Topic: Gensokyo's technological cultures?  (Read 1436 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Lt Colonel Summers

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • Do not mess with a soldier
  • Nickname: LT
  • Gender: Male
Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« on: May 17, 2017, 03:38:52 pm »
Gensokyo is supposed to be a medieval Japanese society, yet there are so many anachronisms even in scenes where the Kappa, Tengu and Moriya Shrine are not involved.
Let's start with what we know:

[Don't remember source] Akyuu is stated to like FM Synth Music. But...where is she getting FM Synth Music? How does she even know the stuff exist?

[Three Fairies] Reimu and Marisa stumbles upon a radio tower. Anachronism is averted as they have no idea what it is. But then played straight when Marisa imagines climbing to the top of it and shouting through a (clearly modern and electronic) megaphone upon being told it is a means to communicate; and Reimu, believing it to be a weapon, imagines something along the lines of an Inter-continental Ballistic Missile. How the heck did they know about electronic megaphones and ICBMs???

[Three Fairies] The Three Fairies gets inside Alice's house. One page consist entirely of a single page-sized panel of Alice controlling the dolls to make tea. Now, Alice being European, all the medieval/renaissance(?)-era European silverwares and stuff are acceptable...but not a very obviously modern carton of milk (that even has a barcode on it) being handled by one of the dolls. Where did Alice get that modern milk carton? No way it came from the Outside World...

[WaHH] Reimu has had major events at the Hakurei Shrine. She advertises all of them...using flyers that have blatantly modern designs. One chapter at least justifies it by having Nitori and her Kappa mob backing the event. But not the ones without the Kappa. Where is she getting those modern-style flyers?

[PoDD] Reimu references Doraemon (then-most famous pop culture of Asia), knows what an android is, ponders if Ruukoto ran on batteries (not knowing that Ruukoto is nuclear). Kotohime recognizes all the quantum-physics-powered tech on Yumemi's Probability Hyperspace Vessel, and recites the Periodic Table as one of her victory quotes. Where do those knowledge come from???

[LLS] One ending has Reimu and Marisa discuss about the troll logic of seeing something fancy in the clouds granting free services at the Laundromat. Granted, Laundromats are outdated by around 2005, but not in the 1990s when LLS was released. Gensokyo has Laundromat services???

So its safe to say that ZUN (and by extension Hirasaka Makoto and Azuma Aya too) is extremely inconsistent about Gensokyo's technological cultures.
Your opinions on the matter?
There's nothing inscribed on the dog tag...
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 04:57:49 pm »
[Don't remember source] Akyuu is stated to like FM Synth Music. But...where is she getting FM Synth Music? How does she even know the stuff exist?

Uh huh. Except she's supposedly playing it with a gramophone.

Well, she does own one in her household, but the whole FM Synth deal is just a joke about how she's drawn on PC-98 music albums.

[Three Fairies] Reimu and Marisa stumbles upon a radio tower. Anachronism is averted as they have no idea what it is. But then played straight when Marisa imagines climbing to the top of it and shouting through a (clearly modern and electronic) megaphone upon being told it is a means to communicate; and Reimu, believing it to be a weapon, imagines something along the lines of an Inter-continental Ballistic Missile. How the heck did they know about electronic megaphones and ICBMs???

Magazines from outside world. Those canonically appear on a regular basis. They might have seen one at Kourin's.

[Three Fairies] The Three Fairies gets inside Alice's house. One page consist entirely of a single page-sized panel of Alice controlling the dolls to make tea. Now, Alice being European, all the medieval/renaissance(?)-era European silverwares and stuff are acceptable...but not a very obviously modern carton of milk (that even has a barcode on it) being handled by one of the dolls. Where did Alice get that modern milk carton? No way it came from the Outside World...

Why not? Yukari's open on small gifts for small favors.

Most likely the artist was just sloppy (or rather, too thorough).

[WaHH] Reimu has had major events at the Hakurei Shrine. She advertises all of them...using flyers that have blatantly modern designs. One chapter at least justifies it by having Nitori and her Kappa mob backing the event. But not the ones without the Kappa. Where is she getting those modern-style flyers?

Again, some of those most likely dropped in eventually, so hers were modeled after them. There ARE non-Kappa prints out there, you know.

[PoDD]
...
[LLS]

* CyberAngel shoots a death glare.

Not even gonna bother.

Camilo113

  • Luck, Resilience and Perseverance
  • Gensokyo is capable of change
  • Nickname: Sukima
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 05:24:08 pm »
Not even gonna bother.
You should not have bothered with the whole thing.

martelefort

  • Nickname: Kyusen
  • Gender: male
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 06:04:38 pm »
Stuff of the outside world come into Gensokyo. There is a lot of knowledge about the outside worlds such as books, magazines mostly in Kosuzu's or Rinnosuke's place, there is even people who come from the outside world and so they could talk about that.

And even if all of that is not enough, those people are in a place where everything is possible, magic and sorcery is something a lot of people can do, everybody can fly, etc, so creating magically a carton of milk out of a reproduction from a magazine doesn't seem difficult to me.

It's like seeing the Momiji's ears or Aya's wings question : just, magic. Seems like a good answer to me.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Amaterasu
  • Gender: Androgyne
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 06:28:52 pm »
Yeah, there's a number of characters who have, or who regularly do, cross the border. It's unlikely they wouldn't bring anything back with them, whether particular objects or the knowledge of said objects and the concepts behind them. Sanae was a relatively recent addition, but now she's a permanent resident; just imagine how many outside-world concepts she alone has made Gensokyans familiar with. So the question kinda answers itself, really.

Fan Fiction
 Tumblr
"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Suspicious person

  • Just a humble wanderer
  • How suspicious~
  • Nickname: Fishy dude
  • Gender: Suspicious
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 08:11:33 pm »
The thing about anachronism between the medieval setting and the modern setting would be valid if Gensokyo and the Outside World were completely isolated and had no kind of contact whatsoever with the other, which isn't the case : Gensokyans have some awareness of the OW and some knowledge (albeit limited) of how things go around there, and that awareness is further bolstered by either the characters who have legit contact and proper knowledge of the OW or the various reference books from there : that's usually where the seemingly out of place OW knowledge is from ; and when it comes to "getting stuff from the OW", there has always been the "I have my own route" or Kourindou answer that pop up now and then. So yeah, pretty much covered above already. The barrier only keep the OW's common sense away from Gensokyo and allow forgotten stuff or anything that is dismissed as fantasy to be in Gensokyo. But outside of the fantasy part, Gensokyo and the OW are very similar : there are trees, plants, animals and people. It's not like anything that is in the OW cannot absolutely be in Gensokyo, and that applies to knowledge and culture too.

Also PC-98 canon relevance is a massive conspiracy from evil giant corporations who only wish the worst for you and want to bleed your wallets out and keep your attention away from the truths of the universe. Don't buy into it. It's a hoax. It shouldn't be a thing anymore. Let it die out.

magic
Templates like that are forbidden.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 08:17:49 pm by Suspicious person »

martelefort

  • Nickname: Kyusen
  • Gender: male
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 08:26:38 pm »
Forgot about this one, mah bad

Hello Purvis

  • Acolyte
  • *
  • Hello Jerry
  • Staff
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Purvis
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 08:57:44 pm »
When was Gensokyo a Medieval setting?

(Setting aside the silliness of applying a western historical descriptor to a place that didn't have western history).

The barrier went up in the later 1800s, well after Japan made contact with the west and was on its way to modernizing. Not only that, shit like firearms would have been around for hundreds of years from prior western contact. There's all kinds of room for small modern-ish things to exist.

Imperishable_NEET

  • Neophyte
  • Nickname: 1996RJClarke
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2017, 11:45:14 pm »
Modern tech does exist in Gensokyo, it's just rare and sporadic, kind of like undeveloped rural backwaters today with cell phone towers but no power grid or indoor plumbing.

Kappa Valley obviously has modern/futuristic tech they share with neighboring tengu (Aya's camera), the Lunarian kingdom has ancient-aliens magitek, (as does Former Hell), Scarlet Devil Manor has at least Renaissance-era tech, and Rinnouske's shop pawns off whatever lost travelers drop wandering around.

Modern transportation like cars or the road infrastructure they require are pointless when everybody can fly super fast from one end of Gensokyo to the other. Hospitals are also largely unnecessary when magic cure-all medicines exist.

I remember in one of the Harry Potter books I grew up reading, a wizard described firearms as "A kind of metal wand muggles use to kill each other." Most Gensokyans' awareness of modern tech I would imagine to pretty much be that. Kappa, Yukari, Rinnousuke and Sanae would be your go-to people for outside world tech knowledge.

Multilobe

  • Neophyte
  • Nickname: Ebo
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2017, 09:21:27 pm »
I have an odd theory about the Touhou universe and the OW. I think it's all just a simulation, but it is real to those who inhabit it.

There is no way to know if we're all in a simulation right now, but I'm confident that 99.9 of us will say it is real to us and our lives have meaning, even if we are all simulated beings in a simulated universe.

To me, all the worlds in the Touhou universe are simulated, and Yukari Yakumo is the Roko's Basilisk (or the main servant of the Basilisk) of Gensokyo. This may take some explaining: In the not-too-distant future, humans will reach a technological singularity in which our technology changes our culture at such a high rate that the human mind cannot keep up with it all. Almost all of it will appear to be magic to our limited human brains. This will result in the creation of artificially intelligent gods. Perhaps Yukari Yakumo is one of them, and Gensokyo is her simulation. Wanna get into Gensokyo? It's best if you don't know a lot about computer programming, computers, the internet, AI, and technology - because if you do you're not gonna have much belief and faith in a world that was intentionally designed to run on faith and magic.

Pergold

  • Gender: Male
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2017, 12:36:43 am »
Maybe Touhou runs on Civilization logic and their tech tree has been researched more sporadically.

(Just a fun guess)

Hieda no Mukyu

  • Eastern philology in limbo
  • Nickname: Norejji Tsubaki
Re: Gensokyo's technological cultures?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2017, 10:02:24 pm »
So the question kinda answers itself, really.

While that is true, this is another one of Summers’s threads I have really enjoyed reading; special thanks go to Cyber Angel, Suspicious person and Imperishable NEET.

My futile hope is that some people could still use this topic to list more “anachronisms” and discuss their “backstories”. Not to mention classifying fan works based on what types and levels of anachronism their versions of Gensōkyō represent...
 

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Theme based on ModernDark64 design by BlocWeb
Page created in 0.076 seconds with 40 queries.