Author Topic: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers  (Read 520427 times)

From what I am hearing alot about this game what people have speculated, it would seem rather cool for a tag fighting system to be in the game. When I heard of the title of the game, my first thoughts were Yuuka, Medicine, and Rin Satsuki for some random reason (maybe because one of her spellcards were named "Flower Sign" when people found the game data).

Since this game focuses on previous characters that haven't appeared in the fighting games, I do hope characters that lack any information like Koakuma and Momiji to appear since we barely know much about them besides the fact that they have appeared in a few games.
out of the three you listed Rin satsuki is the lest likely to show up i would say even less likely then some of the pc98 characters that are not yuuka alice marisa or reimu showing up in new games .

as for the tag battle system ya from the discription it seems heavly implied that its using it.
honestly with a title like Eastern Flowers of Possession

reminds me of when the
Spoiler:
spirits were possessing flowers
in touhou 9

(speaking of possession wasn't there something about evil spirits being able to change a youkais nature in one of the games?)

it could be yuuka or even shiki eiki



but my main prediction is the game will involve flowers that Posses people
or flowers being possessed

Zuns titles tell you a lot about the plot of his games

look at urban legned in limbo
 
Spoiler:
limbo was gensoyku if you look at it. it is kind of a limbo
and Urban legends from the outside world were falling into it.
there was also a limbo in a sense that it involved going between both gensyoku and the outside world







Komeiji11

  • The Gloomy Power of Love
Quote
Speaking of which, at least one LoLK character is more or less guranteed to be in the game, right? Any thoughts on who it might be, and what their Urban Legend is?
I kind of expect  to see Doremi since she's like the overwatcher of dreams and it sounds like this is connected to dreams... But I expected to see Yukari in ULiL and we saw what that situation is like. I'm really hoping we get to see more Sagume though. If not her than Junko.

Lt Colonel Summers

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • Do not mess with a soldier
I kind of expect  to see Doremi since she's like the overwatcher of dreams and it sounds like this is connected to dreams... But I expected to see Yukari in ULiL and we saw what that situation is like. I'm really hoping we get to see more Sagume though. If not her than Junko.

Eirin had stated
Spoiler:
in PS4 ULiL's Extra Ending
that Sagume and the Lunarians have nothing to do with whatever Incident that will be the focus of AoCF, and Doremy is working for the Lunarians, last I checked.

So unless one of the final bosses of AoCF is going to be another renegade Lunarian so obscure even Eirin doesn't know about, or the Lunarians decide to take advantage of the Incident for whatever reason, I don't think Doremy, Sagume and Junko will be appearing in AoCF as playables...
Yukari... I don't think Gap Hag even cares about what the Lunarians almost did to Gensokyo in LoLK...
There's nothing inscribed on the dog tag...

~Shin Kuroi~

  • Sleepy Cat
  • fuwaaa... sleepy...
but my main prediction is the game will involve flowers that Posses people
or flowers being possessed

Zuns titles tell you a lot about the plot of his games


hmmnn... flowers that possess people? that sounds interesting. i feel like yuuka would be the second tew last boss in most scenarios due tew the pointing of fingers at her since it'd be 'flowers' being the cause for the incident, but it might be a longshot... i mean, mamizou was a bit unexpected in hopeless masquerade if i recall.

but it's confirmed for a fighting game, right? when i first saw the word 'flower', i automatically thought of PoFV. i wouldn't mind another PoFV, but... i like fighting games a lot... even if i'm super bad at them x.x'
yawn...

It will be really cool if AoCF is a game of another genre, like Puzzle, Horizontal Shooting or Beat 'n Up (like Grief Syndrome).

Drake

  • *
They said on announcement that it was a fighting game with the same engine as ULiL.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

~Shin Kuroi~

  • Sleepy Cat
  • fuwaaa... sleepy...
They said on announcement that it was a fighting game with the same engine as ULiL.

huh... i must of missed that. thanks for clarifying!
yawn...

out of the three you listed Rin satsuki is the lest likely to show up i would say even less likely then some of the pc98 characters that are not yuuka alice marisa or reimu showing up in new games .

as for the tag battle system ya from the discription it seems heavly implied that its using it.
honestly with a title like Eastern Flowers of Possession

reminds me of when the
Spoiler:
spirits were possessing flowers
in touhou 9

(speaking of possession wasn't there something about evil spirits being able to change a youkais nature in one of the games?)

it could be yuuka or even shiki eiki



but my main prediction is the game will involve flowers that Posses people
or flowers being possessed

Zuns titles tell you a lot about the plot of his games

look at urban legned in limbo
 
Spoiler:
limbo was gensoyku if you look at it. it is kind of a limbo
and Urban legends from the outside world were falling into it.
there was also a limbo in a sense that it involved going between both gensyoku and the outside world

I am very aware Rin Satsuki will (99.9%) never appear in a Touhou Game ever, but it never hurts to believe that rejected character might possibly appear in a Touhou game. She might not appear as "Rin Satsuki", but she might be made into a completely new character.

But anyways, yeah, this incident seems a little similar to Touhou 9, so I am also guessing it may or may not be related to that incident too.

I also remember hearing hearing about spirits also being able to change a youkais nature, but I am not sure where either.

PK

  • Border of Whatever
I also remember hearing hearing about spirits also being able to change a youkais nature, but I am not sure where either.
It was said on SoPM, but it was about vengeful spirits (they say the possession becomes complete, so you have the youkai's body with a completely new mind/conscience/personality forever). Assuming the "possession" they talk about in AoCF is just what happened to Reimu ad Mokou during ULiL Extra, i don't see any spirit involved, and is definitely different from the vengeful spirit possession.

A little thing i noticed is that Reimu and Mokou have the same red/white color scheme, i wonder if it means anything.

Lt Colonel Summers

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • Do not mess with a soldier
A little thing i noticed is that Reimu and Mokou have the same red/white color scheme, i wonder if it means anything.

Just thought of that today and was about to point it out too. But you beat me to it...  :V
There's nothing inscribed on the dog tag...

Guess it's correlation more than anything. I guess the teleport worked with the one that have the most relevant trait first (red-white, headstrong and stubborn, human-yet-not-exactly)

Edit: In other word, people that have the same type of spirit basically. Plus Reimu's job is letting people possess her, so she the first target, and Mokou isn't exactly the type that would care deeply about her body...
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 12:10:39 PM by andykhang »

If i remember correctly, in EoSD Reimu is stated to be able to control Auras, think there is some connection ?
(also, if the Hakurei Miko aka the most important person of gensokyo can be possesed that easily, i find it a bit scary tbh)

Nebulae--Addict

  • hatsune the fuck
i had another AoCF dream y'all

this time it was revealed that every character from LoLK to IN would be playables, and i was like "wait what whAT" and then it was revealed that AoCF was some bad 3D game, i'm pretty glad it's a dream.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 01:56:21 PM by Nebulae--Addict »
pls rember that wen u feel scare or frigten
never forget ttimes wen u feeled happy
wen day is dark alway rember happy day

Lt Colonel Summers

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • Do not mess with a soldier
I just realized this crucial point...

When
Spoiler:
Mokou's soul possessed Reimu in ULiL PS4 Extra, what happened to Mokou's own body? Is her body left as a soulless husk, or has Mokou's soul switched places with Reimu's?
There's nothing inscribed on the dog tag...

Good question, but i"m pretty sure Reimu's soul replaced Mokou's, and vice-verca. To me, it looked like the bodies were physically switched more than only the soul going from one body to another.

Drake

  • *
A lot of people think it looks like body-swapping, but that's just a superficial view of it. There's likely a reason why it's officially being called "possession" rather than "swapping" despite being described as swapping.

Chirorian's theory is that while they were sleeping, Mokou's dream soul possessed Reimu's body, and for the time being Mokou's real body would have been without that dream soul, but there'd actually be two Mokous. Apparently the ending suggests that maybe the swap wasn't perfect, so Reimu didn't invade Mokou's body at the time. Anyways, they're unconvinced that it's actually a body-swapping thing.

If you read WaHH 29 and 35 you'll get an inkling of what might be happening, but here are my thoughts. It's still kind of unclear though.

When Sumireko first started coming to Gensokyo, somebody sleeping would have their own dream soul displaced by Sumireko's, and it would just wander around afterwards. Eventually she "displaces" entire human villagers while they're sleeping, but they seem to kind of stop existing while Sumireko takes their place, and they're returned in their entirety in the same place they were sleeping. Basically my take on this is that their dream soul is displaced from their body by Sumireko's own dream soul, and the physical space their body takes up is used by Sumireko to sustain her own form. Meanwhile, the villager's dream soul just kind of wanders in the meantime, and Sumireko's actual body is left without its own dream soul.

Sumireko's location in Gensokyo doesn't seem to depend on the villager's, which is a major difference from this new possession, but the concept is similar: Mokou's dream soul possessing Reimu displaces hers from her body, and the space Reimu's body takes up is used by Mokou to become Mokou. Mokou's real body is still where it was, without her dream soul, and Reimu's dream soul is off wandering. This doubly makes sense if you suppose that a perfect possession would have the two people swap entirely, since they'd essentially be swapping dream souls, and the bodies (which are similar) change form to become the possessor's.

Surely a lot more confusing than lel body-swap, but yeah.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 11:00:05 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Huh...if that were true though, Junko would have killed it for her to be able to swap to Chang'e's body... could it be though? Well, that would make sense why Reimu's getting muscle pain all over her body, since Mokou's method of using...tend not to have a healthy result, and kind of support my theory that Yukari is hiding the true cause of this by making that up. Still, if it is the kind of plan with someone of Yukari's caliber involve, those dream soul aren't going to wander, or at least the wandering is the first step.

Drake

  • *
I don't think Yukari is making anything up so much as it's progressed into a different thing altogether. The urban legends are involved in some way, at least.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

But then the way she execute the solution for Humaned Away is strange, like the rest of it. Instead of just the same amount of material, Humaned Away is the result of Sumireko, which doesn't make sense if only the material is needed, and only the dummy body is required. It's like she said "I know what you're doing, you dummy" to someone, i presume, doing all of this. Yet she leave them alone, and even cover their track.

Drake

  • *
Um, but the dummy with similar physical attributes to Sumireko, and some fake dreams, are all that's needed.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

She could have give some rock of a similar weight and gave it dream and shit and it still work. It doesn't need to be human-shaped, if the pattern is followed...More over, where does that spell of exchange even coming from? If it from Sumireko, then the lesser shock thing doesn't make sense, if it from Yukari, Kasen should have known it, so that only leave the hand of a third-party, unless you assume the barrier have some built-in law for that (which, if Kasen being Sage is true, should have know).

Drake

  • *
You sure are assuming an awful lot.
- I don't think anything in the manga leads to suggests that a rock would be fine, especially considering the whole problem was that she was taking the place of human villagers. If anything, the substitutes Yukari plans to use might be closer to human than inanimate, given how she avoids the subject of what the dummies would actually be.
- It is implied that the whole exchange mechanism is a natural part of the Barrier's function just by the way they talk about it. Yukari's suggestion is that they can't get around it, so she'd prepare a way to not get the villagers caught up in it. This makes sense.
- Kasen is also already established to not be all that familiar with the Barrier, considering she spends between the start of WaHH and ULiL trying to get outside, and had previously imagined it as a big dome around Gensokyo. At this point she seems to know just enough about manipulating the Barrier to be meddlesome. Being a "sage" doesn't seem to imply that the person was important for the Barrier specifically, but maybe they were important for other key parts of the youkai expansion project? We have close to zero information about what being a "sage" means, so finding out that Kasen is one doesn't actually reveal that much.

I'm not sure where you're even trying to go with this. I can't tell if you find that theory objectionable in some way or not because your comments are kind of all over the place.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 05:44:30 PM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Yeah, and why does she want it that way? If according to the previous pattern, it's kind of a big jump in logic, since that's assuming the barrier is actually getting worse and demand more sacrifices, a thing I'll bet Yukari want to permanently eliminated (It's not like it will be strange if some canon-fied characters mysteriously dissappear in there).Also I'll combine point 2 and 3 to point out that only Yukari herself implied this to her, since she the only one that know throughly how the barriers work. Which put alot of doubt into her statement since she's known to be a constant lier that like to manipulate people to her whim.

Point is, I suspect Yukari blatantly lied about Humaned Away, from how it goes to the cause, to hide the fact that some third party (the new bosses) is the one that do all of this (or taken advantegous of). While at the same time, using the dummy to warn them, baited them into action.

Drake

  • *
Yukari lying about some things to flush a culprit out is an interesting take and not out of the realm of possibility. However, we know Sumireko was displacing people's dream souls in order to come to Gensokyo, and those people had to be asleep already. Then when the people's bodies were being displaced, it was also while they were asleep, and the disappearances coincided with Sumireko's appearance. That's a pretty clear connection and it doesn't make much sense to write it in just to fool the readers.

I also have to correct myself about there being "nothing suggesting rocks are acceptable", since before she was displacing people's bodies she was displacing smaller objects, although we didn't see it. But it's clear that the best exchange is an exchange closest to being equal, so displacing people is better than displacing rocks.

I don't think of it as the Barrier "getting worse" either. Yukari suggests that the exchange is more stable now than it was before, where bringing Sumireko over the Barrier used to be costly from the imbalance between what comes in and what goes out, but now is not as costly because the exchange is more balanced. It doesn't make sense for the Barrier to demand any more now that the exchanges with Sumireko are as equal as possible. The dummies are made to be the most equal option to swap with, so that's just what she's be swapping with from now on.

I mean, Yukari shenanigans can still be happening, but the explanation of the issue with Sumireko already makes sense.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Hm...perhap you're right. Still, when Yukari said that someone must have guided her there, I don't think she's talking about Kasen at all being the cause, since not even she know the Humaned Away. Well, perhap the culprit could be take this phenomenon by chance though, but I doubt it. (Though that would lead to either someone else (maybe in 16?), or Yukari )
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 12:33:00 PM by andykhang »

Onion

  • Classic era Marisa-like entity
  • Failing at Touhou since 2000-something
Okay: could somebody please summarize everything from Reisen's ULiL story forward, for me? The thread is long, there's lots of speculation, and the wiki page just translates Tasforo's.

And in the tune of speculations, I went over to KimikoMuffin's pairing generator, and generated some STRONGEST pairings for the game. If anybody's worried about recent additions showing up, my first pairing was

Reimu Hakurei x Hecatia Lapislazuli

so I think we're fine. For Touhou 15.5, our duos shall be:

Hina Kagiyama ? Ruukoto       
Oh yeah, I included PC-98. No need to eliminate options!
Sariel ? Mamizou Futatsuiwa       
Why would Futatsuiwa ever need to swap?
Unzan ? Remilia Scarlet       
Sounds like Ichirin and Remilia swapped.
Luize ? Benben Tsukumo       
...I don't know either of these.
Sara ? Chiyuri Kitashirakawa         
I'd rather not, if only because of that name.
Ran Yakumo ? Kogasa Tatara       
Seems legit
Hong Meiling ? Watatsuki no Toyohime       
Legitness intensifies
Ellen ? Mugetsu       
Ellen has her own box on the generator... I wonder why.
Please wait warmly. Girls are intentionally leaving this space blank.

Since everybody has these: 1CC PoDD ez, 1CC(?) EoSD ez, PD LoLK, something something HM ULiL

Okay: could somebody please summarize everything from Reisen's ULiL story forward, for me? The thread is long, there's lots of speculation, and the wiki page just translates Tasforo's.

I hope i didn't miss anything, but most of the thread is speculation about whether or not this new game will be a tag-team battle game, and if it is, what would be the possible pairings, seasoned by speculations about new playable characters from previous games  #Mima.

Flandre5carlet

  • Sister of the Devil
  • "So all I have to do is 'kyuu', and..."
    • flan.moe

Yeah i'd kill to see Flan Or Yuuka in that game. Just used Mima here as an example, even though i don't know why she's that popular.

Onion

  • Classic era Marisa-like entity
  • Failing at Touhou since 2000-something
Yeah i'd kill to see Flan Or Yuuka in that game. Just used Mima here as an example, even though i don't know why she's that popular.

Mima was basically THE bad girl for the PC-98 games. Well, she wasn't always, but she was heavily involved with all 5. She was even playable in... Mystic Square? One of the later games. All that importance, all that attention, all that meddling, and...
She's not in 6. In fact, she's never seen again. She's supposedly sealed in some little box thingy at the Hakurei Shrine.
In any case, many people want to see Mima again, because A. she's cool, and B. she was important.

Both Flan and Yuuka are incredibly powerful, which while not dooming them to no fighting game status by any means, I think may hinder their chances. Maybe. Possibly. Mokou made it into ULiL, which I'm a little surprised at. She is human-squishy, but she can only give up, really... (remaining rambling omitted)
Please wait warmly. Girls are intentionally leaving this space blank.

Since everybody has these: 1CC PoDD ez, 1CC(?) EoSD ez, PD LoLK, something something HM ULiL