Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F  (Read 188657 times)

RegalStar

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2016, 03:54:30 PM »
Well Swordmaster does still get the two Warrior spells so they can use Flaming Sword, so Moon Shadow Flash is probably more meant to be an auxillary spell for when elemental affinities favor it, or when someone on the frontline is just one MP short of casting some spell they desperately want to get out right now. And Samidare is still heaps better than Iai Slash  :V

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2016, 04:08:20 PM »
Yeah, an auxillary spell- but the issue is that it's Warrior with none of the useful passives. If the new single-target isn't even all that good, well... it makes it look like you should just use Warrior instead!

Samidare Slash actually looks like a pretty decent skill, considering it's a good AoE for randoms and still strong enough to be good on elemental roulette in bosses. (Why is Severing Flash/Iai Slash so uselessly awful anyway?!) But Moon Shadow Flash would -only- be of any use on nature weak enemies (Sometimes by a pretty small margin if your other attacks aren't resisted, depending) and even then, only because it's less effort than switching to Monk for a much better nature attack with useful passives.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2016, 04:24:02 PM »
To this day, I still don't know why Iai Slash is so weak and slow. I mean, for that sort of low power, you could just reduce its delay(88% post use gauge), cut the cost in half, and it could see actual use as a means to gain buffs via passives(the character's own or Warrior's passives) or something.

Edit: Also, would Moon Shadow Flash be more useful if it was a row targeting spell?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 04:27:52 PM by Kirin no Sora »
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2016, 04:28:37 PM »
It would be more useful if it kept the rev.C bug where it fully restored the user's MP every time it's used  :3

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2016, 04:36:34 PM »
At it's current power it'd be useful if it was -all- target maybe. Otherwise it'd need to either be better power or better delay- depending on whether to improve it's use offensive or it's use mp-support-wise.

I've been thinking about it, meanwhile, and Satori's "deal half current HP as damage to all enemies each time Satori gets a turn" inf. corridor skill sounds pretty high potential... with Plus Disk stuff it could be viable to run her as an HP wall of sorts, she'd deal damage whilst using support skills, you could use Instant Attack people with Small MP Recovery to give her crazy mp flow, and the big one here; use her in tandem with someone like Reisen or Chen and she could blast out actual large irresistable damage with their low-delay self buffs. Maybe even sub her enchanter so it pumps her HP back up, i'unno. Healing a full hp-focused build character in postgame is probably actually kinda hard without % hp healing like that. Chen's got 95% delay and Reisen has a dang 98%, and if you raise Satori's max mp, she can get a buttload off swapping out with an instant attacker and immediately back into the fray. Otherwise you'd probably sub healer for an actual heal skill on the side, with a weaker passive hp regen.

Alternatively if Ninja's Fast Movement delay is low enough, she could solo the damage rush, but you wouldn't have the passive healing and it's delay likely doesn't compare to Chen/Reisen.

She hardly needs her atk/mag/def/mnd in such a build (since her def/mnd is terrible) but the Earth Spirits family skill looks to have serious potential postgame. Proof of Kinship would give +24% stats with ONE member in the front row of 4, Orin gets pretty sweet corridor skills, and Utsuho got buffed moves and has serious potential for lategame tankiness through base stat tweaks and Fighting Spirit to capitalize endless Overheat with.

edit:Got Satori to 85k HP within completely realistic measures at lv178, that'd be workable enough damage to consider... pretty good results in tandem with, say, Reisen. Of course, having to recover the mp enough to blast out a ton of damage again would be a little effort even if Small MP Recovery has heavy potential- high postgame levels and Second MP Boost and mp gems would make it TOTALLY work though. I'd have to be hoping HP-based damage would scale slightly better than atk-based damage and then she'd have serious sweetness potential late postgame.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 04:58:38 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2016, 07:45:56 PM »
I've been thinking about it, meanwhile, and Satori's "deal half current HP as damage to all enemies each time Satori gets a turn" inf. corridor skill sounds pretty high potential... with Plus Disk stuff it could be viable to run her as an HP wall of sorts, she'd deal damage whilst using support skills, you could use Instant Attack people with Small MP Recovery to give her crazy mp flow, and the big one here; use her in tandem with someone like Reisen or Chen and she could blast out actual large irresistable damage with their low-delay self buffs. Maybe even sub her enchanter so it pumps her HP back up, i'unno. Healing a full hp-focused build character in postgame is probably actually kinda hard without % hp healing like that. Chen's got 95% delay and Reisen has a dang 98%, and if you raise Satori's max mp, she can get a buttload off swapping out with an instant attacker and immediately back into the fray. Otherwise you'd probably sub healer for an actual heal skill on the side, with a weaker passive hp regen.

Alternatively if Ninja's Fast Movement delay is low enough, she could solo the damage rush, but you wouldn't have the passive healing and it's delay likely doesn't compare to Chen/Reisen.

She hardly needs her atk/mag/def/mnd in such a build (since her def/mnd is terrible) but the Earth Spirits family skill looks to have serious potential postgame. Proof of Kinship would give +24% stats with ONE member in the front row of 4, Orin gets pretty sweet corridor skills, and Utsuho got buffed moves and has serious potential for lategame tankiness through base stat tweaks and Fighting Spirit to capitalize endless Overheat with.

edit:Got Satori to 85k HP within completely realistic measures at lv178, that'd be workable enough damage to consider... pretty good results in tandem with, say, Reisen. Of course, having to recover the mp enough to blast out a ton of damage again would be a little effort even if Small MP Recovery has heavy potential- high postgame levels and Second MP Boost and mp gems would make it TOTALLY work though. I'd have to be hoping HP-based damage would scale slightly better than atk-based damage and then she'd have serious sweetness potential late postgame.

Burst damage via ultra low delay buffing...

Also, the fact that you stated that percentage based healing is going to be a needed thing to heal high HP targets makes me think of Eirin and her 50% heal. You think that that spell will see some action in late post-game?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2016, 08:26:22 PM »
I created the pages for B1F and B2F on wiki and wrote some provisional info on them. Without a bestiary (or with me being blind and missing it in some obvious place) there are a lot of question marks, and I only have my own experiences to go for on those shadow bosses, so those boss sections will need a lot of work. At least I think I described the dungeons themselves OK.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2016, 02:35:13 AM »
whos a better tank between momiji,tenshi and youmu? gonna replace aya as she is becoming not so useful now that i mostly use SDM party as a opener and sakuya speed buff is party wide.

even better if repeat action trigger

whats the oponion on tokiko skillset so far?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 02:53:11 AM by DarkAtma »

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2016, 03:19:31 AM »
Probably Tenshi? Youmu actually has pretty good physical tankiness and meikyuu shisui is very helpful on that front, but her mind is crap so she can't really tank magic well. Momiji has great stats (best defense growth in the game actually; no idea why it wasn't labelled as such on the wiki), but completely lacks any sort of passives to help her out on that front.

For swordmaster, maybe Yuuka can make decent use of it? Moon Shadow Flash is about the same speed as Flower Shot and is only a little bit less powerful, but with extra attack she can potentially restore a lot of MP to the frontlines, and she at least doesn't care about the buffing passive of Warrior since she buffs herself fast enough without it. She would also like having a decent row target attack to make up for the loss of AoE.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 03:22:43 AM by RegalStar »

Thata no Guykoro

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2016, 05:50:07 AM »
I created the pages for B1F and B2F on wiki and wrote some provisional info on them. Without a bestiary (or with me being blind and missing it in some obvious place) there are a lot of question marks, and I only have my own experiences to go for on those shadow bosses, so those boss sections will need a lot of work. At least I think I described the dungeons themselves OK.
I don't know if this still applies to revision D (haven't had the time to play it) but in revision B, all the entries for the basement floors - both generic enemies and shadow bosses - that I managed to get were shoved in the middle, right between the 20F Depths enemies and the twelve FOEs.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2016, 06:01:58 AM »
I don't know if this still applies to revision D (haven't had the time to play it) but in revision B, all the entries for the basement floors - both generic enemies and shadow bosses - that I managed to get were shoved in the middle, right between the 20F Depths enemies and the twelve FOEs.

Oh, you're right. Thanks; I'll go put them in tomorrow morning.

Well, just a quick thing I noticed: Every shadow boss is classified as a ghost, just like how every normal touhou boss is classified as a human. Youmu finally has something to do~

Otaku

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2016, 09:22:40 AM »
You were writing about bug fixes earlier, and I don't know if I'm just blind or stupid if I missed it, but have the skills on Kanako and Suwako been fixed, cause if my memory serves me right, they had some skills that wasn't working.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2016, 01:14:35 PM »
Burst damage via ultra low delay buffing...

Also, the fact that you stated that percentage based healing is going to be a needed thing to heal high HP targets makes me think of Eirin and her 50% heal. You think that that spell will see some action in late post-game?
If you're running an HP wall, you're probably going to want either Eirin or a MAG build Minoriko/Sanae. Reimu/Rumia/Maribel certainly aren't going to cut it for people with x5+ as much HP as the rest of the party. (MAYBE Maribel would vaguely work if  enhancer lets her double-dip both it's passives with her buff+heal combo DIY Novice Barrier- not an entirely bad build if her infinite corridor skill synergizes with enhancer. IF.)

At least Komachi can get massive HP regen? People say she's a really good tank but I haven't tried her TBH, so I don't know how it goes.

Healer Eirin is amazing for limit breaker anyway, so, sure thing. We'll see how mag/hp scale later into postgame, whether that keeps running strong or not. Healer's heal did get cut nearly in half, but she can still totally overheal for more than most people's max HP at the end of non-plus postgame, which is still preeeetty sweet- especially on any lower hp characters who get a whole lot more than their normal max out of it. And with her mind piercing, she's a pretty decent attacker at the same time (since you want plenty of MAG for overheal as it is- she's already bulky enough to easily live to overheal herself)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 01:24:03 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2016, 03:41:42 PM »
Tested Archmage spells. Southern Cross seems to be around the neighborhood of 200-82.5 or so (I can't really pin down the exact formula), while Execution I'm fairly certain is 240.25-77.5, just a tiiiiiiny bit more powerful than Explosive Flame Sword.

Also, now that I'm looking at Blood Sword's description in Nitori's menu, I think it's actually "recover 4% HP when attacking (with anything)", rather than recover 4% of damage, which would make a lot more sense. Remilia and Flandre's endless corridor Vampire Attack is probably the same.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 03:47:53 PM by RegalStar »

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2016, 04:00:27 PM »
Also, now that I'm looking at Blood Sword's description in Nitori's menu, I think it's actually "recover 4% HP when attacking (with anything)", rather than recover 4% of damage, which would make a lot more sense. Remilia and Flandre's endless corridor Vampire Attack is probably the same.

By "anything", you mean that spells will work with it? Because that would more useful for a fast attacker than a strong one(Iku is both thanks to her spells and passives, but details)...
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2016, 04:43:49 PM »
The original text means something like "offensive action", so I'd imagine any attack will work with it. Meiling's Brilliant Light Gem can probably combo with it nicely (and that spell's also appreciating the fact that fighting plus disk bosses no longer feel like trying to bash your head against a titanium wall. Or several titanium walls).

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2016, 05:27:34 PM »
Archmage sounds worth using for some characters. High cost and delay, but that's much better than being weak but decent speed like Moon Shadow Flash, and it's useful alltargets for randoms. Yuuka especially would really love that class... actual elemental variety and she really isn't going to miss Sorceror's buffs too much with her own self-buffing expertise. I think it'll work nicely subbed on Maribel with her grand incantation and need for more stuff, but I'll miss the mag buffs a little bit even so... I'll give it a whirl and see how I like it. Hmm, come to think of it, she already HAS a good dark spell, so maybe she's fine on Sorceror after all...

Recovering part of your max HP makes a lot more sense, yeah... I was thinking Remilia went from underwhelming to a little -too- exciting sounding with that passive. Definitely still a neat item. It might be interesting on Extra Attackers!

...she wouldn't use Blood Sword, but Minoriko can get 16% hp regen with only her passives (inf. corridor- extra 6% regen that will overheal up to 150% max hp) and is fairly speedy... maybe where she really shines is with tweaking up her max HP. Her other corridor skill combines both her support skills into one (using one casts lv1 of the other; aka Owotoshi Harvester becomes a 70% delay power heal with 57% def/mnd buff), and then she can sub for either more support as, say, Herbalist (to actually stay relevant with her newfound tankiness to capitalize on her immense hp/mp regen capability) or be a side-support with nuking power as a Sorceror to capitalize on her 8% passive party mag buff. Hmm. I suppose this actually sounds like a usable purpose for Minoriko in BOTH cases- offensive build OR support build. She can upkeep her own high health via regen and her Emergency Recovery ability and Owotoshi Harvesters whilst passively buffing team MAG and using her speediness for many heals to make up for not being alltarget.

HP Boost is STRONGER than other boosts at 0.4 instead of 0.2- I don't know if this increases by +0.4 or still +0.2 on second boost, but if you give her a First Aid Kit, First HP Boost, and 10 HP Gems, she's already matching (slightly beating) Komachi's base HP... and with a good chunk cheaper library levels and actual good MND. It sounds entirely workable to me. First Aid Kits and HP gems are valuable but for her regen and support, sounds fine; you can easily afford to give her that much before even beating the maingame.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 05:34:51 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Kirin no Sora

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  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2016, 06:04:16 PM »
The original text means something like "offensive action", so I'd imagine any attack will work with it. Meiling's Brilliant Light Gem can probably combo with it nicely (and that spell's also appreciating the fact that fighting plus disk bosses no longer feel like trying to bash your head against a titanium wall. Or several titanium walls).

Yeah, that's good. Now it's a steel wall or three that show up as random encounters, if I'm hearing things right about plus disk.  :V

...she wouldn't use Blood Sword, but Minoriko can get 16% hp regen with only her passives (inf. corridor- extra 6% regen that will overheal up to 150% max hp) and is fairly speedy... maybe where she really shines is with tweaking up her max HP. Her other corridor skill combines both her support skills into one (using one casts lv1 of the other; aka Owotoshi Harvester becomes a 70% delay power heal with 57% def/mnd buff), and then she can sub for either more support as, say, Herbalist (to actually stay relevant with her newfound tankiness to capitalize on her immense hp/mp regen capability) or be a side-support with nuking power as a Sorceror to capitalize on her 8% passive party mag buff. Hmm. I suppose this actually sounds like a usable purpose for Minoriko in BOTH cases- offensive build OR support build. She can upkeep her own high health via regen and her Emergency Recovery ability and Owotoshi Harvesters whilst passively buffing team MAG and using her speediness for many heals to make up for not being alltarget.

HP Boost is STRONGER than other boosts at 0.4 instead of 0.2- I don't know if this increases by +0.4 or still +0.2 on second boost, but if you give her a First Aid Kit, First HP Boost, and 10 HP Gems, she's already matching (slightly beating) Komachi's base HP... and with a good chunk cheaper library levels and actual good MND. It sounds entirely workable to me. First Aid Kits and HP gems are valuable but for her regen and support, sounds fine; you can easily afford to give her that much before even beating the maingame.

Don't forget about Enhancer's passives, Serela. Since the infinite corridor skill makes Owotoshi Harvester buff and a heal, Enhancer's passives would boost the DEF/MND buff to either 89% or 97%(this is presuming that the buff is boosted to max level, because why wouldn't you?), depending on if the 20% DEF/MND passive buff from a heal is counted before Enhanced Buffing applies or after. Either way, that's a crazy good buff to have, and Mino gets a percent based and MAG based heal together done at the same time as the buff. All that for 70% post use gauge and 4 MP.

I think I know why she only gets those two passives in infinite corridor: it's all that she really needs.
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2016, 06:50:18 PM »
At first I thought the regen passive was cruddy because her max hp was low, but now I see it really is what she needed; you just have to be willing to spend for her max HP and she really starts getting somewhere.

I didn't forget about Enhancer, but it really isn't worth it, I think. You'll already have a whole lot of buffing power in your party, and if you sub Enhancer, than Owotoshi Harvester is pretty much the ONLY thing Minoriko can do; that's a bit of a waste of her incredible MP flow she's got going on, and her heal is strong enough already for people not named Komachi, nor does she need the power for herself when she has Emergency Recovery. Nah, what Minoriko needs is a subclass with useful support skills like Herbalist, or -maybe- Magician (although I'd disagree there). Herbalist Minoriko is amusingly fitting, but yes; it'd let her spam Placebo to upkeep Renko/Byakuren/Keine buffs (Atk/Spd are important too after all!) and Herb of Awakening for damage support when she isn't healing. Placebo's even still 70% delay for speeding along that mag buff and hp regen.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Kirin no Sora

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  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2016, 09:09:34 PM »
I was thinking more about the incredibly high DEF/MND buff than the heal, since only Tenshi has a better DEF/MND buff, and Tenshi's is a self buff with a crapload of issues compared to Mino's. Just having the ability to buff anyone to almost that level of defense and mind is kinda nuts.

Still, I can easily see why you would see it as a waste, as MP flow like that would be able to pay for any MP cost from the subclass spells, and her speed is just enough to make full use of them, too.

On a related note, I had been curious as to why the Enhancer and Hexer subclasses do not have a spell that buffs/debuffs speed. Would that by itself make them OP or something?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2016, 09:32:27 PM »
Mamizou spell numbers. These are only base values; I didn't test for the boost the last two spells get for fulfilling conditions.

Scrolls of Frolicking Animals 165-66
Futatsuiwa Clan's Curse 268.96-82
Mamizou Danmaku in Ten Transformations 205.2-76
Full Moon Pompokolin 256-80

Double post: 21F has encounters now. You can't use M to get them quickly, but they're there. They're labelled as around level 190-210ish so they aren't that special, but they do have a new battle theme not played anywhere else!

Triple post: Well, that's the plus disk trial done for me. I still haven't fought that level 188 icon on B3F yet but otherwise I don't think anything is left in there. Too bad there's no endless corridor yet.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 02:53:23 AM by RegalStar »

Shadowlupus

  • Crimson Blade Hidden Amidst the Darkness
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2016, 05:03:55 AM »
In the latest trial version (D), you can press M on 21F once you beat the main boss on B4F but you can't go too far. Otherwise, the trial will end immediately.

Other than that, there are 3 more shadow bosses you can fight, 1 main boss and 2 characters to recruit.

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2016, 05:15:26 AM »
There's an even more recent version (D') which supposedly fixes the problem of 21F not working correctly after you beat the B4F boss.
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Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2016, 01:50:05 PM »
Theoretically the infinite corridor IS supposed to be in this trial version, though? Maybe we misread something because google translate, but... yeah, try checking out 21f (assuming you've done b4f)
I was thinking more about the incredibly high DEF/MND buff than the heal, since only Tenshi has a better DEF/MND buff, and Tenshi's is a self buff with a crapload of issues compared to Mino's. Just having the ability to buff anyone to almost that level of defense and mind is kinda nuts.

Still, I can easily see why you would see it as a waste, as MP flow like that would be able to pay for any MP cost from the subclass spells, and her speed is just enough to make full use of them, too.

On a related note, I had been curious as to why the Enhancer and Hexer subclasses do not have a spell that buffs/debuffs speed. Would that by itself make them OP or something?
I did account for that in saying the party already has a lot of buffing power- granted that was only a glancing mention. But yeah, between people like Byakuren/Renko/Keine/Reimu/etc, for mooost of the battle apart from the very start your party should be in a state of decaying buffs, not unbuffed. 57% should easily be enough to either max it out or get them close enough it doesn't matter. Now, 89~97% buffs IS somewhat exciting for people just being switched in, but in the end, it really isn't special enough due to Minoriko's lack of other innate support (and the fact that you still need them buffed by the others for speed and/or offense anyway). Infinitely casting herbalist skills with only a rare need to concentrate is special; Desire to Rest and Rapid Charge will have her almost never needing to use a turn recouping, and Placebo lets her viably take the place of the other buffers in the front row for awhile.

On speed, it wouldn't make them OP at all imo (almost all bosses heavily resist speed debuffs before long, anyway), but speed does tend to be the more special one of the lot. In LoT1 a lot of buff/debuffs that covered "all" didn't do speed, but in LoT2 that was changed to where almost all of them do.

Mmm, only tangentially related, but Tenshi really doesn't seem that special of a tank in this game... her support passives are Keystone Formation and phys damage reduction, and whilst phys damage down is one of the better damage reduction passives,  she's soooo slow when it comes to Keystone or subclass support, her only innate support skill is a self-only def/mnd buff (GRANTED, removing buffs is really useful on -some- bosses; it's just useless on most others...) and her defenses REALLY aren't much higher than anyone else's in this game, along with being forced to invest into her max hp. Level rate/library isn't notably good to help with either of those. Plus her corridor skills are mostly only good in randoms. Hooray, starts the battle with a def/mnd buff...?

She's a great bulky attacker if you use her with Iku, though, as her move formulas are actually pretty great (Plus Iku is awesome and would like her own huge def/mnd buff with tenshi out) and with base stat tweaks in Plus Disk she can actually really get somewhere with that. +40% base attack with Iku out becomes even more special when you've tweaked the base up; it's like having a 40% more powerful Attack Boost skill, attack gems etc. Granted, she needs that extra oomph to continue to be genuinely worth a party slot.

I mean, Tenshi works enough as a tank, but a lot of people are arguably tankier than Tenshi is, whilst bringing more useful support options to the table. In LoT2 before long you're choosing tanks more for their passives/skills than their stats and she hardly even wins out in stats to start with. When I've got Renko/Byakuren/Hina/Rinnosuke(switch power!! keine after corridor) as tanks with awesome support prowess that I NEED to have them out for regularly, and 3 of those are nearly-as or more tanky than Tenshi, well... Tenshi would hardly ever be out even if she was in the party :V This is also why Momiji tank loses despite having amazing stats and some alright passives, but she's also a super solid bulky attacker once you sub her for more attack moves.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 01:52:38 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2016, 02:34:47 PM »
If the plus disk bosses I've fought are any indication, bosses buffing up is going to be the new meta. Five out of ten battles feature at least one boss buffing either themselves or their entire team, with at least three of them capable of getting close to +100%, and not all of them are very vulerable to getting debuffed down either. Sword of Hisou would be really helpful on those kind of battles.

And 21F ends as soon as you walk into the new hallway. Maybe if I can figure out how to edit the dungeon floor files I can walk around it and see what's on the rest of the floor, but I'm not really sure how. Someone mentioned before editing a text file in a data folder or something, but I don't know where it is.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2016, 02:42:01 PM »
Oh.

Well, that's a little different then. O: I somewhat suspected that when I saw the Oracle/Prophet class... I mean, why have a class that's absolutely useless against anything but bosses who buff themselves?

This is very good news for Maribel, on the other hand. (She laughs at your 0% attack/defense stats with the 100% buff!) And even more encouragement for bulky attacker Tenshi! This also makes Eyes That See Reality more relevant... Momiji, Satori, and Nazrin. I'm mildly surprised Shikieiki doesn't have such a skill, but it's not like she doesn't have many other useful things and already ignores def.

edit:Sealing Club's ineffectiveness was added to the Plus Disk trial bug list. As well, I learned that in the trial version, you can use A/S on level bonus allocation to move by 10 and 100 points, which is incredibly handy as the numbers soar higher and higher.

(If you can't tell, one of my favorite things about these games is strategy discussion and character builds/party theorycrafting. In this game it's SO hard to just pick 12 people!)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 02:58:13 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2016, 05:13:42 PM »
I used cheat engine to hack myself onto the rest of 21F. The stairway to 22F crashes the game if used, and otherwise there don't seem to be anything interesting there, just a big floor with lots of wind tiles (which work like EO lily pads except you get blown across the room instead of ferried across). Enemies seem to give a LOT of rewards though; even more so than the basement. Oh and Appraiser's proof is on 21F so now I have that subclass too; not that I really plan on using it (unless I need to go in major farm mode)

Also, there's a big hole on B4F behind Futo. In terms of plot it ejects a lot of malicious spirit that was used by Futo to heal herself (which is why she has to be fought twice), and on the map there's an exclamation mark on it, but it's non-interactive as of yet. Maybe that's supposed to be the entrance to endless corridor?

And to answer something from a few posts back; HP second boost and HP mega boost all adds 0.4 to their previous boost skill, so mega boost is 1.2.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 06:02:59 PM by RegalStar »

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2016, 05:29:40 PM »
So HP Second Boost is +4 base hp. That's pretty sweet- it goes a long way to making lower-hp characters much more survivable. Renko gets 12% hp regen with Maribel out, too, and can easily maintennance up decent def/mnd and high affinities even with hp gear... *Drools* It's tempting to sub her something other than Enhancer so she can have more to do, but Charge is pretty painful without it on. Hmm. It has 0 delay on it, so I guess I don't want to use it if I want to leave Renko out a -lot-, anyway... my team currently has no Herbalist so I suppose that could work? (I was thinking of giving it to Keine, but as she'll be swapping a lot and trying to get history accumulation up, I'll likely give her a more passive class like strategist)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 05:31:57 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2016, 06:22:32 PM »


Well the answer was right before my nose. On the screenshot section of the main website, the one with the endless corridor menu says "Entering the big hole in B4F", so I'm pretty sure that the big hole on B4F is the entrance. That it's non-interactive now means that yeah, endless corridor can't be entered on the trial yet. Oh well, at least I can get to it immediately after the real thing comes out (assuming I can use my trial save data (and I better can; otherwise I'd have wasted 61 hours for nothing)).

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2016, 06:25:33 PM »
Well, that's that, then.

I would imagine the trial save data should work fine, yeah. There certainly wasn't any mention of it not in the data; just that it won't be compatible with non-plus anymore.

edit:Rechecked Tenshi's infinite corridor skills- I mostly only remembered More Enduring Celestial, but she also gets an hp increase (direly needed) and a passive def/mnd 8% buff each time she's hit, which is a fairly nice thing. That's a little better than I recall. Whilst she's still boring as a tank off those merits, if self-buffing bosses are an epidemic in postgame, that makes a massive difference in her usefulness- there's no way to deny how useful she'd be as either a tank or offensively against those. Iku's also got some pretty great plus disk buffs ensuring she continues to be a wonderful character, further encouraging Tenshi use for synergy...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 08:00:23 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore