Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F (Read 167326 times)

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #270 on:** January 09, 2018, 05:50:18 PM »

Can take Hina's damage a step further than Sorcerer by using Murakumo's Blessing for the 56% damage bonus and higher MAG bonus.

tbh Hina gets a lot of damage on her Awakening considering most other characters don't even get close to 50% more damage, she's only really let down on bosses that are really debuff resistant and the fact that she's limited to FIR and DRK for her personal spell cards (and Pain Flow wipes her debuffs, not sure if it's comparable to Parsee's Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely). Hina's one of the few characters that can act with an effective 100% MAG buff (and she "buffs" herself with Misfortune God's Biorhythm, looking at something like turn 2 -50% debuffs on her, that's on a pace similar to Reisen's Grand Patriot's Elixir, but a constant buff), she's somewhere like top 10 in MAG stats accounting for level rates, and having a secondary debuffer to maintain debuffs like Reisen or Awakening Miko can produce a huge improvement in her damage. Her Awakening makes her pretty amazing, just with some key weaknesses that prevent it from being as strong as it could be. It would be way better if she had Sheer Force, but she regrettably doesn't.

Serela · « **Reply #271 on:** January 09, 2018, 07:02:31 PM »

I mean, sure, you can always use Murakumo's Blessing, but it's kind of a waste to put it on Hina over someone else. She doesn't get the damage bonus on subclass skills so she can't even get a lot of use out of it's strong attacks- they're there if the boss resists drk/fir and is weak to SPI but in those cases you'd be vastly better served with it on any of your other attackers.

She doesn't have Sheer Force but she does have well over 100% debuff rate, at least. Not many bosses resist def/mnd debuffs to a large degree.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #272 on:** January 09, 2018, 07:53:22 PM »

It's more that, if you're in a situation where you want to attack with Hina, she's probably your strongest attacker by a large margin, so there isn't really anyone better suited for Murakumo's Blessing. Hina will either be the only attacker you need or just the one most worthwhile for Murakumo's Blessing. You can just switch it to another character when Hina's an undesirable attacker. It's a little tedious to frequently switch subclasses, but it makes a big difference in how smoothly a boss fight goes.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #273 on:** January 12, 2018, 11:17:33 PM »

I beat the game with my NG+ file, and Shredding Amnisieri doesn't seem to appear. I wonder if it's because it was a NG+ file

IRUN · « **Reply #274 on:** January 12, 2018, 11:34:25 PM »

The three deformed bosses don?t spawn in NG+ due to a bug.

IRUN · « **Reply #275 on:** January 16, 2018, 07:54:22 AM »

So, when do you think 3peso will release the last update this year?

Ghaleon · « **Reply #276 on:** January 16, 2018, 07:06:59 PM »

Quote from: IRUN on January 16, 2018, 07:54:22 AM

So, when do you think 3peso will release the last update this year?

Pretty sure you may as well throw darts to figure that out.

Serela · « **Reply #277 on:** January 16, 2018, 07:17:54 PM »

Especially considering he seems to have dropped off the face of the internet entirely, I just hope the guy's even OK.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #278 on:** January 16, 2018, 10:02:44 PM »

Same. Though I still think that this will one day be finished. Hopefully.

Libra · « **Reply #279 on:** January 30, 2018, 10:54:11 AM »

I got really lucky and somehow managed to defeat the Serpent of Chaos pretty underlevelled with Nitori as my main attacker, literally the only 2 characters that could survive Disintegrating Breath were Mokou (by resurrecting) and Minoriko. The first breath hit Minoriko and missed Aya without killing Nitori; the second one killed Nitori and left only Mokou alive (who was immune to his follow-up Spirit Decomposition) but by that point he was low enough that Yuuka and Momiji could finish the job.

The Kedama Goddess was actually much easier for me since Nitori 2 shotted her with her 3D cannon (and she was a few levels lower at the time too).

DarkAtma · « **Reply #280 on:** February 01, 2018, 06:55:38 PM »

What happens if you try challenging orochi without any character using the murakumo class on the first go?

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #281 on:** February 01, 2018, 08:50:05 PM »

Reimu gets equipped with it and replaces your party's leftmost slot.

Yggdrasil · « **Reply #282 on:** February 03, 2018, 02:58:46 AM »

Quote from: LonelyGaruga on February 01, 2018, 08:50:05 PM

Reimu gets equipped with it and replaces your party's leftmost slot.

This was not the case on my very first LoT2 Plus Disk run, where despite having Magician as his subclass, and never even touching the Murakumo subclass, Rinnosuke was the one who got the buff. Reimu wasn't in my party. I originally suspected it might be the first character down the list in your party, but I had Marisa in the same party, so unless it's really weird it might be related to BP as well? That or it's a check related to specific characters.

Swapping out Rinnosuke for a level 1 Reimu resulted in her being the Murakumo character, being dragged from the back.
Swapping out Rinnosuke for a level 1 Tenshi resulted in Yuugi, the character I had in the left-most slot at the end of the battle, getting the Murakumo buff.

So I imagine it's Reimu if she's in your party, and whoever is in the left slot otherwise.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #283 on:** February 03, 2018, 03:12:41 AM »

Ah, I took someone else's word for that one and was wrong to have done so. Checking the JP wiki, it says that whoever was in your frontiline's leftmost slot at the start of the battle gets Murakumo's Blessing.

Yggdrasil · « **Reply #284 on:** February 12, 2018, 07:19:26 PM »

I believe Meiling's China Qigong is bugged (or mistranslated, but I think it's the former). Having 3 points in the skill, I noticed two things: the counter for the skill did not disappear after using Brilliant Light Gem or Mountain Breaker, and that Meiling did a little more damage with each Brilliant Light Gem to a B4F enemy, up to a certain point.

By testing with her solo vs. some Plus Disk enemies, I found that each use of Brilliant Light Gem *noticeably* increased her damage (And by which I mean it wasn't just standard damage variation), and that using Concentrate after attacking resulted in the maximum possible heal, and *then* removed the counter.

This means that the damage portion of China Qigong is a bonus only removed upon Concentrating -- meaning this passive is insane and her Awakening *doubling* the damage bonus means Meiling is actually beyond nuts.

And yes, I made sure she had 0% ATK buffs and her subclass was Strategist. She was completely alone.

Also of note, in the JP version and the most recent ENG translation, there is no actual counter for China Qigong -- it just shows up on the buff menu... thing.

IRUN · « **Reply #285 on:** February 18, 2018, 06:05:46 AM »

Tried out China Qigong, and yeah it does seem to be bugged. Neither attacking nor concentrating removes it from the buff menu.

Yggdrasil · « **Reply #286 on:** February 18, 2018, 09:16:01 AM »

Quote from: IRUN on February 18, 2018, 06:05:46 AM

Tried out China Qigong, and yeah it does seem to be bugged. Neither attacking nor concentrating removes it from the buff menu.

It's being removed on Concentrate and resetting to the first stack for me. Are you sure you're checking with another character after concentrating? I'd imagine so, but I'm just making sure.

IRUN · « **Reply #287 on:** February 18, 2018, 02:45:35 PM »

Yep, sorry. It does reset to first stack after concentrate; just that it never disappears from the buff menu even after concentrating.

IsGaming · « **Reply #288 on:** March 08, 2018, 10:36:48 AM »

Hey, I've been looking through these LoT2 threads for a couple of months now, and I wanted to say a few things, I'm not sure if they've already been answered, but here goes nothing:

Yuuka does indeed retain any form of Boost % through Extra Attack after the first cast, I gave her some namely buffs like Mari's DIY Border or the usual Herb of Awakening, she was fully MAG-boosted and it was the +Disk final boss (so as to do it with the highest HP possible so her Torturing Nature doesn't take noticeable effect yet), her damage was affected by the Boost effect through all EA procs.

So, awakened Yuuka's guaranteed double EA after Concentrate can make some curious interactions with Boost effects, I can confirm this since I awakened her.

IRUN · « **Reply #289 on:** March 08, 2018, 10:36:03 PM »

A new Splatoon 2 update is coming alongside Monster Hunter World update. Guess we?re going to have to wait a little longer

IRUN · « **Reply #290 on:** April 03, 2018, 01:54:14 AM »

Tried Awakened Yukari, and she's actually a pretty effective attacker now. Shikigami Plus has become a single target physical nuke, buffs decay slower on her, and enemy DEF is further decreased. Subbing Sorceror makes Hyperactive Flying Object do decent damage.

nav' · « **Reply #291 on:** April 15, 2018, 01:01:37 PM »

What is the best place to gain levels pre-20F bosses? Random encounters in the top two floors were irritating, so I used Rumia and Chen to avoid most of them, but of course now I'm severely underleveled (average level 74 when the boss recommended level says 87-88).

Phen · « **Reply #292 on:** April 15, 2018, 04:30:40 PM »

Abuse Aya/Yuyuko/Reisen combo for first turn instant death spam. Aya goes first and gives her turn to Yuyuko, Yuyuko then uses Flawless Nirvana to instant death everything. Reisen is there just to reduce their resistance to Instant death although it might be overkill with Nirvana's 100+% chance. Flawless Nirvana should death any enemy there that's not outright immune. Make sure you max Banquet of Regrets, MP boost and Nirvana if you can. Give Yuyuko some accuracy equip for the more evasive enemies. You might also be able to make Yuyuko outspeed most of the enemies if you put all her level ups and gear towards speed. In that case, you can use Guidance from Aya to save on MP. Or make Yuyuko a Monk and everyone else strategists for chances at first turns for her. If you have a spare MP boost book, give it to Aya so she can use Advent more before running out. Kill a few groups, return to town to heal and level. Repeat until you get up to a decent level. Most of those enemies are also weak to nature so you could put a good nature attacker in the last slot to clean up anyone that gets missed.

Arcvasti · « **Reply #293 on:** April 15, 2018, 06:52:37 PM »

Honestly, you can probably beat both the 20F bosses at your current level. They're much easier then their 12F incarnations since the Magatama loses Black Universe and the Mirror is weak to SIL now. Once you've beaten them both, then the 20F depths is really good for grinding. All the encounters there are miniboss fights, so they're even fun compared to the Sky Fairy/Puppet Top filled groups you see elsewhere on 20F.

nav' · « **Reply #294 on:** April 15, 2018, 09:18:35 PM »

Quote from: Arcvasti on April 15, 2018, 06:52:37 PM

Honestly, you can probably beat both the 20F bosses at your current level. They're much easier then their 12F incarnations since the Magatama loses Black Universe and the Mirror is weak to SIL now. Once you've beaten them both, then the 20F depths is really good for grinding. All the encounters there are miniboss fights, so they're even fun compared to the Sky Fairy/Puppet Top filled groups you see elsewhere on 20F.

Oh, no doubt many players can, but I have no idea what I'm doing. As things stand, I used a variant of the trick suggested by Phen until I was just 3-4 levels below recommended. Then both bosses were defeated mostly by just throwing damage dealers at them and keeping Yuuka/Flandre from premature death. So much for strategy...

Quote

Puppet Top

These are perhaps the worst thing in the game so far. So annoying when they just target the 3rd or 4th slot right off the bat.

nyttyn · « **Reply #295 on:** April 16, 2018, 06:00:22 AM »

I've started a NG+, going through with the new people, trying them all out at a low level, and...The characters are of varying worth in a low level party. Surprisingly, some of them are pretty good, and others...eghhh...

Shou - Tragically garbage. Hungry Tiger is somewhat okay, but it has a horrendous delay, and her lower-than-others base attack does her no favors for that. Radiant Treasure Gun is awful until you can start seriously out-gearing the trash she fights, Dazzling Gold is at least okay but still too expensive, Aura of Justice is hot trash, and she has both low starting MP and trash MP recovery. Her gimmick also doesn't really work in the first stratum, given the low length of the fights, and her lack of MP recovery means she needs to be enabled by items you don't get for a long time. Her affinities also undermine her bulk all the way up until the fire stratum She's honestly just completely outclassed by Suika and Momiji.

Mamizou - Good bulk, good damage, great base MP, at least some MP recovery (albiet not great), and can work without her gimimck, at least until she gets it (at a fairly reasonable point too, since she just needs 25 for the base, then 12 to upgrade it).

Futo - Her AoE is kind of miserable, but she's got the base formulas she needs to at least help out, especially in bosses. The plates gimmick doesn't really work all that well though and requires a truly silly amount of skill points to get going, so she starts lagging behind around the second stratum.

Miko - Miko is completely and utterly terrible in a NG+ run. Her affinities are insane, shes got overall really good resists, but her base stats are bad, her library cost and level up difficulty are tremendous, and while she doesnt have bad MP issues, her spells hit for a fairly low amount of damage. This is, of course, because her passives are incredible, but tremendously expensive. You can probably still get away with lugging her around, since it's LoT2, but...ugh. She's also locked into the two worst elements because ~of course she is~

Kokoro - Kokoro has the usual composite attacker issue of not really having gear until the third stratum, and the issues of her father of wanting a super expensive list of passives to function. She's also got really lackluster stats, but at least a good library cost. Also, her character synergy is - also extremely passive hungry, go figure.

Tokiko - Needs all her reading passives, and has exceptionally sub par damage, with extreme MP issues. She can fish for DTH at least.

Koishi - Extremely solid in a NG+ run, possessing good damage, decent enough base MP (albiet with terrible recovery without dumping 24 SP), and she's not really reliant on her gimmick either.

Akyuu - Completely worthless until you get subclasses. After that point she's a tabula rasa, but you'll probably just use her as a nuke. Not the best before you get her fully online, but decent.

Overall, the plus disc characters should probably only be used in NG+ if you really like them, as most of them were seemingly not designed with NG+ in mind for one reason or another, and are on the whole very skill point hungry. You can, to some extent, alleviate these woes for *one* character with training manuals, but that's about it.

Libra · « **Reply #296 on:** April 17, 2018, 12:17:27 PM »

Yeah, all of the Plus Disc character's are mostly centered around a particular gimmick that takes a lot of skillpoints or even their awakening passives to actually work, so they basically suck in the main game.

IRUN · « **Reply #297 on:** April 19, 2018, 06:16:32 AM »

Any news on 3peso?

nyttyn · « **Reply #298 on:** April 19, 2018, 06:59:32 AM »

It's been nearly a year and a month now, he's been utterly dark on his site and twitter, and nobody in the jp side of things has any clue as to his wherabouts either.

It's safe to say that the plus disc will go unfinished at this point.

Belated edit, but I gotta say that even if he is fine, kinda sucks to release a half finished product, promise post patch support to finish it, then bail. RIP monee.

Serela · « **Reply #299 on:** April 19, 2018, 02:03:15 PM »

A friend did do some checking in on that and got confirmation that

A.3peso is fine (so it's not like he got sick or fell off a balcony or anything)
B.Apparently there's been some r-rated dungeon games with art that looks suspiciously like his :V

But yeah definitely don't hold your breath on Plus. At this point it's pretty much just an "if he feels like it someday" sort of thing, and absolutely not guaranteed.