Topic: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]  (Read 11807 times)

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andykhang

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2017, 05:09:39 am »
I can see how the scroll could be related to Suika. Remember that some of her titles are also about being the "night parade of one hundted demons"? And that thing is a oni with some kind of gathering ability, other traits Suika shares.  Weird.I wonder if it's because of her urban legend, the Gap Woman? She should be able to actually teleport without gaps, right?

Oh yeah, she does being called that. Guess someone managed to replicate, or even trapped a bit of Suika's power back then, into the scroll. The alternative would be that Yukari made it, but then that wouldn't explain why does she want to destroy it now, or even want to used it in the first place.

Also, I don't think they're on the Outside. The roof are too new for a shrine that's supposively being abandone for more than a century. I guess they're in some other part of the shrine (though that kinda make her gapping a bit unnessesary)

Drake

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2017, 05:23:43 am »
It also reinforces what was said by Mamizou and Reimu earlier, that Yukari and Kosuzu were hiding in the Outside.  So Reimu and Yukari are on the Outside shrine's roof, while the other two are on the shrine grounds in Gensokyo.
I don't think this is true? For someone who doesn't go to the Outside World herself, Reimu casually jumping over to the other side doesn't seem likely. Even just with ULiL they needed Kasen to properly admin-access their own way across. They're probably just in different spots on the shrine grounds.


I can see how the scroll could be related to Suika. Remember that some of her titles are also about being the "night parade of one hundted demons"? And that thing is a oni with some kind of gathering ability, other traits Suika shares.
百鬼夜行 is not an uncommon theme in japanese folklore, of which the 百鬼夜行絵巻 is one famous work. Meanwhile with Suika 百鬼夜行 is just referring to her ability to split up into hundreds, making it thematically relevant but not literally.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 05:42:08 am by Drake »

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Clarste

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2017, 01:07:58 pm »
For the record, Mamizou's full line there is それが百鬼夜行絵巻の鬼の力なんじゃな。 In case anyone wants to analyze exactly what she said.

Drake

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2017, 05:54:05 am »
hey guys look IT'S FUCKING NOTHING

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Lt Colonel Summers

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2017, 08:45:26 am »
hey guys look IT'S FUCKING NOTHING

Spoiler-less summary on what happened in chapter 52? Its not translated yet...
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Zelinko

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2017, 03:40:47 pm »
Spoiler-less summary on what happened in chapter 52? Its not translated yet...

No really that is the spoilerless summary of it.  It's filler.  No resolution at all.  Just wait till next month...
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Drake

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2017, 11:38:18 pm »
It isn't actually nothing, and not really filler either, but it isn't a direct continuation of what's immediately going on in the way everyone wanted to see.

That being said, since it's extremely unlikely that this plot will bleed over into another volume, it means everything is probably going to be handled in Chapter 53 to finish up Vol.7.
EDIT: That is, unless the events of this resolution end up sparking the entire next arc, which would definitely be new for FS in terms of narrative.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 12:26:49 am by Drake »

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Lt Colonel Summers

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #67 on: July 05, 2017, 08:17:52 am »
So now that Clarste has retired from translating FS, who's in charge of translating ch52?
I'm dying to see what is actually going on with it...
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Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #68 on: July 05, 2017, 06:40:37 pm »
So now that Clarste has retired from translating FS, who's in charge of translating ch52?
I'm dying to see what is actually going on with it...

Apparently, it's being worked on and that "we'll know soon enough who they are (subbing it)".
It's like I said, he should have at least finished the story line and/or wait for Yen Press officially confirm FS to the west.

We could wait for months unless somebody here with enough Japanese skill says "fudge it, I'm TL-ing".

the old guy

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2017, 03:34:27 am »
As i posted elsewhere:

We're back. This time the translation's from some buggers named "Etarnity Lurvers".

Please "enjoy" this weak filler chapter. Hopefully the next one will have shit ACTUALLY FUCKING HAPPEN.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 04:17:22 am by Kilgamayan »
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Drake

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2017, 05:31:01 am »
Content Warning: Complete anti-climatic filler that goes no where and completely fails on a fundamental storytelling level. Seriously ZUN? You can do better at this. You know somethings wrong when fucking fan fic writers are better at writing fight scenes than the creator of the series they're writing for. Weak.

Not at all. While "nothing happened", the fact that the huge buildup has been swiftly cut to this means something. I believe the atmosphere here to be somewhat a fault of the translation group since they missed several important establishing points in the chapter.

If anything it's people's expectations of having a big dramatic fight scene that is out of line with the series. You know this isn't a shounen battle manga. Maybe Mamizou will dish out some shit next chapter.



This translation is pretty awkward and stilted. Some more important notes:

- The title of the chapter omits that this is Part 1 of "Yukari Yakumo's Peace".

- The talk between Marisa and Sanae about "miracles" has no emphasis on the point whatsoever and overlaps the use of 不思議 with 奇跡 which confuses the whole thing. I don't think anyone involved got the point of this. This chapter continues from the previous VFiS chapter where the Fairies made all the trees magically bloom. Sanae mentions that she thought the trees were blooming late, which was pointed out in that chapter, and Marisa's response is "well you're right, but something mysterious happened", referring to the Fairies, and mirroring what she says at the end of that chapter. Sanae uses this to springboard and say causing mysterious (不思議) things is her job, upon which they actually comment on miracles (奇跡), and the page ends with Sanae says "speaking of mysterious (不思議) things, leading into the next page about the strange plans. "Speaking of miracles" makes no sense here and this whole context seems to have just been dropped entirely.

- Hanami*, *tn hanami means flower viewing? Really guys?

- "Previous flower viewings weren't this peaceful" -> "Flower viewing days usually aren't this quiet", i.e. usually they're more lively. Hence the solemn mood. This entire chapter is meant to evoke a sense of unease and framing it as "peace" misses out on that.

- "So you are assuming that she was kidnapped" -> "So you're treating this as though she was". Semi-important distinction; this is how they're handling the situation, but is not necessarily Akyu's personal assumption. This is why the next bit follows...

- "That fits with the rare occurrences of previous etc": This seems to imply the human village literally changed form somehow and gives the wrong impression. Following from the previous panel, "Ever since the current state of the Human Village, assuming that a youkai caused it matches the few serious events that have occurred", or something. She's saying it's common sense within the village to treat the case as though it was the doings of a youkai.

- Aya goes through the reasoning of "when considering a world without many requirements, that would be the outside world, wouldn't it" so obviously the conclusion she makes should be "outside world" and not just "another world". She does only say "spirited away", but backtracking to just "another world" makes no sense. Also, it's somewhat important to note that Aya does use the term 異界 ("otherworld") here. The translation currently uses "other world" but nobody would ever know this is meant to be the same term. She basically says "in addition to Gensokyo, many so-called otherworlds exist".

- Akyuu suddenly mentioning a flower viewing is meant to surprise Aya, and implies that the gathering is related to the discussion. Probably could come across better.

- "Nameless devil in shadows" -> "Nameless demon that was nothing but a shadow", or something. It literally looks like a shadow.

- "Why did you mention it now" -> "Why would it appear now"; hence showing the scroll it was sealed in. Or even just "why now of all times" to keep the ambiguity.

The last few pages are also done super weird, but aren't as important in terms of narrative or mood.

Overall I feel like the intended atmosphere of the chapter has been lost a bit. It's really easy to look at this chapter after the big buildup of the previous chapters and think it doesn't make any sense, but the swift cut at the climax to this atmosphere is supposed to be disturbing.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:29:44 am by Drake »

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the old guy

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2017, 06:15:54 am »
Well, shit, now i'm worried about for the quality of the up coming chapters.
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Jeremie

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2017, 06:32:44 am »
I actually hope there won't be much fighting. I mean, besides the earlier ones, fighting is indeed not really a part of the Touhou manga series. We do see some instances of it but often, it's skipped or it genuinely exists to establish an element of the story which is explained through the battle. I feel the "battle" between Reimu and the three faeries is good example of the former while the one between Yukari and them is one of the latter. We do see some violence and things like that but generally, those manga have a more... how can I say... "cerebral" feel to them? If we get to see a fight in 53, I feel it might be brief or it'll have a focus on dialogue between the characters.

Personally I feel the weakness of this chapter is through the overall lack of content even though it's indeed here to set up 53. Yes, we do get new information about Mamizou and that an unusual party is set up but I feel the chapter suffers due to the fact that we are given information we, the reader are already aware from some of the earlier chapters which I feel severely undermines the tension going on. Whether we get any fighting or not in 53,  personally I'm pretty sure it'll be an interesting chapter if it catches up and/or follows up on the previous chapters. Eitherway, 52 is not even that bad and I think it's fair to believe ZUN completely knows what he's doing and while the translation isn't perfect based on what you've shown us Drake (thanks for clarifying some of the content of the chapter), it's still great that those who can't read Japanese are able to continue seeing more of the story.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 06:34:42 am by Jeremie »
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2017, 06:43:43 am »
God, I'm so tired of this silly entitlement in the western fanbase when some people start talking crap about ZUN's writing just because things don't go the exact way they thought they should go. Soften up, people, let the official story be as flexible as ZUN wants. Besides, I called it:

Please, people. This manga series isn't the kind to feature huge battles. Next chapter will probably be the epilogue, with the scroll destroyed but Kosuzu going on with her business. I mean, did you seriously hope for something big and game-changing? In an official Touhou manga? HAH!

So it wasn't impossible to predict how the manga would go. As Drake said, FS is no shonen series. Enjoy it for what it is instead.

Lt Colonel Summers

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2017, 01:19:12 pm »
But still, that kind of killed off any hype the entire fanbase has for chapter 53, or everything after that point in FS...

I guess I won't be looking forward to ch53 at all...

EDIT: A relative of mine is so pissed at it that he decided to rechristen Forbidden Scrollery as Forbidden Screwery. Talk about being the most disappointing thing in Touhou canon since Hopeless Masquerade...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 01:55:48 pm by Lt Colonel Summers »
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Spotty Len

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2017, 03:07:43 pm »
But still, that kind of killed off any hype the entire fanbase has for chapter 53, or everything after that point in FS...
Yeah, no, you shouldn't generalize that kind of stuff.

TrueShadow

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2017, 03:51:02 pm »
The lack of action after last month's cliffhangers is disappointing, yeah. But honestly, FS has always been a mystery manga rather than action. Like, this entire chapter feels ominous. Kosuzu's still missing, Reimu's nowhere to be seen, and it has an eerie title like "Yukari Yakumo's Peace". This doesn't feel out of place at all.

Talk about being the most disappointing thing in Touhou canon since Hopeless Masquerade...
Hopeless Masquerade introduced Kokoro, so any argument about it being disappointing is null and void. :P
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 06:05:35 pm by TrueShadow »

PK

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2017, 05:25:24 pm »
We are going to know what happened in ch53, maybe ZUN decided to make it a flashback instead of a continuous thing because the flower viewing (and thus the fact that flowers blossomed suddenly) had to happen a bit before HSiFS and something important happens during the party itself, which apparently includes only the important characters.

It was quite short, though.
Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2017, 07:13:33 pm »
People really need to stop acting like their opinions + 2 of their friends opinions = the ENTIRE WESTERN FANBASE, FROM EUROPE TO AMERICA, AFRICA AND ANTARCTICA. cue to penguins reading FS

I for one liked the ominously peaceful chapter, especially since the last one was anything but peaceful.  Just the fact that Marisa of all people is manning the shrine already shows that there's some pretty weird things happening.  Who's behind this flower viewing anyway?  Who invited everyone?  Why selective invitations?

I'll be excited for whatever happens in the next chapter, be it a huge fight or some twist-filled-yet-calm explanation over sake to what happened.

And the translation itself, I liked it.  But in regards of the translation's quality, it's understandable that it isn't top notch AAA quality, but let's all remember that whoever did this just started.  This is their first translation of FS, after all.  Give them time so they can start picking up the pace and figuring out where they improve. 
Posts like Drake's are good - provided the translators are within this community and see it - because they can learn the little quirks of the narrative and point them out with better clarity next time.   

So yeah, Kudos to Eternity Lovers!

Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2017, 08:48:26 pm »
So, we got a Chapter 48.3. Nothing really happens but I guess it shows the mood in-between. However, Akyuu willing to trust Aya, a tengu, just to attend a flower viewing. That's just weird.
This chapter made me remember those fillers that you find in Naruto and One Piece.
The worst is that Part 2 will only come in September.

However, it does confirm something: Zun wants to build up the story into probably a game.

*snip*

Dude. Why aren't you translating instead?! You seem much more agile with Japanese that they are. At least, be their QC >.<

Regardless, it gives us a rough idea for us that don't have a clue. Just having it somewhat translated, I'm really happy about it.

Sophilia

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2017, 09:27:15 pm »
Yeah, with all the action going down, it's easy to lose sight of the horror that FS is trying to convey.  To me, it just ratchets up the suspense another few notches, which is honestly what I think ZUN was going for in the first place.  True that the Incident seems to have been resolved, but how?  Why?  At what price?  Where's Kosuzu?  What's Kosuzu?  Anyone who's followed the series this far has at least a few of these questions haunting them.  And whether they're indignant they haven't been answered yet, or scared of what the answers may be, this mood is deliberate and serves to draw people in to the conclusion even further.
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Nook

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #81 on: July 10, 2017, 09:32:04 pm »
"September Issue" does not actually mean they're waiting until September to continue the story. Chapter 52 of FS was in the CompAce August Issue, despite being released in June.

Anyway the content of the chapter is fine but the translation is terrible and really takes me out of it.

TresserT

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #82 on: July 10, 2017, 09:50:58 pm »
Personally I'm just grateful somebody was willing to translate it.
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2017, 02:06:03 am »
Personally I'm just grateful somebody was willing to translate it.

My thoughts exactly.  Solemnly having a translation is already amazing. 

For me, a high quality translation is (whist certainly welcome) totally not mandatory.  I'll be saving my demands for top notch, quality translation when I buy Yen Press' volumes. 
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 02:08:47 am by Linnah »

Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2017, 04:15:22 am »
Personally I'm just grateful somebody was willing to translate it.
Regardless, it gives us a rough idea for us that don't have a clue. Just having it somewhat translated, I'm really happy about it.
Hey, I said exactly just that did I?

martelefort

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2017, 02:58:10 pm »
Here comes some random thoughts i had : the chapter titles seem to follow a pattern since chapter 46 : character's name plus their actions on the universe that matters, and the last chapter is no exception.

BernkastelWitch

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2017, 08:08:52 pm »
The latest chapter was a bit underwhelming but it is a bit unnerving of how it was presented. I feel like there's more to this than it seems.

Drake

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2017, 09:57:43 am »
Dude. Why aren't you translating instead?! You seem much more agile with Japanese that they are. At least, be their QC >.<
Hahaha I am not fast whatsoever.

Anyways, I really would rather not put myself in a position where a hungry and often entitled fandom is putting their expectations on me to deliver content for them, especially so when that would seem like I'm "filling in" for another respected translator that stopped for reasons I would feel like I'm stepping on if I ignored. Sorry if it seems rather harsh, but my goal is absolutely not to deliver content, my goal is to inform people so that they will be less wrong about the series and can better appreciate its delicious gooey filling. One could easily argue that the best way to do this would be to provide the translations myself (which I already do in some capacities), but not only do I not quite have enough confidence for that as a translator nor as someone who would be able to accurately pull apart all of the references, but I do not feel comfortable being the source of distribution of the manga for people.

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that 99% of overseas fans do not subscribe to the serialization, and although a key part of this is obviously that people can't read it raw and maybe they even buy the tankobon for the sake of support/collection, it still feels undeserved to me to simply hand out everything to everyone. For comparison to a Japanese audience, the TPPC questionnaire shows that the number of people interested in "Story" is basically the same as the number of people buying the tankobon. But because there's no realistic option of presenting a translation to only some people without having it immediately posted everywhere, there's little reason to get the serialization (and the tankobon offers barely more) besides raw speed of looking at pretty art before you get it for free anyways, and there's no way of getting around that.

Ideally, for me, we would have some sort of system where if you bought the magazine or the tankobon through a service like Bookwalker, you would magically also get a copy of a translation. This wouldn't stop piracy but it would make the line much more clearly defined and appropriately reward those who purchase. I would feel no qualms about contributing to something like that. There's still the licensed tankobon being way behind as a factor, but as long as it isn't garbage I think people would buy it alongside anyways. One very silly but arguably effective move could be to deliberately have inexperienced translators handle quick tl/edits, write down all the errors and fill in the details completely on the side, and leave the licensed tankobon as a premium product so people actually buy it. Maybe that's been my real plan all along.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 10:10:57 am by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #88 on: July 12, 2017, 10:49:58 am »
inb4 licensed translation has more errors and lost details than any fan-made one

Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #89 on: July 12, 2017, 10:28:19 pm »
inb4 licensed translation has more errors and lost details than any fan-made one
<offtopic>
And most of the time, this is why I prefer fan TLs over official. Official TLs lack the subtleties of what fandom consider "correct" such as the spellings, the Japanese honorifics, etc. This is the main reason why I still haven't pre-ordered FS Vol.1: I'm just too scared of the translation.

But don't get me wrong: I like to encourage the artists as much as the next guy but I just can't buy something I'm most likely to be disappointed in.

</offtopic>
 

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