弹幕音乐绘 ～风雷幻奏曲～(Barrage Musical ～A Fantasy of Tempest～)(Ultra Mode Added)

[rsy_type1]

Welcome to special round!


Here is ??

[BlueDigitalDragon]

I finally beat Ultra, holy hell the resource management I needed for that and memorizing all the patterns and times to bomb. Frenio and the Mysterious Figure have updated and much more intense final spells. So many times losing to the final spell in its last section because its completely different. I also used so much auto-dodge time >_>

Managed to get all the achievements too! Now to wait until they bust out a sequel! I'd love to see a minimal bomb run or minimal auto-dodge time run for it, I don't believe anyone has put up an ultra run on youtube too.

[williewillus]

I found what appears to be an ultra score run on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZWDG7W67kI
as expected, it's mostly spamming bombs, but there was considerable dodging chops too (timing when to finish attacks to skip hard parts, safespots, all that business)

[Despatche]

Was planning on bumping this myself.

Really cool game, most fun I've had with a touhoulike in a long while. I'm not a giant fan of the shot types given, but I almost never am in a touhoulike. Type B is fun enough, but I hate Misty's choice of bomb for it.

So this ultra difficulty isn't like len'en's absurdly extra or the typical touhou ultra patches. While it's insanely hard, it's a legitimate difficulty. It's not just "add more bullets and increase the speed", several patterns have brand new features or segments, some totally reworked altogether. Just thought that was worth pointing out.

Make fun of Tasouken and Reiretsuden ABEX, but leave Mugenri ABEX alone. That stage is legit, and is proof that ABEX was never meant to be a joke. JynX has said at least once that he made the later ABEXs as dumb as they are because playtesters asked, and Flash Bombs allowed him to get away with a lot that he couldn't have gotten away with in Mugenri. It should be noted that those three games got the v1.1 rebalances which take some of the edge off of ABEX, but they make the entire rest of the game jank as a consequence.

ABEX is only called an "intentional joke difficulty" because people obsess over the "advertising"; words like "Absurdly" and the descriptions telling you that you aren't human if you can play this. No, really, that is the exact excuse I am always given when I ask. Problem is, every Touhou Lunatic/Extra and this game's Ultra do that too.

At some point, people need to realize that the bar is really low for touhoulikes, and most programmers are just throwing whatever on a wall and hoping it sticks. There are very few programmers that are so deeply concerned with putting an actually great game together. It looks like things are getting better, until someone like JynX decides to drop a near-joke game like Teneisenki that becomes beloved for all the wrong reasons. I really hate saying that, because developing that game almost killed him, but it is what it is. I'm still upset about Arcade Mode, damn it.

The topic of this thread is a little spotty with certain patterns, but the developer clearly tried really hard to put together something great (despite their protestations), and it shows. Games like this need to be studied intensely. But games like Mugenri and co. also need to be studied intensely, because there are tons of ideas in these "half-baked" games that could be put to better use.

[TresserT]

Snip.

You completely missed the point of my post. Regardless of whether len'en ABEX or touhou ultra patches are meant to be taken seriously or not, they're still just "same pattern with more or faster bullets". My whole point was, in this game, that's not the case. Here the difference between Lunatic and Ultra is like the difference between Normal and Hard in typical touhou games. A lot of patterns have brand new additional layers to them, some are even completely different in concept.

I'm not making fun of anything. I wasn't trying to imply that this is, like, easier than ABEX either; this is still really freaking hard if you don't abuse autododge.

[Despatche]

Funny, I can just as easily say you completely missed the point of mine. Red flag: odd comment suggesting that I might be trying to defend Lenen's difficulty "honor" or whatever.

I'm just gonna come out and say it: if you think "adding more bullets and increasing the speed" is something like pointlessly raising the health of an enemy in an RPG, you're very wrong. "adding more bullets and increasing the speed" (and especially, increasing the rate at which enemies fire) usually completely change how the pattern works, unless you're like 14 and none of your patterns even move across the screen properly.

Normal to Hard is not the design jump you think it is. You may want to go replay some Touhou. The design jump is usually incredibly minor, is not limited to Normal to Hard, and does not necessarily apply when a card's name is changed. This game's Ultra actually is a design jump because it was made after the fact for that express purpose, and there are even multiple points in the existing difficulties that actually are design jumps.

[CrestedPeak9]

Oh boy. You come back and instantly start arguing with people about Jo'on and then this.

I'd love to see you justify AbEx Prime Minister in Black Robes which is quite literally impossible.

JynX absolutely did not just get away with bullshit impossible patterns in the later games just because of flashbombs. EMS is an excellent example of this.

Not to mention he had no issue with trying to wall you in EE AbEx's second survival spell.

And if you really think making bullets go faster changes the whole pattern, you clearly haven't attempted to make your own patterns.

That doesn't excuse the incredibly dumb patterns in this game's Ultra that basically require the use of autododge.

[TresserT]

Snip 2 electric boogaloo

I don't know what you're trying to prove here. I didn't say increasing bullet density or speed were pointless. But you dodge "Kuzuki Clear Water" the same way you dodge "Yamato Torus". In contrast, look at the differences between "Kuzuki Clear Water" and "Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual". They're very different patterns. If you want something more subtle, you can compare "Storm on Mt. Ooe (Normal)", "Wind Blowing Down from Mt. Ooe (Hard)", and "Wind Blowing Down from Mt. Ooe (Lunatic)". From Normal to Hard completely changes how the pattern works, whereas from Hard to Lunatic does not.

I know this isn't exclusive to Normal/Hard. There are often spells that change from Hard to Lunatic too. But that's kind of beside the point, as I was just using it as an example to describe the difference between this game's Lunatic and Ultra. Since these changes most commonly occur between Normal and Hard I feel like most people would understand what I'm saying.

I said this because touhou has "Ultra Mode" too in the form of fan patches, which Len'en ABEX is comparable to. However, touhou Ultra Mode (and Len'en ABEX) are just more and faster bullets. Whereas this game's Ultra completely changes the way several patterns work. They add new bullet types that weren't there before, or change the way the bullets spawn. A perfect example being the final spell in the game. The difference between this game's Lunatic and Ultra is closer to the difference between "Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual" vs "Kuzuki Clear Water" than the difference between "Kuzuki Clear Water" vs "Yamato Torus" that most Ultras resemble.

Secondly, I didn't say anything about you defending len'ens honor or anything like that. I quoted you; you said, "Make fun of Tasouken and Reiretsuden ABEX, but leave Mugenri ABEX alone. That stage is legit, and is proof that ABEX was never meant to be a joke", and I responded by saying "I'm not making fun of Len'en ABEX. Whether it's a joke or not has nothing to do with what I'm talking about."

So really, I'm not sure what you're going on about at this point.

[Despatche]

Yeah, no. You made all these weird claims and are now trying to say you didn't. You also don't seem to have a whole lot of knowledge on difficulty differences, and you keep trying to say totally different things are the same and basically identical things are completely different. I can't even begin to explain this, sorry.

Oh boy. You come back and instantly start arguing with people about Jo'on and then this.

I'd love to see you justify AbEx Prime Minister in Black Robes which is quite literally impossible.

JynX absolutely did not just get away with bullshit impossible patterns in the later games just because of flashbombs. EMS is an excellent example of this.

Not to mention he had no issue with trying to wall you in EE AbEx's second survival spell.

And if you really think making bullets go faster changes the whole pattern, you clearly haven't attempted to make your own patterns.

That doesn't excuse the incredibly dumb patterns in this game's Ultra that basically require the use of autododge.

Goodness, just who are you? You wanna accuse me of being argumentative or contrarian or whatever yet you insist on posting blatantly false information. If you're trying to troll or whatever, you're not doing a very good job.

I'm just gonna ignore that jab about a post you did not read in a conversation you were not part of; it wasn't about some Touhou character, that's all I can tell you. I literally just said EMS and RMI were bullshit, because they are. Yes he did, and EMS is an excellent example of why. I don't think you know what a wall is, that they're very common in this genre, and that they're not unfair unless there's no way to circumvent them (walls are player-caused); no, I don't care about your personal definition of "unfair", because it's wrong. I'm just gonna say the same right back. I'm also just gonna laugh at your futile attempt to criticize Barrage Musical.

I genuinely don't think you actually play these games and you're just making stuff up wholesale. People tell me I do this, which is weird because if I'm not reading something about these games, I'm playing them or doing schoolwork or something. But now I'm starting to understand what they mean, because I'm seeing it in you. It is stunning, and it is scary, and I apologize to anyone I've misled over the years. Not much of an apology, but none of them are ever gonna read this post anyway.

[☆ Kana ☆]

Dude, just stop. All you're really achieving at this point is annoying the crap out of people. There's literally no need to go after people for expressing opinions that harm nobody, and you're creating drama that could have easily been avoided.

[TresserT]

I don't know what "weird claims" I made.
1) Several patterns completely change between normal and hard, such as "Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual" or "Storm on Mt. Ooe". Pretty sure this is true.
2) This typically doesn't happen when going from Lunaic to Ultra or from Extra to ABEX. While you could argue this, as increasing speed and density can change how a pattern works, you never see something as major as "Misayama" to "Yamato Torus". Am I wrong? If so, can you give me an example of a spell that changes as drastically between Ex and ABEX?
3) This game's Ultra patch DOES completely change several patterns, such as the final boss's final spell. If you're going to argue that they're identical than all I can say is lol. Of course, by final boss know I'm referring to the mysterious figure.
4) I never said anything about you defending len'ens honor. I just said that len'en ABEX adds more bullets or increases speed and doesn't change patterns a la "Misayama" to "Kuzuki Clear Water". Can you point out exactly where I called you out on defending len'en?

You made all these weird claims and are now trying to say you didn't. You also don't seem to have a whole lot of knowledge on difficulty differences, and you keep trying to say totally different things are the same and basically identical things are completely different. I can't even begin to explain this, sorry.

What I read here was "I'm wrong, I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it and don't know how to defend myself, so I'm going to say 'ur dum' and not going to elaborate."

If I made a "weird claim" or I "said something and then tried to say I didn't", please quote exactly what I said that was wild or contradictory. Because I'm pretty sure you are just being argumentative and contrarian, but I also know that my words tend to be misinterpreted often, and if my words didn't come out the way I meant them I'll quickly say "oh sorry, I didn't mean it like that, what I meant was..."

[williewillus]

...anyways, just found this video from way back when this thing just started development. It's basically a "danmaku light show with music", likely to test the music+bullet syncing systems.

It is super pretty though, and I'd love to see more people try to push the envelope on the "danmaku+music as an art form" front. It would be cool if there was a "lightshow mode" of games unlockable after defeat where you just listen to the music and watch the bullets. I guess using the autododge in Barrage Musical already does that, to some extent.

Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av3142769/