Topic: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers  (Read 32453 times)

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nyttyn

  • Drill baby drill!
Neither FS nor WaHH have clarified anything, no. That being said while we'll know for sure in a few months give or take, I'm running off the assumption that, like how they learned how to control urban legends in ULiL, the cast will learn before the events of the game how to use the possession phenomenon. If that assumption's wrong then all my guesses will be automatically wrong too (or at least, if they're correct, not for the reasons I guessed.).

As for one specific person - while it's pretty much garnered it'll be that way for the story mode I really hope it isn't for VS mode. The whole 'tag team' aspect would become extremely bland if you had no choice of who to pair. Of course this being Tasofro I would not be surprised if it was locked in stone even in VS mode.

Also yes, the urban legend system will be continuing. ACoF is a extension/continuation of that plot/mechanic, that much is already confirmed. It'll probably just build on/refine on it like Hisou did for SWR.

Edit: Though honestly, it's tasofro. If they don't push for at least some fanservice-y pairs I will be 200% shocked.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 07:57:29 pm by nyttyn »

Serela

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I would be -very- surprised if tag teams were concrete in versus, considering 15 characters already have full standalone sprites/moves/etc, along with the explanation that "it'd be a waste to have so many characters when you only use one, so let's do tag teams!". They'll likely only be concrete in story mode.

Besides, that would mean there is effectively only 10 characters, not 20, it seems like something that may have been mentioned by now. Granted, we don't know that much game info yet, but still.

And while the urban legend system continues, that's more of a plot device (And meaning that the occult moves may remain in some form) than otherwise; the occult BALLS are gone, so we shouldn't need to worry about having weather... again. Probably. Hopefully. At the least we won't need to chase balls during it if it does return.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

andykhang

  • Nickname: wind priest
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I guess in exchange for lesser storyline, they would instead pad each storyline a bit more to compensate player time, or we could play flipped perceptive of each tag team.

As for Sagume, I mean she is too strong the same reason that the Lunarian is too strong: They're story-breaker element, in ZUN perceptive. The moment they're in, even if the law is follow, the narrative of the game isn't confine in gensokyo anymore (which is the main anesthetic of the entire series it build up on), but with something else. Even in the case of touhou 15, we didn't suddenly played with a lunarian character tasked to take back the holy land or anything, even though they're the entire reason, because in the end it's the problem they have to solve as usual.

Plubio

  • 宇宙少年
  • Nickname: capsule
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And ZUN doesn't put OP foreigner into the game.

Keep in mind ZUN also said Sanae wouldn't be playable in a game because she's a very strong character. He can change his mind at will to be quite honest.
Besides, while I do personally believe Watatsukis are kinda strong to be in a game, Sagume was defeated during LoLK using Spellcard rules — isn't this Gensokyo's premise?
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Serela

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Hecatia was beaten in LoLK too, but more or less, some of these characters are holding back a LOT in the spellcard fights. It's also hard to imagine a story mode where the person you're playing is like extrafinal boss status and basically just fooling around when it comes to the fights. Theoretically, it can work, but... I don't think it's likely they'd do it.

Although yeah the Watatsukis are mary-sues and furthermore don't really have interest in holding back, so even with spellcard rules it wouldn't be realistic to have them in a game unless Eirin's ultramarine elixir was involved. As ZUN said, it was along the lines of "They can't be in a game because that'd mean you have to be able to beat them." Sagume and Hecatia are at least up for fooling around.

Quote
I guess in exchange for lesser storyline, they would instead pad each storyline a bit more to compensate player time, or we could play flipped perceptive of each tag team.
Several of the story modes in other games were already highly inconsequential, and 10 is still plenty (and as many as some of the touhou fighters have had) so I don't imagine that'd be necessary. The "padding" in fighting games generally comes from versus play anyway; the story modes are still cool but I can hardly see them going "We need to pad out the story mode content more!".
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

nyttyn

  • Drill baby drill!
It's not even a stretch when we already have Yukari's story route in IaMP and SWR, which is basically Slayer. The entire point of the spell card rules is to allow ZUN to make whatever dumb extraturbosuperultra powers he wants and still not have to worry about power levels, with few exceptions (which he seems to not particularly care much about following anyway so who knows with him). At this point I'd honestly not even be surprised if the Watatasukis showed up with some sort of retcon or other crippling factor to their power - I don't expect it, mind, but very few things should be surprising from this man anymore I think.

I WILL be surprised if Yuugi doesn't make a showing though. She's already showed up in an ending which is as foreshadow-y as it gets and honestly with Nitori (for Oni servitude jokes), Shinmyoumaru (Mythology gag + playing off small vs large) and Kasen in the roster I'd be exceptionally shocked if they don't go for it. Something like 300%.

Suspicious person

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Keep in mind ZUN also said Sanae wouldn't be playable in a game because she's a very strong character. He can change his mind at will to be quite honest.
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yada yada spellcard
Pretty much this. I don't really believe that being "overpowered" should be considered as an exclusion criteria for any character to be in any game *cough*Mokou*cough* ESPECIALLY if the premises of the game this time is that the enemy is TOO STRONG you actually need to team up to beat her down.

There are already plenty of OP characters who can do just fine in the games, even in the shooter ones. How is the issue of being overpowered tackled in these ? Through various character related motives : just a test, playing around, not feeling motivated, you name it... in this game for example, we should get a "took 2 of you to beat me" approach toward the supposedly OP new character.

Point is, fitting an OP character into a game really shouldn't be a problem at all : making it coherent would be the challenge toward creativity. Which ain't that hard.

Anyway, there'll be one guaranteed OP character : that'd be the villain in this game's plot : now the issue of being overpowered comes in the question of how to not only make the character balanced (gameplay wise) while STILL giving the message that she is pretty strong (cuz Touhou lore gotta be respected, y'know). And I say there might just be one way to do that :

See the ULiL interview in Strange CoOW and how some things were in ULiL ? It kinda gives the impression that there are a few ideas that Tasofro didn't get to implement in ULiL, like have Reimu have a hopeless boss battle against Sumireko's shadow for example ; and some other stuff they actually got to put in the PS4 one, such as battling EX Mokou or EX Sumireko in arcade overdrive : these are pretty OK ways of handling the issue. Just a challenge towards creativity.

It'd be pretty cool if Tasofro got to put those ideas in this game. Hopefully they will :ohdear:
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 03:57:54 pm by Suspicious person »
Hanako is still in ULiL.
The release actually considers Sumireko as 2 distinct characters. The shadow at the end of Reimu's intro is called hanako, and her assets folder only contains the sprite for her shadow and a few more things. And the game has another character, usami, which contains the actual Sumireko used in all other scenarios and in VS mode.
Maybe they were just lazy to merge them into a single character. Maybe they actually wanted her to be someone else. We probably will never know.

And about AoFC datamining, I don't think I'll work on the demo, because my goal when working on the ULiL demo was to prepare ULiL patching, and they changed their file format for the release. Maybe someone else will do it (if we have a demo)? Or maybe the ULiL tools will work on the AoFC demo?

mauve

  • Nickname: mauve'
they probably just didn't merge.

iamp yukari's sprite pack contain a bunch of reimu's for the border scene story.

laziness is the sign of a developer that gets things done.

CrystalCreation

  • Nickname: Creation
ESPECIALLY if the premises of the game this time is that the enemy is TOO STRONG you actually need to team up to beat her down.

...

Anyway, there'll be one guaranteed OP character : that'd be the villain in this game's plot : now the issue of being overpowered comes in the question of how to not only make the character balanced (gameplay wise) while STILL giving the message that she is pretty strong (cuz Touhou lore gotta be respected, y'know). And I say there might just be one way to do that :
I don’t think the culprit not being defeatable by a solo fighter has anything to do with power. The series had plenty of really powerful characters all of which could be defeated by a single heroine. It wouldn’t make sense to suddenly introduce an even more powerful character who could somehow overpower every protagonist.

I expect AoCF to have another situation like LoLKs fairy invasion. Fairies are by no means stronger than lunarians, yet a whole army of them on the moon can render the lunarians helpless due to the fairies impurity. Even though lunarians are the strongest known species and fairies are one of the weakest, the fairies can still set them checkmate under the right circumstances.

The culprit in AoCF likely has an ability or some other means to set any solo fighter checkmate regardless of power. But once the heroines can circumvent that ability via perfect possession then the culprit probably won’t be much stronger than the average final boss.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 06:59:50 pm by CrystalCreation »

Plubio

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Speaking of demos, I've been thinking about the more-than-probable TH16 getting its demo released alongside AoCF demo on Reitaisai, and both getting their full release at Comiket.
Weird but not impossible (technically Soku was released the same day as UFO but well).

Just wondering, tho.
  • Suzunaan

mauve

  • Nickname: mauve'
i wonder if the demo will run on my computer without having to fire up the debugger to take care of whatever misguided anti-hacking measure they did this time.

that sure would be nice.

OrbOrigin

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The culprit in AoCF likely has an ability or some other means to set any solo fighter checkmate regardless of power. But once the heroines can circumvent that ability via perfect possession then the culprit probably won’t be much stronger than the average final boss.

It could be the main culprit has an ability to transfer someone's mind and soul from one body to another body. This might explains why sudden strangeness happen during the climax of Reisen's scenario in PS4 exclusive ULiL. Apparently, the culprit seems trying to take an advantage during the wake of Urban Legend Incident, and thus the Perfect Possession Incident happens.

andykhang

  • Nickname: wind priest
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For the Sagume thing again: I said ZUN doesn't like putting OP foreigner as the player roster, I don't said just OP alone. Yukari and Sanae (I don't think she's that OP anyway) can still be there because they're residents of Gensokyo, more or less, and thus the narrative of Gensokyo's perceptive is still preserve. If you put someone like the Watatsukis in the roster, the narrative naturally have to be shifted to the Lunarian perceptive, breaking the heavily establish theme of the game. I don't know if ZUN want to do that or not for his game right now, but the pattern is consistent.

andykhang

  • Nickname: wind priest
  • Gender: male
It could be the main culprit has an ability to transfer someone's mind and soul from one body to another body. This might explains why sudden strangeness happen during the climax of Reisen's scenario in PS4 exclusive ULiL. Apparently, the culprit seems trying to take an advantage during the wake of Urban Legend Incident, and thus the Perfect Possession Incident happens.

If so, I guess some unlucky indivitual of the cast is going to be possessed by the boss, and we have to fight them instead of the one we fight before. It would be consistent with the theme, and you could get away with having only 1 boss.

OrbOrigin

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  • Nickname: EleanorHolzapfel
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If so, I guess some unlucky individual of the cast is going to be possessed by the boss, and we have to fight them instead of the one we fight before. It would be consistent with the theme, and you could get away with having only 1 boss.

Especially if one of ULiL participant is a key character in AoCF i.e. the culprit/final boss' main target.

When we talking about the culprit/final boss' ability, her ability is not only able to transfer someone's soul to another body, but also hijacking the unfortunate victim with her body surf-like abilities, effectively becoming her puppet in process. Hence the word "possession" on its Japanese title.

There's an implication when the events of ULiL still ongoing, the culprit (outside from Sagume's Lunarian mass migration plan) secretly analyze each participants' urban legend, and Sumireko is no exception. Then, in Reisen's scenario, the culprit makes her movement by tampering every participant's urban legend, along with their mind, body and soul. If this happens to Reimu and Mokou, then its implied the same phenomenon also happens to Byakuren and Miko as well, along with others.

Lt Colonel Summers

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Even though we currently have absolutely no information on the final boss of AoCF, I keep thinking that future fanworks will make her an expy of, or even crossover-ship her with Agent Smith from The Matrix movies, what's with the whole perfect possession thing being very similar to the Agents' possession skills...
A CYOA with an often disliked character! Yorihime Quest. Running now!
Also check out the CYOA starring our favorite High School Girl ESPer! Sumireko Quest. Running Now!

OrbOrigin

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  • Nickname: EleanorHolzapfel
  • Gender: Male
Or someone like the second Colorless King fromK anime.
 

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