Topic: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]  (Read 11650 times)

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Nook

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2017, 07:28:50 pm »
It's over.

Without a doubt the best work ZUN's ever made, and Harukawa's illustrations made it all the better. Sad to see it go.

Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2017, 09:46:39 pm »
From a comment I read on Clarste's Tumblr, apparently, it's sad.
So, that confirms ONE thing: whatever happens with Reimu&Yukari and Mamizou&Possessed Kosuzu is NOT status quo that's for sure. The series ending gave it away. So, we'll only have that... sub group translating the last chapter for us one last time (only for Drake to correct all their mistakes) and we can rest easy as Clarste will "probably" (emphasis on "probably") pick up whatever's next. And now, the fact that the manga's being brought to the west makes a whole more sense now.

the old guy

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2017, 10:13:59 pm »
Well then, that means that this entire manga was completely pointless.
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TrueShadow

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2017, 11:26:09 pm »
Well then, that means that this entire manga was completely pointless.
...then you're missing the point of the manga. It's about portraying Gensokyo from the eyes of a (relatively) normal human. It could keep going on forever if ZUN wanted to. He just chose to end it now, for whatever reason.

BernkastelWitch

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2017, 11:35:16 pm »
Given how it's ending I do wonder which direction the ending will take us. Most likely not as dark as most people expect it but probably something that'd obviously not fix the status quo an extent. Just my guess.
Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #95 on: July 26, 2017, 12:17:57 am »
Please, people. This manga series isn't the kind to feature huge battles. Next chapter will probably be the epilogue, with the scroll destroyed but Kosuzu going on with her business. I mean, did you seriously hope for something big and game-changing? In an official Touhou manga? HAH!

Called it. Everybody owes me $5 now.
Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #96 on: July 26, 2017, 02:55:32 am »
<offtopic>
And most of the time, this is why I prefer fan TLs over official. Official TLs lack the subtleties of what fandom consider "correct" such as the spellings, the Japanese honorifics, etc. This is the main reason why I still haven't pre-ordered FS Vol.1: I'm just too scared of the translation.

But don't get me wrong: I like to encourage the artists as much as the next guy but I just can't buy something I'm most likely to be disappointed in.

</offtopic>
Localizations are supposed drop honorific and such because they are intended to translate things in ways foreigners can understand.  You'd probably be disappointed with Chinese localizations of Japanese media too, because they don't have honorific.

No offense, but you have a purist attitude going on there.
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TrueShadow

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #97 on: July 26, 2017, 03:55:42 am »
Localizations are supposed drop honorific and such because they are intended to translate things in ways foreigners can understand.  You'd probably be disappointed with Chinese localizations of Japanese media too, because they don't have honorific.

No offense, but you have a purist attitude going on there.
They're just different methods of translations, people can have their opinions which one they like or dislike.

Localization aims at making it understandable at as much people as possible, at the cost of risking losing accuracy and author intent. Direct translation (good ones anyway) aim to preserve context as much as possible, but may require audience to be familiar with those contexts in the first place.

For fan translations I generally prefer the latter. And honestly I'm a bit baffled that Touhou fan translation takes the former way, given how Japanese Touhou is.

Drake

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #98 on: July 26, 2017, 04:29:15 am »
http://www.personaproblems.com/

Recommended reading for anyone who wants to talk about translation methodology because, as I've mentioned in the past, fans often don't really know what they want in this regard. If people are quick to reject or approve of a translation on the basis of topics like honorifics, localized names, and other visibly obvious frills, while not being able to discern when one translation straight-up doesn't convey the ideas of the text or does convey the wrong ideas, they are not really talking about translation. The fact that many people will just accept some translations because they can't tell that they're bad, while simultaneously decrying good translations because their frills aren't the way they want, is a mild tragedy.

When you see people like me do something like "well the original text doesn't really imply that, it says bla, which means more something like bluh", that doesn't mean I'm advocating for a "more literal" translation, that means I'm saying that the translation does not quite convey the correct idea and might convey something else unintentionally. A literal translation in place of that is not a good solution, the solution is more appropriate wording to communicate the correct ideas instead.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 04:44:31 am by Drake »

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #99 on: July 26, 2017, 04:58:18 am »
They're just different methods of translations, people can have their opinions which one they like or dislike.

Localization aims at making it understandable at as much people as possible, at the cost of risking losing accuracy and author intent. Direct translation (good ones anyway) aim to preserve context as much as possible, but may require audience to be familiar with those contexts in the first place.

For fan translations I generally prefer the latter. And honestly I'm a bit baffled that Touhou fan translation takes the former way, given how Japanese Touhou is.
So I think no amount of Chinese translation can satisfy ignorant purists because of the way that language works when compared to English, official or fan translated.

If you read a Chinese translation of a Touhou manga, don't expect the names Reimu, Kosuzi, or Mamizou to show up.  Instead, you find Lin-Mong, Xiao-Ling, and Duan-Zhang respectively.  This is because those names are translated directly from Japanese.  You might say to yourself you'll read a fan translation instead, but nope, it's still Lin-Mong, Xiao-Ling, and Duan-Zhang.

Chinese is like Japanese in the way that words are compromised of different characters, each with their own meanings. As a result, Japanese names are translate word by word when brought over to Chinese.  Chinese does not work the same as English.

I know someone who because of his somewhat purist attitude has led to him not liking Chinese Touhou stuff solely because of the names being different, even after I explained to him the reason for these name changes.
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Lt Colonel Summers

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #100 on: July 26, 2017, 06:06:57 am »
Nice to see that there's a happy ending. But sad to see that FS has finally reached its conclusion. Hope that little Kosuzu gets at least slightly significant roles in the other mangas and future games.
Or maybe FS gets a sequel series ala the Three Fairies mangas.

To further game2011's statement...
The Kanji for Reimu, Kosuzu and Mamizou are written in the exact same way in Traditional Chinese as well, as do several other 2hus whose names are written in Kanji.
Take for example: Marisa is written in both Japanese Kanji and Chinese Hanzi as "魔理沙". Same applies to all other 2hus whose names are written in Kanji.
In fact, I could read Kanji despite knowing almost nothing about the Japanese language because most Kanji verbs and nouns, when translated to Chinese, are still written in the exact same way.
There are several exceptions, though.
One of several exceptions I could name is the Japanese word for "airport" (空港). But while "空港" makes no grammatical sense in Chinese (the Chinese word for "airport" is "机场"), anyone who understands Chinese can still tell that the word means airport, as 空港 is transliterated as "air port".
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MrNoobomnenie

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #101 on: July 26, 2017, 06:36:05 am »
Called it. Everybody owes me $5 now.
Yes, you was the only "smart person", and all others was a "complete idiots", because they had dared to believe, that ZUN can write an interesting and serious story. Congratulations, now you can be proud of yourself.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 07:09:50 am by MrNoobomnenie »
Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #102 on: July 26, 2017, 07:25:24 am »
Yes, you was the only "smart person", and all others was a "complete idiots", because they had dared to believe, that ZUN can write an interesting and serious story. Congratulations, now you can be proud of yourself.

His stories are interesting and serious enough. It's just that he has his own style. One that can be - surprise surprise - predicted to a degree if you understand it well enough. As opposed to building up some unreasonable expectations and being disappointed that official Touhou material doesn't live up to your self-entitled opinion of how it should be. Just learn to enjoy it for what it is.

the old guy

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #103 on: July 26, 2017, 07:47:39 am »
Can you please not be a jerk about it though?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 08:03:29 am by the old guy »
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MrNoobomnenie

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #104 on: July 26, 2017, 07:53:34 am »
One that can be - surprise surprise - predicted to a degree if you understand it well enough.
Oh yea, and this is a good reason for you to laugh at everyone, who have expected something different.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 08:04:17 am by MrNoobomnenie »

Sophilia

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #105 on: July 27, 2017, 01:30:24 am »
Called it. Everybody owes me $5 now.
I dispute this charge on two grounds.
1) The scroll still exists.
2)
It's about portraying Gensokyo from the eyes of a (relatively) normal human.
Neither of these qualifiers apply anymore, which is why the series had to end when it did.  And that's still kind of a big deal!
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #106 on: July 27, 2017, 06:21:14 am »
I dispute this charge on two grounds.
1) The scroll still exists.
2) Neither of these qualifiers apply anymore, which is why the series had to end when it did.  And that's still kind of a big deal!

If I'd been 100% spot-on I'd demand $10 instead.

andykhang

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #107 on: July 27, 2017, 01:05:20 pm »
Yeah, also expect that thing would just end the way it is. Firstly, Yukari of all people involved in this shit.

Clarste

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #108 on: August 05, 2017, 09:07:55 pm »
And honestly I'm a bit baffled that Touhou fan translation takes the former way, given how Japanese Touhou is.

I think this is due to the earliest translations being done by people who weren't translators at all. They were just shmup fans, and not part of the greater fan translation community.

Nook

  • Nickname: cs
Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2017, 09:00:09 pm »

I'm glad we only got two chapters of this. Hopefully the official translation is better.

Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2017, 10:44:52 pm »
I've been left with a bitter feeling after reading the end.

So, this whole get up was, in fact, top stop Kosuzu's youkai transformation; as it was, apparently, a matter of time before it happened. So, everything Yukari said in the previous chapter, about protecting Kosuzu from Reimu, was true. Yukari just brought Kosuzu into her plan to protect her without providing the details. So that, by the end, the scroll that would lead her astray and a VERY demoralized Reimu, was used to just counter it.

But, now that she's closer to Reimu and co. and that "she wishes to be able to fight like them", we may very well see Kosuzu as a spell card user in the future. If Marisa, born a simple ability-less human, be able to learn magic and go that far, Kosuzu might as well go that far too.

I still hate Zun's status quo stance.
Also, and dat story gap. Game incoming?

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BernkastelWitch

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #111 on: August 11, 2017, 04:08:44 am »
Part of me does hope these events will be referenced in another manga or game while another part of me believes it'd probably be swept under the rug minus a few dialogue regarding it.

Regardless I had a fun read and would reread all of FS. I liked being around all this time to read it in its entirety and was enjoyable.

the old guy

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #112 on: August 11, 2017, 04:43:11 am »
I highly doubt ZUN will do anything with the implication that Kosuzu is trying to fly honestly. There have been a lot of things in Touhou that seem like they'll be important in the eyes of the fanbase, but then aren't.

I don't think this will be an exception sadly.
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2017, 06:25:30 am »
ZUN never directly explained how/why Kosuzu developed her "reading" powers, right? It's simply implied to be a side-effect of all the Youma books and/or the Night Parade Scroll.
The development of her ability has been cool to see, going from reading text to reading people. Reminds me of Reimu's ability to float leading to her floating outside reality.
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