Author Topic: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」 announced  (Read 295024 times)

Jimmy

  • Shameless spender
  • gaining big pounds
I'd rather have a game going back to simplicity. I don't want a DDC style setup as that was just as heavily gimmick focused as UFO or TD. Just get us back to like EoSD/PCB/IN (just make sure the hitboxes ain't wonky like in EoSD).  I don't like the entire "YOU MUST BE HYPER AGGRESSIVE OR GET NOTHING" Mindset that LoLK and DDC really pushed. 

I like the idea for a 'coasting' game which is just focused on having fun and not dealing with annoying gimmicks. Hell it's been what I've been kinda looking for for years,  TD brought the difficulty back down from "This is just not fun at all" of UFO but LoLK went 'you call that hard?'  Because of Point Device Mode being pushed super hard because of how bad the drops were in Legacy Mode.
To be honest though, I don't think that DDC has anything gameplay-wise that could be warranted as a truly intrusive gimmick aside the PoC-mechanic, which is actually a really simple and easy thing compared to especially UFO, TD and LoLK. The resource system there actually has IMO the most sustainable concept out of all games so far, meaning that the mechanic allows you to collect an indefinite amount of  lives and bombs. In the aforementioned three games, however, the special items from which you obtain said resources all have a definite amount which will actually limit resource gain, TD moreso than the others, considering that each subsequent extend requires more pink spirits which are already pretty sparse if you don't speedkill certain stage enemies. LoLK doesn't have any special items like UFO and TD did, but there's that grazing mechanic and the checkpoint system that make the gameplay unique and challenging.

I'm assuming that HSiFS will turn out similar like DDC, considering we all have a somewhat different interpretation of what "simple gameplay" is like. ZUN said that DDC was going to be simple game mechanic-wise, and compared to its predecessors it actually was. It may involve scoring as an essential way to gain resources like EoSD or MoF, or a PoC based mechanic like DDC. The gauge in the bottom left corner kinda reminds me of MoF's faith (PIV) meter, but in HSiFS the PIV is displayed with all other HUD elements so the gauge might involve something new.

When is Summer Komiket, by the way?
Usually mid-August, hence the previous full main games were all released on August 12-15ish.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 11:33:29 AM by Jimmy »
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK Legacy, HSiFS, WBaWC
Hard 1cc: IN, DDC, HSiFS
Extra clears: MoF, DDC, HSiFS, WBaWC

Goals: Going Extra Hard!

Drake

  • *
Something interesting I haven't seen noticed yet: Reimu's bonus options seem to be Aya's crows.



(https://twitter.com/drakeirving/status/855387104632811521)

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Zelinko

  • The Wandering Mind
To be honest though, I don't think that DDC has anything gameplay-wise that could be warranted as a truly intrusive gimmick aside the PoC-mechanic, which is actually a really simple and easy thing compared to especially UFO, TD and LoLK. The resource system there actually has IMO the most sustainable concept out of all games so far, meaning that the mechanic allows you to collect an indefinite amount of  lives and bombs. In the aforementioned three games, however, the special items from which you obtain said resources all have a definite amount which will actually limit resource gain, TD moreso than the others, considering that each subsequent extend requires more pink spirits which are already pretty sparse if you don't speedkill certain stage enemies. LoLK doesn't have any special items like UFO and TD did, but there's that grazing mechanic and the checkpoint system that make the gameplay unique and challenging.

I'm assuming that HSiFS will turn out similar like DDC, considering we all have a somewhat different interpretation of what "simple gameplay" is like. ZUN said that DDC was going to be simple game mechanic-wise, and compared to its predecessors it actually was. It may involve scoring as an essential way to gain resources like EoSD or MoF, or a PoC based mechanic like DDC. The gauge in the bottom left corner kinda reminds me of MoF's faith (PIV) meter, but in HSiFS the PIV is displayed with all other HUD elements so the gauge might involve something new.

Well with DDC you had to be extremely aggressive or you got nothing from the POC except maybe a random sympathy bomb fragment, which randomly might be a life frag if you're getting constant bomb fragments.  No clue if Marisa B's bomb actually gets you resources outside being a screen clear that does no damage (why does Zun love Zero Damage bombs so much lately) so I didn't use her. Most of the time you're perfectly fine in other games not rushing the POC If you're focusing on performing a fairy line clear (resources drop right on you so why rush.  Unless you've got a narrow shot then eh???)

I loathed being forced to pretty much pray I could DPS enough to not only clear a line but be able to almost instantly kill anything jumping from the top of screen when I tried to POC grab. If Zun only got rid of the kinda awful idea that every life up needed more and more fragments I think TD's system could have worked out far better. Of course with TD's difficulty level I always found it really easy to collect what spirits I wanted and because shot types actually had decent scaling it was kinda rare to have targets escape which carried frags.

The bottom left meter also kinda reminded me of the SA reception bar thing but that was just for points after all and really didn't do much for gameplay from what I saw.  If this is going for point extends maybe it'll matter but we'll need a gimmicky new pickup for it to work unless it's another Graze or get Nothing setup... Which is honestly an awful form of gimmick focused gameplay
This Space For Rent

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Well with DDC you had to be extremely aggressive or you got nothing from the POC except maybe a random sympathy bomb fragment, which randomly might be a life frag if you're getting constant bomb fragments.  No clue if Marisa B's bomb actually gets you resources outside being a screen clear that does no damage (why does Zun love Zero Damage bombs so much lately) so I didn't use her. Most of the time you're perfectly fine in other games not rushing the POC If you're focusing on performing a fairy line clear (resources drop right on you so why rush.  Unless you've got a narrow shot then eh???)

You can also get life fragments if the items you collect from going above the POC total 2.0, or if you just straight bomb when there's enough enemies on the screen. Lord knows I did that plenty of times.

As someone who normally plays Easy/Normal, I didn't find DDC Normal to be that hard, like at all. Seija was mind-boggling, sure, but riding that POC was actually the easiest part of the game for me. I think it's a stretch at best to call POC-for-item-collect a "gimmick", but even if we accept that it was, it's not like a totally out there and unprecedented aspect of a shmup to put in there.

Fortunately, there are loads of replays you can look up that'll attest to just how easy the POC thing is, and there's no shame in watching them to learn from them.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 01:16:23 PM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

I'd rather have a game going back to simplicity. I don't want a DDC style setup as that was just as heavily gimmick focused as UFO or TD. Just get us back to like EoSD/PCB/IN (just make sure the hitboxes ain't wonky like in EoSD).  I don't like the entire "YOU MUST BE HYPER AGGRESSIVE OR GET NOTHING" Mindset that LoLK and DDC really pushed.
But PCB and IN are just as heavy on the risk/reward gameplay as DDC... firstly, you have to PoC to get the extends, since they depend on number of items. Secondly, PCB gives you much more cherry for shooting unfocused, and to get borders at the right time you often have to plan them a long way in advance. IN has you shooting unfocused to gain time orbs, and often not shooting at all to wait for a good cancel.

Really, I like the fact that every game has its own unique gimmick; it's what makes them all different, and ensures that when I'm feeling frustrated with lack of progress in one game, I can have fun playing a different one. And each one tests and encourages me to improve a different aspect of play -- unfocused dodging, PoCing, grazing, timing and placing bombs (in MoF), etc. So I look forward to seeing what TH16 will have to offer :)

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
TD arguably had a great soundtrack. But I also loved DDC's. Especially Sukuna's theme. LoLK wasn't bad, it's just not very memorable.

For me, it was a combination of the songs themselves and the sound font used to make them. TD's sound font isn't as bad as that of DDC or LoLK, but it's not as good as UFO's, which wasn't as good as SA's.

For individual tracks themselves, though, there are a few in each game that are certainly good, but without the Hifuu CDs, Little Princess was literally the only song between the two games I could recall any part of without listening to it, and even that required forcing the OSt on myself a few times while at work. Everything else just...didn't stick. At all. Pristine Beat in particular was a massive disappointment in this regard given how highly it was being touted back in the day.

I imagine this is mostly a product of ZUN's musical tastes changing, so really, all I can reasonably hope for is a sound font that doesn't sound anything like anything after UFO.

(My comment was also generalized to the games on the whole - I love playing TD and feel like DDC and LoLK are outright chores - but that's a discussion for another thread.)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 01:26:40 PM by Suwako Moriya »
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Zelinko

  • The Wandering Mind
You can also get life fragments if the items you collect from going above the POC total 2.0, or if you just straight bomb when there's enough enemies on the screen. Lord knows I did that plenty of times.

As someone who normally plays Easy/Normal, I didn't find DDC Normal to be that hard, like at all. Seija was mind-boggling, sure, but riding that POC was actually the easiest part of the game for me. I think it's a stretch at best to call POC-for-item-collect a "gimmick", but even if we accept that it was, it's not like a totally out there and unprecedented aspect of a shmup to put in there.

Fortunately, there are loads of replays you can look up that'll attest to just how easy the POC thing is, and there's no shame in watching them to learn from them.

The problem is that this is horribly communicated in game.  You'll seemingly randomly get these low multiplier things around and there is no indication that the POC is at all related to this.  Explaining your gimmick in play goes a HUGE way to understanding it.  I just really hated how it was presented and how it interacted with gameplay. Also Seija's still just a textbook example of how to NOT make a boss in Touhou, bland patterns, the most cheap possible gimmick and just more enough it's ugly shots and patterns.  Stage 5s should have beauty Seija had... like If you took away the control screw gimmick those patterns would be expected from a Stage 1 Midboss!

And see my only danmaku type games I've ever played is Touhou and more and more I just find the gimmicks really lame.  Hell I forgot that Trance really is a gimmick because of how rarely I use it (9/10 times it's just because it's the death drain which gets a 'Oh hey that trance thing is a thing')

But PCB and IN are just as heavy on the risk/reward gameplay as DDC... firstly, you have to PoC to get the extends, since they depend on number of items. Secondly, PCB gives you much more cherry for shooting unfocused, and to get borders at the right time you often have to plan them a long way in advance. IN has you shooting unfocused to gain time orbs, and often not shooting at all to wait for a good cancel.

Really, I like the fact that every game has its own unique gimmick; it's what makes them all different, and ensures that when I'm feeling frustrated with lack of progress in one game, I can have fun playing a different one. And each one tests and encourages me to improve a different aspect of play -- unfocused dodging, PoCing, grazing, timing and placing bombs (in MoF), etc. So I look forward to seeing what TH16 will have to offer :)

See just running through PCB and IN I'm getting near the 999 tier at the end of game which tells me I've hit the par level for progression. 

PCB's basic stuff with the barrier itself is incredibly good at explaining itself in play.  You can figure out  get pink boxes and you get this Cherry Barrier that starts big and shrinks down.  You'll likely have it pop automatically and get the point bonus. This tells you that it's got a limited lifetime and give bonus points if it runs out.  Eventually you'll get hit while it's active and discover the second property of it. Get hit with it up. You live and screen is cleared!  The final aspect I'll admit I didn't even known for a long time and that's detonating it like a bomb.  That might be found out by panic bombing while it's up. Dunno

With the Time Units thing... does it do ANYTHING? No really I've never had TIME OVER in a run that I didn't use a continue on.  Is it a points thing? Because if it's only points (and number of last words Kaguya spams out at the end, which is just bonus points) then it's just utterly ignorable.

I kinda hate the gimmicks he's been pushing lately. It's just been a bunch of bad gimmicks in a row.  I shouldn't be punished for not grazing every single bullet like LoLK does (and they're ugly bullets too.  Why are LoLK's stages so ugly?)

For me, it was a combination of the songs themselves and the sound font used to make them. TD's sound font isn't as bad as that of DDC or LoLK, but it's not as good as UFO's, which wasn't as good as SA's.

For individual tracks themselves, though, there are a few in each game that are certainly good, but without the Hifuu CDs, Little Princess was literally the only song between the two games I could recall any part of without listening to it, and even that required forcing the OSt on myself a few times while at work. Everything else just...didn't stick. At all. Pristine Beat in particular was a massive disappointment in this regard given how highly it was being touted back in the day.

I imagine this is mostly a product of ZUN's musical tastes changing, so really, all I can reasonably hope for is a sound font that doesn't sound anything like anything after UFO.

(My comment was also generalized to the games on the whole - I love playing TD and feel like DDC and LoLK are outright chores - but that's a discussion for another thread.)

I hear you man.  Having to re-record LoLK's stage 1-2 like four times due to recorder and game fuckups (For some reason it kept doing strange things that just lead to the music of stage 1 just dragging on FOREVER while the game went to slide show mode) it was like kill me please.  I'm kinda in the same boat as I've tried to make my self listen through stuff like Doremy's theme and it's just... "This doesn't feel like a theme for someone like Doremy". It's a weird feeling about like how there is this weird disconnect in the times I've watched replay against her to look at her cards.  I can't figure it out.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 01:49:18 PM by Zelinko »
This Space For Rent

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
The problem is that this is horribly communicated in game.  You'll seemingly randomly get these low multiplier things around and there is no indication that the POC is at all related to this.  Explaining your gimmick in play goes a HUGE way to understanding it.

You know what else goes a huge way to understanding it? Reading the forums or the wiki and watching replays. I guess if you lived in a cabin with no internet access and the games were hand delivered to you, this complaint would make sense. All the information you need is not only there, it's trivially easy to access. Make use of it, it'll reduce all this stress by a long ways.

Really, I like the fact that every game has its own unique gimmick; it's what makes them all different, and ensures that when I'm feeling frustrated with lack of progress in one game, I can have fun playing a different one. And each one tests and encourages me to improve a different aspect of play -- unfocused dodging, PoCing, grazing, timing and placing bombs (in MoF), etc. So I look forward to seeing what TH16 will have to offer :)

This, a thousand times. Game after game of "dodg bulit shoot n bom" would get boring af really fast. Even Seija's spellcards, as maddening as they are, are at least relevant to Seija the character, and her whole aim of turning the established order on its head. That shows a tremendous amount of creativity and makes the games fun. I honestly do not understand why anyone would want to reduce Touhou to a very narrow set of parameters. But I guess for those folks, the option is always there to just ... stop playing Touhou I guess.

For me, it was a combination of the songs themselves and the sound font used to make them. TD's sound font isn't as bad as that of DDC or LoLK, but it's not as good as UFO's, which wasn't as good as SA's.

For individual tracks themselves, though, there are a few in each game that are certainly good, but without the Hifuu CDs, Little Princess was literally the only song between the two games I could recall any part of without listening to it, and even that required forcing the OSt on myself a few times while at work. Everything else just...didn't stick. At all. Pristine Beat in particular was a massive disappointment in this regard given how highly it was being touted back in the day.

I imagine this is mostly a product of ZUN's musical tastes changing, so really, all I can reasonably hope for is a sound font that doesn't sound anything like anything after UFO.

(My comment was also generalized to the games on the whole - I love playing TD and feel like DDC and LoLK are outright chores - but that's a discussion for another thread.)

Yeah have to agree with you about the music in a general sense. IN to my mind has the best soundtrack in the series, stage after stage. Not because of their technical expertise or bells and whistles but because the melodies are simply memorable and fit the mood of the stage. I'd really like a return to that.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 01:57:43 PM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

7TC7

  • In best company
Something interesting I haven't seen noticed yet: Reimu's bonus options seem to be Aya's crows.

http://i.imgur.com/1t5pI2A.png

(https://twitter.com/drakeirving/status/855387104632811521)

That would explain, why they shoot Aya's shots, at least.
< picture leads to my YouTube channel

It is true that, with zero prior knowledge or explanation, very few of the Touhou mechanics or extend/scoring systems are immediately intuitive. But that's a game design problem that's hit-or-miss in a lot of shmups.

A new player can only go so far without learning essential mechanics like grazing, PoC collection, unique gimmicks etc.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 02:08:33 PM by shockdude »
Playing Touhou since 18 March 2012. Playing video games since 19XX.
Normal 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS, CtC.
Extra 1CC: EoSD, PCB+Phantasm, IN, PoFV (K&S), MoF, SA, TD, HSiFS, CtC+Phantasm.
Hard 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, TD, CtC.
Lunatic 1CC: EoSD

cuc

  • *
  • Probably won't respond 'til this mess is sorted o?
Something interesting I haven't seen noticed yet: Reimu's bonus options seem to be Aya's crows.



(https://twitter.com/drakeirving/status/855387104632811521)
Someone I know said these bonus options are created by filling up the lower-left meter.

(Some data comparison they did.)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 02:10:13 PM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

Zelinko

  • The Wandering Mind
It is true that, with zero prior knowledge or explanation, very few of the Touhou mechanics or extend/scoring systems are immediately intuitive, especially when compared to other shmups.

It's something I've been appreciating more is how intuitive information giving can be kind of amazing.

Tengukami's argument might hold up more for stuff like Minecraft* (there ain't no documentation in game that even gives the slightest idea that something like a TNT cannon is even possible) but Touhou's not a game you can play with the wiki in your lap. And if the answer to all the problems is "Go to the Forum" or "Go to the Wiki" then you've kinda failed to explain your games mechanics.  The instructions that they give you in some of the newer games might help but pure text doesn't help that much in an extremely visual focused game like Touhou. 

I'll admit massively that a number of games I play are fucking AWFUL at explaining themselves and what various things mean.  Which is why so many people won't play it or won't enjoy it because of just how much out of game information is needed and how bad the bar of entry is for understanding mechanics is.

*I originally thought of Dwarf Fortress but that game is so difficult to figure out as a new player that it's pretty much mandatory to have the wiki open to do anything.

Edit:  At least newer games also point out POINT OF COLLECTION at the start of the  game which gives an idea but the gimmicks are often rather obtuse and that also makes it just not fun to learn.

Also actively grazing is not a needed skill... passive grazing is fine.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 02:12:47 PM by Zelinko »
This Space For Rent


Gray21oh

  • An excuse for a title
  • This is suppose to be nonsensical except it isn't
Someone I know said these bonus options are created by filling up the lower-left meter.

(Some data comparison they did.)


Huh. And here I am thinking it could relate to a team up mechanic. I suppose it would be pretty far fetched for the game to suddenly pull that out on someone though it's really something I really can't wait to see more action from.

Also a bit unrelated and late, I can't get over how Cirno is freakin' tanned.

Lt Colonel Summers

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • Do not mess with a soldier
I just noticed that Reimu's face in the title screen is the same as Junko's in-game portrait in LoLK, right down to that head tilt...

Looks like Reimu did bring something back with her from the moon...
There's nothing inscribed on the dog tag...

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Someone I know said these bonus options are created by filling up the lower-left meter.

(Some data comparison they did.)


Ah, this is shaping up to be really interesting. I like how the fandom seems to work out so many of the details before the trial version is even out!


"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Jimmy

  • Shameless spender
  • gaining big pounds
I kinda hate the gimmicks he's been pushing lately. It's just been a bunch of bad gimmicks in a row.  I shouldn't be punished for not grazing every single bullet like LoLK does (and they're ugly bullets too.  Why are LoLK's stages so ugly?)
Well, I can't imagine that 16 main games with the absolutely same and most basic mechanics without any specialties regarding a game's plot or an individual character's abilities and personality are something that would have built up such a considerable fan community and inspire so many derivative works, of which one you're even playing.

I won't debate your general opinion, but in all honesty, I don't think that it would be any fun from a long-term perspective if all main games were absolutely identical mechanic-wise.

It's something I've been appreciating more is how intuitive information giving can be kind of amazing.

Tengukami's argument might hold up more for stuff like Minecraft* (there ain't no documentation in game that even gives the slightest idea that something like a TNT cannon is even possible) but Touhou's not a game you can play with the wiki in your lap. And if the answer to all the problems is "Go to the Forum" or "Go to the Wiki" then you've kinda failed to explain your games mechanics.  The instructions that they give you in some of the newer games might help but pure text doesn't help that much in an extremely visual focused game like Touhou. 

I'll admit massively that a number of games I play are fucking AWFUL at explaining themselves and what various things mean.  Which is why so many people won't play it or won't enjoy it because of just how much out of game information is needed and how bad the bar of entry is for understanding mechanics is.

Edit:  At least newer games also point out POINT OF COLLECTION at the start of the  game which gives an idea but the gimmicks are often rather obtuse and that also makes it just not fun to learn.

Also actively grazing is not a needed skill... passive grazing is fine.
Either you gotta figure them out yourselves or get help from more experienced people. The Touhou Wiki actually has plenty of explanation about the gameplay of each main game. Explanations can actually helpful if you understand and try them out. Honestly now, figuring out a game's mechanics is part of playing it, and the Touhou shmups belong to the simpler games that exist out there. The more you play a game, the more you'll know about its respective mechanics and gimmicks. Blaming the game's mechanics if you lack patience and motivation to learn it is..., well, I hate to say it, really pathetic. Just stop playing them if they're not fun for you.

I just noticed that Reimu's face in the title screen is the same as Junko's in-game portrait in LoLK, right down to that head tilt...

Looks like Reimu did bring something back with her from the moon...
I've been thinking this as well. The adventure to Junko seems to have left its marks on her.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 02:37:09 PM by Jimmy »
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK Legacy, HSiFS, WBaWC
Hard 1cc: IN, DDC, HSiFS
Extra clears: MoF, DDC, HSiFS, WBaWC

Goals: Going Extra Hard!

game2011

  • mineiptXD
    • Supreme ??asual Dating Verified Women
The majority of people would rather receive everything for free. This isn't relevant. Comparing it to a movie trailer would only be valid if trailers were like the first half of the movie.

I mean, just wait for the full version and buy it I guess. This is such a weird, entitled complaint.
Wow, people want to not pay for things. Good for them?
First off, I am NOT complaining.  Please refrain from jumping to conclusions.  I hate it when people do that or misunderstand me.

Second, if people can get a good deal out of paying, then they are willing to do so.  If you go to the grocery and come across a food sample, will you still want to try it out if you must pay just to taste one?  Paying as little as possible sounds nice, but if the quality is low as a result of the cheap price, then it's more worth it to buy the more expensive one instead, as the quality and quantity make up for it.

Well, I can't imagine that 16 main games with the absolutely same and most basic mechanics without any specialties regarding a game's plot or an individual character's abilities and personality are something that would have built up such a considerable fan community and inspire so many derivative works, of which one you're even playing.

I won't debate your general opinion, but in all honesty, I don't think that it would be any fun from a long-term perspective if all main games were absolutely identical mechanic-wise.
That is why you cannot satisfy anyone with gameplay mechanics.  Make something new, and people will complain that you are ruining a good thing that doesn't need to be change.  Make no changes, and some other will complain that you are being unoriginal and lack innovation.

Personally, adding new mechanics and gimmicks is a good thing in order to make things fresh.  As similar as 2D Mario games are, each of them still throw in a couple of new mechanics in order to offer new gameplay experiences.

And what gimmick did DDC have?  That game is very straightforward from what I've played.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 02:31:14 PM by game2011 »

cuc

  • *
  • Probably won't respond 'til this mess is sorted o?
Addenum to the previous post:

Zhang can also be another ancient Chinese artifact: the handle of a jade ladle, used to pour a sacrificial wine on the ground. However these things are all too old for us to know how exactly they were used. For all we know, the handle and the scepter may be one and the same.

Itsuari further suggests this can potentially connect the story to a currently ongoing plot thread in Touhou: the Gensokyoan mythology of the Big Dipper as the ultimate youkai - a heavenly dragon, threatening to swallow the light of Polaris.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 02:46:17 PM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

Zelinko

  • The Wandering Mind
These games come with a manual...

Which is in Japanese...

----------

I'd be fine with the mechanics staying the same.  Outside the smoothing out some odd problems of how PoC worked and some bad hitboxes along the problem of the games having a bad habit of needing Vsynch patches or running wild to use full CPU power.

And DDC's gimmick was the get giant blob of stuff by PoC or get nothing resource gimmick.

Either you gotta figure them out yourselves or get help from more experienced people. The Touhou Wiki actually has plenty of explanation about the gameplay of each main game. Explanations can actually helpful if you understand and try them out. Honestly now, figuring out a game's mechanics is part of playing it, and the Touhou shmups belong to the simpler games that exist out there. The more you play a game, the more you'll know about its respective mechanics and gimmicks. Blaming the game's mechanics if you lack patience and motivation to learn it is..., well, I hate to say it, really pathetic. Just stop playing them if they're not fun for you.

If your mechanics are so bad that there is NO incentive to play or learn then it IS the fault of the game for being extremely poor at explaining itself or being new player friendly enough to have them want to show up again.   And the wiki's often are not helpful at fully helping to explain itself. 

« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 02:41:24 PM by Zelinko »
This Space For Rent

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Which is in Japanese...

Well, yes, since the primary language of the game's intended audience is Japanese.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Zelinko

  • The Wandering Mind
Well, yes, since the primary language of the game's intended audience is Japanese.

Indeed and that tends to not get translated.
This Space For Rent

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

And the in-game manual is usually translated and added to thcrap shortly after the trial versions are released.

Zelinko

  • The Wandering Mind
And the in-game manual is usually translated and added to thcrap shortly after the trial versions are released.
See Thcrap is something that's an ipsec nightmare (seriously javascript injectors is just a massive NO) so I don't touch it. If they ever made real translation patches anymore...
This Space For Rent


Zelinko

  • The Wandering Mind
jeez you've got an excuse for everything

It's not an excuse when it's a fact that thcrap is garbage.
This Space For Rent

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
So, uh, just to be clear, it's not that the games have failed to explain their mechanics, it's that everyone along the way have done the best they can and provided translations in multiple locations and your personal preferences simply don't like any of those locations? o_O

I mean, if that's the case, then okay, you do you, but that seems like good enough motivation for someone like you to work on a static translation patch. If it's not the case, though, then I'm genuinely confused as to what you're trying to get at here.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 03:03:55 PM by Suwako Moriya »
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Jimmy

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I'd be fine with the mechanics staying the same.

If your mechanics are so bad that there is NO incentive to play or learn then it IS the fault of the game for being extremely poor at explaining itself or being new player friendly enough to have them want to show up again.   And the wiki's often are not helpful at fully helping to explain itself.
If the game's mechanics are as bad as you're claiming, then no one would've bothered playing it in the first place, which clearly is not the case if you go to sites like YouTube. Easy mode and stage practice exist for reasons.
The Wiki does provide elaborate explanations on each game's mechanics. The only conclusion I could draw here is that you either don't really bother reading them at all or are hesitating too much to try them out in the respective game. Each game explains its mechanics to you through playing it, and if you don't do that, it's no wonder that you're complaining so much about them being too complex. It is none of the game's fault if you don't have the motivation to actively practice and understand them.

See Thcrap is something that's an ipsec nightmare (seriously javascript injectors is just a massive NO) so I don't touch it. If they ever made real translation patches anymore...
THcrap is a translation patch too. That's a fact. Only difference is that it is continuously updated with revised translations.

It's not an excuse when it's a fact that thcrap is garbage.
That's what you think. Otherwise no one would use that as well, which is also not the case.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 03:03:03 PM by Jimmy »
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK Legacy, HSiFS, WBaWC
Hard 1cc: IN, DDC, HSiFS
Extra clears: MoF, DDC, HSiFS, WBaWC

Goals: Going Extra Hard!

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
jeez you've got an excuse for everything

The Wiki does provide elaborate explanations on each game's mechanics. The only conclusion I could draw here is that you either don't really bother reading them at all or are hesitating too much to try them out in the respective game. Each game explains its mechanics to you through playing it, and if you don't do that, it's no wonder that you're complaining so much about them being too complex. It is none of the game's fault if you don't have the motivation to actively practice and understand them.

dingdingding

So, uh, just to be clear, it's not that the games have failed to explain their mechanics, it's that everyone along the way have done the best they can and provided translations in multiple locations and your personal preferences simply don't like any of those locations? o_O

I mean, if that's the case, then okay, you do you, but that seems like good enough motivation for someone like you to work on a static translation patch. If it's not the case, though, then I'm genuinely confused as to what you're trying to get at here.

You can also completely disable the online aspect of thcrap once you translate the game, rendering the patch static.

I think we're done chasing the ever-moving goalposts here.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."