Captain America 3: Superhero Slap Fight

[commandercool]

It's really good. My criticisms are minimal. Turns out this plot can be really effective when we, you know, give a shit about the characters. I can't help but feel like there was a superfluous plotline in there somewhere, but I couldn't really point to what it is.

Here's my challenge that has yet to be solved: Can anyone think of a single thing, no matter how small, that Superman Vs. Batman did better than Civil War? There have to be things, but I can't think of any and neither could anyone else I've talked to so far.

[Monarda]

It sucked more than Civil War, wouldn't that count ?

But sincerely, i have no idea, from what i could see and hear, DC movies always slipped up (although i do like the animations.).

[commandercool]

I think the exception that proves that rule is Batman Begins, which to date is still probably my favorite single comic book movie, but mostly yeah.

Marvel Studios is better at making movies than Warner Brothers is, and they're better at making Marvel stories than Marvel is. Remember Civil War in comics? The Civil War comic was pretty poor. An adaptation this successful of such weak material is a real kick in the pants to the Marvel comics staff.

[Mеа]

The Civil War comic was pretty poor. An adaptation this successful of such weak material is a real kick in the pants to the Marvel comics staff.

Was it? Maybe its my bias since it was the first comic I've read, out of the very few, that a friend suggested and let me borrow, but I liked it. I do remember him saying that people thought it was rather weak, what's your reasoning?
If it's that much better than I might take up the invite to go see it tomorrow.

[commandercool]

I've actually talked to quite a few people who got into comics through Civil War and like it just fine, but it is widely disliked, or at least not loved, by comics people. I don't find it to be a very complete story since it existed primarily as an editorial springboard, and most of the stuff it springboarded into just kind of fizzled out after a while and left no lasting impact on Marvel. It's very little actual content for a ton of bluster, and it was part of the noxious crossover fad that made me stop buying comics for the most part.

If you were reading Marvel at the time every single book you read got put on hold for an editorially mandated Civil War crossover book, forcing writers to cut short or alter ongoing arcs to accomodate. And none of those crossovers meant anything unless you so read half a dozen other tie-in books. That in and of itself was bad, but Civil War was such a relative financial success that Marvel started doing that absolutely all of the time until half of the books in every ongoing series became event tie-ins.

So maybe some of the ill will I have toward Civil War is reay thanks to that industry trend more than the book itself, but either way it taught Marvel the lesson that mediocrity sold way better than quality storytelling if they yelled loud enough about it and did enough heavily-publicized stunt deaths.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Gonna be seeing this with my dad and brother this weekend. I actually sat down and watched the first two Cap films this week just to know what's going on.  Looking forward to it.

[Your Everyday NEET]

Okay, I've been searching for what Superman Vs. Batman did better than Civil War. I can't find it. I'm sorry Batman v Superman, but Civil War has better motivation for the heroes to fight each other, Civil War has better superhero fight that combines awesome fight scene, witty dialogue, and humor, and most of all, Big Bad with better motivation other than "I'm evil and I want them to fight each other". On top of that, Civil War has a stinger... That's it! What Batman v Superman did better is it doesn't have any stinger so that we can go home after the credits roll.

My only criticism is Ross is a dick! And that woman in the first Tony scene is a dick! Sure she has a reason to be very mad at Tony, but still a dick.

[Patorikku]

Got to see this on release night, and there was a general consensus among the group I saw it with that Black Panther seriously carried that movie. Or, more accurately, while none of the other heroes were bad or mediocre, per se, Black Panther was just a stand-out member of the cast that had AMAZING moments in the fight scenes, (seriously, dat triple kick was gold) and now I'm really looking forward to his own movie. The action itself was fairly superb, which is good, since that was the core reason I was there, as I am not at all caught up on the Marvel movies. I think every member of the cast also had their own humour style, too, unlike one of the big critiques I remember hearing and having for the first Avengers movie where everyone else was kind of just quipping like Tony. I can't really note anything I didn't like right off the bat, other than the obviously forced and very swiftly dropped (thank god) romance between Cap and Peggy's niece, and I definitely felt the Secretary of State was a dick consistently throughout the movie.

Also I do have to note that given how much destruction typically happens in these movies, it's actually kind of refreshing to have a movie that actually discusses the collateral damage rather than just leaving it at "city's in ruins, but the death toll wasn't absolutely horrible and we're not all enslaved so uh HEY victory for us!"

[commandercool]

Age Of Ultron spends a lot of time addressing collateral damage as well, which is one of the reasons I like that movie so much. That one and this one both read like measured responses to Man of Steel to me, and I appreciate that.

[Mеа]

Because of the glowing response I decided to go watch it after all. I have to say, though I didn't think the comic was bad this movie is much more superior. Then again it's not an adaptation at all really since they've changed it so much. I didn't like captain america in the original because I felt they didn't explain his motivations much other than his unwillingness to have to submit to bureaucratic nonsenses, but the movie did a really good job of showing how both Tony and Steve had equally valid standpoints along with why they decided to stand on it. And they took turns 'being right'. In the original I especially didn't like captain america because I felt that by the end he had lost sight of his original goal as a superhero (which I assume was to protect the people or something).
The ending fight between tony and steve was done really nicely in the movie, it was brutal, bloody, close, and personal.

Spoiler:

I especially like the way they handled the captain's final blow. It almost seemed like he was going to go for the face again only to go for the arc reactor instead. It was a great way of having a PG 'kill scene' while still retaining all the emotional torque of showing a friend killing another friend. I would even go as far as to say it was more powerful than if steve had just smashed his face in, because the intent was clear while tony was still able to see steve's anguish at his actions and overall circumstances.

I felt like there were a LOT more laugh points in this movie than the other recent marvel movies I've seen (thor 1,2, avengers 1). I've never felt that they detracted from the appeal of the movies but I'm worried that the number of them may stand out to those who can't stand it as well. There were a few really good ones (the scene of the two in the car nodding after the kiss) as well as a few not so necessary ones (the scene of the two on the floor with webs saying I hate you, bird costume, tony with his hand webbed to the door handle).
I remember watching Enders Game and not being able to help but noticing how many black people were in the movie. Either I've gotten used to the 'racial diversification' of casts, or they handled it very naturally and well, or perhaps the adaptation of Enders Game was really shocking to me because of how different it was from the book (why was Dap and Anderson black, and the latter a woman?). Or maybe it was because of how well they were able to show the multinational effects of the Avengers, that was pretty cool.
And speaking of the Avengers, I just so happened to read one of the fantastic four comics that was lying around on the couch and realized how weird of a name the avengers is for a super hero group (Mr. fantastic commented on how the original group name suggested by the human torch, 'the fearsome four' or something, was bad for PR). Who are they avenging? Anyone know where that came from?

[Romantique Tp]

There's no deep meaning to the name or anything. It just sounds cool.

[commandercool]

Yup, that has been a persistent source of frustration to comic book fans for years. There's no story behind it, it's just a dumb name.

[monhan]

Well, if there's something from Batman vs Superman that "may" be better, is that it actually tried to do something about the status quo. With the death of Supes and creation of the Justice League and all.

[commandercool]

Yeah, I guess. It's yet to be seen whether anything in either movie sticks, but I seriously doubt Superman will remain dead for more than ninety minutes. I kind of doubt much from Civil War will have a significant impact. It will definitely be addressed again, and I'm sure the heroes needing to unite under one logo again will be a significant plot point in Avengers 3, but I have to assume it'll happen.