Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F  (Read 38149 times)

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dawnbomb

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2017, 06:28:06 pm »
So, i want some opinions. in my Labyrinth 1 mod, should i tell players the games status effect number, or the actual chance that correlates into.

for example, Reimu's Evil Sealing Circle PAR(45) or PAR(135%) or should i do something different? Like maybe (135/100)*100= 74 so should i say Evil Sealing Circle PAR(74%)

Again this is Laby1, not 2 where she starts with PAR(60)
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LonelyGaruga

  • Nickname: Black Wolf
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2017, 07:29:26 pm »
EDIT: On another note, has anyone tried to make Tokiko work? Her stats are absolutely incredible - especially if you use Reimu alongside her - but her personal skills kinda suck.

I haven't personally tried her, but looking at her, I do agree that most of Tokiko's personal skills are pretty bad since Reading is RNG, but she's got the 3rd highest base ATK in the game (under Flandre and Yuugi, Nitori is also higher with Maintenance) accounting for leveling rates and she gets 50% more ATK/MAG with her synergy skill and her Thick Book of Martial Arts Awakening skill (which encourages not using Reading). She hits about 4-9% harder (depending on the attack) than Tenshi backed by max Courageous Sword and Keystones of Spirit, and it's not like Tenshi excels at anything besides hitting hard. Most of her personal skills are pretty bad too, and Tokiko is only a little bit less durable than Tenshi is (she even has more PHY affinity than Tenshi). Youkai Yakuza Kick isn't as strong as World Creation Press, nor is it as MP efficient, but it's still a solid personal spell card. Tokiko looks like she would be best used as a straightforward attacker without touching Reading imo.

Quick question for you guys: taking Awakening skills into account, who would be considered the worst character in LoT2? I'm aware that before awakening skills, the worst character was Youmu, so I was wondering if that has changed due to said skills.

Man, looking at every character repeatedly, I just can't single one out. Everyone has something good or at least very usable about them. I'd just generalize and say "super frail characters" that can't withstand a VOI attack, since Time-Space Warp tends to be employed by bosses before using their VOI attack, and if the character can't survive the attack, they can't really be used against said boss without risking them being eliminated purely by random chance. In particular, Kaguya and Patchouli are actually weak to VOI (testing indicates +20% more damage), so no way they're taking any hits from this. You'd think that, since VOI attacks can't be resisted with affinity, they'd be weaker than other attacks, but the only damaging VOI attack with a confirmed formula, Space Compression, is 66% ATK - 25% DEF, which is actually one of the stronger attacks in the game. I personally would prefer to avoid using a character that can't be equipped to survive a random VOI attack.

An example, IMO, is Minoriko - sure, her regen and heals are good, but there are many more choices for healing in LoT2, and she doesn't even get any kinship boosts whatsoever. Though, it should be noted that Minoriko is by no means "bad" - not in the same sense in which some LoT1 chars were bad in the postgame, at least (looking at you, Remilia/Patchouli).

EDIT: Also, a question of "strategy" about the Endless Corridor. As far as I understood, the corridor in its current state ends at 100F. What happens once you complete 100F? Does it "loop" back to 100F or are you sent out forcibly? I'm asking because I want several of the items I would need dust to buy. Also, are the items you obtain from chests and enemies better as the floor counter increases, or can I just farm 1F to obtain the stuff I need (such as Infinity Gems)?

tbh Minoriko's one of the stronger NTR attackers in the game with Warm Color Harvest, though compared with Tenshi, Yuuka, and Suwako (and to a lesser extent Nitori), she's not that strong. It's certainly an interesting way to use her though, as she self-sustains a 100% MAG buff, has the highest SPD of the aforementioned characters, and can go a pure MND build for magic bosses. From my damage tests, she's losing out on about 10% damage with 3x Machine God Lucifer if she goes pure MND on level up bonuses instead of MAG. Might be worth looking at if someone wanted to go attacker Minoriko.

Presently, the Infinite Corridor caps at 101f and loops infinitely, so you can farm an indefinite amount of Seven Star Dust to purchase items. However, you can get everything in the shop from item chests except for the Shuttle Body and Large Macaroon Collider anyway. Item chests do get better further into the Infinite Corridor (at least, Infinite Gems drop in higher quantities, maxing at 10 from one treasure on 1f but going as high as 20 on later floors), but as far as I can tell, you can acquire everything that drops from treasure on the 1f except Machine God Lucifer. You can also see every random enemy as early as 1f as well.

Besides a bunch of Plus Disk equipment, there's some potent main game equipment like the Ribbon and the Quartz Charm in the Infinite Corridor. No First-Aid Kit though, regrettably. The Life Aura is a strong defensive main equip, but not as strong as the First-Aid Kit.

Although, awakened Reimu does have pretty sweet tanking stats after a few turns. >_>

Her HP is untouched, so it's not as great as it looks. I'd rather look at using Reimu as an attacker imo. 5% more ATK/MAG every turn capping at 50% is pretty great, put Grand Incantation on top of that and Reimu should be able to deal good damage. Main thing that's problematic for her I would think is that she only has SPI for her personal spell cards, which is redundant coverage since Murakumo's Blessing also has SPI spell cards available.

elminster1372

  • Nickname: Zarator
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2017, 07:56:44 pm »
I haven't personally tried her, but looking at her, I do agree that most of Tokiko's personal skills are pretty bad since Reading is RNG, but she's got the 3rd highest base ATK in the game (under Flandre and Yuugi, Nitori is also higher with Maintenance) accounting for leveling rates and she gets 50% more ATK/MAG with her synergy skill and her Thick Book of Martial Arts Awakening skill (which encourages not using Reading). She hits about 4-9% harder (depending on the attack) than Tenshi backed by max Courageous Sword and Keystones of Spirit, and it's not like Tenshi excels at anything besides hitting hard. Most of her personal skills are pretty bad too, and Tokiko is only a little bit less durable than Tenshi is (she even has more PHY affinity than Tenshi). Youkai Yakuza Kick isn't as strong as World Creation Press, nor is it as MP efficient, but it's still a solid personal spell card. Tokiko looks like she would be best used as a straightforward attacker without touching Reading imo.

I agree, though from the looks of it the current endgame is more about cleaning random encounters than facing single-target bosses, which makes me a bit wary of pure single-target attackers like Tokiko (or Yuugi, for that matter), as opposed to AoE ones like Nitori or Flandre. Though, once Tokiko gets Drago God or WINNER subclasses, it should manage to become a force to be reckoned with.

Quote
Man, looking at every character repeatedly, I just can't single one out. Everyone has something good or at least very usable about them. I'd just generalize and say "super frail characters" that can't withstand a VOI attack, since Time-Space Warp tends to be employed by bosses before using their VOI attack, and if the character can't survive the attack, they can't really be used against said boss without risking them being eliminated purely by random chance. In particular, Kaguya and Patchouli are actually weak to VOI (testing indicates +20% more damage), so no way they're taking any hits from this. You'd think that, since VOI attacks can't be resisted with affinity, they'd be weaker than other attacks, but the only damaging VOI attack with a confirmed formula, Space Compression, is 66% ATK - 25% DEF, which is actually one of the stronger attacks in the game. I personally would prefer to avoid using a character that can't be equipped to survive a random VOI attack.

I'd assume that you should still have enough time to switch out at least one or two chars, unless Time-Space Warp has 0% delay when used by corridor bosses (IIRC Second Sun incurred a delay after using it - I may be wrong though). Even so, though, frail chars should be avoided, I agree with the sentiment - though, maybe, kinship boosts can remedy it to an extent (I'm not too optimistic, seeing as Suwako still feels very frail, but it's also true that I'm not yet using all-stat boosts like Machine God Lucifer on her).

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tbh Minoriko's one of the stronger NTR attackers in the game with Warm Color Harvest, though compared with Tenshi, Yuuka, and Suwako (and to a lesser extent Nitori), she's not that strong. It's certainly an interesting way to use her though, as she self-sustains a 100% MAG buff, has the highest SPD of the aforementioned characters, and can go a pure MND build for magic bosses. From my damage tests, she's losing out on about 10% damage with 3x Machine God Lucifer if she goes pure MND on level up bonuses instead of MAG. Might be worth looking at if someone wanted to go attacker Minoriko.

The problem is that Minoriko has only NTR attacks to speak for herself, whereas you could use something like Nitori which can at least hit 2 elements or more. Not to mention that Warm Color Harvest may have a good formula, but it's still worse than Mishaguji-sama or Violent Motherland (both of which also cause useful debuffs on top of damage).

Though you're right that Minoriko is still very usable, and that she's prolly a tad above Patchouli. However, given my recent experience with Kokoro, I really think that LoT2 chars need to be tested to be properly evaluated - you can no longer guesstimate them easily like in LoT1, where I could tell some chars like Mokou sucked even without trying them (though, even then, I still found many chars in LoT1 to be much better than I originally expected, such as Mystia, Yuuka, and Maribel - unfortunately, you can't test as easily as in LoT2 though).

Quote
Presently, the Infinite Corridor caps at 101f and loops infinitely, so you can farm an indefinite amount of Seven Star Dust to purchase items. However, you can get everything in the shop from item chests except for the Shuttle Body and Large Macaroon Collider anyway. Item chests do get better further into the Infinite Corridor (at least, Infinite Gems drop in higher quantities, maxing at 10 from one treasure on 1f but going as high as 20 on later floors), but as far as I can tell, you can acquire everything that drops from treasure on the 1f except Machine God Lucifer. You can also see every random enemy as early as 1f as well.

That's good to know, thank you - though, assuming the boss on 100F is the currently strongest foe, I guess there's no point in going further until 3peso actually produces an update (unlike in LoT1 where you could keep beating WINNER). Speaking of Machine God Lucifer, is the item to craft it currently impossible to get, or can it be dropped/obtained somewhere?

DarkAtma

  • Nickname: OmegaAtma
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2017, 09:30:54 pm »
Is there any lilith equivalent enemy in Lot2? plenty of exp and gold rewards with trivial effort?

elminster1372

  • Nickname: Zarator
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2017, 11:41:54 pm »
Just reporting that I did obtain 20X Infinity Gems on Endless Corridor 1F from a !!!! chest. Perhaps, the quality of drops is solely linked to chest quality rather than floor quality (and maybe, high-quality chests are more likely to spawn on higher floors?)

qazmlpok

  • Nickname: Bane
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2017, 11:51:07 pm »
EDIT:just picked a purple key on the infinite underground mode and my game crashed,should i click ignore next time

Clicking ignore wouldn't fix anything.

Is it possible for you to get me the Japanese (or English, if any is displaying) text associated with this event? And is it possible to give me a save file near it? I'm honestly not playing at all, so I have no clue at all what this event is like.

jaxter0987

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2017, 01:05:20 am »
I'm appalled at this slander against Minoriko!!
Honestly, my use of Minoriko in my lineup was initially due to "nostalgia" as she was used in my LoT1 line up before ultimately getting replaced at the final stages of the Plus Disk iirc. I'd check but I don't have my LoT1 stuff handy right now. That said, I love using Minoriko in LoT2. Desire to Rest is just stupid strong and Minoriko has MP for days even without that. She's not a main tank for sure but she's already amazing at what she does which is being able to quickly be swapped in and give a fat heal to someone in need (which will be improved further by her awakening) and at least in my experience, Minoriko can be bulky enough to take stray physical hits, even more so if you want to invest in her HP stat to make use of that regen.

To simplify, I think Minoriko's biggest selling point is her SPD and leveling rate combined with those heals. Sure, there are other options for healing but I would argue that none can match her SPD.

Without Plus Disk, it was easy to see Youmu as the weakest link because everything she did, someone else could do better and the stuff thats unique to her wasn't powerful enough to compensate. That said, I just really love the idea that in LoT2, if I wanted to use a character just because she was my favorite character, I wouldn't have a hard time getting through the game because of that decision.

DarkAtma

  • Nickname: OmegaAtma
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2017, 01:42:03 am »
Clicking ignore wouldn't fix anything.

Is it possible for you to get me the Japanese (or English, if any is displaying) text associated with this event? And is it possible to give me a save file near it? I'm honestly not playing at all, so I have no clue at all what this event is like.

Hold my sake

hope this helps, a key literally spawned beside me

Arcvasti

  • Nickname: Unmoving Puppet
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2017, 03:27:50 am »
...In particular, Kaguya and Patchouli are actually weak to VOI (testing indicates +20% more damage), so no way they're taking any hits from this...

Amusingly, Patchouli can achieve one of the highest levels of VOI damage reduction[I'd say THE highest, but Maribel's VOI affinity is just ridiculous]. Passive Philosopher's Stone gives a whopping 70% damage reduction from whichever element you used latest. All of Elementalist's spells are VOI elemental.

LonelyGaruga

  • Nickname: Black Wolf
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2017, 03:36:54 am »
I agree, though from the looks of it the current endgame is more about cleaning random encounters than facing single-target bosses, which makes me a bit wary of pure single-target attackers like Tokiko (or Yuugi, for that matter), as opposed to AoE ones like Nitori or Flandre. Though, once Tokiko gets Drago God or WINNER subclasses, it should manage to become a force to be reckoned with.

I guess you could say that about the current update, but the Infinite Corridor does appear to be set to spawn random bosses in the future, based on some things like Keine's library showing all of them at level 192 (why 192 is beyond me, the regular random enemies are level 1 instead). There's a strong possibility that a future update will max at a floor that spawns a random boss or something. Plus future potential bosses that may be possible to fight repeatedly. Presently, the only bosses that can be refought are Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi and its enhanced version, Plus Disk's final boss, and its enhanced version on B10f, but the highest level of those is merely 499, and Infinite Corridor is where all the items are at anyway.

Tokiko would get 50% more MAG with her synergy skills, but idk if her book spell cards would be strong enough for random encounters even so. I'd actually assume that they would be pretty good though, especially her FIR one since a lot of Infinite Corridor enemies are weak to FIR. Still, it's undeniable that her multi-target ability is worse than her single-target ability.

I'd assume that you should still have enough time to switch out at least one or two chars, unless Time-Space Warp has 0% delay when used by corridor bosses (IIRC Second Sun incurred a delay after using it - I may be wrong though). Even so, though, frail chars should be avoided, I agree with the sentiment - though, maybe, kinship boosts can remedy it to an extent (I'm not too optimistic, seeing as Suwako still feels very frail, but it's also true that I'm not yet using all-stat boosts like Machine God Lucifer on her).

Second Sun set its delay to 20000 when it used Time-Space Warp (some other bosses did not though), and unfortunately, so do Serpent of Chaos and Kedama Goddess, who are set to always use a powerful VOI attack immediately after, and as the two strongest bosses in the game, they're kind of the most important (there is no productive reason to defeat the latter boss in the current update though). Though I think I'm being unfair to the frail characters since they're primarily offensive, and even bulky attackers will struggle to survive these VOI attacks. They're ridiculously strong.

I'm pretty sure Suwako can survive Serpent of Chaos' Disintegrating Breath with a max HP setup, First-Aid Kit, 3x Machine God Lucifer, and Transcendent subclass (for stats and the 10% damage reduction), but tbh pretty much anyone can with that much defensive investment, and you're very unlikely to have 3x Machine God Lucifer unless you grind a ton. When I hit 100f, I was using 3x Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" instead, which is a 412% boost in HP and the best "non-broken" defensive piece of equipment. With that setup, a First-Aid Kit, HP Second Boost, and Transcendent subclass, Suwako still couldn't survive the attack reliably, taking 101% of her HP in damage. I'm not 100% on the damage formula for the attack though, but it seems to do roughly 50K on every character before damage reductions. It uses the same animation as Space Compression and has the same delay, so I'm assuming it's Space Compression by a different name. JP wiki says it's a MAG attack, but it didn't trigger Magic Counter for me, so idk about that.

Space Compression is 66% ATK - 25% DEF, so DEF is pretty meaningless in surviving it since it accounts for so little. Difference between no equipment boosting DEF/MND and having 3x Machine God Lucifer is about 2% less damage (+4K DEF/MND for Suwako, assuming Transcendent and regular DEF/MND Boost).

The problem is that Minoriko has only NTR attacks to speak for herself, whereas you could use something like Nitori which can at least hit 2 elements or more. Not to mention that Warm Color Harvest may have a good formula, but it's still worse than Mishaguji-sama or Violent Motherland (both of which also cause useful debuffs on top of damage).

I guess so, but tbh I wouldn't count the lack of debuffs against Minoriko, if you're clearing random encounters then the lack of any debuffs is hardly a problem. Pure damage is all you'd need for that. But then, buffing MAG and MND takes longer than just buffing ATK or MAG, so she'd have worse damage either way.

But yeah, my point was just that it's a potential use for her. I'd still rate Minoriko on the lower end of characters overall.

That's good to know, thank you - though, assuming the boss on 100F is the currently strongest foe, I guess there's no point in going further until 3peso actually produces an update (unlike in LoT1 where you could keep beating WINNER). Speaking of Machine God Lucifer, is the item to craft it currently impossible to get, or can it be dropped/obtained somewhere?

Presently, the 100f boss has the highest HP, but is not the highest leveled boss. The Kedama Goddess is the highest leveled boss. But its AI script is very simple: all it does is use Spirit Decomposition on the leftmost slot on odd turns, then Time-Space Warp > Space Compression on even turns.. There is also no point in fighting it in the current update, it drops nothing usable besides stat Gems. I forgot to mention, but enemy levels do continue to rise as you repeatedly loop Infinite Corridor's 101f, but they reset to their usual levels when you leave.

The Machine God Lucifer's craft material shows up as a treasure item in the Infinite Corridor, no other way to acquire it exists presently. In about 50+ hours I acquired 17 of them, but another user acquired 15 in 17 hours. Totally unfair luck in comparison to mine.

Just reporting that I did obtain 20X Infinity Gems on Endless Corridor 1F from a !!!! chest. Perhaps, the quality of drops is solely linked to chest quality rather than floor quality (and maybe, high-quality chests are more likely to spawn on higher floors?)

Huh, I'm pretty sure I never saw a 20 Infinity Gem treasure ever on 1f, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly...it was almost two months ago, but that seems like something I'd remember. Anyway,I wish quality of drops was linked to the chest, I've seen so many !!!!! chests that dropped things I could get from a !! chest that it felt like a ripoff. Especially when it was Fairy "Navi". !!-!!!! were the ones I most reliably found rare items from. I don't think a single one of the MGL craft material I acquired was from a !!!!! chest (but I did get some of the other items that can be crafted using that material from them, like the Power Dragon Scale Mail).

Actually, reading back on the thread, the only report of a 20 Infinity Gem chest was from a !!!!! chest as well, maybe that's the key to it. I do find that when it comes to quantity of Infinity Gems, chest quality does consistently reflect on how many are received from it. It also appears that I may have misinterpreted a post as saying MGL showed up in chests. Looking at it again, I think it actually does not drop from chests, so you'll have to farm up the materials and Seven Star Dust for that.

Amusingly, Patchouli can achieve one of the highest levels of VOI damage reduction[I'd say THE highest, but Maribel's VOI affinity is just ridiculous]. Passive Philosopher's Stone gives a whopping 70% damage reduction from whichever element you used latest. All of Elementalist's spells are VOI elemental.

Curiously, their description says they're VOI element, but when actually used, they're displayed as FIR/CLD/WND/NTR instead. Once *WINNER* comes out Patchouli would have a legit VOI spell though.

That's a pretty good catch though, thanks. Don't think Patchouli has any business doing something like that, but if she did, she could withstand a VOI attack, contrary to what I said.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2017, 04:47:41 am »
On the matter of Tokiko; while Youkai Yakuza Kick is a pretty solid skill considering it's delay in tandem with the power, she might be best off using subclass attacks if you wanted her running offensively. The reason being, she could activate Reading and have all her passives active, then use subclass attacks that won't cancel it like Youkai Yakuza Kick does. Really, there's not much reason to use her if you don't want her Reading passives anyway; unless you just -really- like Tokiko, you can get better attackers easily... although she'd be no slouch with the +25% atk/mag and her Reimu/Marisa synergy, +50% atk is no joke. Buuut, the downside is, after Awakening you're missing out on a hefty chunk of atk/mag using her that way. (But on the upside, it also means you'll have a super strong Youkai Yakuza kick in stock for whenever you'd like!)

Anyway, about her Reading passives- their effect on the straight buff/debuffs is 10%, rounded down, so enemies with 40% debuffs will go to 44%, or allies with 80% buffs will go up to 88%. It makes her pretty decent at maintaining these effects once they're on the field whilst she provides whatever damage or supportive efforts she can directly manage. The thing is, you can also just have people renewing these effects... but on the upside, she powers up all the buffs -and- debuffs AND still gets her turn to use skills at the same time, so it's not entirely underwhelimng. Hmmm.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 05:01:08 am by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

LonelyGaruga

  • Nickname: Black Wolf
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2017, 05:27:17 am »
If you wanted to attack with Tokiko, that 25% ATK buff from not having Reading is pretty invaluable. That's a good 20% or so damage (wow, uh...ATK multipliers really don't do as much when characters already have an enormous ATK stat). Kinda figure that most players might have some favorites that they particularly want to use, so having Tokiko as a dedicated attacker doesn't seem bad since she is at least a high tier character for that. I mean, with what I've done with Tenshi as an attacker, I think Tokiko's in the territory of "you could do a bit better, but would it even matter?". I'd rate Youkai Yakuza Kick as about comparable with World Creation Press overall, seems to do about 12% less damage but has 6600 delay compared to 6000, plus Tokiko has better SPD. If Tokiko can consistently get Reading every other turn, then Youkai Yakuza Kick would be better overall since Reading more than doubles its damage (I'm assuming that, since Reading is removed before Youkai Yakuza Kick does damage, Tokiko counts as not-Reading for the +25% ATK/MAG bonus when damage is calculated).

Actually...looking at Nitori, if you ignore Overheating, Tokiko's damage with subclass spells is comparable with Nitori's (besides for Samidare Slash). Super Scope 3D is pretty busted (more than 3x what Youkai Yakuza Kick normally does), but she can actually compete with Nitori. Just, Overheating makes it a no contest in Nitori's favor. Still, that's pretty exceptional.

qazmlpok

  • Nickname: Bane
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2017, 12:12:59 pm »
Hold my sake

hope this helps, a key literally spawned beside me

So they spawn randomly? 3peso isn't making this easy on me.

There aren't any unicode characters on those lines that are immediately obvious. I'll see if I can find something.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2017, 02:32:42 pm »
If Tokiko can consistently get Reading every other turn, then Youkai Yakuza Kick would be better overall since Reading more than doubles its damage (I'm assuming that, since Reading is removed before Youkai Yakuza Kick does damage, Tokiko counts as not-Reading for the +25% ATK/MAG bonus when damage is calculated).
I doubt the reading proc is -that- reliable (you'd miss out on an awful lot of damage on failures if it didn't work 30% of the time), and I'm not sure the stat bonus would switch that quickly either. Although you're correct in that if Tokiko is just a favorite then she certainly does the job well enough. Although if you're comparing with Nitori, one of the big things that makes Nitori great isn't her attack stat, it's that maintennance easily gives her high values for -all- stats later in the game (resistances, affinities, speed, defensive stats, etc- I know that end of the normal game she was comparable to my MAIN TANKS, with all levelups in the attack stat!)
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

elminster1372

  • Nickname: Zarator
  • Gender: Male
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2017, 04:04:30 pm »
Just out of curiosity: what's the current level required for the endgame? I'm at around 490 now

LonelyGaruga

  • Nickname: Black Wolf
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2017, 05:35:07 pm »
I doubt the reading proc is -that- reliable (you'd miss out on an awful lot of damage on failures if it didn't work 30% of the time), and I'm not sure the stat bonus would switch that quickly either. Although you're correct in that if Tokiko is just a favorite then she certainly does the job well enough. Although if you're comparing with Nitori, one of the big things that makes Nitori great isn't her attack stat, it's that maintennance easily gives her high values for -all- stats later in the game (resistances, affinities, speed, defensive stats, etc- I know that end of the normal game she was comparable to my MAIN TANKS, with all levelups in the attack stat!)

I doubt Reading is that reliable either, but it's not like it's really been tested, so hard to say. I personally wouldn't ever use it, I detest RNG. As for Nitori, Maintenance does give her a wealth of advantages in a bunch of other areas, but her role in a party is still to primarily deal damage, so that's kind of what matters most with her when comparing with other characters. If the character can take a boss' hits then they don't really need to be more durable, right?

Just out of curiosity: what's the current level required for the endgame? I'm at around 490 now

About 540-560 should get you through 100f. The Kedama Goddess is intended for level 760, but you can beat it in the mid-500s with some Medicine of Life (HP+1280% plus some status resistances). Just need to exceed 500K HP comfortably and heal that kind of damage off within a turn or two. Komachi can even solo it.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2017, 05:43:16 pm »
Medicine of Life makes tanks with notable hp regen sound crazy. :V
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

DarkAtma

  • Nickname: OmegaAtma
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2017, 05:49:38 pm »
I am currently at 22F,how is miko supposed to be built as? tanky strategist mage? i am using tokiko as a pseudo remilia backup

still missing kokoro and koishi,hopefully i can clear the rocks on B7F now

elminster1372

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2017, 06:11:56 pm »
About 540-560 should get you through 100f. The Kedama Goddess is intended for level 760, but you can beat it in the mid-500s with some Medicine of Life (HP+1280% plus some status resistances). Just need to exceed 500K HP comfortably and heal that kind of damage off within a turn or two. Komachi can even solo it.

Does this mean that even my damage dealers should hit 500k? I am well far from that number, still (I would at the very least need to invest all the way through with jewels and veteran tomes, as well as library levels and Medicine of Life), I mean, even my bulkier members such as Ran barely break 200k HP at the moment with Flower Blade of Kikirousei or w/e it's called. I do guess I could hit such numbers in the lvl 700+ though.

I am currently at 22F,how is miko supposed to be built as? tanky strategist mage? i am using tokiko as a pseudo remilia backup

still missing kokoro and koishi,hopefully i can clear the rocks on B7F now


I think Miko is better off as a straight-up magical nuke, it can reach some incredible numbers with proper gear and buffs. Personally, I have her using the Archmage subclass to add CLD and DRK coverage.

LonelyGaruga

  • Nickname: Black Wolf
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2017, 06:38:58 pm »
Medicine of Life makes tanks with notable hp regen sound crazy. :V

Yeah, Komachi can even top 1m HP with 3x Medicine of Life, a First-Aid Kit, and 600 library level while at around level 500. Medicine of Life is pretty much one of the best pieces of defensive equipment, Regalia (HP+600%, +172 to all affinities) is high up there too. But for VOI attacks and attacks that you already have high affinities for, Medicine of Life is best.

I am currently at 22F,how is miko supposed to be built as? tanky strategist mage? i am using tokiko as a pseudo remilia backup

still missing kokoro and koishi,hopefully i can clear the rocks on B7F now


Miko's a straight mage, basically the MAG equivalent of Nitori in a way. Raw damage output all the way with her.

B7f's rock blocking the path to B8f is gonna require you to beat the final boss, travel to 27f, and hit all the switches on it. In order to access 27f, you need to recruit everyone.


Does this mean that even my damage dealers should hit 500k? I am well far from that number, still (I would at the very least need to invest all the way through with jewels and veteran tomes, as well as library levels and Medicine of Life), I mean, even my bulkier members such as Ran barely break 200k HP at the moment with Flower Blade of Kikirousei or w/e it's called. I do guess I could hit such numbers in the lvl 700+ though.

That would be ideal, but it isn't like, necessary, as you can use ATK debuffs and damage reducing effects like Transcendent to reduce the damage you take too. Simply being a Transcendent would reduce it to 45K, and a Strategist would further reduce it to 40K (but Time-Space Warp might result in a frontline with no Strategist). You can also just accept that there's a random possibility that an attacker might be eliminated through random chance with Time-Space Warp > Space Compression and just aim for a quick win, but there's really no point in doing the boss in the mid 500s compared to the mid 700s or whatever level you feel comfortable doing it.

DarkAtma

  • Nickname: OmegaAtma
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2017, 08:03:55 pm »
Do multiple appraisers effect stack?

Libra

  • Nickname: Lib
  • Gender: Male
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2017, 09:13:33 pm »
Do multiple appraisers effect stack?

 I believe it was said that they do.

DarkAtma

  • Nickname: OmegaAtma
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2017, 09:33:20 pm »
I believe it was said that they do.

I am gonna try this as a farming method,hopefully its the most efficient

Appraiser rinnosuke,komachi and nazrin,all with MP items and Magician OR ame-no-murakumo flandre spaming leavetin on the forest floors 21-23F

elminster1372

  • Nickname: Zarator
  • Gender: Male
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2017, 12:58:45 am »
@DarkAtma: Multiple Appraisers do stack indeed, but at your current level you'd likely get more mileage just trying to make your kills quicker and/or making longer streaks to score the highest xp/money bonus possible, so try to use your best team rather than appraisers. For long-term farming, wait at least until 27F where enemies start dropping stat gems.

EDIT: Incidentally, beware everyone that Infinity Gems cap at 200, I found it out the hard way

DarkAtma

  • Nickname: OmegaAtma
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2017, 02:52:56 am »
Defeated yamato no orochi i swear those battle buffs are broken

I am still missing a single kokoro mask and i am going crazy checking every post floor with no results

What monster drops the ironman material for most last page item crafting? i only have one
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 03:01:45 am by DarkAtma »

Arcvasti

  • Nickname: Unmoving Puppet
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2017, 04:39:34 am »
Honestly, Yamata No Orochi is mostly just a chance for your waifu Ame-No-Murakumo's Blessing person to show off. That said, the fight takes pretty long and some of their attacks can kill an unprepared attacker, so things can still get at least moderately tense if you get careless.

Libra

  • Nickname: Lib
  • Gender: Male
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2017, 05:55:14 am »
  The first 2 Kokoro masks can be obtained before beating Futo (one on B1F and the second one in B4F I think), the other 2 masks are on 22F and 23F (according to the japanese wiki anyways).

LonelyGaruga

  • Nickname: Black Wolf
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2017, 06:12:48 am »
What monster drops the ironman material for most last page item crafting? i only have one

That one's a random item from the Infinite Corridor's treasure chests.

mono_side

  • Neophyte
  • Nickname: Lona
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2017, 10:32:06 am »
Uh, anyone have tips for defeat boss in 12F?

DarkAtma

  • Nickname: OmegaAtma
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2017, 01:08:02 pm »
Honestly, Yamata No Orochi is mostly just a chance for your waifu Ame-No-Murakumo's Blessing person to show off. That said, the fight takes pretty long and some of their attacks can kill an unprepared attacker, so things can still get at least moderately tense if you get careless.

was mostly talking about those random buffs you get on the battle,i find that highly unnecessary for a final boss

with that said,ame flandre did wrecked the final boss via starbow break and ame no murakumo SPI slash,gonna switch it on remilia after
 

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