Author Topic: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋 ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」 Report Completed!  (Read 78335 times)

Jimmy

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I really like the fact
Spoiler:
that during the stage 5 bossfight the opponent you face in the first two spellcards depends on whoever you beat down first during the preceding nonspells
and
Spoiler:
that Okina literally takes away all your options in her final spell and uses them against you
.

The music, visuals and danmaku design in this game are absolutely amazing, I'm personally particularly mesmerized by stages 5-6.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 01:16:33 AM by Jimmy »
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK Legacy, HSiFS, WBaWC
Hard 1cc: IN, DDC, HSiFS
Extra clears: MoF, DDC, HSiFS, WBaWC

Goals: Going Extra Hard!

cuc

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  • Probably won't respond 'til this mess is sorted o?
Tengukami has given permission to non-ending spoilers :)
I really like the fact
Spoiler:
that during the stage 5 bossfight the opponent you face in the first two spellcards depends whoever you beat down first during the preceding nonspells
And the 3rd card "Behind Festival" is a combination of the two servants' individual 2nd cards.

However, at least Satano does not end the game when shot down in spell practice mode. The mode is quite buggy.

I don't think an error on trying to open the game is really a piracy-centric problem, though.
Players with keen eyes should have noticed - error message on DirectX DLLs does not necessarily have to do with piracy, since you can get this by directly copying game files from the disc without running the installer, bypassing your normal DirectX update.

OTOH, I recall in the last thread somebody mentioned "UTF-8" text files in the Reitaisai demo. Have you seen such files in the final game? *wink* *wink*
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 01:09:21 AM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

That's nothing. The real shock is that all three sages dress similarly, with a "tabard" from ceremonial Chinese robes over a frilly (hence purely Western) skirt.


Yea, at first I thought that was just a coincidence with Kasen, but now with Okino I'm starting to think that all the sages dress like that.  Something to look out for in future characters, I suppose, although I guess maybe even ZUN considers the matter public knowledge now since he didn't bother keeping Okino's status as a sage secret at all, what with it being flat out stated in her profile.

Jimmy

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Just a little precaution for those who haven't played and/or seen the game yet  ;)
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK Legacy, HSiFS, WBaWC
Hard 1cc: IN, DDC, HSiFS
Extra clears: MoF, DDC, HSiFS, WBaWC

Goals: Going Extra Hard!

So, have we figured out what is the "Jade Scepter of the Skies"?

And the 3rd card "Behind Festival" is a combination of the two servants' individual 2nd cards.


Cool too that if you beat one of them during Behind Festival with the bug, their respective danmaku stops showing (If you beat Mai the stars stop falling down for example).  It's cute to see that their entities have been programmed to each have their 'contribution' in the spellcard, as opposed to them just being there and the bullets coming out of nowhere.

cuc

  • *
  • Probably won't respond 'til this mess is sorted o?
So, have we figured out what is the "Jade Scepter of the Skies"?
It's never once stated in game, but we already inferred it in the last thread. It's the handle of the Big Dipper, pointing at a different direction for each season. It's more accurately the "Jade Ladle Handle in the Sky".
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 06:27:34 AM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

Regarding the endings:
Spoiler:
So, all endings are bad endings?
In Marisas case the 1CC ending and continue ending are basically the same with the 1CC one being more elaborate. No wonder Zun made the extra easier this time around when it is basically required to get the story. I Haven't had the chance to play through the game with the others, which I will do today, but I expect something similar.

Also, Marisa was unaware that she run away? What? How does that happen?  :V

I don't really like this. It kinda feels like the way as in other older games, where the developers intended you to lose even if you win. Congratulations, you beat the final boss: You lose. In LoLK it was almost impossible to get the good ending as a no miss run was required (if you don't take drugs that is). It still bugs me but I get it, as the PDM wouldn't have any purpose otherwise. But now you can't "win" as things are only settled in the extra. Might be me being narrow-minded but I prefer the extra to be an addition to the story. Something "extra" to reveal additional information. Not an integral part of the story.

Spoiler:
The players have a door on their back just like the first 4 bosses (as a side note, your season options are meant to represent that door). That door gives them extra power, lets them go to Okina's place, and (most importantly here) it can be used to quickly teleport away a la Yukari's gaps. Since Okina controls these doors, she's actually the one who teleports the player away at the end of stage 6. So they didn't really run away. In extra, the hero brings a door that leads to nowhere instead, and since the door doesn't have an "other side" Okina can't teleport them away.

This time, Extra really is a stage 7- the true final boss, a continuation of the main story. In that sense, the endings aren't meant to resolve anything, they're meant to lead directly into the next stage. Personally I think it's really cool, but not everyone would like that I guess.
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

Drake

  • *
I think tying your enjoyment of a clear to how much the game pats you on the back is missing the point of clearing at all. You didn't actually lose just because the game's story tells you that your character failed. LoLK doesn't even call the no-miss ending the "good" ending.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Probably a continuation of the "post-Bubble corporate life sucks" theme, which is front and center in LoLK, and features in Kyouko's interview in Alternative Facts. At least that's what Japanese players felt. They were rather dismayed at the suggestion that even in Gensokyo you have to do a laborious job interview with a demanding boss.

And if you beat HSiFS on Lunatic, you
Spoiler:
get Okina commend you worthy of being her underling in the final "thanks for playing" message
.

So, clearly I need to read the written works more. If I had been doing so, the idea of retconning would have never occurred to me.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

It's never once stated in game, but we already inferred it in the last thread. It's the handle of the Big Dipper, pointing at a different direction for each season. It's more accurately the "Jade Ladle Handle in the Sky".
Good point.

Also, clarifying, in Cirno's extra stage, it's Eternity who made her collect the Doyou season, right? Does this mean Eternity is actually smarter than she lets on?

Or it's just the fact that she's (formerly) an enemy god if Matara somehow caused Cirno, who went through her backdoor, somehow collected the proper season to fight Matara?

Either Eternity's actually way smarter than what we initially thought or quite literally the planets aligned and Cirno hit a lottery's worth of luck by re-entering Okina's realm at the exact moment she's in the Doyou state, thus giving her the 5th season that all of the other player characters worked so hard to come up with.

Spoiler:
The players have a door on their back just like the first 4 bosses (as a side note, your season options are meant to represent that door). That door gives them extra power, lets them go to Okina's place, and (most importantly here) it can be used to quickly teleport away a la Yukari's gaps. Since Okina controls these doors, she's actually the one who teleports the player away at the end of stage 6. So they didn't really run away. In extra, the hero brings a door that leads to nowhere instead, and since the door doesn't have an "other side" Okina can't teleport them away.

Spoiler:
I get the first point. Its the reasons why our heroines had no chance of winning on their first run. The dialogue doesn't make any sense to me though. Okina stating that Marisa ran away in the final test when she was sending her away. Marisa says that she just vanished but gives in to Okinas explanation that she indeed did run away. Of course its a minor point but its weird how the dialogue is set up.

Edit: Nevermind. I played through the other character stories and I got my answers.
Spoiler:
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 12:28:23 PM by Wrathful_Scythe »

So, clearly I need to read the written works more. If I had been doing so, the idea of retconning would have never occurred to me.

The sages were brought up in-game in Subterranean Animism, but it was years ago in an off-hand "blink and you'll miss it moment" only on Reimu-Yukari's route (which is one route out of a whopping six) at their conversation with Yuugi (Yukari is annoyed at the denizons of the underground apparently breaking the deal, making Yuugi recall that deal was the one the sages made with them long ago).

Chill Observer

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Did someone in this topic say, no one ever uses summer?

It's arguably the best for survival. Second best if you know how to utilize autumn to the maximum, but I suck at using autumn, so...

Winter is nerfed hard sadly. It's only good for no release runs. Spring I don't even know what it's good for.
Retired Touhou player. Not involved with anything Touhou anymore.

Yep, noticed that too. While it does nothing for your damage, the ability to minibomb multiple times is pretty useful. Especially as you get your used level back most of the time. Additonally it's a lot less risky than autumn, as you don't tend run into enemies. Well, I do at least.  :V

Winter can be pretty strong if you use the bug letting all levels shoot instead of just one. Though I don't know what was intended, having only one or all lasers shoot. Having only one laser shoot on level 6 feels like the weakest of all suboptions. All lasers activated on level 6 melt about everything and feels pretty OP. But then again, Autumn and Summer feel quite OP too.

Spring feels like the most reasonable suboption. Its useful but can't really be abused. It's like the way it meant to be and right on spot regarding balance. Now if summer and autumn weren't as great as they are, you would actually have a reason to use spring.

How do you rate Okinas last spells in terms of difficulty? I really struggle with autumn. The other options are pretty tame compared to it and while I have to deathbomb here and there I don't lose near as many lives as in autumn.

Chill Observer

  • Aimless fanatic
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While it does nothing for your damage
excuse me

summer release deals a CRAPTON. like, more than current winter. probably highest out of the four. the little sub-options seem to deal slightly more than in the demo too, i've noticed.

final card? winter has the easiest, autumn isn't terribly bad either but it's pretty hard to get used to. summer is annoyingly painful. i think spring is the hardest of the four.

by the way, all lasers firing at once for winter is a bug. it's not meant to do that, only one is meant to fire at a time. each level has a stronger laser than the previous.
Retired Touhou player. Not involved with anything Touhou anymore.

What's the status quo with the Winter lasers? Do they work properly now (one laser at a time), or do lasers stack until you stop shooting?
Playing Touhou since 18 March 2012. Playing video games since 19XX.
Normal 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS, CtC.
Extra 1CC: EoSD, PCB+Phantasm, IN, PoFV (K&S), MoF, SA, TD, HSiFS, CtC+Phantasm.
Hard 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, TD, CtC.
Lunatic 1CC: EoSD

Chill Observer

  • Aimless fanatic
  • haHAA
What's the status quo with the Winter lasers? Do they work properly now (one laser at a time), or do lasers stack until you stop shooting?
they stack until you stop shooting. this is forced whenever you gain a new laser option, or when dialogue appears.

i also cleared extra, pretty easy, not proud of it though. i have a nice meme
Retired Touhou player. Not involved with anything Touhou anymore.

excuse me

summer release deals a CRAPTON. like, more than current winter. probably highest out of the four. the little sub-options seem to deal slightly more than in the demo too, i've noticed.

I didn't meant the direct release on the boss. That is broken as hell. I mean the spread damage itself is near useless in bossfights as those little shards spread all over the place and do minimal damage.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
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Yeah summer's the weakest option in terms of shot damage for sure. All the others are pretty good to where I'd exclusively worry about the release and not the shot.

I haven't been able to play a lot because work, does summer even do anything noticable in stages if you're playing like, aya or marisa and have low range?
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ふねん1

  • Scientific editor
  • If you're alive, you can always keep moving.
I've only played the Lunatic versions of Okina's finals, but my difficulty order would be: Spring > Summer >>> Fall ~= Winter. Granted, if you're not as good with micrododging and/or managing the aimed bullets while going through the arrowheads, then Fall might be a tier above Winter, but not by too much imo.

Speaking of which, Okina is quickly becoming one of my favorite final boss fights in the series. I feel like ZUN made an effort to make her fight completely the opposite style of Junko's - whereas Junko didn't bother with flashy attacks and tried to just straight-up kill you, Okina wants to demonstrate her godly powers by being as flashy as possible, while still killing you over and over lol. And I think she's much better off for it. Her patterns have so many cool ideas and designs, and none of them are really that trivial, even if their difficulty can vary noticeably, meaning you have to constantly remain on your toes. This essentially makes her fight feel much more engaging from a gameplay perspective compared to Junko's. Then there's the general atmosphere of it all, with you traveling through back doors into each of the seasons in sequence, and the music - dear god the music. I can't get enough of this boss fight, I tell ya. Anyone else feel the same way?
"Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of thinking." - Carl Sagan

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Jimmy

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  • gaining big pounds
^
I wholeheartedly agree. ZUN's absolutely nailed the concept of her stage 6 iteration and executed it almost perfectly. The cycle through the seasons throughout her battle combined with her theme literally sends chills all over me, I'm not joking. Then there's her final spell based on the player's sub-season, which adds even more uniqueness to her already unique battle. Only thing that's kinda lacking is that her second throughout the fifth nonspells do appear to be somewhat generic, but are compensated with said concept that ZUN implemented. On top of that, the visual presentation of HSiFS is absolutely top notch, and I can hardly stop listening to the themes from stage 4 to EX since the full release came out.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 03:00:57 PM by Jimmy »
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK Legacy, HSiFS, WBaWC
Hard 1cc: IN, DDC, HSiFS
Extra clears: MoF, DDC, HSiFS, WBaWC

Goals: Going Extra Hard!

Maple

  • Mukyuu!
Yo, there's already a video with maxed-out score. Yes, it uses that character with that season.

Part one: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31753276
Part two: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31753527
Better quality on yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdEvj5RFdFI&hd=1

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
I don't know how you all feel about mods, but if you find the season items too transparent for your liking, someone made a mod that makes them less transparent.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Speaking of which, Okina is quickly becoming one of my favorite final boss fights in the series. I feel like ZUN made an effort to make her fight completely the opposite style of Junko's - whereas Junko didn't bother with flashy attacks and tried to just straight-up kill you, Okina wants to demonstrate her godly powers by being as flashy as possible, while still killing you over and over lol. And I think she's much better off for it. Her patterns have so many cool ideas and designs, and none of them are really that trivial, even if their difficulty can vary noticeably, meaning you have to constantly remain on your toes. This essentially makes her fight feel much more engaging from a gameplay perspective compared to Junko's. Then there's the general atmosphere of it all, with you traveling through back doors into each of the seasons in sequence, and the music - dear god the music. I can't get enough of this boss fight, I tell ya. Anyone else feel the same way?

I have pretty mixed feelings about this. Okina's entire fight feels more like a piece of art than a video game, which isn't necessarily a good thing. I feel like ZUN was focused a lot on the overall atmosphere than the individual patterns. Like, her nons are awesome the first time I saw them just because of the coolness of flying between the previous stages. But after the initial "wow" value, I find them to be some of the blandest in the series... I'm not sure if I like this or not. Junko's nons were awful admittedly but her spells were all pretty fun to dodge, where Okina's stuff is more fun to look at.
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

Shikigami101

  • Training at full force!
I just wanted to throw my thoughts about HSiFS somewhere in this topic.
I think this game is better than LoLK in some aspects. The music seems more atmospheric (especially Okina's themes along with 6th stage theme and extra stage theme - I think they're amazing), I've gotten more into the game's plot and characters. I like the new sub season mechanic too, although it can be abused (summer, for example). The game has become slightly easier, which (for me) is a better thing. LoLK was too difficult.
The idea of placing the true final boss in the extra stage isn't bad, but despite that I'd prefer that extra told a new, related to the main plot story like in the previous games. In terms of drawings, I especially like Reimu's portraits. ZUN's skills certainly improved.
I'd say that ZUN didn't fail at making the game fun. HSiFS doesn't have any truly troubling game mechanics, thanks to which it became much simpler. I still wouldn't recommend it for beginners, though. We've got better candidates.

And something slightly off topic...
I doubt Okina will make an appearance in Antinomy of Common Flowers, as, after all, it's 15.5 and not 16.5, but if she will appear in a fighter someday I bet her story will be intriguing. She reminds me slightly of Yuuka and Yukari, which should make some interesting dialogues. 



Hard clears: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK, HSiFS
Lunatic clears: PoFV, MoF, HSiFS
Extra stages: EoSD, PCB (+ Phantasm), IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK, HSiFS
owo

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
I don't know how you all feel about mods, but if you find the season items too transparent for your liking, someone made a mod that makes them less transparent.

Just wanted to clarify: this mod actually enables you to adjust the transparency of the season bullets from 0% to 90%. To my knowledge this only works with thcrap, but it's worth it. 50% transparency is a lot less distracting, and having switched from Aya/Spring to Aya/Summer (and wow what a difference going with summer makes, for dealing with tight spots that used to be a choice between clipdeath or deathbombing), things have markedly improved.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

What's the reason for Matara to chase the protagonists out after stage 6 ?