Author Topic: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be  (Read 26077 times)

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2017, 06:03:22 PM »
If you know what you're doing you might be able to 100% Confidants. There's really only one thing keeping you from 100%ing it first playthrough (PX please correct me):
Spoiler:
you can only duel Justine and Caroline during a NG+.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2017, 06:04:34 PM »
Oh, I suppose that's fair.
Spoiler:
That's how it was in 3 and 4 anyway, right? Fighting the Velvet Room assistants in NG+ only, that is.

commandercool

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2017, 06:08:31 PM »
I'm pretty sure I've already ruined any chance I may have had to get 100% confidants on the first run. There were a few small but helpful mechanics I didn't find out about until relatively late (the plant, the juice bar), there's a social link I should have rushed earlier
Spoiler:
(the fortune teller)
and I've already had one evening where I had no social links to do because I cleared all of the ones available on that day already, and that should only get worse as the game goes along.

On the other hand,
Spoiler:
this is a game where you can just outright date the adult characters, too. It was hard to turn Kawakami down, because she's probably one of my new favorite NPC social links in the entire Persona series so far
.

I'm
Spoiler:
dating Kawakami, and it's great. It's such a sweet relationship and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling even though it's super illegal and immoral. But that just makes it BETTER!

The only other romance I would be sort of tempted by is Haru, I do like her a lot so far. She has the coolest metaverse outfit, weapon, and persona for my taste and I like her whole arc so far.
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PX

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2017, 06:13:01 PM »
Spoiler:
Fusing Sataneal is also NG+ only, although I'm not sure if he counts as part of the compendium

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2017, 06:47:38 PM »
By the by, am I the only idiot that didn't realize you could swap out characters at any time, and not just in safe rooms?

Teewee

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2017, 08:01:52 PM »
I found a plot hole. Remember how Morgana said
Spoiler:
Persona users can't have palaces because they can't have cognitive distortions, and that they have perfect control over their feelings?
The Social Links totally contradict that, since
Spoiler:
having cognitive distortions is perfectly normal, whether you're sick in the head or not.
. I mean, otherwise, the player characters would all have rather sage-like personalities, and we all know thats not the case. For example, in Yusuke's link,
Spoiler:
he falls victim to the cognitive distortion known as all-or-nothing thinking, where making one or a few mistakes makes you think of yourself as a total failure.

My source? Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, by David D. Burns, MD. Seems the writers didn't really do their research :/


commandercool

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2017, 08:46:20 PM »
That's kind of in line with some questions I have about how the universe works, but I'll refrain from asking them until I've seen the whole story.

This is all wild speculation, but
Spoiler:
my best guess is that the point isn't that persona users can't have cognitive distortions, just that they don't have shadows. If they were to become distorted then it would be reflected in their personas, and having a palace requires having a shadow, which they just don't. I don't think it's shadows that cause distortions, but distortions that reflect on shadows. The distortion can still exist, but the medium it's reflected in is different.

I don't remember Morgana ever literally saying "persona users can't become distorted", just "we'll never find your shadows in the metaverse because they don't exist there anymore". Maybe you're referring to something I haven't seen yet, or maybe I'm just forgetting something important.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Mr. Sacchi

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2017, 10:40:57 PM »
100% Confidants is perfectly doable on a first playthrough, however it is incredibly hard due to some RNG on tool crafting and the fact that clearing palaces in 1 day on a first playthrough requires some SERIOUS resource management, even with SP Adhesive 3.

commandercool

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2017, 10:43:24 PM »
The only palaces I didn't clear in the minimum number of days were the first and second. I used a TON of items on the third, but I don't regret it because
Spoiler:
SP adhesive makes dungeons super super easy.
That's on normal though, I don't know if you're assuming harder difficulties. Although that is with Arsene as my only persona for the entire game.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Mr. Sacchi

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2017, 10:49:23 PM »
I was using a slightly gimped party and was fighting everything in sight due to concerns over being underleveled, that said I've run into similar problems even when not doing so - resource management is sort of a big deal when doing palaces with as little time alloted to it as possible.

It's also one of the reasons I found the Devil Confidant to be surprisingly useful, especially when paired with the Star Confidant. Ambushing an enemy and running away immediately for only a 2% increase in security level means that I get 5 free procs of SP Adhesive 3 before having to ambush something and kill it.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2017, 11:46:52 PM »
Regarding Persona Users and Cognitive Distortions and Shadows:
(Note: this is my interpretation and may not be entirely adherent to canon due to my spotty memory of earlier Persona games and the fact that I haven't completed 5 yet)
Spoiler:
I think I see it more as the fact that Persona users CAN have cognitive distortions-- and we get an in-game example in Futaba. Even after her awakening to her Persona, she still had to face her cognitive distortion-- the monstrosity of a mother that she was led to believe in because of the way she was treated after her death (I don't know all the details on how she died yet, so don't spoil me on that yo). But either way, it's something she had to face and defeat in order to spur her growth and forward mobility as a person.

And it's also not that Persona users don't have Shadows, either. If a Shadow is meant to represent the inner self-- repressed feelings and deep unspoken desires and traumatic memories, etc, then it would only follow that a Persona is a Shadow that one has gained understanding and control over. Look at Persona 4, where facing one's Shadow, their true self, is the key to awakening their Persona. In P5's case, it's less about facing oneself and more about the growth of resistance and strength in the face of adversity, but it's still not entirely disconnected, either, as it's a stance against one's fears and fighting back rather than giving in.

So in short, I feel that Personas are Shadows that a User has gained control over-- and the more they grow as a person and gain more control over their Shadow, the stronger their Personas become. It isn't that they suddenly become immune to Cognitive Distortions, because ANYONE can have those, regardless of how strong they are or how much control they have over their inner true selves, but they are also less likely to have them due to that mental and emotional fortitude. I agree that you wouldn't find a Persona User's Shadow in Mementos or a Palace, because their Shadow is their Persona that they carry with them and have control over.

P4 Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Though... that does kind of make Adachi kind of an interesting case, because can we really say he faced his true self? Or was it because he embraced his Shadow that he awoke to Magatsu Izanagi as his Persona, but one that remained a Shadow? I dunno.

Am I completely off base on this, or does that make sense?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 11:57:13 PM by Matsuri »

commandercool

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2017, 12:00:19 AM »
Regarding Persona Users and Cognitive Distortions and Shadows:
(Note: this is my interpretation and may not be entirely adherent to canon due to my spotty memory of earlier Persona games and the fact that I haven't completed 5 yet)
Spoiler:
I think I see it more as the fact that Persona users CAN have cognitive distortions-- and we get an in-game example in Futaba. Even after her awakening to her Persona, she still had to face her cognitive distortion-- the monstrosity of a mother that she was led to believe in because of the way she was treated after her death (I don't know all the details on how she died yet, so don't spoil me on that yo). But either way, it's something she had to face and defeat in order to spur her growth and forward mobility as a person.

And it's also not that Persona users don't have Shadows, either. If a Shadow is meant to represent the inner self-- repressed feelings and deep unspoken desires and traumatic memories, etc, then it would only follow that a Persona is a Shadow that one has gained understanding and control over. Look at Persona 4, where facing one's Shadow, their true self, is the key to awakening their Persona. In P5's case, it's less about facing oneself and more about the growth of resistance and strength in the face of adversity, but it's still not entirely disconnected, either, as it's a stance against one's fears and fighting back rather than giving in.

So in short, I feel that Personas are Shadows that a User has gained control over-- and the more they grow as a person and gain more control over their Shadow, the stronger their Personas become. It isn't that they suddenly become immune to Cognitive Distortions, because ANYONE can have those, regardless of how strong they are or how much control they have over their inner true selves, but they are also less likely to have them due to that mental and emotional fortitude. I agree that you wouldn't find a Persona User's Shadow in Mementos or a Palace, because their Shadow is their Persona that they carry with them and have control over.

P4 Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Though... that does kind of make Adachi kind of an interesting case, because can we really say he faced his true self? Or was it because he embraced his Shadow that he awoke to Magatsu Izanagi as his Persona, but one that remained a Shadow? I dunno.

Am I completely off base on this, or does that make sense?

Spoiler:
Right, personas ARE shadows that the owner has gained control over. Or, in this case, seemingly shadows that have agreed to help their owners by becoming personas.

In Persona 4 the key to awakening your persona was to accept the worst parts of yourself. So presumably when Adachi met his shadow it was like "You're a maniac" and he was like "Yup, I sure am". He faced his true self, but unlike the rest of the cast he didn't use that insight to change himself for the better.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2017, 12:36:56 AM »

Spoiler:
So in short, I feel that Personas are Shadows that a User has gained control over-- and the more they grow as a person and gain more control over their Shadow, the stronger their Personas become. It isn't that they suddenly become immune to Cognitive Distortions, because ANYONE can have those, regardless of how strong they are or how much control they have over their inner true selves, but they are also less likely to have them due to that mental and emotional fortitude. I agree that you wouldn't find a Persona User's Shadow in Mementos or a Palace, because their Shadow is their Persona that they carry with them and have control over.
There's a reason why
Spoiler:
Everyone has yellow eyes as they summon their Personas for the first time. You're pretty spot on.

commandercool

  • alter cool
Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #73 on: April 30, 2017, 02:56:30 AM »
Am I crazy, or does Persona 5 kind of read as a
Spoiler:
Trump allegory
? Like, in a few different places.

Spoiler:
The first one is Okumura, who is probably just supposed to be an archetypal greedy businessman, but the way people idolized him as a celebrity CEO and read his books and stuff rang of Trump, as did his political aspirations. The game's development would have obviously predated the 2016 election I would have thought, but it seemed eerily similar in retrospect.

Then, later on, Shido's rhetoric is surprisingly Trump-like in a few ways, although I don't think his platform probably quite is. Does anyone know if he's supposed to be a reference to a specific person or movement in Japan?

This is most likely all coincidence, it would be pretty weird for such a Japanese game to take thematic cues from American figures to that great of a degree, but I couldn't help but keep thinking that it kind of felt like that throughout.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2017, 04:22:47 AM »
Spoiler:
For the most part I would assume that the resemblance to Trump is a huge coincidence, which is part of the reason why they had that thing at the very beginning of the game. That said, Trump isn't an outlier: Japan has its fair share of corrupt CEOs and businessmen, and has had a long history of right wing authoritarianism and nationalism. I imagine that, during the bubble burst of the late 80s and early 90s, Japanese politics had their fair share of "Make Japan Great Again" rhetoric. I would assume that ATLUS were thinking about those characters rather than our own national embarrassment in mind when they were writing the script for P5.

commandercool

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2017, 04:41:51 AM »
I felt so bad about
Spoiler:
turning down Haru's romance offer. I really like her and I found her social link to be touching. Definitely my second favorite romance option and my third favorite social link in P5 after Kawakami and Yoshida.

I think I'm really in the home stretch here.
Spoiler:
11/30. Just trying to top off Futaba and a few other social links and I'll be good to go.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2017, 06:11:04 AM »
I accidentally got into a romance with
Spoiler:
Ann, so I guess I'll be seeing what the cheater's valentine event is like oops

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #77 on: April 30, 2017, 12:55:08 PM »
I accidentally got into a romance with
Spoiler:
Ann, so I guess I'll be seeing what the cheater's valentine event is like oops
You couldn't just reload a save?

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #78 on: April 30, 2017, 01:33:19 PM »
It was during a huge plot portion of the game (right after 5th dungeon) so I would have lost like 3 hours of progress lol


Teewee

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #79 on: April 30, 2017, 06:22:13 PM »
I'm pretty sure that Morgana said that
Spoiler:
Persona users has perfect control over their emotions, sometime during the explanation of why Persona users can't have palaces. Or not long after.
I could be wrong, though. I'll go post the source when/if I find one.

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #80 on: April 30, 2017, 06:27:20 PM »
I'm pretty sure that Morgana said that
Spoiler:
Persona users has perfect control over their emotions, sometime during the explanation of why Persona users can't have palaces. Or not long after.
I could be wrong, though. I'll go post the source when/if I find one.


Spoiler:
I don't think it's perfect but they're not ruled by them. The games seem to go out of their way to show the Persona users being afflicted by a negative emotion and then recovering quickly. Maybe the wildcard user has perfect control?

commandercool

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2017, 04:53:50 PM »
Ew,
Spoiler:
Mara
looks super gross with modern graphics. I don't even have a
Spoiler:
dick
aversion, but I hate looking at it...
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Lt Streko

  • Gates of Yukari
Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2017, 05:10:49 PM »
Ew,
Spoiler:
Mara
looks super gross with modern graphics. I don't even have a
Spoiler:
dick
aversion, but I hate looking at it...

I tried insta killing it so I wouldn't have to look at it with Die for Me! forgetting
Spoiler:
it has repel curse
. Easily the most horrifying thing I've fought in a video game.
Uwaaaa~

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2017, 08:03:49 PM »
I tried insta killing it so I wouldn't have to look at it with Die for Me! forgetting
Spoiler:
it has repel curse
. Easily the most horrifying thing I've fought in a video game.

Spoiler:
death by dick chariot lmao

I really need to get back into playing this. Had a few things come up that have been keeping me from relaxing in the evenings, so I hope to get that ball rolling again tonight.

commandercool

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2017, 11:15:09 PM »
So wait, is Sojiro
Spoiler:
Futaba's biological father, or not? He isn't, right? I keep flip-flopping on how the game seems to be treating their relationship.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Mr. Sacchi

  • All shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
  • Not postponed. Not in the end. Not for long.
Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #85 on: May 04, 2017, 12:07:39 AM »
So wait, is Sojiro
Spoiler:
Futaba's biological father, or not? He isn't, right? I keep flip-flopping on how the game seems to be treating their relationship.

Spoiler:
He's not, but he is a friend of her mother that ended up getting custody of her because the father was absent her whole life.

commandercool

  • alter cool
Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #86 on: May 04, 2017, 12:30:05 AM »
Spoiler:
He's not, but he is a friend of her mother that ended up getting custody of her because the father was absent her whole life.

Spoiler:
Right, I remember he said that, but I wasn't sure if it was true or not. I guess there's no reason to assume it isn't, but little bits of phrasing here and there had me questioning it.

Unrelated and regarding the very lategame:

Spoiler:
Last dungeon kind of ambushed me. I was ONE DAY short of finishing both Futaba and Sojiro's social links, and I didn't really get a chance to spend all of the rest of my money. I can probably make use of it buying personas to fill out my compendium, but I still wish I had realized there was a seeming point of no return where there is.

In fact that kind of happens twice, but I meant to fight The Reaper before entering the last area (I kind of assumed there would be more floors of traditional Mementos, and the game doesn't let you back out once you look at the gate to the depths). Oh well.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #87 on: May 04, 2017, 11:06:04 AM »
Spoiler:
In fact that kind of happens twice, but I meant to fight The Reaper before entering the last area (I kind of assumed there would be more floors of traditional Mementos, and the game doesn't let you back out once you look at the gate to the depths). Oh well.
Spoiler:
You can walk back out of the depths and go back into Mementos or go visit Tae or Iwai. There's a point that you won't be able to do so for the rest of the game, but the game will ask you if you're sure you want to proceed.

commandercool

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Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #88 on: May 04, 2017, 04:00:05 PM »
Spoiler:
Wait, really? So the part where the game says "This door is one-way and closes behind us" was a lie? Or did I misunderstand it? Well, good, I guess.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Persona 5: As swag as you'll never be
« Reply #89 on: May 04, 2017, 04:06:50 PM »
Spoiler:
Wait, really? So the part where the game says "This door is one-way and closes behind us" was a lie? Or did I misunderstand it? Well, good, I guess.
Spoiler:
I was confused about that as well, but I think that might have been a slight flub in the translation, and they meant that Shadows couldn't open the door once they were inside.