Author Topic: Fire Emblem: Shadows of Valentia - Echos - The Fire Emblem we waited for!  (Read 22192 times)

I
Spoiler:
Honestly, if you wish to try it, I would encourage playing on Hard. It's not punishing (yet. I'm on Chapter 2) and has been more satisfying to play from my experience. This coming from someone who usually retreats to Normal after the first couple maps in other FE games.
Spoiler:
There is a big spike in difficulty at the start of chapter 4 from what I can tell, not sure if the usual hard mode= more EXP helps counter that or not.

(celica's signature weapon is the upgrade of what she starts with)
What is up with sidequests requiring you to give up some of the best gear?

Reddyne

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Spoiler:
There is a big spike in difficulty at the start of chapter 4 from what I can tell, not sure if the usual hard mode= more EXP helps counter that or not.

(celica's signature weapon is the upgrade of what she starts with)
What is up with sidequests requiring you to give up some of the best gear?
Spoiler:
I've backed myself into a corner with an FE game once before but don't plan to do it to myself again. So long as I can work towards taking the RNG out of survival, I should be fine. Good to know, though.

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BT

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Also there's some loose talk of more FE games being remade like this, coming from the higher-ups. I'm trying to find the GamExplain vid with the interview but it's not workan. :(
Gasp, does this mean we can talk about the Genealogy remake with some shred of evidence that there's actually plans for it now?

MewMewHeart

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Gasp, does this mean we can talk about the Genealogy remake with some shred of evidence that there's actually plans for it now?
SACRED STONES REMAKE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!!! I WILL PAY FOR IT!!!!

Also in other news...  starting to get use to the mechanics of the game, but I'm still sad no weapon triangle.
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Conqueror

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I assume you're talking about the interview mentioned here:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/18/15658120/fire-emblem-echoes-nintendo-3ds-remake-interview
Quote
Nintendo hasn?t announced any further remakes for the future ? but if Nakanishi had to pick, he knows what game he?d choose. ?Unfortunately his story has never been told,? he says of Roy, ?so it would be great if we could release a remake of his story.?


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Reddyne

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I looked the whole thing up again and after some digging wound up a bit disappointed but still hopeful. :V

Originally, one of the people at GameXplain (got it wrong the first time) stated that the developers may be working on more remakes. I tried to look up the video but couldn't find it. Pretty sure it was actually taken down due to the number of "video removed by user" messages I've gotten. Anyway, some sleuthing around for people's reaction to the whole thing led to a translated article from Dengeki magazine that came out around the Japanese release date about a month ago:
Quote
Q: What was your aim with the title Echoes?

Nakanishi: Well, when Gaiden came out, it was just Dark Dragon and the Blade of Light before it. Fast forward over ten releases later to modern day, and it can be confusing which Fire Emblem?s ?gaiden? this is! We wanted to emphasize its status as a spin off without using the word ?gaiden?, so started to think hard about it?

Translator?s Note: Gaiden is a Japanese word that basically means ?side story.? It is the word for ?sidequests? in FE7 and other FE games for instance. So you can see why this may cause confusion for the Japanese players.

Kusakihara: A lot of the recent Fire Emblem games all have extra maps called ?gaiden chapters,? so we feared players being left very confused. So Mr. Nakanishi specifically told us to avoid calling it New Gaiden.

Yamagami: Avoiding calling it New Gaiden is something we had in mind from the start of development. At the same time, we wanted a title that the rest of the world would also use, so wanted to settle on an English word. Somewhere in that conversation, the word ?echoes? surfaced. We imagined it was fitting as older games could now ?echo? to the modern players. We were very pleased with the choice, and, if there were to be more remakes in the future, we figured we could use the Echoes title again.
So the FE people are leaving open the option of making additional remakes under the "Echoes" banner. Simple and somewhat unexciting, but it leaves the door open for other remakes.

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Suwako Moriya

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FE6 Echoes Remake

Gimme Wade and Lot vs. The World in HD pls
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

commandercool

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What on earth does Teleport even do? The rules text says "Allow a unit to warp next to a target and move again". What target? An enemy target? Is there a range limit? Half the time it results in a witch teleporting half way across the map and one-shotting Valbar out of nowhere, but the other half of the time the witch doesn't even use it before just walking into combat and getting killed. I don't understand what this ability does, it's obviously very powerful when it works, and it's pretty common, so that's not great.

Meanwhile, snipers are ridiculous in this game. Leon is NOT a good unit, his stats are awful for his level (he either has abysmal growth rates or I've been very unlucky because he's never gotten bonuses on more than one stat) but he is by far the best unit so far in Celica's route. Tears enemy armies to pieces before they can get anywhere near him, especially on maps with lots of walls and especially especially on desert maps (of which where are a lot at a certain point). Between him and Genny being monstrously powerful I don't really ever feel threatened so far as Celica, witches that I don't understand the mechanics of aside.

Edit: Alright, so I've bumped into my first major complaint with the game. The respawning enemies that move around the map are garbage. I kind of understand the point of them, to keep you from dicking around and, to some extent, from focusing on one campaign for an extended period and ignoring the other. But they spawn constantly and they seem to be exactly the same every time. I've had to do that one with Alm where you defend the castle from the horsies three times now, and the third time it was mind-numbing. Making me do exactly the same thing over and over with no variation is not fun or interesting, at least not this closely spaced.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 12:33:20 AM by commandercool »
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MewMewHeart

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What on earth does Teleport even do? The rules text says "Allow a unit to warp next to a target and move again". What target? An enemy target? Is there a range limit? Half the time it results in a witch teleporting half way across the map and one-shotting Valbar out of nowhere, but the other half of the time the witch doesn't even use it before just walking into combat and getting killed. I don't understand what this ability does, it's obviously very powerful when it works, and it's pretty common, so that's not great.

Meanwhile, snipers are ridiculous in this game. Leon is NOT a good unit, his stats are awful for his level (he either has abysmal growth rates or I've been very unlucky because he's never gotten bonuses on more than one stat) but he is by far the best unit so far in Celica's route. Tears enemy armies to pieces before they can get anywhere near him, especially on maps with lots of walls and especially especially on desert maps (of which where are a lot at a certain point). Between him and Genny being monstrously powerful I don't really ever feel threatened so far as Celica, witches that I don't understand the mechanics of aside.

Edit: Alright, so I've bumped into my first major complaint with the game. The respawning enemies that move around the map are garbage. I kind of understand the point of them, to keep you from dicking around and, to some extent, from focusing on one campaign for an extended period and ignoring the other. But they spawn constantly and they seem to be exactly the same every time. I've had to do that one with Alm where you defend the castle from the horsies three times now, and the third time it was mind-numbing. Making me do exactly the same thing over and over with no variation is not fun or interesting, at least not this closely spaced.
I got Warp for Silque, but yeah I agree with you on the spawning enemies I mean like fuck... bruh especially on Alm's side due to I KEEP RUNNING INTO THAT SAME ENEMY PALADIN WITH IT'S BLOODY ANNOYING MAP OF ENEMY UNITS ABLE TO OUT SPEED EVEN SOME OF MY FASTER UNITS!!!!  Also... it might be you having bad luck with Leon he keeps killing things for me fast although I did let him have some of the sacred springs to help boost.

Spoiler:
Can I just say Berkut has one of the best themes like it sends chills especially the chorus!
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Suwako Moriya

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What on earth does Teleport even do? The rules text says "Allow a unit to warp next to a target and move again". What target? An enemy target? Is there a range limit? Half the time it results in a witch teleporting half way across the map and one-shotting Valbar out of nowhere, but the other half of the time the witch doesn't even use it before just walking into combat and getting killed.

If you though Teleport was infuriating now, just wait for the Sluice Gate mission!
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Reddyne

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My first death in hard mode goes to Kamui and his dubious AI choice to pick a fight at half health with the local pirate boss. :toot: CONGRATULATIONS :toot:

The game's mountain of DLC is starting to trickle in and that includes the free villager's (pitch)fork, an item that allows a character to class change into the versatile innocent doeflake class. Yes, even you can give Clair some real-world experience with cows, pigs, and getting covered in manure! Not fully sure how this is implemented but strongly thinking of getting a cavalier and/or archer for the bunch considering that Celica's team consists of a lot of mercs and mages but I dunno.

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If you though Teleport was infuriating now, just wait for the Sluice Gate mission!
pah wait for

Spoiler:
the mission with the boss who spawns witches

commandercool

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I'm really torn on this game so far. I like a lot of stuff about it. I like how items work, the production value, the cast, the examination segments where you can look around  to find hidden items, and kiiind of the map design since it's a change of pace at least (although ultimately probably inferior to many of the other games in the franchise). But I'm starting to get really worn down by how grindy it is. The respawning overworld enemies, respawning enemies in dungeons that you'll often have to navigate many times, and the summoner enemies who turn every map they appear on into an endless grind wading through dozens and dozens of zombies...

Fire Emblem games are about decisions mattering, and I feel like nothing I do matters in this game. It's very easy (so far) even on hard so my tactical decisions don't feel like they matter, I don't have to be careful with who I level up because enemies respawn infinitely everywhere I look, the time rewinding mechanic means mistakes don't matter to a pretty generous extent,
Spoiler:
apparently you can resurrect dead characters so the permadeath doesn't matter...
. I don't know, I'll wait to pass judgement, but I started off very positive and am increasingly finding myself frustrated by how repetitive and hand-holdy Echoes is.
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MewMewHeart

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@commandercool To be honest... THE TURNWHEEL HAS BEEN so helpful for me to the point I can fix my mistake I don't mind that, but the endless spawning enemies on the map I want to smack the asshole who thought it was a good idea I mean can I go to the nearest village or story progression spot without being stopped.
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commandercool

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In a vacuum I don't mind the turnwheel at all, but in practice I have two problems with it:

-It exists in a game where you're already at an enormous advantage and it just makes things even breezier.

-Using it to rewind anything that happens during an enemy turn usually requires you to rewind and rewatch a ton of stuff, which can be tedious, especially if you have to do it multiple times.

One of the biggest valid complaints that people have with Fire Emblem is that it's entirely possible to have a run where you make all of the right decisions end because of bad RNG. So a limited way to mitigate RNG is not a bad idea at all in Fire Emblem. If you make very poor choices you're still going to lose, but it prevents you from getting fucked by a 1% critical hit that you had no reason to need to prepare for. I would like it a lot better if you could use it less often (once a battle or maaaybe twice would feel more palatable) and if you could use it mid-turn to rewind the last action without having to wait for the turn to end.

So just to be clear, it CAN be used to reroll any hit or critical roll, right? I swear I've used it to get more favorable results both offensively and defensively, but I had a battle earlier where I missed a gargoyle, no shit, six times in a row with an 89% hit chance and it made me question whether it actually rerolls the RNG in all situations (or if gargoyles have some kind of secret, unlisted ability that makes them impossible to hit with arrows).
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

you need to change a variable to get a different result like changing the order you move your units. otherwise you will just keep getting the same results again and again.

commandercool

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How does that work with enemy turns then? If I rewind an enemy turn partially to try to avoid a random critical hit that happened five moves from the end it seems like I successfully avoided the outcome I didn't want, but I couldn't change any variables because the rewind couldn't even reach far enough to get to the point where I could make moves. Am I misremembering what happened, or does it work differently with enemies?
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

BT

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  • People say that I should
Here's a topical case study. (Rewinding to the start of enemy phase.)

You can see that the enemy RNG changes, but the ally unit RNG doesn't; the crit stayed the same and so did the level up.

MewMewHeart

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Here's a topical case study. (Rewinding to the start of enemy phase.)

You can see that the enemy RNG changes, but the ally unit RNG doesn't; the crit stayed the same and so did the level up.
I actually discovered that on my own merit, but then again this is quite an interesting thing to know.
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commandercool

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Weird. Inconsistency in game rules is generally not great, but it sort of makes sense why it would work that way. Prevents players from being obligated to constantly reroll for better level ups while keeping the mechanic functional on enemies.

So to answer my own question about how witches work, teleport seems to be all RNG. If you rewind a witch's turn repeatedly it will do a number of different things. Often it won't even teleport at all. So keep that in mind if a low-resist unit gets sniped I guess, and hope it didn't happen at the very beginning of the enemy turn.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MewMewHeart

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Weird. Inconsistency in game rules is generally not great, but it sort of makes sense why it would work that way. Prevents players from being obligated to constantly reroll for better level ups while keeping the mechanic functional on enemies.

So to answer my own question about how witches work, teleport seems to be all RNG. If you rewind a witch's turn repeatedly it will do a number of different things. Often it won't even teleport at all. So keep that in mind if a low-resist unit gets sniped I guess, and hope it didn't happen at the very beginning of the enemy turn.
I already got a taste of the witches... I think I might end up leaving a salty bitch after I'm done.
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theshirn

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I got ganked in a dungeon and two snipers shot one of my characters down.

I rewound all 11 uses and they still killed her every single turn with two 70% hits.

>:(

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson

Kilgamayan

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pah wait for

Spoiler:
the mission with the boss who spawns witches

Just got to this. The worst part was
Spoiler:
not the spawning witches - they were aggravating, but manageable, even with the RNG favoring teleportation and Clive turning into a Witch and Sniper magnet - but when the boss bucked the trend of all previous summoner bosses and actually went on the offensive herself. Immediate game over with her and a Baron baring down on Alm!
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

theshirn

  • THE LAWS OF THE FIESTA MEAN NOTHING
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    • Wisdom is Not a Dump Stat
Just got to this. The worst part was
Spoiler:
not the spawning witches - they were aggravating, but manageable, even with the RNG favoring teleportation and Clive turning into a Witch and Sniper magnet - but when the boss bucked the trend of all previous summoner bosses and actually went on the offensive herself. Immediate game over with her and a Baron baring down on Alm!
oh hey this exact thing happened to me earlier today

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson

Reddyne

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OH MY GOSH the desert stage with Wolff and his merry band of arrow spam is so annoying not necessarily because of difficulty but because of how painfully slow the sand makes it. I clumsily slapped together some invoke spam trappings and it took like two dozen turns just to set up ugh. If there were any more cheese involved the Cabot people would have to buy the Green Bay Packers in Brie, France.

Also, for anyone who's further along than I am (maybe a third of the way through chapter 3?), do you have any recommendations about when to change classes? My parties are both around level 11-12 and they seem to be hitting an experience wall. I haven't promoted anyone past villager. My gut instinct is always to ride this out to the bitter end, but I'd rather not reach a point where I'm grinding more than I have to.

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commandercool

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I promoted everyone almost ASAP (occasionally I waited a bit because a shrine was too far away and I'd have to wade through too much respawning shitspam to get there and back and this game is trying my patience enough as it is) and it hasn't been a problem yet, although who knows if that's going to bite me in the ass later.

I'm a 2-3 fights into chapter four with both campaigns on hard and have yet to run into anything that I would really consider "difficult", but if I did this wrong then my guys will start to level cap before I reach the endgame and I'll be underleveled for the last few chapters. The game seems so forgiving so far though that even if I horribly fucked up my character growths I still wouldn't expect it to make anything impossible.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

commandercool

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Well fuck, am I the only one who didn't realize you can drink from the springs multiple times? I have wasted a lot of stat ups I think, and this game makes backtracking waaay to tedious for me to want to go back for them. So learn from my mistake if you didn't already know this, keep drinking from springs until the game explicitly tells you they've run dry.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Well fuck, am I the only one who didn't realize you can drink from the springs multiple times? I have wasted a lot of stat ups I think, and this game makes backtracking waaay to tedious for me to want to go back for them. So learn from my mistake if you didn't already know this, keep drinking from springs until the game explicitly tells you they've run dry.
wait really? now i just feel like making a new game lul

commandercool

  • alter cool
I mean, I found one that I could use three times and that just made me assume the others were like that. Maybe this one was special. Definitely keep an eye out at least.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

I mean, I found one that I could use three times and that just made me assume the others were like that. Maybe this one was special. Definitely keep an eye out at least.
3 times between the pair of them at Mila shrines, others seem to be two times.