Topic: Another "Now that you think about it" thread  (Read 2149 times)

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andykhang

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Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« on: October 14, 2016, 04:24:26 pm »
Aside from fighting game, I never see Reimu fly around without that Yin Yang Balls around her. Did I forget a scene? If not, does that mean she only used it in battle mode, or she can only float with it? (Even though Fantasy Nature is her innate one)

Cus that kinda implied a few thing:

1. That you could still connect PC-98 with Window Reimu, since they're all relied on the Yin Yang Ball as a source of power.

2. If hidden within the balls is the power of the Hakurei God, it's fcking strong itself to be able to FN any opponent (and blow up a planet, counting PC-98), while still in a weakened state. That, once again, put a lot of question into the identity of this god and the Yin Yang Ball itself: What kind of rank do we talking, who made this, and how the Hakurei God came to it current state?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 10:31:45 am by andykhang »

Tengukami

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2016, 04:27:02 pm »
Sorry, did you mean to post this in Miscellaneous Questions instead?

If not, can you clarify a little in your OP what kinda thread you're going for here?

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andykhang

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2016, 04:28:42 pm »
Guess so? I also kinda want to make it a theory thread though.

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2016, 05:06:44 pm »
Ah, interesting! Then by all means, write up your theory in the OP.

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MANoBadAssGar Jr.

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2016, 05:18:52 am »
In Sunny gang manga, she fly even if no balls, though that one manga can be off i think............
but she probably have them under her clothes at the time, not like they have to be activated like spherical robot funnel bit ?

wanted to make balls joke, but doesnt work

Helepolis

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2016, 08:56:03 am »
Aside from fighting game, I never see Reimu fly around without that Yin Yang Balls around her. Did I forget a scene? If not, does that mean she only used it in battle mode, or she can only float with it? (Even though Fantasy Nature is her innate one)
In IN she flies withour her balls.

Edit:
In PoDD neither. PoFV same deal.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 09:06:25 am by Helepolis »

Clarste

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 03:53:56 pm »
The ying yang balls have always just represented how much power the player currently has. Other characters have the same things with different symbols.

andykhang

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 04:05:59 pm »
In IN she flies withour her balls.

Edit:
In PoDD neither. PoFV same deal.

In IN and PoFV she does use it for her spell card, PoDD is PC-98 so it doesn't really fall into the current canon.

Tengukami

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 04:12:02 pm »
Well, they're still visual representations meant for the player; not props the character has. Like, I doubt a large white dot appears in the middle of a girl's stomach when she's trying to dodge with precision. Although that would be pretty hilarious.

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andykhang

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 04:14:09 pm »
The ying yang balls have always just represented how much power the player currently has. Other characters have the same things with different symbols.

It's also a plot device used for many occasion in canon. Though, like a curvy lamb, missing it right now doesn't really change the plot. In lore wise though, that's her most powerful weapon aside from Fantasy Heaven, and is the heritical object passed down from many generation (?) of the Hakurei Shrine Maiden, and channel the power of the Hakurei God in it.

nav'

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 04:46:45 pm »
Well, they're still visual representations meant for the player; not props the character has.
But can't they be both? The white dot is obviously completely abstract, but power indicators like Reimu's orbs or Alice's dolls are something the characters can actually be bringing along.
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уж лучше бы о он жил!

Helepolis

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2016, 04:57:39 pm »
In IN and PoFV she does use it for her spell card, PoDD is PC-98 so it doesn't really fall into the current canon.
That wasn't your question though. You asked whether she flies around without her yin yang balls outside of the fighting games. And I've shown/said she does.

It is also pretty much as Clarste mentioned. The heroines use familiar-type to launch projectiles in the games. In IN and PoFV, many of the girls lack this graphical appearance. Alice uses Shanghai. Marisa used Alice dolls in SA. Etc etc etc.

There isn't much behind it if you think about it. It is pure ZUN's choice for game mechanics.

PK

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2016, 06:22:42 pm »
But can't they be both? The white dot is obviously completely abstract, but power indicators like Reimu's orbs or Alice's dolls are something the characters can actually be bringing along.
I doubt Marisa has more than one hakkero, despite more than one being near her, that Sakuya's knives come out of poker cards, or that Reisen has various eyes following her around.

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2016, 07:30:33 pm »
But can't they be both?

Sure, but without evidence supporting this it just isn't.

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nav'

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2016, 07:44:32 pm »
Sure, but without evidence supporting this it just isn't.
All right, here's something. In Subterranean Animism, Yukari explicitly informs Reimu she's using the yin-yang orbs for long range communication. Likewise, Marisa and Alice discuss the dolls several times throughout the game, mentioning their fuction as communication devices and sources of firepower. The dialogue implies both Reimu's orbs and Alice's dolls are physically there, while at the same time serving as power indicators for the player. No idea whether any of this applies to other games, though.
Рабинович глядит на плакат Ленин умер, но дело его живет!
уж лучше бы о он жил!

Tengukami

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2016, 08:06:11 pm »
And in that game the orbs played a part in Reimu's scenario. This does not mean she is literally walking around with yin-yang orbs zipping in circles around her, as a couple people now have pointed out.

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nav'

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2016, 08:28:21 pm »
And in that game the orbs played a part in Reimu's scenario. This does not mean she is literally walking around with yin-yang orbs zipping in circles around her, as a couple people now have pointed out.
Well, sure, I suppose she could be carrying the orbs in her pocket, or inside her ears, glued to the earwax, and the graphical depiction of Reimu with her orbs floating around her is meant to mislead the player.

Honestly, I don't see many other options.  The SA dialogue tells us the orbs are physically there. Reimu uses the orbs in combat. I would expect her to keep her magical flying orbs ready when flying straight into a fight. It's either that, or they're in her pocket, bunched up with some spare change.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 09:16:07 pm by nav' »
Рабинович глядит на плакат Ленин умер, но дело его живет!
уж лучше бы о он жил!

Tengukami

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2016, 09:55:57 pm »
Well, sure, I suppose she could be carrying the orbs in her pocket, or inside her ears, glued to the earwax, and the graphical depiction of Reimu with her orbs floating around her is meant to mislead the player.

And this is why I loathe most "headcanon" threads.

This has gone beyond ridiculous.

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2016, 10:17:53 pm »
Problem with headcanon threads is that people refuse to accept the sources being presented and drag it on thinking there always has to be something beyond. Usually because of their own belief.

nav'

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2016, 10:26:14 pm »
I quoted actual game dialogue directly stating Reimu has the orbs with her during the events of SA. How does that count as "headcanon"?
Рабинович глядит на плакат Ленин умер, но дело его живет!
уж лучше бы о он жил!

Helepolis

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2016, 10:31:18 pm »
Yukari also modified Alice' dolls to achieve the same thing. I personally fail to understand what point is trying to be made here by anyone.

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2016, 10:39:53 pm »
I quoted actual game dialogue directly stating Reimu has the orbs with her during the events of SA. How does that count as "headcanon"

Literally no one refuted that this was a thing that happened in SA. In fact I said as much. What I refute is that this is shattering evidence that she has the orbs with her at all times, as it has already been demonstrated that this is not so. That is headcanon.

The remarks about hiding them in her ears or pockets was so ridiculous that I don't even know what the point of it was. I get tired of chasing after moving goalposts whenever Touhou theory is discussed.

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Helepolis

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2016, 10:45:33 pm »
I could swear that the opening post didn't contain anything about PC-98 or Hakurei God. andykhang is just jumping randomness here.

And it confuses me why he brings up PC-98 suddenly in the edited opening post. Thought he just claimed personally that PC-98 is not canon.

nav'

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2016, 10:48:46 pm »
I personally fail to understand what point is trying to be made here by anyone.
Tengukami argued the orbs are solely a visual representation of Reimu's current power. I suggested they might also represent actual entities. Tengukami asked me for evidence supporting that. I quoted SA dialogue stating that the orbs are physically there and in Reimu's possesion at the time. That's it. That's the entire point.

What I refute is that this is shattering evidence that she has the orbs with her at all times
That was never my argument in the first place. Perhaps you are confusing me with the OP. I possess shattering evidence that I am not him.
Рабинович глядит на плакат Ленин умер, но дело его живет!
уж лучше бы о он жил!

andykhang

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2016, 08:34:52 am »
...oookay this have gone off the rail badly.

The reason is that I thought it would put something in common with all the generation of Hakurei Shrine Maiden... Not like it's importance in my point, though it does let in the way to make an illusion of an Eternal Shrine Maiden.

LunarWingCloud

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Re: Another "Now that you think about it" thread
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2016, 06:46:50 pm »
Reimu's orbs are just her familiars in a sense. She's perfectly capable without them.

Well, maybe not in gameplay because she tends to have much weaker shots but you knowwww :V
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