Topic: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release  (Read 48914 times)

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See Thcrap is something that's an ipsec nightmare (seriously javascript injectors is just a massive NO) so I don't touch it. If they ever made real translation patches anymore...
Thcrap is not a JavaScript injector. Like with the game mechanics, this sounds like another case of not wanting to research.
I'm a pretty security conscious guy. I've even looked at the source code for thcrap a little bit.
A static patch has patch data (text, images, diffs) in its installer. Thcrap downloads patch data from online repositories and into a local browseable folder These online repositories are as secure as any other website on the internet.
A static patch edits the game at patch install time. Thcrap simply edits the game at game launch time.
Thcrap is totally fine, software-wise. There are other legitimate reasons to not use it, but you haven't brought those up.
Also this is a Touhou 16 thread, I'm not sure how much longer we can keep this discussion going.
I think we're done chasing the ever-moving goalposts here.
Playing Touhou since 18 March 2012. Playing video games since 19XX.
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Hard 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, CtC.
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Tengukami

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I'm a pretty security conscious guy. I've even looked at the source code for thcrap a little bit.

Yeah, same, and I was even one of the more vocal (read: annoying) opponents of thcrap initially. After opening it up and looking at it, though, I honestly haven't found a single problem with it security wise. And again, if you wanted to be REALLY super careful, you could always just disable the online function post-patching.

Which is relevant to anyone wondering if they should use thcrap for Touhou 16, the subject of this thread.

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Thcrap is not a JavaScript injector. Like with the game mechanics, this sounds like another case of not wanting to research.
I'm a pretty security conscious guy. I've even looked at the source code for thcrap a little bit.
A static patch has patch data (text, images, diffs) in its installer. Thcrap downloads patch data from online repositories and into a local browseable folder These online repositories are as secure as any other website on the internet.
A static patch edits the game at patch install time. Thcrap simply edits the game at game launch time.
Thcrap is totally fine, software-wise. There are other legitimate reasons to not use it, but you haven't brought those up.
Also this is a Touhou 16 thread, I'm not sure how much longer we can keep this discussion going.

Weird as I stumbled upon something tied to it which was just filled with .js files and presumed it was a .js injector.  I'd rather it be a purely static patch. 

And why is it online by default?  You had to last time I checked to into .ini files to turn online mode off instead of it being an installer option of I do not want online mode EVER.  Static patches  are just infinitely superior to the always online checking of Thcrap.
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There was a call for dynamic patches because Touhou went many years with static patches that contained overly liberal translations and/or outright mistranslations. (Among other notable examples, Ranmilia had a great post on SomethingAwful a few years ago lamenting his "Now, bitch, get out of the way!" decision for IN.) We accepted it at the time because (a) we didn't know better, and (b) we were desperate for anything we could get - things like BAiJR and PMiSS took forever to get translated simply because no one was around to work on them - but now that those concerns have been addressed by the rocketing number of quality translators, many people want accurate translations above all else. This more or less requires multiple passes by multiple translators to get everything "right", which an immediate static patch would not take into account.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Zelinko

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There was a call for dynamic patches because Touhou went many years with static patches that contained overly liberal translations and/or outright mistranslations. (Among other notable examples, Ranmilia had a great post on SomethingAwful a few years ago lamenting his "Now, bitch, get out of the way!" decision for IN.) We accepted it at the time because (a) we didn't know better, and (b) we were desperate for anything we could get - things like BAiJR and PMiSS took forever to get translated simply because no one was around to work on them - but now that those concerns have been addressed by the rocketing number of quality translators, many people want accurate translations above all else. This more or less requires multiple passes by multiple translators to get everything "right", which an immediate static patch would not take into account.

Or you avoid Go Fever and wait for the good translation before you put it out.  I know everyone's got the damn thing now but I can wait for an actual patch. 
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Weird as I stumbled upon something tied to it which was just filled with .js files and presumed it was a .js injector.  I'd rather it be a purely static patch. 

And why is it online by default?  You had to last time I checked to into .ini files to turn online mode off instead of it being an installer option of I do not want online mode EVER.  Static patches  are just infinitely superior to the always online checking of Thcrap.
The js contains data in JSON format. No JavaScript code is contained in those files.

Static patch: Download patch installer (which comes with patch data from X date), apply patch at install.
Thcrap: Download patch installer, patch installer downloads patch data from today's date, apply patch at game launch.
If you want a static patch, set up thcrap then rename thcrap_update.dll to disable online connectivity. Want a "newer patch version" later? Restore thcrap_update.dll, reconfigure, then rename again.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 03:46:51 pm by shockdude »
Playing Touhou since 18 March 2012. Playing video games since 19XX.
Normal 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, CtC.
Extra 1CC: EoSD, PCB+Phantasm, IN, PoFV (K&S), MoF, SA, TD, CtC+Phantasm.
Hard 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, CtC.
Lunatic 1CC: EoSD

Zelinko

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Static patch: Download patch installer (which comes with patch data from X date), apply patch at install.
Thcrap: Download patch installer, patch installer downloads patch data from today's date, apply patch at game launch.
If you want a static patch, set up thcrap then rename thcrap_update.dll to disable online connectivity. Want a "newer patch version" later? Restore thcrap_update.dll, reconfigure, then rename again.

The fact I have to dig and rip out .dll files in itself is a massive flaw of thcrap.  By default it should NOT check for updates. If you're forced to rip out .dll files from a program then your program is fucked.
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Tengukami

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The fact I have to dig and rip out .dll files in itself is a massive flaw of thcrap.  By default it should NOT check for updates. If you're forced to rip out .dll files from a program then your program is fucked.

You make it sound like some monumental effort. The .dll is the function of a dynamic patch, so of course it's there by default. It takes literally 5 seconds to go into the thcrap directory and delete/rename the file. Jesus.

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I must confess, the willingness to wait for "the good translation" (which is a nebulous concept in and of itself) is rather incongruous with the unwillingness to take the time to rename a single file.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Tengukami

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I must confess, the willingness to wait for "the good translation" (which is a nebulous concept in and of itself) is rather incongruous with the unwillingness to take the time to rename a single file.

YUUUP. Five seconds vs. who knows how long.

Anyways, I think there's no getting to a satisfactory point here. There's always going to be an excuse.


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Jimmy

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The fact I have to dig and rip out .dll files in itself is a massive flaw of thcrap.  By default it should NOT check for updates. If you're forced to rip out .dll files from a program then your program is fucked.
I'm confused as for how you could consider that a flaw. Get the .dll file out if you don't want updates, get it in again if you want the translations revised, simple as that. It's designed to update every once in a while since new information could surface from unknown references or vocabulary in the dialogues and other texts in-game, especially between the demo and full release and particularly after the full release. Why shouldn't it do so? It's far more flexible that way.

Anyways, I think there's no getting to a satisfactory point here. There's always going to be an excuse.
This.
Let's get back to HSiFS-related discussions. I feel that this thread's going to derail if we keep this up too long.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 04:14:35 pm by Jimmy »
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Hard 1cc: IN, DDC
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Suwako Moriya

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Yes, I suppose this is enough discussion of the merits and drawbacks of various translation setups.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.
You know a person is biased when far a too many of their statements stem completely personal (and terribly unpopular) opinion, and no critique whatsoever can't be done without a "Well, -I- think".  Kinda unpleasant.

That being said, back to the new touhou game!

I'm so surprised even in her profile she's being called Tanned Cirno.  Part of me makes me wonder if there'll be some deeper meaning behind this or if it's just a new  joke. 

That being said, makes me think how exactly will the shottypes work.  Reimu and Aya seem to have the same the same yellow bullets, but from Cirno's SS you can see that selecting a single character is a thing (In other words, teams are unlikely unless it's like IN where you can play either as a team or as a solo character - even if iirc you could only unlock solos after beating extra or something). 

also hot dang after you guys mentioned it I too noticed Reimu's gohei is huuuge

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Jimmy said it well along with many others. Time to get back to the show folks. If you feel like continuing the discussion anyway, then you're always welcome to open the specific threads in one of the fitting forum sections. Or perhaps you want to take it more 'live' by discussing it on IRC? Plenty of opportunities.

Also I personally trust the community is capable of handling derailing most of the time. Cut by 2 people :V

Edit:
Drake had linked this on IRC and had to laugh out loud at work (partially shown, see link below for full. Artist twitter = NSFW, be warned)

Source: https://twitter.com/keta_icetea/status/855083312477372417    Warning, this artist is NSFW / R-18.

異変だァ!!!  It is an incident!!!
うぐうっ!!!  Gah!!!
  (how does one even translate うぐうっ English sometimes...) 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 04:35:49 pm by Helepolis »
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Maple

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Someone I know said these bonus options are created by filling up the lower-left meter.

(Some data comparison they did.)
(Image removed from quote.)

What is the name in red at the end of Marisa's row? It's in Chinese, i could only see the 多 as in Kogasa's surname but it's not Kogasa.
Θώθ what's this? Oh, it's just my art blog.

Tengukami

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Drake had linked this on IRC and had to laugh out loud at work (partially shown, see link below for full. Artist twitter = NSFW, be warned)
(Image removed from quote.)
Source: https://twitter.com/keta_icetea/status/855083312477372417    Warning, this artist is NSFW / R-18.

異変だァ!!!  It is an incident!!!
うぐうっ!!!  Gah!!!
  (how does one even translate うぐうっ English sometimes...) 

Clearly this gohei is going to be used as a perch for the various crows she'll collect as she travels.

Is this not obvious???

I'm so surprised even in her profile she's being called Tanned Cirno.  Part of me makes me wonder if there'll be some deeper meaning behind this or if it's just a new  joke.

This will be an alterego Cirno; she'll think she's quite weak, but will be the literal strongest.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 04:43:30 pm by Tengukami »

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The last several games (definitely by UFO, arguably as far back as MoF) have been very "abuse the system to gain an absurd number of resources, bomb (or trance) to get even more resources, then cheese the hardest parts with your absurd number of lives/bombs". TD was admittedly less focused on this than UFO/GFW/DDC/LoLK, but the whole "10 seconds of powerful invincible mode" made the "cheese the harder parts" bit still there.

Compare to the older games, where bombs and lives were much more finite resources, so you had to be careful and save them for when you really needed them. Suiciding back then was much less of a valid option. Even in MoF and SA; you do get a ton of bombs, but making super risky decisions to get those bombs is probably not a good idea.

I'd personally like to see an "old style" game again. I very much like the "cheese everything for tons of resources"-type games, LoLK and GFW are two of my favorites in the series. It's just nice to take a breather from that kind of gameplay every now and then. And it'd be nice to have something new to take that breather with.

Though if it does turn out to be the kind of game I described I'm sure I'll still enjoy it a ton.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 04:43:40 pm by TresserT »
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

Helepolis

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Someone should draw Reimu partaking in the pole vault contest for Japan 2020 Olympics  with that Gohei
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Jimmy

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What is the name in red at the end of Marisa's row? It's in Chinese, i could only see the 多 as in Kogasa's surname but it's not Kogasa.
From what I could read, it's actually not a name, hence probably why it's written in red.
"多种可能" (duō zhǒng kě nÚng) can be translated into "There are multiple possibilities", given that we don't know anything specific about the game's mechanics yet.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 04:48:23 pm by Jimmy »
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK Legacy
Hard 1cc: IN, DDC
Extra clears: MoF, DDC

Goals: Going Extra Hard!

Helepolis

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Clearly this gohei is going to be used as a perch for the various crows she'll collect as she travels.
Crow Kebab. Sounds delicious!


Someone should draw Reimu partaking in the pole vault contest for Japan 2020 Olympics  with that Gohei
I had to do this:
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Jimmy

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Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK Legacy
Hard 1cc: IN, DDC
Extra clears: MoF, DDC

Goals: Going Extra Hard!
Guess I was right to give Reimu a spear in my LP back who knows when :V
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Leon゠Helsing

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Clearly Reimu needs to use that long-ass gohei to spear someone in the head a la End of Evangelion. :V

Gondolin

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Was starting to wonder when ZUN would speak about the new game he was working on. Super excited to see what HSiFS will bring!

I'd really love to see Yuuka make an appearance, if for no other reason than to get her some more interesting spellcards besides the two she has from PoFV.

notext

  • Nickname: Arik
Compare to the older games, where bombs and lives were much more finite resources, so you had to be careful and save them for when you really needed them. Suiciding back then was much less of a valid option. Even in MoF and SA; you do get a ton of bombs, but making super risky decisions to get those bombs is probably not a good idea.

Perfect Cherry Blossom let you max out the lives counter by the end of stage three while giving you four bombs per life, and that was the best game in the series.

I really admired ~*~the economy~*~ of DDC's design; it was essentially UFO without the ufos, encouraging you to collect large numbers of items for a big reward while relying on the POC and bombs to let you do so, rather than introducing a group of other collectibles. Remember that ZUN described that game as being somewhat back to basics as well, so it might be an idea of what to expect.

Wishlist:

- I hope the bullet vibration goes away, I hated that, it made things feel imprecise.
- No hard patterns using tiny pea bullets! Those were my least favourite parts of both TD and DDC's final bosses.
- More generally, I hope there isn't too much ui screw going on. I'm optimistic about this since there wasn't really any in LOLK, but I'd have liked DDC much more without it (and Seija wasn't the worst offender).
- The difficulty curve could probably be shallower; since TD I keep finding I need to step up the difficulty a level to keep the first few levels interesting, but then get frustrated by the game's latter half.

Beyond that, and on a more positive note, I've learned never to discount a Touhou game, because I've done that before, returned to the backlog years later and ended up loving them. Although maybe that just means I should go dark on Touhou until 2020 and then catch up.

I remember reading that ZUN focuses on what he sees as the weaknesses of his previous games when making a new one. I wonder what he thinks the weaknesses of LOLK were?

WindyKitsune

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16th Touhou is incoming, the journey continues, such a good news!

Seasons being one of main themes of this game reminds me a lot Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, especially because of Marisa complaining about the weather; seasons have been a background aspect of ZUN's games and it will be interesting to see how ZUN will develop the theme.
Tanned Cirno leaves me puzzled: it's an ice fairy and as expected effect she should melt/weaken, instead she is tanned >:( ; ZUN has his own sense of humor (like Youmu is a sword expert and a gardener makes me think of Youmu cutting trees with her powerful swords :D) . indeed it will be a prolific source of fandom artworks.

Big hopes for the music, until now ZUN has never disappointed me (since EoSD to SA/SWR games)!

teefa85

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Only a few screenshots and I'm definitely excited!  I'm also very interested to see what's up with Cirno and her awesome tan.

Failure McFailFace

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Itsuari further suggests this can potentially connect the story to a currently ongoing plot thread in Touhou: the Gensokyoan mythology of the Big Dipper as the ultimate youkai - a heavenly dragon, threatening to swallow the light of Polaris.
Could you explain this? I've never heard of this plot thread. Is it from one of the mangas/books/OSTs/that official magazine?

Tanned Cirno leaves me puzzled: it's an ice fairy and as expected effect she should melt/weaken, instead she is tanned >:( ; Z
Yes, an ice fairy should melt by logic. But, Cirno at this point might be so powerful that she resists heat, and thus a tan. This might have been the case earlier, since in Hisotensoku, she falls into a freaking nuclear reactor and comes out unscathed.
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TresserT

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...Cirno is a fairy that represents ice... she isn't literally made of ice, you realize....?
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

martelefort

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Sneak profile pic change :D

From what i've seen in all the mangas, they only talk about dragons in CiLA, and it was mostly Rinnosuke making bullcrap theories. As for Cirno + summer, her power isn't shown to be weakened, but she can't stand the heat at all, and her wings seems to melt.
 

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