Topic: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]  (Read 11320 times)

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The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« on: April 26, 2017, 09:35:31 pm »
SPOILER SPACE PLEASE DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T CATCH UP ON FORBIDDEN SCROLLERY.
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Welp, Kosuzu's fucked. There's no way this is going to end happily without some serious bad writing. So i'm expecting a bittersweet ending at the least.

Maybe this will come up in Antinomy of Common Flowers? Possessed Kosuzu would be a epic boss.
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 10:16:53 pm »
Given we have at least two people skilled in dealing with possessions, I don't see why it's necessary for it to end poorly at all.

I mean, and this is before we get to people who could ad hoc it, like a knowledgible buddhist or taoist, or someone who can fuck with borders, or heck a ghost princess. I see no need for doomy gloom at all.

That said, Kosuzu in Antinomy would not be unwelcome!


Edit:
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *It'd be fun to beat up Kosuzu*
<DracoOmega> Hey, I wanted to PLAY her :P
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *Also fine*
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *But I'm much more excited about beating her up with Reimu and letting Reimu live the dream*
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *Or Marisa, while shouting "NEEEEEEEEEEEERD!"*
<DracoOmega> Hahaha
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *Pasting this in the thread*
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 12:31:30 am by Purji Costavis »

Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 12:37:45 am »
First of all, I want to say that there will also be small spoilers for Touhou Ibarakasen, by the end of this post. But mostly FS Vol.46-50.

It pretty much all started when Mamizou approched Akyuu so she could write her a book about Tanuki under her alias "Agatha Chris Q."(*1) After the meeting, Akyuu runs to Reimu to warn her about it and wheter or not they should warn Kosuzu about she's been manipulated by a tanuki. In the end, they decided to tell her. As a result, she was shocked to find out. So much that it put her perspective of human-youkai relationship into question. So, she went and ask Marisa and Akyuu about it. However, even if she didn't like Akyuu's attitude toward her question, she did tell her something that struck her hard: there are an infinite number of truths. Then, she meets with Yukari who silver-tongue her into admitting that she has an admiration for abnormal/youkai and that Yukari is ready to protect her from Reimu while making-sure she's also dealing with Youkai. Then, she's seen leaving the book store and leaving the village willingly with a bag of scrolls. In the lastest chapter, Reimu is seen pretty musch questionning all the youkai she has dealt with and both of them came up with alibis, siding with her. Mamizou made other Tanuki search for her and Aya wrote an article on how she went missing. In the process, Reimu hypotizes that she might have been spirited away but that quickly been shut down when Marisa thought finding Reimu and talks out loud about the "Night Parade Picture Scroll". Then, a seemingly wicked Kosuzu appears in front of Marisa and "reads" the last portion of the scroll releasing whatever there is within.

Now, what strikes me as odd in all this is the possession argument that pops-up now because we know a new game about possession is coming up with the backstory mentionning "An opponent who cannot be bested by anybody alone?". The thing is, yes she was manipulated by youkai but, at the end, she acted alone of her free will. She could've just do nothing of it, just do nothing of Yukari's "show of strength". But, Yukari being Yukari, she Silver-tongue her into admiring youkai. If you'd admire youkai so much, what would you do? Would you try to follow their footsteps? I think that's pretty much what happened here: she admitted herself to it ("her truth"), she took her most dangerous scrolls with her and went into hiding for a few days which led into the vol.50 happenings. I *personally* think that she wanted to become youkai herself, so she could be stopped being used as a tool so that youkai might, maybe, convince her of looking at her youma books. So, because of that, while there are precedents of manga chapters heading into games, I think it's this manga's main plotline starting for real (it isn't called "Forbidden Scrollery" for nothing right?) and that it's just the timing with AoCF being incredibly lucky.

That's my personal take on it. I'd love to see a known human of Gensokyo turning youkai, get away with it and live on. So, that's why I'm just hoping that the FS and AoCF stories will be stories of their own.

*Prepares to have his argument to be destroyed*

(*1) I still lol every time I see that

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 12:57:15 am »
She's definitely fallen under paranoia and dark influences, but I'm of the opinion she's not being possessed at all.  She chose this path, and now she must walk it.
Though this is certainly an Incident, it's probably not AoCF.  That is something entirely different, growing out of the Urban Legends.  However, we don't know anything about HSiFS yet besides the characters' seasonal affiliation, so there's plenty of room for that to factor in.
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 01:31:40 am »
I was under the impression that Kosuzu's simply discovered the truth behind Gensokyo, the way the fortune teller did. She realized that humans are basically just cattle for the youkai right now. Her line about humans always suffering shows pretty clearly that she has an issue with the current situation of the world, or at least her place in it. I can see things going one of two ways.

She might admire youkai in the sense that she wants to become one, and between the Youma books and Yukari's protection she can do so. She's basically following the path of the fortune teller. She doesn't want to be cattle, so she's going to become a youkai.

The other interpretation is, she admires youkai in the sense that she admires their power. Unlike the fortune teller, she isn't just unhappy that she's a slave to the youkai, she's unhappy that humanity as a whole are slaves. Using the Youma books and Yukari's support, she's going to overturn society and make humans strong enough that they don't have to be slaves to youkai. Obviously this goes against everything that Gensokyo's about, though, so Reimu would be put in a tough position here. She'd either have to side with youkai and knock humans back down, or side with humans and risk destroying Gensokyo.

The thing I'm totally lost on is why Yukari would be helping Kosuzu in either situation. In LoLK she seemed pretty fine with Gensokyo being cleared away by Lunarians, and she doesn't seem to care about the occult balls changing Gensokyo's nature, so... I'm wondering if maybe her feelings about things are changing. Or I could be totally off the mark in both cases.

As for AoCF, I totally expect Kosuzu to be playable. Since we're getting 5 characters, she might even be the penultimate that teams up with the final boss.
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2017, 01:55:56 am »
Okay fine, I may jumped the gun on Kosuzu's fate. Maybe they'll beat it out of her and she'll come to her senses. But I worry that the ending will be anticlimactic, I don't want a simple stasis co ending where she goes to back to her normal safe life of book keeping, I want something that has consequences.


The thing I'm totally lost on is why Yukari would be helping Kosuzu in either situation. In LoLK she seemed pretty fine with Gensokyo being cleared away by Lunarians, and she doesn't seem to care about the occult balls changing Gensokyo's nature, so... I'm wondering if maybe her feelings about things are changing. Or I could be totally off the mark in both cases.
How do you know? All Yukari said was that those incidents were below her. There's nothing to prove that she wouldn't gave a shit if Gensokyo was destroyed, maybe she just had faith that Reimu would have sorted it out.

As for Yukari's motivation, I think her plan is for Kosuzu to turn full Youkai, only to be brutally murdered by Reimu soon after, then the news will hit the human village, sending the message "Don't become Youkai, your ALL sheep and that's what you'll always be, nevermore."

So really, its to remind the humans of their place. Touhou is a pretty dark series if you think about it!
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2017, 02:21:02 am »
I wasn't pretending like I knew for sure, all this is just guessing. And didn't Yukari say something like "it doesn't matter if Gensokyo changes" at the end of LoLK? My memory's a bit fuzzy so I might be getting the details wrong. I was just under the impression that she cares more about the concept of Gensokyo than its actual inhabitants.
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2017, 04:16:58 am »
I feel this is pretty interesting because the story can now head in so many directions. It can be indeed anti-climatic, dark or surprisingly lighthearted in the end. Going for a very dark tone would be interesting seeing how a lot of fans, still to this day have a very lighthearted view of the setting, calling Gensokyo an (x15)"Utopia(x15)". Some of the things that might happen might upset some of the fans and make them dislike some characters all of a sudden.

On the other hand, is there any chance that Kasen and Kosuzu team up for 15.5, serving as final bosses? I mean, that's highly unlikely but they both appear to be interested in shaking up the foundation of Gensokyo, meaning that their views "might" be compatible even if they happen to have opposite personality issues, thus expanding on Kasen views as well and also converging their story together. Again, I think that's unlikely but that would probably bring a "Holy Shit Quotient" to the series.

I also think all of this is sort of hilarious in hindsight. Many years ago I hosted a sort of Touhou D&D campaign. The final confrontation of the first story was against Kosuzu. Still, again, while I think the chances of her becoming a character in 15.5 have indeed increased to a certain degree, I have a hard time thinking her becoming the final boss will happen but nothing is really predictable when it comes to the series seeing how little minor dialogue bits can be used to excuse the presence of a character in a game.

Edit: Oh that or the Fortune Teller is coming back. I'm not saying it'll happen but I'm calling it just in case it somehow happens.  :V
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 11:23:12 pm by Jeremie »
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Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 04:35:35 am »
* Note that the Chapter 50 is Part 1 of 2. So, we'll have an "ending" to the current problem or know more in the next chapter at this time next month.
* As you guys know, Yukari has her own reasons to believe what she does and why she allows Kosuzu to be in the situation she's in. Remember what was her motives for the SSiB events? Yeah. If not, very brief summary: So she can steal this special sake from the lunarians to pay for the "Reisen, Eirin and Kaguya's residence in Gensokyo" tax.

Sophilia and TresserT pretty much cover my opinion on the whole. Summaries my thoughts way better than I did in my wall of text.

P.S I wanted to say more but I kinda forgot. I guess later.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 04:37:23 am by Lebon14 »

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 05:03:34 am »
Don't put yourself down too hard, I mean this:

I *personally* think that she wanted to become youkai herself, so she could be stopped being used as a tool

is a pretty fair summation of the situation in itself.  Of course, she still is a tool, unless she turns on Yukari in part two.  I wouldn't put it past her given the mindset she's in. 
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 06:25:00 am »
To reiterate what I said elsewhere, I'm amazed how much sense the title makes now. That damned scroll appeared near the beginning and was pretty much forgotten about, barely surfacing again. But now we see that, indeed, it's a powerful piece of scrollery that would've been best left forbidden to use.

Also, why are you people so sure Kosuzu HASN'T become a youkai already? That would be a bit too drastic for Touhou, but still, I see nothing to indicate it's "just a possession".

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 01:19:03 pm »
I would have opinions on this subject but it's so much easier for Clarste to have them for me.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 02:30:15 pm by Suwako Moriya »
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 02:20:27 pm »
Might be a bit minor, but since it still is related to the chapter, I might as well drop it here.

When Marisa goes to the Hakurei Shrine to tell Reimu about an emergency (not knowing that Reimu is currently not there), she hears a voice coming from the nearby woods and immediately assumes that's Reimu. Marisa tells "Reimu" about Kosuzu's disappearance, citing the Night Parade Scroll and all the other Youma Books that have disappeared along with Kosuzu. And its only at the end of the telling that Marisa finds out she is in fact talking to a wicked-looking Kosuzu.

Here's the problem: Why can't Marisa tell the difference between the voices of Reimu and Kosuzu...unless:
1. Reimu and Kosuzu has the same voice to begin with. Or...
2. Wicked!Kosuzu has the ability to mimic another person's voice perfectly and completely.

This might be unnecessary Wild Mass Guessing, but I'm just wondering.
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 02:27:07 pm »
I don't think it's that important. She was in the bushes and replied to her question, and there would be nobody else around, so it's easy for Marisa to have just assumed it was Reimu.

I mean that whole part was pretty manga-cliche. "It's you!!"

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 03:38:59 pm »
With Kosuzu gone I wonder how Aya is even able to distribute her newspaper in the first place.  Will she just go door to door handling it over?

Also, discussions like this make me wonder why we don't have a semi-permanent "Print Works discussion thread" like a handful of other threads around.  Would be useful for discussing new chapters and such.

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2017, 06:43:00 pm »
In making my speculation post I wanna say I'm of the mind to have a few assumptions here. I'm also assuming the intent was fully brought across in the english translation, but I won't cherry pick too terribly with exact verbiage - intent is what's important here, and inevitably some things framed in english will add nuance that was never intended to be there (hello possession v possession). Also I'm probably going to be in part or totally wrong here - but hey, that's the fun of speculation.


1. Motoori won't die.

This one's probably the most obvious. FS ending here would be rather abrupt, unsatisfying, and that being said...Yukari rather explicitly intervened mentioning she was aiming to 'save' Motoori. Which leads to assumption 2:

2. Yukari has an endgame here, and it isn't busting a youkai out of the scroll.

Or at least, not merely. If all she intended to do was do a jail-break for a friend, acquiescence, etc - she of all people would have an exceptionally trivial time simply nicking the scroll, and getting the seal on it busted. But pushing Motoori all the way over the edge did have a helpful effect here, which leads me to believe that:

3. Yukari's endgame is, primarily, cutting off the Youkai influences to Motoori and, by extension, the human village.

Right now, Motoori has: published Youma books for the kappa (unknowingly), distributed a newspaper for Aya (knowingly), and been approached by Mamizou who's rather borderline threatened her to gain access to her Youma books. As things stand, this makes Motoori a source of influence and power for two factions, and potentially a third. Of those, one of them even rather blatantly wants power and influence over the human village. Compounding this issue is that influence from the Youma books as well as actual Youkai is doubtlessly having an effect on Motoori.

As Yukari is rather keenly interested in the stability (not necessarily always the same as a balance of powers, but in this case it is) of Gensokyo as a whole, Motoori's status as '(un)witting pawn bringing about influence and power for various factions, especially over the human village' probably isn't sittin' well with her. On top of that - this is purely speculation on my part, but it doesn't seem like Yukari necessarily agrees with the fate FS has not so subtly foreshadowed's in store for Motoori if she keeps down this path of her own accord.

Key phrasing here being "of her own accord."

So far, the only on-screen transformation we know of from human to youkai was the fortune teller - but keep in mind that Reimu doesn't have qualms with Youkai as a whole existing, nor does it seem to be a sin for a human to have become a youkai (See: Keine). The key difference here was that the fortune teller deliberately turned himself into a Youkai and, as a result, intentionally violated that balance of power.

But wouldn't it be a different story if there was an out, an excuse - of someone becoming a Youkai not of their own accord nor intent? After-all, the night parade scroll is a dangerously powerful Youma book - perhaps the youkai inside's sheer presence is powerful enough to curse the reader. And if that's the case - hardly Motoori's fault, and if it isn't Motoori's fault, Reimu has no reason to put her to the sword.

Now, I don't necessarily think this is the only outcome. It's entirely possible that, if everything else I've said holds true, Motoori might learn to use the Youma books and control them whilst remaining a human. But the only outcome where a endgame of "promoting Motoori from a pawn so she can't get pushed around and forced to be a influence" makes sense is one where she has the power to fight back. And I think with all the foreshadowing in the past, it likely makes more sense for this to be Motoori's forceful push to the other side - and one that wasn't even her fault, since the youkai in the night parade scroll more or less forced her hand in a way that wasn't entirely (or perhaps even at all) of her own free will. But again, it's not necessary for her to become a youkai outright - simply learning to use the Youma books for her own defense would likely suffice to satisfy the demands of this theory.

Either way, I highly doubt this ends with everything going back to the status quo - it feels more like we're going down the path of a new meta-arc, one where Motoori has to deal with newfound powers. Perhaps if Yukari hadn't directly intervened I'd be more willing to buy that, but with her stepping in so directly I don't think this is going to end with Motoori "stop sticking your hand down the garbage disposal" Kosuzu remaining powerless. But her gaining powers doesn't necessarily mean that the status quo is irrecoverably changed - it simply means she now has the agency to make decisions beyond "agreeing with whatever decision people want to force down her throat," and can forge the truth she wants, for herself. With the convenient side effect of removing her as a easy scapegoat for Aya and co to push around as they please.

also this outcome allows for playable motoori in ACoF without her being the star of the show and man i love the parallels you can draw with motoori's appearance here and her appearance on the cover of volume 1
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 06:44:51 pm by nyttyn »
Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2017, 04:56:14 pm »
I caught up with FS because of all the discussion about it that popped up in various places. I bet I'm not the only one who did so, haha.
Totally worth it.

Scroll-influenced Kosuzu is cool, and there are a lot of directions where she could go, but I personally don't think she'll show up in a game simply due to the timing. There's three more FS chapters to go in this volume, and surely Kosuzu can't be possessed in all of them. But that begs the question of what exactly will happen in the last two chapters in particular.

I'm more interested to see how Reimu responds. Reimu and Kosuzu have had a pretty good friendship, but now Kosuzu's gone rogue and attacked not just another human but Reimu's best friend since childhood.
What will Reimu see when she confronts Kosuzu? A youthful bookseller or a traitorous ex-villager? Reimu's gonna have a lot of conflict in her mind, and that's gonna be fascinating to see next chapter.
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Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2017, 10:38:03 pm »
Either way, I highly doubt this ends with everything going back to the status quo - it feels more like we're going down the path of a new meta-arc, one where Motoori has to deal with newfound powers. Perhaps if Yukari hadn't directly intervened I'd be more willing to buy that, but with her stepping in so directly I don't think this is going to end with Motoori "stop sticking your hand down the garbage disposal" Kosuzu remaining powerless. But her gaining powers doesn't necessarily mean that the status quo is irrecoverably changed - it simply means she now has the agency to make decisions beyond "agreeing with whatever decision people want to force down her throat," and can forge the truth she wants, for herself. With the convenient side effect of removing her as a easy scapegoat for Aya and co to push around as they please.

Exactly. That's why I don't buy Clarste's explanation: Yukari. If Yukari wanted the scrolls, she wouldn't ask Kosuzu. She's probably along the few youkais that can *technically* bypass her and just steal it. But since she approached Kosuzu and said "I'll protect you from Reimu", there's a greater goal than the scroll. There's also the fact that she, Yukari, implies that something already happened to Kosuzu. If Kosuzu is human, why does Yukari need to go out of her way to protect Kosuzu from Reimu who protects humans? If Reimu knew of her opinion, she would probably slap Kosuzu and say "Bad bad Kosuzu! Youkais are bad, period!". But not farther than that.

I'm more interested to see how Reimu responds. Reimu and Kosuzu have had a pretty good friendship, but now Kosuzu's gone rogue and attacked not just another human but Reimu's best friend since childhood.
What will Reimu see when she confronts Kosuzu? A youthful bookseller or a traitorous ex-villager? Reimu's gonna have a lot of conflict in her mind, and that's gonna be fascinating to see next chapter.

Yep. Exactly. If she let it go, it might hurt her reputation (which is already not great) and hurt personally in the long run. But, if she does take of Kosuzu, she will fulfill her duties but at what price? Because It might not be a status-quo solution.

I always saw Reimu walking on a plank/tightrope: if on one side she decides to devotes to her duties, practice her skills, etc, she could amass faith for herself, and not her "god" (if it (still) exists that is). We must remeber that Reimu is pretty much a gifted Shrine Maiden. She's just good at what she does without any training. But if she trains? Yeah. On the other hand, if she becomes too lazy, only take care of incidents that only affects her personally, fail at her duties (talking extremes here I know), she could become hated. The opposite of faith. I'll let you come to your own conclusions for this.

But yes, Reimu is also another pillar in this. Mamizou doesn't give a damn but decided to give one anyway. Likewise for Aya. Marisa cares because it's her friend too and *coughcoughcoughbookscoughcoughcough*.

Sophilia

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2017, 02:35:24 am »
Exactly. That's why I don't buy Clarste's explanation: Yukari. If Yukari wanted the scrolls, she wouldn't ask Kosuzu. She's probably along the few youkais that can *technically* bypass her and just steal it. But since she approached Kosuzu and said "I'll protect you from Reimu", there's a greater goal than the scroll. There's also the fact that she, Yukari, implies that something already happened to Kosuzu. If Kosuzu is human, why does Yukari need to go out of her way to protect Kosuzu from Reimu who protects humans? If Reimu knew of her opinion, she would probably slap Kosuzu and say "Bad bad Kosuzu! Youkais are bad, period!". But not farther than that.

Several people elsewhere have noted the parallel between Kosuzu's story and Mary's.  So if there's anyone who knows about this kind of slow transition to youkaidom, it'd be the former Mary herself.  Though, whether she passed the point of no return is still a matter of opinion.  Even her friends are split on it, to be honest.
Marisa and Aya still considered her totally human up to this point.  Akyuu saw the danger but didn't consider it too late to educate her.  But Reimu had labeled her as jinyou twenty chapters ago, and Mamizou has been preaching her fall for even longer.
As for me?  I won't be surprised if she's been an unknowing youkai as far back as her Love Letters powerup.  But I also won't be surprised if it was just this spell casting that finished her transformation.
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Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2017, 03:41:13 am »
There's also the fact that she looks... kinda ageless. Besides from the mention "Our ages aren't even that far apart" from her in chapter 48, means that she's a bit younger than Akyuu (who's around 22/23 if born in 1994) but she doesn't even look like it. She doesn't look like a young adult at all.

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2017, 05:03:54 am »
Plot twist: Not only is Kosuzu still human, it turns out Mamizou was a human wizard the whole time and didn't know it.

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2017, 05:29:00 am »
There's also the fact that she looks... kinda ageless. Besides from the mention "Our ages aren't even that far apart" from her in chapter 48, means that she's a bit younger than Akyuu (who's around 22/23 if born in 1994) but she doesn't even look like it. She doesn't look like a young adult at all.

Nobody ages physically in Touhou. Reimu and Marisa are supposedly in their mid-20s already, but they still look like preteens...
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2017, 06:13:40 am »
Marisa and Aya still considered her totally human up to this point.  Akyuu saw the danger but didn't consider it too late to educate her.  But Reimu had labeled her as jinyou twenty chapters ago, and Mamizou has been preaching her fall for even longer.
As for me?  I won't be surprised if she's been an unknowing youkai as far back as her Love Letters powerup.  But I also won't be surprised if it was just this spell casting that finished her transformation.
There's also the fact that she looks... kinda ageless. Besides from the mention "Our ages aren't even that far apart" from her in chapter 48, means that she's a bit younger than Akyuu (who's around 22/23 if born in 1994) but she doesn't even look like it. She doesn't look like a young adult at all.
Ehhhh. Kind of the mark of a youkai is that they act and exist like a youkai. I don't really think it's possible, as far as the series is concerned, to secretly be a youkai without knowing it and having no particularly non-human traits or behaviour. If anything I'd think such an occurrence would happen when a human is simply unaware that they've changed so much that other people already treat and think of them as a youkai, kind of like in the case of Ichirin but less obviously.

Nobody ages physically in Touhou. Reimu and Marisa are supposedly in their mid-20s already, but they still look like preteens...


no aging going on here
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 06:20:34 am by Drake »

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2017, 01:58:34 pm »
no aging going on here

That's not all that fair. I don't think he literally meant no one ages, but you definitely can't judge a character's age by their artwork since a lot of official artists draw them like preteens/teenagers regardless of their real age.

Also these are 11 years apart too so shrug.
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2017, 02:31:13 pm »
Yeah, I'd not consider the artist's design staying consistent as a point for or against their species.  ZUN himself has said he's reluctant to give Reimu and Marisa actual ages because it ruins the immersion.  Plus, Kosuzu being super cute has an entirely different symbolism in this case; namely, her innocence.

If anything I'd think such an occurrence would happen when a human is simply unaware that they've changed so much that other people already treat and think of them as a youkai, kind of like in the case of Ichirin but less obviously.
We'd need a wider sample of people to judge, then, since those closest to her are of different minds about it.  To that end, she was still selling books and newspaper up till Yukari showed up, so Joe Human probably didn't think things too out of the ordinary.

Plot twist: Not only is Kosuzu still human, it turns out Mamizou was a human wizard the whole time and didn't know it.
Oh come on.  A wizard?  She's clearly a ninja.  :V
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2017, 03:13:30 pm »
That's not all that fair. I don't think he literally meant no one ages, but you definitely can't judge a character's age by their artwork since a lot of official artists draw them like preteens/teenagers regardless of their real age.
It's the same artist.

I'm being tongue-in-cheek here; your point is also my point. You can't say they're "supposedly" some age while also saying they "look" a certain age when artists will draw them however they imagine.

We'd need a wider sample of people to judge, then, since those closest to her are of different minds about it.
I mean, surely you wouldn't say that it's generally believed in-universe that Kosuzu is a youkai. That's what's important, not so much that some people think she's closer to youkai influence than average.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 03:15:24 pm by Drake »

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2017, 03:33:59 pm »
I actually have a feeling that Kosuzu didn't attack Marisa, and the witch ended up unconcious for some other reason. Her reaction after she woke up is too light-hearted for someone whose friend just betrayed and attacked her, don't you think?
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2017, 11:43:03 pm »
I actually have a feeling that Kosuzu didn't attack Marisa, and the witch ended up unconcious for some other reason. Her reaction after she woke up is too light-hearted for someone whose friend just betrayed and attacked her, don't you think?

Or maybe Marisa, as an airhead, is more concerned about being given a funeral when she is still alive... :v
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2017, 03:41:19 pm »
Just curious, how has the Japanese community responded to this chapter?
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2017, 04:40:43 am »
"wow" "oh no"

Obviously a lot of comparisons to 25 have been made and there's similar discussion of Kosuzu becoming a youkai, becoming a part of the new games, etc, but that's all really low-hanging fruit. Response is similar but maybe not as much dumb meme outrage about the fortune teller.

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