them is the place where the switch to unlock the f29 rocks was and there's another one in one of the squares on the southeast of the map. They are ridiculously fast, have very high EVA, very high defences and are weak to DTH.
[attach=1]
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:21:39 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #772 on: June 12, 2018, 05:33:52 PM »
Interestingly enough, according to the japanes wiki, the mask stat changes work on the backline as well, so at least you can give them a very useful 10% SPD boost so that they regen faster! (sarcasm).

I think that's saying that it works while Kokoro is in the backline. It's a little vaguely worded. Makes a lot more sense to work that way, anyway.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #773 on: June 12, 2018, 05:53:07 PM »
Huh. If Kokoro's mask works properly from the backline, then she would... ACTUALLY be useful. That's something to test. 11% offense boost from backlines ain't half bad. Her awakening halves the debuffs to a trivial amount, and being a fairly good attacker would just be her side-benefit.

Meanwhile, I'm 43 floors into my Corridor dive... Aya is pretty much necessary if you want to do this, because otherwise a single battle in a Risky floor can potentially kill you before you get to move, wasting most of your effort over the last 1~2 hours. Especially due to enemies like Rafflesia that can Explode and one-shot the party. Since you can farm gems on b11f at a good pace, there's little reason to spend amulets on any chest below 3 or 4 !s during a trip like this, as the whole goal is dust stock; and you'll get more than enough keys for all 4 and 5 ! chests, so amulets are exclusively for exchanging for dust/remnants. It takes roughly 50 floors to accumulate enough dust for the best items; I'm at 12k at 43 floors. I have 12 keys too, so I really may as well start using them on 3 ! chests.

What the heck do Fever floors do, exactly? Lucky floors boost exp/money (the encounters barely give a decent amount with a 200% boost at proper level anyway, though...) and Risky floors boost level and something else, but I'm not sure what Fever floors are for.

edit:The floor immedately after I bought my first Tokugawa Statue... YESSSS

« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 06:02:20 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #774 on: June 12, 2018, 06:08:52 PM »
Kokoro's mask buffs sound useful on paper if they work from the backline, but thinking about it more, I think that the increases on the enemy side outweigh the increases on the player side. Would rather use Maribel for that kind of thing.

Fever Floors boost "rare enemy" encounter rates, but I have no idea what rare enemies are supposed to be in the Corridor. For all I know, they're the "missing" enemies that I've never seen that are in the game's files. If I had to guess, they're the powerful enemies that have the best drop rates for the Corridor exclusive items, like the Mirror and Magatama palette swaps.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #775 on: June 12, 2018, 06:12:08 PM »
I think that's saying that it works while Kokoro is in the backline. It's a little vaguely worded. Makes a lot more sense to work that way, anyway.
According to this line, it simply applies its effects to backline characters: 「感情の面・楽」の敏捷上昇は後衛のキャラにも効果があるため、パーティ全体のMP回復速度を微増させられる。
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 06:15:40 PM by Libra »

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #776 on: June 12, 2018, 06:15:59 PM »
Fever Floors boost "rare enemy" encounter rates, but I have no idea what rare enemies are supposed to be in the Corridor. For all I know, they're the "missing" enemies that I've never seen that are in the game's files. If I had to guess, they're the powerful enemies that have the best drop rates for the Corridor exclusive items, like the Mirror and Magatama palette swaps.
That's probably the case. That's good if you want to farm black holes, which are a critical ingredient for some of the best equipment, and rather expensive to purchase directly. The missing enemies are probably saved for deeper in, although I wouldn't be able to say.

Also, yeah, buffing the enemy's attack and magic is pretty bad... it's too bad her awakening doesn't decrease the enemy buffs by half as well.

Using my keys on !!! chests whilst I have a surplus has been pretty good, I've gotten multi-jewel drops, orichalcum/adamantite, and even an iron man's headband. They do give useless equipment a large amount of the time, though. Just hit 200f, 50 more floors to go! (I started at 150)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 06:28:59 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #777 on: June 12, 2018, 06:27:03 PM »
According to this line, it simply applies its effects to backline characters: 「感情の面・楽」の敏捷上昇は後衛のキャラにも効果があるため、パーティ全体のMP回復速度を微増させられる。

Oh I see, I was reading a different line entirely, in the notes to the right of the skill effect, which says "後衛にも効果がある". something like "There is also an effect in the rear guard". That line you quoted for it provides much more clarity on the nature of the effect. That is fairly useless then.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #778 on: June 12, 2018, 06:29:35 PM »
Ugh, I'm an idiot... I didn't realize I didn't actually get much counter from a battle, and let my 7-star counter run out. Thankfully I had already spent nearly all my dust on the statue by now anyway, so it's not a big deal, but the 100 floor trip was pretty hype, and I was looking forward to just stocking all the dust I had in the end.

For science purposes; I gained 762 Dust Stock off my ~3031 dust, after 51~52 floors. It seems it's not a 1-1 ratio, because that's only 25 percent! I guess it's good that I didn't just hit 100 floors and expect to stock 100% of my dust. That's important for future people to know, as well. I wonder if it simply maxes at 25%, or just heavily prorates?
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #779 on: June 12, 2018, 06:33:01 PM »
Ugh, I'm an idiot... I didn't realize I didn't actually get much counter from a battle, and let my 7-star counter run out. Thankfully I had already spent nearly all my dust on the statue by now anyway, so it's not a big deal, but the 100 floor trip was pretty hype, and I was looking forward to just stocking all the dust I had in the end.

For science purposes; I gained 762 Dust Stock off my ~3031 dust, after 51~52 floors. It seems it's not a 1-1 ratio, because that's only 25 percent! I guess it's good that I didn't just hit 100 floors and expect to stock 100% of my dust. That's important for future people to know, as well. I wonder if it simply maxes at 25%, or just heavily prorates?

I believe it does max out at 25%, since I did about 60 floors and only recovered 500 dust out of the original 2000 or so I had.