Author Topic: Danmaku!! @ Comiket Day 1 (Friday) East Hall Ra 59-a  (Read 21147 times)

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2017, 02:30:25 PM »
Small as the chance is, you can topdeck into a 1up

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2017, 09:45:23 PM »
Card refinement complete(I hope).





Any thoughts about these cards?
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ShadowNCS

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2017, 02:10:56 PM »
Komachi
I still hate her Spell Card. The player chosen by your Spell Card may just as well leave the game immediately as they are likely to die with nothing they can do about it, just because Komachi's player says so. This is not fun to play against. The only thing you can do is kill Komachi before she gets a turn in to prevent this from happening, and that is unfun for the Komachi player.
So, in total, Komachi is a lose/lose situation.
If she's dead on turn one, their player is frustrated. If she survives and uses a Spell Card, whoever is hit by it is frustrated because they lost the game with no chance to do anything.
(Of course, the other players don't HAVE to attack a person that's easily killable and in range of everyone. But if you don't know who to target, might as well kill them and see what they are, right? And from playing with my group, it's a common tactic to pick on the weak to see who your partners in this current game are.)

How about doing something like this:
Passive: You can hold up to 7 cards in your hand.
Spell Card:
Until the start of your next turn, every player is considered in range, ignoring distance modifiers.
Until the start of your next turn, whenever any player dies, the user of this Spell Card may take up to 2 of the defeated player's items and hand cards.


I didn't think much about this one, but by making Komachi's Spell Card bring everybody into range of everyone, that means that you have a choice to attack whoever you want and work on your own objective (if you can already figure out who you need to attack) rather than following Komachi's whims. Also, Komachi, too, is now in range of everyone, making this Spell Card into a risk for herself, but given how powerful it is, it MUST be riskier than general cards.
I also put her passive of drawing cards into her Spell Card, as this might incentivise players NOT to kill others while this effect is active as to not give Komachi more means to achieve her own objective. They can still weaken other players, however, and then decide to finish them off once the Spell Card has worn off... given they live long enough to do so.
The thing is, though, that now EVERYONE is involved (including Komachi), and not one person is picked on to die.
I also gave Komachi a static 7 card hand size because otherwise, her passive would be a little unspectacular, and because I didn't spend enough time with this to think of something else proper.



Koishi
What was so bad about the original Koishi that you felt you needed to make your own version (just curious)?

As things stand, though, your Koishi is no fun to play against.
Her passive makes you waste a card whenever you attack her, quickly draining you of your resources, and there is nothing you can do against it. And if she dodges, you just used 2 card (or maybe even more to extend your range) for nothing.

As for her Spell Card... no. Just no.
One big part of this game is to keep your hand a secret, so your opponents do not know what you may do on your turn, or on others' turns with reaction cards.
If everybody has to reveal their hands, you know what will happen?
"Oh, I see player X has no evasion cards. They are a perfect target as they cannot evade any of my attacks." Any player not having any cards to defend themselves are basically dead from this moment onward.
You cannot give this much power to the board. And even if only YOU were to see everyone's hands, not only would this be incredibly time consuming, but even just ONE character knowing the hands of EVERYONE is way too powerful, as you can plan ahead with 100% certainty.
ADDITIONALLY, you have the chance to attack multiple players. ADDITIONALLY, the attack can only be canceled, but not dodged. This Spell Card is busted on so many levels, unfun and possibly time consuming.
(Its only problem is that you cannot target it, but as soon as you are the EX Boss or the Heroine, you don't really care about this. Although you CAN still somewhat target players (especially the heroine) who have a bigger hand size, as they are more likely to have these cards that makes you attack them.)
Even if everyone just had to count the cards of these given types and tell you how many they had (working on trust rather than proof), it would take too long and still be too powerful due to attacking multiple people (possibly) and being undodgeable.



Yuyuko
Your Yuyuko has the exact opposite problem of the actual one. With the actual one, people want to see her dead before she makes too much use of her Spell Card and before anyone drops to one HP, as you are basically dead at that point.
Until that point, the official Yuyuko is actually pretty tame (except for her Spell Card, but since it targets everybody, it is likely to be canceled, kind of soft balancing its power level by itself.)

With your Yuyuko, nobody wants to attack her as long as she has 2 or more cards in her hand (and not dodged something already).
If she could merely counterattack, that would be one thing, but her saying "How dare you puny mortal attacking me?! *PING* LOSE ONE LIFE! No matter what!" That's just something nobody wants to deal with.

As for her Spell Card... it's just Spear the Gungnir. Except it can be canceled, I just realized. It's still powerful, as you can only cancel the attack to save your life. Such an effect is even more so in your Yuyuko's case than in Remilia's, because you can deal heavy damage even due to your passive, whereas Remilia can "merely" extend her life by possibly drawing into more evasion upon dodging.

In conclusion, not a character I would want to play against, as, even when she is on the defensive, she has a way better offensive than most other characters, AND has a powerful Spell Card to boot.



Guya
Her passive reminds me of Remilia, except you only get card draw when playing as a team mate.
I think this character is actually fairly balanced, since she needs a partner in order to work, so even if her stuff is a bit more powerful (which I think it is, but I'm not entirely certain on that), without a team mate, she is entirely useless.
... and considering Eirin is mostly ever only used for her healing and Futo and Miko are some of the least used characters (in our group, anyway), I don't know how much play your Teruyo would see.
But she does seem the most balanced out of all the characters presented here.



That said, I wondered how you can make an item based Teruyo work, like you wanted to in the beginning.
This is what I came up with.

Passive: Whenever you lose an item card in play, you may draw a card.
Spell Card:
Choose a player in range. You may attack this player.
If you have a Power Up card in play, you may instead choose a player regardless of range.
If you have a Defense card in play, you may trash any one item the chosen player has in play.
If you have an Artifact card in play, this Spell Card cannot be canceled.


Build your own Spell Card! xD
Basically, if you have all the pieces, it is powerful, but if you don't, it's merely an attack. Also, note that with an artifact, while the Spell Card cannot be canceled, it can still be dodged. If you think that cancel should be the be all, end all means of negating damage and should always be more useful that a dodge, than you can easily change it to "cannot be evaded". Or you can replace it/ not use this entire Spell Card entirely. :D
Not sure how balanced it is, given the unreliable nature of the Spell Card, but it seems interesting, at least. Then again, I made it, so of course I would say that of my own mechanic. ^^;
Though I wonder if such a mechanic would actually work in Danmaku!! (which is pretty much my reason why I presented this version of Kaguya here, even though Kirin's version seems okay to me now).

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2017, 04:02:06 PM »
And as always, I do appreciate the C&C, NCS. Let's go over this card by card.

Quote
Komachi

After reading on why she would be no fun, I honestly can't disagree with you there.

Quote
Passive: You can hold up to 7 cards in your hand.
Spell Card:
Until the start of your next turn, every player is considered in range, ignoring distance modifiers.
Until the start of your next turn, whenever any player dies, the user of this Spell Card may take up to 2 of the defeated player's items and hand cards.

...I actually do like this. Granted, I didn't really think that her spellcard was that bad before you pointed it out to me, so I gather that I'm simply a bad judge of what's powerful and what isn't.

Also, Komachi having half of Patchouli's passive sounds fine to me.

Quote
Koishi

First off, the reason I wanted to make a new card is because copying is Satori's gimmick, not Koishi's, and negating stuff doesn't sound like a Koishi sort of thing either. You could say that I wanted to make a card that matches her thematically.

Okay, about her passive, it says "directly chosen" as a target. meaning that any attack that does not directly let you choose who to hit will ignore the passive.

Flandre's spellcard, for example, can hit Koishi if she targets the character next to Koishi, as the "hit each player next to your target" part of the attack is not a direct choice and thus does not trigger the passive.

There are many other spellcards that can ingore Koishi's passive, but I just realized that I'm using character spellcards to justify a passive, which is a red flag to begin with... *sigh*

As for her spellcard, I have once again failed in understanding what is powerful and what isn't. I was trying to make an attack that you can't directly control the targeting of, as Koishi tends to be a bit on the random side. Still, if revealing hands is a OP ability, then...

---

Character Card
Koishi Komeiji

Passive
Once per round, when you are attacked, you may avoid that attack.

Spellcard
Response "Youkai Polygraph"
Choose Danmaku, Dodge, Invocation, or Item cards. Until the beginning of your next turn, if any player other than you plays a card of the chosen type, attack that player, regardless of range.

---

Is this better, or is it still OP?

Quote
Yuyuko

Once again I have misjudged the power of the passive. Would it be weaker if she needed a Danmaku card to do it?

No matter, I'll revise her...

---

Character Card
Yuyuko Saigyouji

Passive
Once per round, when a player is hit with Yuyuko's attack, you may force that player to trash one Item card that they have in play.

Spellcard
Lifespan "Ticket to the Ageless Land"
Choose a target in range. That target loses one life. (This is not considered an attack.)

---

A new passive(a weaker version of Flandre's passive) and a nerf to the spellcard(respects range). That should be enough, I hope.


Quote
Kaguya

First off, I'm glad to see that she's actually okay now. That said...


Quote
Passive: Whenever you lose an item card in play, you may draw a card.
Spell Card:
Choose a player in range. You may attack this player.
If you have a Power Up card in play, you may instead choose a player regardless of range.
If you have a Defense card in play, you may trash any one item the chosen player has in play.
If you have an Artifact card in play, this Spell Card cannot be canceled.

Okay, the thing about this is that Supernatural Border activates two out of three powers of this spellcard, so a Kaguya player is REALLY going to want to get one of those. Granted it's not a common card, so it's not the most reliable sort of thing, but it means that Kaguya is going to be a serious threat if she does get one, and Supernatural Border is the better of the two Defense cards in the standard deck, so...

Still, I do agree that it's interesting. I would ask for a second opinion on it, though, as I'm not the best person in terms of figuring what is and isn't OP...

Quote
Momiji

You haven't said anything about Momiji. Is she OP, or is she ok? I wrote in that her card is a reaction spellcard(I don't have the means to put in the Reaction symbol in the appropriate place), but it's a strong card, inflicting 2 damage on hit. Although maybe I should write the second part as "If there is no attacker, choose a player in range to attack for 2 damage."?
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ShadowNCS

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2017, 04:56:01 PM »
First off, the reason I wanted to make a new card is because copying is Satori's gimmick, not Koishi's, and negating stuff doesn't sound like a Koishi sort of thing either. You could say that I wanted to make a card that matches her thematically.
Seems fair enough. I personally like that official Koishi's passive is a spin of Satori's passive, as they are siblings and both are satoris, after all; and a player's passive ability is something innate, something they just due without thinking, which falls into Koishi's territory, the manipulation of the subconscious.


Okay, about her passive, it says "directly chosen" as a target. meaning that any attack that does not directly let you choose who to hit will ignore the passive.

Flandre's spellcard, for example, can hit Koishi if she targets the character next to Koishi, as the "hit each player next to your target" part of the attack is not a direct choice and thus does not trigger the passive.
Ah, I didn't realize that's what it meant, my bad. So cards like Last Word would also not trigger this effect. But even then, some few Spell Cards and one card out of the battle deck are the only things that would negate this really annoying passive ability, so even considering them, this passive would still be too powerful.


Character Card
Koishi Komeiji

Passive
Once per round, when you are attacked, you may avoid that attack.

Spellcard
Response "Youkai Polygraph"
Choose Danmaku, Dodge, Invocation, or Item cards. Until the beginning of your next turn, if any player other than you plays a card of the chosen type, attack that player, regardless of range.
The problem with her new passive is that now, somebody has to sacrifice a card without the assurance that somebody else would later follow up on attacking her. And without this assurance, nobody would want to waste even a single card against her, meaning that, even if her ability only triggers once per round, she will be one of the last people standing (unless a lot of Last Word effects that hit everybody are played, but we have to assume that Last Word is the only card that can actually attack everyone, as we cannot assume we have certain characters in any given round).

Her Spell Card is deadly against characters like Sakuya or people with the Stop Watch (or during the Eternal/ Imperishable Night incident, however it was called in this game). All you need to do is choosing Danmaku and Sakuya/ the Stop Watch user/ a person with a lot of Powers won't be able to attack anymore without getting punched in the face repeatedly.
If you want to keep this effect, I'd advise you to limit it to once per person and remove Danmaku and Dodge cards from this list, as they are too common. Heck, even without Sakuya/ the Stopwatch, nobody would want to attack this turn as it means an automatic counter attack, meaning everyone would just draw some cards and end the turn (unless they know Koishi is on their side, in which case Koishi just opened up a huge advantage for her own team).
I know this effect seems similar to Byakuren's passive, however, since Byakuren needs to drain herself of her own resources, she is limited to the Danmaku cards in her hand, meaning that, if she barely has any cards in her hand, it's fairly safe for other players to attack, since Byakuren has to keep her cards for the people she wants to eliminate first.
If you can indiscriminately attack any person playing a Danmaku card, even if it's just once per turn (which it currently isn't), then 1) of course Koishi will attack them if she is not on their side  and 2) they won't attack because they know of case 1.
Long story short, remove Danmaku and Dodge, since they are too essential to the game and putting them on the list will just grind the game to a halt.


Once again I have misjudged the power of the passive. Would it be weaker if she needed a Danmaku card to do it?
It would be weaker, yes, since Yuyuko would drain herself of her resources. However, it would still feel like a more powerful Byakuren at this point, even if you can only use it once per turn (since even Byakuren will rarely use it more than once per turn due to her limited resources). Then again, since you now need 2 out of your up to 4 cards in your hand... well, maybe it would be alright like that, I'm not entirely certain.


Character Card
Yuyuko Saigyouji

Passive
Once per round, when a player is hit with Yuyuko's attack, you may force that player to trash one Item card that they have in play.

Spellcard
Lifespan "Ticket to the Ageless Land"
Choose a target in range. That target loses one life. (This is not considered an attack.)
This new passive is okay, I think, but it robs Yuyuko of her personality, as she is, when simply looking at her power, just another Flandre now. Btw, while your Yuyuko cannot target the item to be trashed, the hit player still needs to discard their power up card (as usual) which is not the case with Flandre, which makes your Yuyuko's passive about as strong as Flandre's... except it is only once per round and does not synergize with her Spell Card. Okay, when taking this into account, it actually is weaker.

In general, your Yuyuko is okay power-level-wise, but she's missing an own identity now. She just seems like a weaker Remilia with Flandre's passive. This is the biggest problem right now.
... I'm sorry for nagging on your ideas even when the power seems fine. ^^;



Okay, the thing about this is that Supernatural Border activates two out of three powers of this spellcard, so a Kaguya player is REALLY going to want to get one of those. Granted it's not a common card, so it's not the most reliable sort of thing, but it means that Kaguya is going to be a serious threat if she does get one, and Supernatural Border is the better of the two Defense cards in the standard deck, so...

Still, I do agree that it's interesting. I would ask for a second opinion on it, though, as I'm not the best person in terms of figuring what is and isn't OP...
Yeah, I'm aware of the Border. Which is why I didn't use "Deal 2 damage" for a Power Up card, like I wanted to at first, as that + "cannot be canceled" would definitely be OP, even if you need an artifact for the latter part.
However, it is more likely to have a Power card anyway (which is also why I put the "ignore distance" part here, to make it less useful/ powerful as Power are the most common Power Up cards). But yes, you are right, the Border is doubly useful for her Spell Card. If it seems too good, you could state that each card only counts for one effect, meaning that Supernatural Border would only count as either a Power up OR a Defense card.
And yes, I'm also aware of the fact that currently, you cannot do anything about the "Trash an item" part if Guya has an artifact equipped (since dodge is possible, cancel isn't). That was intentional, to make it better than a Seal Away (I mean, you need an Artifact and a Defense card in that case, so it better be worth it ;P )



You haven't said anything about Momiji. Is she OP, or is she ok? I wrote in that her card is a reaction spellcard(I don't have the means to put in the Reaction symbol in the appropriate place), but it's a strong card, inflicting 2 damage on hit. Although maybe I should write the second part as "If there is no attacker, choose a player in range to attack for 2 damage."?
Momiji? Was she in your last post? I can't seem to find her there, or in the older posts even when Crtl+F the first page.

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2017, 06:18:23 PM »
Momiji was quietly in the post with all the character cards. Though, I don't agree with her passive being stronger than Cirno's +2 range (with drawback) while her spell, while rather vanilla, has no drawbacks for its strengths.

Moreover, the addition of "regardless of distance" to either casting condition of her spell seems redundant when she has +2 range but default.

ShadowNCS

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2017, 06:35:43 PM »
Momiji was quietly in the post with all the character cards.

I swear that, when I looked at the post, the card wasn't there. The first row only had one card for me. Although that at least explained why there was only one card. Seems like the picture just didn't load for me originally.

Now that it is visible to me, let's take a look.

Passive:
A Range of +2 is massive, as it might, in a lot of instances, read "choose any player, regardless of range", especially if you pack a (few) Power card(s) as well.
The reason why Cirno cannot target anyone sitting next to her is to balance the fact that she gets such a big boost in range.
Your Momiji, on the other hand, can have 2 Defense cards at the same time to balance things out... or do the opposite of that.
Since +2 Range is already Cirno's thing, I would recommend not using that for Momiji. Or if you REALLY want it, give her +2 Range but some other drawback, like "Momiji has +2 Range and -1 Distance".

Spell Card:
So, this is a Spell Card that can be used whenever? AKA as an Action OR Reaction?
This alone makes it really powerful, as characters like Meiling have to wait for someone else to attack first before they can attack, and with Meiling specifically, she doesn't even get an evasion out of her spell, either (although she does draw cards, which is always nice)
In other words, this is an attack you can use whenever to damage for 2.
Personally, being able to use your Spell card whenever is REALLY powerful, but simply dealing 2 damage, regardless of range, seems lackluster, even if good powerwise.
However, since Momiji already has a static +2 Range buff, having her Spell Card be regardless of range doesn't make much of a difference.

In general, her passive and Spell Card have a negative synergy.
Her passive is too powerful,
while her Spell Card is parts OP (use whenever) while underwhelming ("just deal 2 damage") for being usable whenever.
If you really want to keep the "use whenever" part, then her Spell Card should have an effect that actually has a great use during other people's turn AS WELL as her own turn that is not simply an attack.

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2017, 08:53:02 PM »
The problem with her new passive is that now, somebody has to sacrifice a card without the assurance that somebody else would later follow up on attacking her. And without this assurance, nobody would want to waste even a single card against her, meaning that, even if her ability only triggers once per round, she will be one of the last people standing (unless a lot of Last Word effects that hit everybody are played, but we have to assume that Last Word is the only card that can actually attack everyone, as we cannot assume we have certain characters in any given round).

In my experience, most people who want to attack other players tend to have more than one attack to throw at them, and Koishi's passive is basically having one Dodge card per round, meaning that she can only avoid one attack without resources. Compare to Satori, who has a one in four chance of evading any attack, and well...

Her Spell Card is deadly against characters like Sakuya or people with the Stop Watch (or during the Eternal/ Imperishable Night incident, however it was called in this game). All you need to do is choosing Danmaku and Sakuya/ the Stop Watch user/ a person with a lot of Powers won't be able to attack anymore without getting punched in the face repeatedly.
If you want to keep this effect, I'd advise you to limit it to once per person and remove Danmaku and Dodge cards from this list, as they are too common. Heck, even without Sakuya/ the Stopwatch, nobody would want to attack this turn as it means an automatic counter attack, meaning everyone would just draw some cards and end the turn (unless they know Koishi is on their side, in which case Koishi just opened up a huge advantage for her own team).
I know this effect seems similar to Byakuren's passive, however, since Byakuren needs to drain herself of her own resources, she is limited to the Danmaku cards in her hand, meaning that, if she barely has any cards in her hand, it's fairly safe for other players to attack, since Byakuren has to keep her cards for the people she wants to eliminate first.
If you can indiscriminately attack any person playing a Danmaku card, even if it's just once per turn (which it currently isn't), then 1) of course Koishi will attack them if she is not on their side  and 2) they won't attack because they know of case 1.
Long story short, remove Danmaku and Dodge, since they are too essential to the game and putting them on the list will just grind the game to a halt.

The Dodge cards, I will concede(since there's a infinite loop that'll happen if someone tries to evade an attack), but I can't say the same for the Danmaku cards. The thing about it is that as a spellcard, it's effectively a stronger version of Hijiri's passive, but with an important difference: Koishi can't not attack someone if they play the chosen card, meaning that if you choose Danmaku, then you're likely going to punch everyone in the face, and that'll lead to a lot of aggro, which combined with her fairly weak passive, means that the Koishi player will pretty much be asking for a beating. Basically, Koishi players should choose Danmaku cards only if they have the defenses to survive that choice(or the balls to do it regardless of their defenses), and if they don't, they can choose Invocation or Item cards instead.

---

Character Card
The Closed Eyes of Love
Koishi Komeiji

Passive
Once per round, when you are attacked, you may avoid that attack.

Spellcard - Action
Response "Youkai Polygraph"
Choose Danmaku, Invocation, or Item cards. Until the beginning of your next turn, if any player other than you plays a card of the chosen type, attack that player, regardless of range.

---

Yuyuko

You don't have to worry about the identity thing. If anything, the passive was meant to emulate the snow weather effect that she had in SWR(although maybe I should have the passive target a random card from the player's hand for each hit instead? That might be too powerful, though...)

Momiji

Okay, so the simple fact is that her spellcard isn't meant to be impressive, simply versatile. Still...

---

Character Card
Petty Patrol Tengu
Momiji Inubashiri

Passive

Momiji has +3 Range.

Spellcard - Reaction
Dog Sign "Rabies Bite"

Activate either when another player attacks or any time you can play an Action card.

Attack a player in range for 2 damage.

---

I removed the "2 Defense cards" passive, since it's clear that Range is a powerful thing, and made it +3 as her only passive, with a spellcard that respects range, regardless of how it is used(Although, given the whole issue with Range, it might as well say "regardless of range" in a vast majority of cases), so Momiji's thing can be "best natural range in the game, with a spellcard that makes use of said range", as being able to hit distant players is a nice benefit, and a spellcard that can be used as an action or reaction for 2 damage(which is half of a player's life total is they're not the Heroine or Ex-Boss) is powerful enough, I think. As for Momiji vs. Cirno, remember that Cirno's Spellcard forces a player to skip their next turn, which is a very powerful effect, so a drawback was needed there(plus the whole "you're frozen for your next turn!" is what I consider to be Cirno's main thing, really).
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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2017, 09:37:28 PM »
I, uh, really don't consider +3 range to be the solution here.

Re: Cirno's "thing"
Her passive used to be +1 range but unable to hit distance 1 players. Same spell and all. But that got buffed to a +2 range, turning her into a surprising long range sharpshooter.

+3 range on Momiji, with no drawbacks, lets her hit any player in even an 8 player setting. Just, uh, think upon that. (It also like completely destroys Nitori since she's basically got no passive against Momiji, and her spell doesn't mean much when Momiji doesn't need power to reach Nitori and deal ~massive damage~ with both spell and normal attacks)

ShadowNCS

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2017, 12:43:01 AM »
In my experience, most people who want to attack other players tend to have more than one attack to throw at them, and Koishi's passive is basically having one Dodge card per round, meaning that she can only avoid one attack without resources. Compare to Satori, who has a one in four chance of evading any attack, and well...
Imagine following scenario: 1v1, Koishi vs whoever is the heroine.

Heroine HandKoishi HandActions
4 cards + 2 draw       4 cardsHeroine attacks twice, Koishi dodges once + autododge
4 cards3 cards + 2 draw       Koishi attacks twice, Heroine dodges both
2 cards + 2 draw3 cardsHeroine attacks twice, Koishi dodges once + autododge
2 cards2 cards + 2 drawKoishi attacks twice, Heroine dodges both
0 cards + 2 draw2 cardsHeroine attacks twice, Koishi dodges once + autododge
0 cards1 card + 2 drawKoishi attacks twice, Heroine is out of cards to do anything and gets hit (assume Heroine draws into dodge)
0 cards + 2 draw1 cardHeroine attacks twice, Koishi dodges once + autododge
0 cards0 cards + 2 drawKoishi attacks twice, Heroine is out of cards to do anything and gets hit (may draw into dodge)

Heroine life: (starting with 4): 1-2
Koishi life: (starting wiht 4): 4
(Satori would have dodged 2 attacks, whereas Koishi just dodged 4)

You see this problem here? How the opponent is somehow losing on card advantage without being able to do anything about it? Even if it is only limited to once per round, she basically generate a free dodge card per round. That's a better version of Keine's ability, since she can CYCLE a card per round. AKA she can get a better card without actually getting another one.
True, Keine can cycle into a Kourindou or a card-draw card, but she needs to get lucky to get that.
Your Koishi gets a free dodge card that expires by the end of the round.

And again, "most people who want to attack other players tend to have more than one attack to throw at them", while this may be true,
1) you cannot attack Koishi simply because she is sitting next to you, as your attack would be entirely pointless as it just fizzles out.
2) you MUST do 2+ attacks to do damage to her. If you don't have the cards or the attacks per turn, you cannot achieve this, though.
3) just imagine Koishi with the Supernatural Border. Satori is scary when she has that thing, but with Koishi, especially in a 1v1 scenario, you might as well concede at that point.



Koishi can't not attack someone if they play the chosen card,
Do you really think that's a disadvantage? An EX Boss will like that and simply state "You don't HAVE to attack right now. Sorry if it inconveniences you." Or even worse, what if you are the Heroine? Everyone attacking you will quickly be executed by the Partners and EX Boss.
And if that's not enough, let's take the scenario from the top again.
For simplicity's sake, let's assume we fight against Nitori, Youmu, Remilia or Suika (assuming Range/ Disctance does not matter for whatever reason) who simply deal 1 damage in this situation

Heroine HandKoishi HandActionsLife
4 cards + 2 draw       4 cardsHeroine attacks twice + Spell Card, Koishi dodges twice + autododge4 |4
3 cards2 cards + 2 draw       Koishi attacks twice + Spell Card, Heroine dodges all4 |4
0 cards + 2 draw1 cardHeroine attacks twice, Koishi dodges once + autododge, Heroine is counterattacked twice (assume she draws into dodge)    3 |4
0 cards1 card + 2 drawKoishi attacks twice, Heroine is hit and draws into dodge2 |4

Admittedly, I gave the Heroine a disadvantage by giving her only a Spell Card that deals 1 damage. However, that's because Koishi's Spell Card's power scales with the amount of people still left in the game. The more players are in the game, the more (collateral) damage she will cause.
So, if someone who truly wishes to attack Koishi while she has used her Spell Card, they have to take 2 damage while Koishi only receives 1 damage. While they have to play 2 cards, and Koishi only needs to play 1. Something does not add up here.
And again, this is Koishi's Spell Card at its WEAKEST state, with only 1 player left.


meaning that if you choose Danmaku, then you're likely going to punch everyone in the face, and that'll lead to a lot of aggro,
Again, if she is the Heroine, good luck with your plan of attacking her. You probably won't get killed by Partners and the EX Boss. </joking>
And if you are the EX Boss, you don't really care about attacking everyone. After all, there's Yuuka, who will ALWAYS attack everyone. But unlike your Koishi, she can only ever hit a person once with her Spell Card, and does not have a free dodge per round which becomes incredible in the end game (admittedly, she gets cards upon hitting others, but if she doesn't draw into dodge cards, she'll be left defenseless).

which combined with her fairly weak passive,
Look at the first table above.

You don't have to worry about the identity thing. If anything, the passive was meant to emulate the snow weather effect that she had in SWR
The problem here is that players will generally not notice this. They will just see that Flandre and your Yuyuko have a similar passive.

(although maybe I should have the passive target a random card from the player's hand for each hit instead? That might be too powerful, though...)
In general, you should leave hand cards of other people alone. Remilia could steal other people's hand cards upon successfully evading an attack at one point, and that was incredibly frustrating for the attackers as they got punished for trying to play the game.
You really never want to mess with hand cards in this game, as those are the only thing you can rely on. (Unless it affects everyone, including the user, like Tempest, which creates a completely new board for everyone.)


Character Card
Petty Patrol Tengu
Momiji Inubashiri

Passive

Momiji has +3 Range.

Spellcard - Reaction
Dog Sign "Rabies Bite"

Activate either when another player attacks or any time you can play an Action card.

Attack a player in range for 2 damage.
Again, Cirno has 2 Range and a drawback because 2 Range is too good by itself.
3 Range is even better.
Suika has +1 Range + 1 Attack per turn. (AKA 1 virtual card)
3 Range is even better. (AKA 1.5+ virtual cards. "+", because it might as well read "ignore distance" in most cases.)


As for Momiji vs. Cirno, remember that Cirno's Spellcard forces a player to skip their next turn, which is a very powerful effect, so a drawback was needed there(plus the whole "you're frozen for your next turn!" is what I consider to be Cirno's main thing, really).
Yes, Cirno's Spell Card is powerful. Howerver:
Cirno: "Haha, that player who is 3 places away from me cannot use their next turn! I'm the strongest!"
Player next to Cirno: "Yo! *hits Cirno*"

You see the point? Cirno cannot defend herself from people who sit next to her, unless the amount of players has reduced to 4 or less.
So she cannot make use of this effect to protect herself from other players unless we are in the end stages.
And yes, it's important to keep the overall character balanced. And while I'm not saying your Momiji is necessarily OP Spell Card wise (she deals as much damage as Mokou on average), 3 Range might as well read "ignore distance". You should only get a small boost for the mechanics, not completely disable them.
Also, there's nothing you can really gain out of activating her Spell Card during another player's turn. I'm not saying it's a bad thing or OP or anything, I'm just saying that this special mechanic (as it is currently the only Spell Card that can be used whenever) should be used with an effect that has different benefits depending on when you use it (despite having the same effect, e.g. "On the next player's draw step, they draw no cards." Same text no matter when you activate it, but the activation time makes differences on who is effected. Then again, you could just say "Choose a player, they get no cards on their next draw step." But this was just meant for a quick example). Otherwise, it feels weird for it to even be there.
Like, yes, there are small situations in which you may want to attack someone during someone else's turn, but 90% of the time, you're just going to use the Spell Card during your own turn anyway, as damage SHOULD only be dealt during your own turn (exceptions confirm the rule).


Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2017, 04:26:23 AM »
Quote
Koishi

...seriously?  A free dodge once per round is actually a super strong passive, rather than a weak one?

How does me running into OP territory just keep happening?  ???

Anyway...

---

Character Card
The Closed Eyes of Love
Koishi Komeiji

Passive

Koishi has +1 Distance.

Spellcard - Action
Dream Sign "Ancestors are Watching You"

You may discard up to 2 cards when you play this card.

Attack a player in range. For each card you have discarded, you may attack that player again.

---

+1 Distance as a passive(weakest passive I could come up with without a drawback, Nitori has the same passive AND another passive with it, and she and Koishi both have a "invisibility" sort of thing, so it's thematically consistent?), and a spellcard that can attack up to three times if you're willing to part with some cards(3 cards, 3 attacks, so it's balanced?). And the spellcard is canonically a spell that can fire three times in HM and ULiL.

Quote
Momiji

...I'm going to take your word for it, because I honestly don't understand the true value of range boosting. I think that I've grown incredibly rusty in terms of Danmaku!!(I honestly want to play more Danmaku!! on TTS so that I can actually hone my senses for this sort of thing...)...

Also, "a reaction that's also an action needs to have different effect if used as an action or a reaction"...

...a moment.

---

Character Card
Petty Patrol Tengu
Momiji Inubashiri

Passive

Momiji can have 2 Defense cards in play at the same time.

Spellcard - Reaction
Mountain Nomad "Expellee's Cannan"

Activate either when another player attacks or any time you can play an Action card.

You may choose to cancel the attack, if any, and you may attack a player, regardless of range.

---

Ditched the range boost and extra damage, brought back the "2 shields" passive and "regardless of range" aspect of the spellcard, and granted it a attack cancelling effect if there is one to cancel. Also, you can choose whether you want to stop an attack or not, and whether you want to attack someone or not. It's a versatile card that isn't really special in effect, but you can cancel an attack with it, and the attack itself ignores range, so it isn't weak either.

I just hope that it's not in OP territory still...

Quote
Yuyuko

Quote
You really never want to mess with hand cards in this game, as those are the only thing you can rely on. (Unless it affects everyone, including the user, like Tempest, which creates a completely new board for everyone.)

*remembers that Miko's spellcard is effectively a single target Tempest*
*remembers that Futo's spellcard switches the hands of two different players*

Past designs kind of say otherwise, NCS...

---

Character Card
Ghost Girl in the Netherworld Tower
Yuyuko Saigyouji

Passive
When a player is hit with Yuyuko's attack, instead of discarding a Powerup card, you may choose to force that player to trash one card at random from their hand.

Spellcard
Lifespan "Ticket to the Ageless Land"
Choose a target in range. That target loses one life. (This is not considered an attack.)

---

Given that a player gains a card whenever they lose life for any reason(unless I'm remembering the rules wrong), the passive isn't really that strong(although I have time and again been proven wrong), and it comes at the cost of letting the player you hit keep their Powerup cards. Also, Yuyuko's spellcard doesn't synergize with her passive at all, as it's not an attack, so it doesn't cause anything other than a loss of life(no Powerup discard if it's not a hit from an attack, if I'm remembering the current set of rules correctly), and the targeted player can draw a card for losing a life, so it's sort of generating a card disadvantage as a cost for being an "undodgeable life loss" sort of thing, and it respects range, unlike Remilia's spear.

Now, it's almost midnight here, so I'll just sleep before my brain shuts down on me...
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

The Greatest Dog

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2017, 05:45:08 AM »
Those are parts of spells. Remilia used to steal cards when she avoided stuff (whether by her own grazes, Borders, or even Sakuya's spell). Marisa used to steal cards from people that she successfully hit (and man did that snowball).

You also forgot Yukari's current spell. Or that one of Yuuka's former spells involved a mass Tempest for ~every~ player.

In other words. Messing with hands used to be a thing but that got toned down. A lot.

Re: Expellee's Cannan
the current precedent for "cancelling" only exists for cards that have attacking in their effect, not for attacks themselves
Ie, Bomb cancels entire spells; Aya can cancel attacks made via Danmaku cards but can't cancel attacks made via passive effects such as that of Youmu and Byakuren. Even Futo's discarding of items can only be used to avoid attacks - not cancel them, which would be a huge boon to her and probably increase her playdate dramatically.

Rather, the only spells that can really avert attacks - Sakuya, Reisen, and Keine, never cancel individual attacks themselves but either force evasion or cancel the entire spell.

What I'm getting at is, cancelling just the ~attack~ has weird implications in its interactions with spellcards and the passives of Yukari, Youmu, Reisen, Byakuren...
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 06:59:58 AM by The Greatest Dog »

ShadowNCS

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2017, 09:19:56 AM »
How does me running into OP territory just keep happening?  ???
I don't know, but my guess is that you don't consider (some of) the following factors:
1) how much (virtual) cards is your effect worth compared to the effects of the other characters
2) how might other people act when being able to use this ability.
3) how would it feel if this effect was used on me
4) how to counter this effect
5) how often is this effect going to be used.

Examples:
1) Suika's passive is the same as a Power card, thus it is worth 1 card.
Patchouli's passive lets her carry 2 - 3 more cards, which is roughly worth half a card per card to carry more, so 1 - 1.5 cards (basing this on intuition, to be fair)
Keine can cycle a card, which is worth 1 card.
Yuuka can draw one card per hit. If we assume that, without Spell Cards, you attack 1.5 times per round (maybe more), and maybe around 66% of these attacks hit, it's worth around 1 card. With her Spell Card... probably more like 2+ cards.

2)
Really, you just have to look at the ability and consider how often and when the ability is used.
Satori can look at another player's hand whenever, once per round. Do you want to use it right before an attack, maybe during your partner's turn and signal them some information, maybe just before your next turn hits so you can get more information every two rounds, etc.
Miko can target anyone with her Spell Card's ability. Another player, or even herself. How many cards does another player need to have in order for its effect to be viable? When would you use it on yourself?
Basically, you need to look at more than just how you would instinctively use it, but also look at other alternatives to make sure you're not overlooking something, like with your latest Koishi. "Dodging one attack for free per round isn't much." It is, when you consider that 2 damage through 2 attacks during one turn is a huge swing and accomplishment in this game.

3)
If I need to pay an extra card to dodge any of Reimu's attacks, how does that feel? Is letting yourself get hit here a viable option rather than losing 2 cards?
Answer: It's viable, as you can use your dodge cards in hand when other people attack you. (If Reimu is the only one targeting you, you may use it against her.)
If a character gets one free attack in one round, what are the implications? You need to spend 2 cards, which is the amount of card draw you get each turn, to simply deal 1 damage. I need a Power or other effect to attack multiple times per round, or I need to use my (rare) Spell Card. If I want to deal 2 damage, I need to use one of my remaining cards in my hand and get a card deficit (you need to use 3 cards while only drawing 2 per turn, thus you are at -1), which is a huge risk (less resources means you are more likely to be attacked as you have less chances of having a dodge card).
Even while Reimu's and your Koishi's effects seem similar at first glance (you need to waste cards in order to accomplish something), with Reimu, you can spend your resources in other places and forego Reimu's extra costs. With your Koishi, if you want her dead, you need to attack her and waste a card, nothing you can do about it. True, these situations also exist with Reimu (her being the only one attacking you, 1v1 situations, ...), but with your Koishi, as soon as you engage in combat with her, you are hit by this effect.
And now, to get back to the original point, how does it feel?
Reimu: Feels a little bad to waste resources, but it feels great if you don't spend your resources against her and you actually can use it somewhere else for a better effect.
Koishi: Feels bad because there's nothing you can do without relying entirely on RNG (having chosen someone with a Last World Spell Card or getting Last World from the center deck to negate her free dodging for an actual attack... or maybe Last Shot/ Remilia's Spear work, since you cannot dodge them. But again, requires 100% RNG and no strategy/ planning).

4)
I pretty much wrote about this in 3 already. What do you need to counter the effect?
Suika's passive: Get a Focus. Or just ignore it, as +1 Range +1 Attack per Turn isn't that troublesome, as it requires Suika to have the resources to begin with.
Reimu's passive: spend your dodge cards elsewhere and tank the hit as long as you have enough live. Doesn't always work, but it's a viable strategy.
Koishi's passive: requires a few select characters that you have to get at the start of the game or one of two one-of-a-kind cards from the center deck. Far too unreliable to be a strategy.
And reliability of a counter is the key for this point. If it's unreliable, then your effect is too powerful.

5)
Generally not a problem to you, since your effects tend to be too strong, and this case is most useful for underpowered effects, but I felt like listing it for completeness' sake.
Please note that this is only for active skills, not for passive buffs and effects that automatically trigger.
There's three general possibilities here:
a) never/ rarely: The effect is entirely useless or there are better alternatives most of the time. (Nitori's second passive ability. If she didn't have a distance buff, her passive would be the worst in the entire game IMO). This can be used to giev a powerful character a little something more, without making them too powerful (e.g. if they otherwise seem bland), or to balance a strong Spell Card with a rarely used passive.
b) situational/ regularly: The effect is used a good chunk of the time, (Utsuho's passive. You don't want to discard two cards every turn, but if you REALLY want to finish someone off but don't have an Invocation, this will save your butt.)
c)  always/ whenever possible: If you land here, you've either made a really good effect (that might be on the verge of being too powerful), or an entirely broken one. (Most of your Spell Cards. Yes, they are supposed to be powerful, but only in the right situation. Most of yours can be spammed whenever and be incredibly good. Best example: your Komachi that puts one character into range of everybody else.)



There's probably some more points to consider, but it's 9:30AM at the point of writing this, and I haven't slept yet.
Either way, these 5 points should be the most important that you should always consider when making a new effect.


Character Card
The Closed Eyes of Love
Koishi Komeiji

Passive

Koishi has +1 Distance.

Spellcard - Action
Dream Sign "Ancestors are Watching You"

You may discard up to 2 cards when you play this card.

Attack a player in range. For each card you have discarded, you may attack that player again.
That seems fair enough, I think.
Discarding two cards means you will be, assuming you start out with 6 cards and attack once, left with 2 cards, which means you're likely to be attacked for being out of resources. Being hit then will generate a card. However, not actually being hit due to your spell will (sort of) generate a virtual card (in this circumstance) (which is the Danmaku card used to attack you later on).
In other words: being hit is worth 2 cards (the Danmaku card used by your opponent and the card you draw for losing 1 life)
Thus, in the end, this effect is about as powerful as Utsuho's Spell Card, as she loses 1 life to attack 3 times. And as stated above, 2 cards roughly equal 1 life.
Although my math may be WAY off here. But that's how I look at it.



...I'm going to take your word for it, because I honestly don't understand the true value of range boosting. I think that I've grown incredibly rusty in terms of Danmaku!!(I honestly want to play more Danmaku!! on TTS so that I can actually hone my senses for this sort of thing...)...
+1 Range: Really important so you can engage in combat with players who might not be able to counterattack.
+2 Range: Really good as Focused character next to you and all regular players can now be hit (unless it's an 8 player game).
+3 Range: Amazing. You can hit anyone you want under most circumstances.
+4 Range and higher: Range has lost all meaning beyond this point. You can equip more Powers to protect the ones you already have, but that's about it. Even the attacks per turn are kind of irrelevant if you have 4 of them, as you usually don't have the resources to attack that often, anyway. Really, the only reason to stack so much Range is to either get the "I have all the Powers!" achievement, or to attack Byakuren despite self-buff.

That's how I basically handle Range.
Same goes for Distance.



Character Card
Petty Patrol Tengu
Momiji Inubashiri

Passive

Momiji can have 2 Defense cards in play at the same time.

Spellcard - Reaction
Mountain Nomad "Expellee's Cannan"

Activate either when another player attacks or any time you can play an Action card.

You may choose to cancel the attack, if any, and you may attack a player, regardless of range.
It seems okay now (I don't know how powerful the possibility of equipping two items really is, but in the sketching stage, this seems fine to me), and while her Spell Card is perfectly fine, it does still not seem special enough to warrant being playable whenever you want. I'd just give her a static Reaction Spell that lets her cancel a Spell, since otherwise, if you use your Spell Card during your own turn, it literally just transforms into another attack (that can ignore distance, but still.)
This "activate during your own turn" portion actually falls under case 5's rarely used category.



*remembers that Miko's spellcard is effectively a single target Tempest*
*remembers that Futo's spellcard switches the hands of two different players*
It's true that I've completely forgotten about these effects. However, I was mostly talking about passive abilities earlier. Bad excuse aside, personally, there's actually another interesting point to this:
Miko and Futo both give you other cards in return and never leave you with an empty hand... except if Futo makes you switch hands with a player who has no cards left.
And to be honest, even if these two Spell Cards are in the game, that doesn't mean I like them.
That, and most of the time, Miko uses her own Spell Card on herself to gain 3 cards while she has an empty hand.
And Futo's Spell Card is terrible for herself and only works when she has/ is a Partner. And even then, if her Partner has more/ better cards than anybody else on the board, her Spell Card is weak, which is why Futo rarely saw play in our group.
And regarding Yukari, she can steal one Item/ hand card when she uses her Spell Card. Since it's only one, I suppose it's all right? Considering it's a Spell Card we're talking about here. I mean, getting one card stolen is pretty mean, but there's a lot more powerful effects, which is why this seems fairly tame by comparison.
That, and Spell Cards are (fairly) rare, so this stealing mechanic won't be overused here.


Character Card
Ghost Girl in the Netherworld Tower
Yuyuko Saigyouji

Passive
When a player is hit with Yuyuko's attack, instead of discarding a Powerup card, you may choose to force that player to trash one card at random from their hand.

Spellcard
Lifespan "Ticket to the Ageless Land"
Choose a target in range. That target loses one life. (This is not considered an attack.)

---

Given that a player gains a card whenever they lose life for any reason(unless I'm remembering the rules wrong), the passive isn't really that strong(although I have time and again been proven wrong), and it comes at the cost of letting the player you hit keep their Powerup cards. Also, Yuyuko's spellcard doesn't synergize with her passive at all, as it's not an attack, so it doesn't cause anything other than a loss of life(no Powerup discard if it's not a hit from an attack, if I'm remembering the current set of rules correctly), and the targeted player can draw a card for losing a life, so it's sort of generating a card disadvantage as a cost for being an "undodgeable life loss" sort of thing, and it respects range, unlike Remilia's spear.
After reading your thought process on this, I have to agree, this does seem okay.
Not as powerful as official Yuyuko (I think), but definitely not weak.
That said, i still want to see official Yuyuko in action to see her actual power for myself (as the more I look at her, and especially the older cards, she seems to be getting tamer each time. xD; )

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2017, 04:24:46 PM »
Quote
Momiji

Well, in all fairness, this whole discussion has shown me that one should be careful about the whole/distance thing.

That said, after thinking about it, I think that the "2 shields" passive may be far too OP(2 Focus = +4 Distance and 2 Supernatural Borders means you can check two cards for a Spring or Summer in order to dodge an attack), so I'm considering changing it to this...

---

Character Card
Petty Patrol Tengu
Momiji Inubashiri

Passive

Momiji has +1 Range.

Spellcard - Reaction
Mountain Nomad "Expellee's Cannan"

Activate either when another player attacks or any time you can play an Action card.

You may choose to cancel the attack, if any. If there's no attack to cancel or you choose not to cancel it, draw a card.

You may attack a player, regardless of range. If you choose not to, draw a card.

---

Trading the "2 shields" passive for a +1 range, and giving the Spellcard a card draw for each effect that you choose not to(or can't, in the case of the attack cancelling effect) do, making it more worth using during your own turn, as Invocation cards can now double as a "once per round Grimoire card that you can use during other players turns as well" if you are willing to forgo both the attack canceling and the attack(something that would be useful if you're facing a person whose Spellcard can't be cancelled, but can possibly be dodged if you can draw a Dodge card, like Flandre's spellcard), and there are more Invocation cards than Grimoire cards in the standard deck, so there's that.

Also, here's a Yuyuko update, because I just realized something...

---

Character Card
Ghost Girl in the Netherworld Tower
Yuyuko Saigyouji

Passive
When a player is hit with Yuyuko's attack, instead of discarding a Powerup card, you may choose to force that player to trash one card at random from their hand(this discard occurs before the card draw from life loss).

Spellcard
Lifespan "Ticket to the Ageless Land"
Choose a target in range. That target loses one life. (This is not considered an attack.)

---

I realized that the passive needed clarification, in case someone were to ask whether the discard or the card draw from life loss came first(because if the card draw were to come before the discard, then that's effectively a possible denial of a fresh card draw and thus super OP).

Oh, and one thing about my version of Kaguya is that her spellcard buff is pretty much like her saying "Yo dawg, I heard you like Danmaku, so this'll let ya Danmaku while you Danmaku so you can shoot while you shoot"(I swear that it sounded funnier in my head). It's actually quite powerful if the right person gets it(including herself, since it doesn't stop her from using it on herself), so she doesn't really need a passive(I might actually want to replace it with the passive that your Kaguya has instead, though). And given that I also made Nuclear Control Rod a while back...

Quote
---

Artifact Card
Nuclear Control Rod

Once per round, whenever you hit another player with an attack, you may discard a card to attack that player again, regardless of range.

Once per round, whenever you are attacked by another player, you may discard a card. Attack the attacker, regardless of range.

---

...hmm...

---

Artifact Card
Bullet Branch of Hourai

You gain +1 Range.

Whenever you attack a player with a Danmaku card, you may attack that player one additional time.

---

Would it be better if I simply put the buff in as a passive in an Artifact card instead? (I seem to be better at making Artifact cards than with Character cards...)
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Moogs Parfait

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2017, 05:43:12 AM »
Yo it's my birthday so we're having a big ol' sale. 50% off Danmaku!! and 25% off the rest.

http://danmaku.party/store/

Moogs Parfait

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2017, 05:46:00 PM »
Also I have broken down and created a discord

https://discord.gg/WJJVP4c

Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2017, 09:24:22 AM »
Looks like Parfait forgot to post this here:

Yuugi and Shou confirmed!
My old avatars: Old ass turtle, Unzan - Second and Current Avatar by the talented Aoshi-shi

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2017, 11:03:52 AM »
And thanks to said Yuugi(plus a chat with NCS), I thought of a better set up for Momiji...

---

Character Card
Petty Patrol Tengu
Momiji Inubashiri

Passive

Momiji has +1 Range.

Spellcard - Action
Dog Sign "Rabies Bite"

Attack a player, regardless of range. If the target is in range, this attack deals 2 damage.

---

Simple, yet effective.


There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Big Fairy

  • U U U U
Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2017, 04:49:39 PM »
Excellent news, and congratulations!!! I'm already throwing the money  :D
Great job on the new site design and the card database as well.

Our group didn't have the occasion to play Danmaku for a while now and we were just thinking about scheduling some games, so this will make everyone happy.
Are Mokou, Shou and Yuugi ready for testing as well? I'd like to add them to the mix if they are. Can't wait to play as Mokou.

Moogs Parfait

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2017, 08:23:14 PM »
Thanks! We'll continue to update it to uh, modern standards.  :blush:


Yes, feel free to use LE characters we reveal in your games.

Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2017, 03:55:57 PM »
I've been lurking on this project for... at least a year now, it must be. Since a while before it released, at any rate. Finally got to buy a copy last month. I love it; my Touhou-playing friends like it; my non-Touhou-playing friends like it... it's everything I hoped it would be. The two-player variant someone suggested in the other thread is what I've mostly used, but I got to play a five-player game last week and that was a blast. I wanted to post here to thank you for making it. It's an amazing endeavour that paid off in spades.

The cards for the expansion look great. I'm particularly looking forward to playing as Mokou and that devilish Yuyuko. (Also, Shou looks downright horrifying.)

Since it's hard to find enough players to play a game like this, I was thinking of running a few games as an event at an upcoming convention. Hopefully that's okay?

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2017, 04:58:07 AM »
Yes feel free to run any events you like. Basically our rules are like ZUN's; don't pretend you're us or him, otherwise we don't care what you do. If you mod Danmaku!! make sure you have permission to redistribute any art involved.

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2017, 03:21:08 PM »
Hi Y'all.

The 28th was anniversary of the initial release of Danmaku!! It's been an entire year and no one died everything that happened is our fault.

To celebrate we're introducing a new mechanic that comes with Lunatic Extra: Extra Characters

Quote from: Extra Characters
Some cards in Lunatic Extra allow you to have more than one Character card at the same time. While every player has just one Character, a player may gain one or more Extra Characters, allowing a player to use the Abilities or Spell Cards of those Extra Characters.

You gain Extra Characters when a card tells you to recruit an Extra Character. To recruit an Extra Character, you shuffle all of the unused Character cards, and draw two. Look at those cards and choose one to keep. That Extra Character has now been recruited. Put the other Character card back in the unused character pile. The card that tells you to recruit an Extra Character will specify whether you gain that character?s Ability, Spell Card, or both.

You lose an Extra Character when a card tells you to dismiss an Extra Character. When you dismiss an Extra Character, shuffle that card back into the Extra Character pile. There is no discard pile for Extra Characters, so you can potentially draw that character again later in the same game.

There are several ways to get an Extra Character: your role (Tag Team), your character?s Ability (Houjuu Nue), or certain Items (Tanuki Leaf). You can have more than one of these at the same time, meaning you can potentially have many Extra Characters all at once.

Each card that grants you an Extra Character works independently. Remember which Extra Character is associated with each source. If one source gives you an Extra Character?s Ability, it only counts the one you recruited from that source. If that source tells you to dismiss your Extra Character, you only dismiss the Extra Characters granted by that source.

Effects that tell you to choose a player or their Character do not allow you to choose Extra Characters. For instance, you cannot use Capture Spell Card to activate the spell card of an Extra Character.

To illustrate these mechanics working in Lunatic Extra, here are 2.5 new cards. Houjuu Nue, Lone Wolf/Tag Team.

Houjuu Nue is based on the popular RPG concept of a Barrier Change Boss. Her Ability gives her 2 random Abilities from other characters, which are then randomized on hit. Her Spell Card allows her to optimize herself, allowing you to essentially choose between 6 Abilities (The 2 you have, plus the 4 you can choose from)

Lone Wolf/Tag Team is the mechanic-focused Extra Boss in Lunatic Extra. I've mentioned before but now you'll see it actually happening: Every expansion comes with at least one new Extra Boss related to that expansion's mechanics. Tag Team allows you to recruit an Extra Character permanently, such is the strength of yuri.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 03:26:18 PM by Moogs Parfait »

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2017, 08:35:44 PM »
To celebrate we're introducing a new mechanic that comes with Lunatic Extra: Extra Characters

Houjuu Nue is based on the popular RPG concept of a Barrier Change Boss. Her Ability gives her 2 random Abilities from other characters, which are then randomized on hit. Her Spell Card allows her to optimize herself, allowing you to essentially choose between 6 Abilities (The 2 you have, plus the 4 you can choose from)

Lone Wolf/Tag Team is the mechanic-focused Extra Boss in Lunatic Extra. I've mentioned before but now you'll see it actually happening: Every expansion comes with at least one new Extra Boss related to that expansion's mechanics. Tag Team allows you to recruit an Extra Character permanently, such is the strength of yuri.

Interesting mechanic. I can't wait to try it out some time!
Some of the more noteworthy/ fun combinations I could think up:
  • Suika + Nitori = all the stats.
  • Reimu + Flandre = certain item destruction
  • Remilia + Yukari = Eternal Dodge Reflector (given that both abilities trigger for the same dodge)
  • Tenshi + anyone = cards!  :derp: (especially if Okuu manages to draw Tenshi as her Tag Team Partner)
  • Keine + Marisa = ... got no fancy name, but I mean, you can steal an item and still basically get two cards if you have a dead cards in your hand
  • Tag team: Marisa + Alice/ Futo = Malice Canon (after all, they allow Marisa to not discard Item cards on hit, making her Master Spark into a fearsome weapon)
  • Byakuren + Reisen = ... not working, because to trigger, Reisen needs to play a card, Byakuren discards it to counter. I'm kind of disappointed now. xD
  • Reisen + Reimu = Card loss for everyone

And then there are Sakuya, Suika, Yuuka, Reimu and Youmu.
  • Sakuya/ Suika + Youmu = Limitless attacks
  • Sakuya/ Suika/ Youmu + Yuuka = Overflowing card draw
  • Sakuya/ Suika + Reimu = One Turn Kill
  • Youmu + Reimu = No Fun Police
  • Reimu + Yuuka = draw value
  • Tag Team: Marisa + Reimu = Wide Master (AKA "I hope you have a bomb")
  • Tag Team: Sanae/ Utsuho + Reimu = Homing Spell Card (AKA "I REALLY hope you have a bomb")

... this seems incredibly fun already. xD

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2017, 04:11:47 PM »
I'm glad everyone is so hype for Extra Characters. =D

Quote from: Sumireko Update
Do you always have a Voile handy for Lily White? Do you topdeck into 1 Up three times in a row? Does Supernatural Border read ?You win the game? to you? Well we?ve got a character card for you. Introducing the first Sealing Club president, Usami Sumireko!



Sumireko allows you to use your psychic powers to win hard in Danmaku!! Average monkeys only get a 33% extra card draw out of her, but with your abilities 33% sounds like 100% doesn?t it?

Her spell card furthers these abilities, by reading the cards in your opponents hand, you can know just when to strike.

Also! We were interviewed by the Totally Touhou podcast, where we talk more about Lunatic Extra and its Lunatic Deck, the history of Danmaku!!, and about organizing your own doujin group.

https://soundcloud.com/user-451812850/episode-5-danmaku-with-mystery-parfait

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2017, 02:35:57 AM »
Call me the Necrodiva, I'll sing this thread to life.

We've started taking preorders for Lunatic Extra. You can also try out the expansion via Tabletop Simulator or our Print and Play demo. Preordering guarantees you the bonus character, Suntan Cirno, and preorders will be open till August 31st.

Contents of the expansion include:
24 Character Cards, doubling the roster to 48.
20 Battle Deck cards
2 new Extra Bosses and 1 replacement for Phantom Boss
40 Lunatic Deck cards
1 Instruction Manual with new rules for Lunatic Extra


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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2017, 08:28:51 AM »
After a long absence in the field of Danmaku! and a transfer to Linux because I got sick of Windows 10 and it's crap, I'm ready to jump back into this. I'll be testing to see if I can use TTS without my compy utterly failing at it, so everyone look forward to that.

Also, a simple question for Moogs or anyone who's watching this thread: Koishi has the power to negate a player's passive. How would that interact with Nue's passive?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2017, 03:22:35 PM »
Nue retains her extra characters but none of them have any effect.

BTW we're at Comiket this Friday with the Japanese version of Danmaku!!,East Hall Ra 59-a

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Re: Danmaku!! Lunatic Extra
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2017, 03:24:45 PM »
BTW we're at Comiket this Friday with the Japanese version of Danmaku!!,East Hall Ra 59-a
at Comiket this Friday with the Japanese version of Danmaku!!
Japanese version
Wow. Do you already have hints how the Eastern fans will judge Danmaku!! ?

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Re: Danmaku!! @ Comiket Day 1 (Friday) East Hall Ra 59-a
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2017, 04:37:19 PM »
Most of our hints are from Japanese people who were studying in America abroad, they comprise part of the alpha test group we've been using, they like it well enough to come to AX with us and promote.  :3 I hope the people at Comiket do not see Danmaku!!'s non-TCG format as a negative. In the West it's definitely seen as a plus.

Also we've had the Japanese version available for awhile, I took it out of the store because people would mistakenly order it.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 04:44:50 PM by Moogs Parfait »