Topic: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games  (Read 1248 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sparen

  • Danmakufu Artist
  • Git ready, git set, PUUSH!
  • Gender: Male
On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« on: August 19, 2017, 11:24:04 pm »
To whom it may concern,

Recently, non-Touhou games made by members of the MotK forum have, under stricter enforcement of RaNGE board guidelines (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6181.0.html), been moved from RaNGE to Akyu's Arcade. This "Touhou-only" aspect to what was the primary forum board for programming and game creation here on MotK has a number of implications for all of the game designers who create games that are related to Touhou but aren't explicit fan games (i.e. a number of Danmakufu games inspired by Touhou that don't include Touhou characters, etc).

For example, we now have to fight for space with all of the discussion on commercial games on Akyu's Arcade, such as Splatoon, Fire Emblem, Pokémon, etc. Akyu's Arcade seems to be specifically geared towards discussion on these types of games - explicitly non-Touhou games made by various companies mainly outside the doujin spectrum and discussion on events such as GDC and E3. Additionally, threads in Akyu's Arcade generally get updated frequently and the fact that our dev threads don't really fit in combined with our lower update frequency means that it will be hard to maintain a presence.

Next, this shift means that we'll be advertising and posting updates to our games on one forum board while asking questions and communicating with fellow programmers on their own projects on a very different board. Getting feedback therefore becomes harder, as we are more split up. In the past, if you needed help with danmaku patterns, you went to RaNGE - under the new system, if you have a Touhou-inspired game on Akyu's Arcade, the crowd that generally provides feedback on patterns won't be present in the same way and it will be much slower to receive feedback on design elements in general. I may be wrong about this, but people who provide feedback for danmaku projects don't usually check Akyu's Arcade for updates on danmaku projects.

Finally, on a side note, I remember back when I first visited the Art Atelier and was told that Danmaku as an art form didn't belong there - if this still holds, then it definitely doesn't belong in the board for Fire Emblem discussion. This is a continuation of the division of the danmaku sub community that I mentioned earlier.

My end request is some form of middle ground where we can post our projects without being kicked out of RaNGE entirely. A sub board under RaNGE for Touhou-inspired work, for example. I feel that this would be better for both the developers and potential testers/asset creators/collaborators than being placed in Akyu's Arcade, as it seems we can no longer remain in the main RaNGE board.

Thank you.

--Sparen of Iria

P.S. Yes, I know SeitenTouji is next to be moved to Akyu's Arcade, and after seeing a number of other Danmaku projects moved, I feel that I need to speak up.

Sparen

  • Danmakufu Artist
  • Git ready, git set, PUUSH!
  • Gender: Male
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 08:31:09 pm »
Follow ups:

It seems that part of the issue here is that what constitutes a Touhou fan game + what the cutoff is for being allowed in RaNGE. If a game is based on/is a parody of Touhou and/or uses Touhou style mechanics or gameplay (such as Len'en), does it count as a Touhou fan game or a Touhou-inspired work? If it doesn't, should it still be allowed in RaNGE? Gusano's RoSM and my SeitenTouji are both Touhou inspired, but what allows my game to stay in RaNGE while Gusano's gets moved? What is the cutoff? If there is a cutoff being used by the moderators, it should be clearly explained as to what is allowed in RaNGE.

Additionally, in regards to RaNGE itself, why have a 'Touhou-only' policy to begin with? Bulletforge has become more open, with a large variety of non-Touhou scripts released, and historically, RaNGE has been home to things completely unrelated to Touhou (e.g. Self-insert scripts, danmaku for non-Touhou characters, etc.). Is a middle ground truly needed, or does it make logical sense to categorize threads when a game designer has both Touhou and non-Touhou interests?

Finally, though this is a reiteration of what I said before, MotK is one of the few places where we can reach our target audience and having our threads in Akyu's Arcade essentially "banishes them to obscurity."
To quote Awalys:
"Basically, if your fangame thread ends up in Akyu's Arcade, you might as well just give up at that point."

I've made the existence of this thread known to other fan game designers. Hopefully we can get some discussion going.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 08:34:47 pm by Sparen »
  • AFCDTech

WishMakers

  • Myouren's IT Guy
  • cout << "oof" << endl;
  • Nickname: Wish
  • Gender: Male
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 08:37:56 pm »
As someone who is currently only making Touhou scripts, while this may not necessarily be pertinent to me, it shuns everything that can even be remotely similar to Touhou.  For example, why wasn't Len'en boss rush banned on sight?  It's not Touhou according to the definition.  But Len'en is a Touhou-style game.  Much like Seitentouji and Gusano's series.  There is some personality to these games that doesn't make it "just another shmup or bullethell".  If it was a CAVE-like shmup style, maybe.  But in their current state, they are Touhou-related, especially with DNH primarily geared toward Touhou-like games anyway.  If there really is a problem with these games, we should make a sub-forum like "Touhou projects" already exists for strictly non-Touhou fan-games.  I have a feeling Akyu's Arcade won't be incredibly happy with all these new types of posts and certainly will not give the feedback necessary for these projects to grow and prosper.  Also, what about those RaNGE contests that clearly wanted characters that didn't originate in Touhou?

I come to RaNGE most days and am delighted to see fangames and scripts, no matter the "universe" they belong to.  If there is going to be such a problem with a minute detail such as this, then we have a problem.  RaNGE is a place for us coders to share our projects and grow as coders and as people (no matter how corny that sounds).  My point is that we as a community shouldn't be so divided over such a small detail, and RaNGE should be open to these types of games.  We may have found each other through Touhou, but that doesn't mean tastes change a little bit and we can't make our games our own.  Like I said prior, if we want to keep the main RaNGE page to strictly Touhou, that's ok, so long as we have a place within RaNGE that supports these other projects instead of dumping them somewhere else and leaving them for dead.
Return of Eastern Wonderland! Made by a PC-98 fan FOR fans!
1ccs: SoEW (N), LLS (N), MS (N), EoSD (N, H), PCB (N), IN (N, H), PoFV (N, 5 char), MoF (N), SA (N), UFO (N), TD (N), DDC (N), LoLK (N), HSiFS (E, N)
Extra: EoSD, IN, PoFV, MoF
Scoring: HSiFS Easy (PB: 1.1b)

iVAwalys

  • Nickname: Awalys
  • Gender: Male
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 08:47:23 pm »
I absolutely agree. If they seriously wanted to make that kind of change, they should've done it much earlier. It's too late for that now. Almost everyone who's looking for shmup indies searches for them in RaNGE, and not anywhere else. The forum should adapt to the community, not the other way around.

At the very goddamn least, make a subforum for general shmup indies and fangames inside RaNGE. That kind of change would benefit the both sides and would come at no cost.
Lunatic 1CCs: PCB, IN, PoFV, HSiFS
Extra: All except PC-98.

Oh hey look I can do DNH scrips.

WishMakers

  • Myouren's IT Guy
  • cout << "oof" << endl;
  • Nickname: Wish
  • Gender: Male
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 08:48:57 pm »
Quote
At the very goddamn least, make a subforum for general shmup indies and fangames inside RaNGE. That kind of change would benefit the both sides and would come at no cost.

This.  100% this.
Return of Eastern Wonderland! Made by a PC-98 fan FOR fans!
1ccs: SoEW (N), LLS (N), MS (N), EoSD (N, H), PCB (N), IN (N, H), PoFV (N, 5 char), MoF (N), SA (N), UFO (N), TD (N), DDC (N), LoLK (N), HSiFS (E, N)
Extra: EoSD, IN, PoFV, MoF
Scoring: HSiFS Easy (PB: 1.1b)

Delfigamer

  • * Merry, bride, absolute (HR)
  • of course the best girl never wins
  • Gender: * RenMerry chuu chuu ♥
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 09:06:53 pm »
Was there a reason to introduce the division in the first place? What will happen to the tons of non-Touhou games that are already buried there?
Also, I was pretty sure Akyu's was not for the games that you made yourself, like SAVIOR is not for the art that you made yourself.

The Jealous Witch did nothing wrong.

PhantomSong

  • The Ghost Living through Everyday Life.
  • Eh, it doesn't matter.
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Phantom's Lyrics
  • Gender: Food.
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 09:36:09 pm »
I'd like to say, this is first and foremost a Touhou forum. The point of Akyuu is to find the meeting points of people that are fans of other games, but these are not dedicated to them. There are existence of other forums for fanmade games.

Quote
Almost everyone who's looking for shmup indies searches for them in RaNGE, and not anywhere else

Frankly, I don't see where you're getting this from. Most the non-touhou games posted in RaNGE usually flop; I don't see why this would be a meeting point for them. Hell, I've hardly seen anything non-Touhou over on RaNGE with competent progress. I really don't understand by what you mean here.

There's a difference between a Touhou-inspired game and a Touhou fan-game:
Len'en may be Touhou-inspired, but it is NOT a Touhou fan-game.
Same thing with LENK64's music series, the concept is Touhou-inspired, but it is NOT a Touhou fan-concept.

Saying something plays similar to another game is obsolete. Halo isn't a fan-game of Doom just because it plays similarly. Or that Overwatch is a fan-game of Halo/CoD(for a more relevant example).  They are seen as different, individual games under the First-Person Shooter genre.

There are other mediums to get your works out there, if you're using MoTK as your only main medium for advertising you aren't going to see much success, there are many more mediums to which you can get your product out there. Relying on one forum is going to result in a potentially dead product, as most fan-games posted here don't get a lot of attention even if you show competent amount of work.

Frankly, I don't have a problem with the split, this is meant to be a Touhou forum, not a place for other games that may or may not be loosely inspired by Touhou. 
A solution to both sides: A subforum in Akyuu's specifically for developing non-Touhou games.

 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 09:40:41 pm by PhantomSong »

Infinnacage♫

  • Demonic★Moe
  • *
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 11:41:15 pm »
There's no point in moving user-made non-touhou games out of the game-making community that is RaNGE. You're negatively impacting our developers this way. I stand with Sparen on this issue.
  • Music Empire!

Gusano Wornis

  • Member of Team Mystique
  • Nickname: Gusano2314
  • Gender: Human.
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 02:19:02 am »
I agree with Sparen about the split. I got caught by surprise when I finally updated status of my game.
If the admins want to still keep RaNGE as touhou-only at least give us a sub-board for non touhou games, because dev logs in Akyuu's will get lost easily with the active discussions of commercial games.
carrying dead weight since 2015~

Delfigamer

  • * Merry, bride, absolute (HR)
  • of course the best girl never wins
  • Gender: * RenMerry chuu chuu ♥
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 03:17:09 am »
There are other mediums to get your works out there, if you're using MoTK as your only main medium for advertising you aren't going to see much success, there are many more mediums to which you can get your product out there. Relying on one forum is going to result in a potentially dead product, as most fan-games posted here don't get a lot of attention even if you show competent amount of work.
I think it would be much more productive if instead of "you don't belong here" you said "here is a link to a place that will give you much more audience than MotK could ever do" (with "a link" being an actual link to an actual website, of course).

The Jealous Witch did nothing wrong.

PhantomSong

  • The Ghost Living through Everyday Life.
  • Eh, it doesn't matter.
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Phantom's Lyrics
  • Gender: Food.
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 08:17:19 am »
There's no point in moving user-made non-touhou games out of the game-making community that is RaNGE. You're negatively impacting our developers this way. I stand with Sparen on this issue.

So you're saying I should be able to post some kind of Pokemon fangame within RaNGE, or a completely original non-shmup game? Remember, we are a Touhou forum, and content pertaining to non-Touhou games has its place(s), RaNGE should not be one of them. That's for fan-creations of Touhou games.

I think it would be much more productive if instead of "you don't belong here" you said "here is a link to a place that will give you much more audience than MotK could ever do" (with "a link" being an actual link to an actual website, of course).
Frankly, I don't know what you'd expect posting a non-Touhou game in a Touhou forum in the first place.

The issue mostly underlies with the fact that Sparen and Gusano both have games inspired by Touhou, but aren't Touhou games, despite having made Touhou fan-creations. The issue is where do we draw the line? As I mentioned earlier, there are other, potentially better, mediums for non-Touhou projects than RaNGE, but simply put, they don't belong in RaNGE.

Badz

  • Nickname: -Badz
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2017, 01:23:16 pm »
If you ask me, a game with an original setting but clearly intended to have gameplay near-identical to Touhou's (as opposed to a game that just coincidentally happens to play similarly) should count as a Touhou fangame. If it doesn't, then I guess it's time to purge all those Danmakufu scripts about non-Touhou characters!

I think the real question here is one of identity: should MotK be strictly a Touhou board, or should derivatives like Len'en be given a place? Whatever decision is made, it should be applied consistently across the whole board, not just RaNGE.

Moving all these threads to Akyu's Arcade more or less banishes them to being obscured forever by the bigger threads there. Maybe if it is decided that they won't be allowed on the main boards, a subforum for people to discuss their own projects in Akyu's could be appropriate?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 01:25:06 pm by Badz »

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Kilgamayan
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2017, 01:29:36 pm »
We're discussing this issue at present and will let you all know when a conclusion has been reached. o/ Sorry for letting this thread sit in silence in the meantime.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2017, 03:43:08 pm »
I do want to note: It wasn't really left in silence. But I can understand that if no moderator responds it might look like it.

I was highly aware of this thread and initially held my post as I was hoping for opinions and replies from forum members so we can discuss it also together. Until yesterday there was none and PM'd Sparen that I am aware of his post.

Very relieved and happy to see people are replying here. As main moderator of RikaNitori, I've in fact thought about Sparen's post for past two days. It seems I have also some reading to do based on the new replies. Also I'll exchange my thoughts with the staff and come with a initial reply tonight or tomorrow morning. I am quite sure that my post will be a fitting solution for us all.
  • Helepolis' Siege Workshop

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
  • paranoia 4 lyfe
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 am »
In my opinion, Akyu's Arcade is for games we are playing, not games we are making.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.
  • Ask an Oarfish!

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2017, 01:33:23 pm »
I'll start with the TLDR version first and explain more in depth the reasoning. Before I start out, I want to express that this isn't a matter of "X-won Y-lost". As RikaNitori moderator, there is no such thing as "us vs them" neither I intend to turn it into such place. Therefore the following announcement and explanation has been formed fitting us all together. I hope you share the same feeling, if not: Please tell us.

If there are any concerns with the decision, voice your opinion but I expect a civil and well established argument why you might disagree or perhaps have additional notes/


TL DR:
※ As main moderator of RikaNitori, I will NOT pursue the possible movement of fan games and hereby halting any reorganisation plans for the section.
※ Non-touhou doujin or individual fan games are for now OK as long as they are NOT overdone.
※ For now, no new forum section will be created. This will be though kept in mind and re-evaluated soon.
※ Gusano's thread will be pulled back to RikaNitori, effectively reverting the action.


I will now explain in more details about the decisions given in the TL DR

We, or I as main moderator of RikaNitori, never had the intention to banish or reject non-touhou games from RikaNitori and stuff them somewhere so they are lost or drowned among other threads. I am glad Sparen has made an elaborate, well written and established post and spoke up. There is a clear signal then things need to be considered. But keep in mind that my idea or motive was to never tell people: "Go away, yo don't fit in here". I know nobody has accused me or us of any thing, but the underlying tone in some of the posts can be 'assumed' somewhat. But I hate assumptions and I want to know the real deal.

Sparen has made this thread due to the recent move of Gusano's non-touhou fan game. There is nothing to hide. I have in fact sent a Personal Message to Gusano, stating that considering re-organisation of RikaNitori, I plan on moving his and possible future projects out of RikaNitori to Akyu. But even so, I should've thought of a plan or perhaps seek out first the opinion of the community. I do apologise for not doing this and operating without the knowing of other staff members. I am not going to defend myself in this, because like I said: There is no such thing as "us vs them". Based on the forum's purpose, the section's purpose and goals, I've thought about it and decided to reorganise and PhantomSong kind of echos the reason for this sudden decision: We're a Touhou forum.

If I did not misunderstood, to sum up several mentions from members: Wishmakers are notes that Rikanitori is a place for coders to share projects and the detail about non-touhou vs touhou should not be a problem. iVAwalys makes a note about that any changes are too late and should've been done earlier. Also noted in general is that shmup indies are being actively sought in RikaNitori. Delfigamer is worried about the tons of non-Touhou games being burried in the forum section. User Infinnacage claims there is no point in moving non-touhou games as it might negatively impacting developers. Badz notes the existence of non-touhou derivatives, should it lead to a decision, should be applied across the whole board and not just RikaNitori.

I do see quite a lot of assumptions being made. Especially about the claim for tons of non-touhou projects and negative impact on developers. Now I could be a very lame person and demand numbers, links and information to support these claims (note, I didn't call them fake. But they aren't exactly true either). Where I currently work, a large organisation with lots of  judicial sensitivity, if I make such claims then people around me expect me to back my words with concrete information. Without proper backing, claims mean nothing. Any way, we're not at my work and neither we are a company. What seems to be the deal?

MotK is a Touhou forum. Our true love and what brought and brings together is Touhou. Simple as that. Well, it isn't that simple in reality. While most forum sections are devoted to support the need to discuss and share Touhou, sometimes people want to discuss other things. So like any other forum I've seen in my life, there is always room for off topic leisure talk and such. Some forums call them 'General', 'Off topic', you name it. What counts is that people have a clear idea of what forum section offers what. Forum section descriptions should give a simple and clear instruction and the moderators are expected to monitor and moderate where required.
But wait a minute, why do Patchouli's Scarlet Library and Alice's Art Atelier have generic sounding descriptions, noting nothing about Touhou? Good question. I honestly don't know. I've raised this to the staff that we need to keep an eye out for such things as it leads to confusion. Zooming in on RikaNitori, it is a forum section which has always been intended for supporting, motivating and helping out with Touhou fan games. Both the description and the FAQ gives a clear explanation about this. And this is exactly where things get interesting.

So why on earth did I or "we" allow non-Touhou games to be discussed or developed in RikaNitori? That is a very damn good question. I don't know. There isn't a case of "tolerance". There is no case of "ignorance". So what is it then? The first thing to ask ourselves is, were there any non-touhou games long long ago, which were released and promoted on RikaNitori. I don't remember to be honest. Probably? I've been around since 2008, actively rolled into the world of Danmakufu. I haven't run into them. Asking ourselves the second question: Why is there a desire to create and publish non-touhou games on RikaNitori or MotK? I don't know to be honest. WishMakers is asking why Len'en boss rush wasn't banned on sight? I have no idea idea. Should we have banned it then? I don't know what you're implying with this. Speaking of implications, iVAwalys notes that it is too late and we should've done this much earlier. It is kind of hard to act earlier on something when nobody has ever thought of it. People change. Opinions change. Viewpoints change. It is never "too late" for any thing. Whether the change is good or bad that is something different but important to consider.

This is why I started considering the move of these fan games. This is why I decided to reorganise. I am not purging, rejecting, denying, ignoring people or their ideas. I don't intend to banish or exile non-touhou fan games primarily, but I do very much try to keep RikaNitori a main source of information for Touhou related games and development. This is why I effort and care about this forum and its members. I personally care and hope to create a fun place for people. But in return I expect people to have common sense and actively consider the purpose of the forum, not just RikaNitori. People are playing the victim card way too quickly and jump in my opinion way too fast into conclusions. That is kind of disappointing if you ask me. And I don't have to play the victim card at all, because is there any reason for anybody to play the victim card?

I cannot imagine that anybody who has developed a non-touhou fangame in RikaNitori considered MotK a generic doujin forum. This is kind of what Phantom is pointing out in his first post. And I would like to point out the sentence from his post about usage of mediums. Pure as advise, you shouldn't consider MotK as your main medium. Don't misunderstand, everybody is welcome. But ask yourself: "What is my goal". If your goal is to purely entertain the local citizens or visitors of MotK, then yes you can consider this forum as a main medium. Any other reason is not going to work. For art, DevianArt or Pixiv are far better mediums. For videos or promotion, Youtube is a better place. For serious games, Steam is a better place.

To conclude all of this with some last words: Do I have to draw a line somewhere? Yes, as moderator of RikaNitori, I feel I have to. I have to maintain the purpose of RikaNitori section. Does this line mean there will be consequences? Yes and no. Yes, we shouldn't fool the visitors that we've transformed into a generic doujin/game board. Because that is false. No, there won't be consequences for existing OR upcoming non-touhou games for now. Yes, you read that right: for now. Personally, and this is my honest humble opinion, I don't understand the need for alternative universes with Original Characters and such. Plus, I think people are misusing the term: "Touhou inspired games". Touhou is a bullet shooter hell game. There are plenty of those around and they all share the same generic game play: Dodge stuff and usually shoot stuff. You become a touhou related game, if you built upon the universe of Touhou or in relation to Touhou's universe, plot, characters and such. Otherwise you're just another bullet shooter inspired game. Which Len'en is in its core. Being inspired has a far deeper meaning.



This thread obviously has triggered us all to think and discuss. I am glad to see that happening. But just like you're voicing your ideas and opinions, I have to voice mine in relation to RikaNitori.

The TL DR list will become effective when I return home from work. And they are anything but final. I wish to keep the discussion bit more active, just to see what people have to say.

--Helepolis
  • Helepolis' Siege Workshop
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 06:47:55 pm »
The above post agrees with the OP, suggesting that Touhou-like games don't really exist, that Touhou is "just another STG" without the characters and setting. Because the above post is an overall mod statement, it's very important in the long run.

Simply put, that's just not true. Touhou has distinct gameplay that, over the last ten years or so, a large number of games have attempted to target without actually using Touhou characters or the Gensokyo world. Lenen hits harder than others, and is the greatest example of this, but Lenen is following in the footsteps of Seihou. That's a big thing about Lenen: it can't really be properly understood without also understanding Touhou history and Seihou (a huge part of Touhou history).

To suggest that Touhou-like STGs do not exist disrespects this series and what it has done to the entire doujin scene, of which STGs are one of the most important parts.

WishMakers

  • Myouren's IT Guy
  • cout << "oof" << endl;
  • Nickname: Wish
  • Gender: Male
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2017, 03:53:33 am »
Quote
WishMakers is asking why Len'en boss rush wasn't banned on sight? I have no idea idea. Should we have banned it then? I don't know what you're implying with this.

I apologize firsthand to Hele for the confusion, I was a bit emotionally charged at the time.
I asked the question because if Gusano's game was considered a problem, Len'en boss rush is the same kind of game, which I think would have been sent to Akyu as well and much sooner.  It seemed like there was some kind of bias happening, which in hindsight was a paranoid thought and quite unnecessary.  I assumed that it was the same kind of problem.  However, this is also assuming that these games are a "problem" for RikaNitori, which opinions seem to be divided on. 

I still think everyone will be happy if there was a subforum was created for these Touhou-inspired games to keep the main page of RaNGE Touhou-focused, but that also assumes that page gets a good amount of attention to help those projects grow. I agree with the thinking that Touhou is almost its own sub-genre of STG, less focused on the gameplay but the diverse world, music, etc.  If Len'en or SeitenTouji or Gusano's projects were closer to say, a CAVE shmup or something, then my opinion probably would've differed a bit.  There's some gray area here, but in general I think there's a place for not only Touhou content in a traditional shmup style (example being one of the Pure Gensokyo scripts from a little while back, featuring Reimu in a CAVE-like shmup), but also a new shmup with OC's and the like but in a Touhou style (ex. the games in question here).  They are both two sides of the same coin, in a way.  But hey, that's only what I think, Hele has the final say after all. 

 I did find the point that someone brought up interesting (I don't remember clearly whether it was on Discord or this thread) about how BulletForge has been a place to share DNH scripts in general for some time now, and RaNGE was similar.  However I don't think this point is perfect; I don't have access to any proof for this, but I'm willing to bet there is more traditional shmup content on BF than on RaNGE in general, or at least what gets popular.   

Thank you Helepolis for addressing this.  Fingers crossed that the drama behind all this is past everyone.
Return of Eastern Wonderland! Made by a PC-98 fan FOR fans!
1ccs: SoEW (N), LLS (N), MS (N), EoSD (N, H), PCB (N), IN (N, H), PoFV (N, 5 char), MoF (N), SA (N), UFO (N), TD (N), DDC (N), LoLK (N), HSiFS (E, N)
Extra: EoSD, IN, PoFV, MoF
Scoring: HSiFS Easy (PB: 1.1b)

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
Re: On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2017, 09:32:11 am »
@Despatche, you'll have to elaborate your post more specifically instead of the passive-aggressive approach. To be honest I have no idea what you're trying to point out.

@WishMakers, the grey area is what makes it all difficult.  Also, RikaNitori supports all forms of fan games for Touhou: RPG, FPS, STG, Fighting, etc. The real grey area is non-touhou vs touhou which makes the creation of a subforum iffy for me. It doesn't fit within our own forum interests. That is why I also find Badz post very good because it is important to consider the whole forum, not just RikaNitori.

Ah, speaking of bulletforge, I forgot to address that website because Sparen has mentioned it. Bulletforge is maintained and owned by Blargel aka KimoKeine. How that place is moderated is primarily his concern not MotK's. I think it is good that it is a generic host place for bullet hell shooters.
  • Helepolis' Siege Workshop
 

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Theme based on ModernDark64 design by BlocWeb
Page created in 0.078 seconds with 22 queries.